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22LR twist rate
- Thread starter Raufoss
- Start date
For you guys who have experimented with faster twist barrels, at what physical distance or wind speeds do you see the gains? Seems to me like bullet design doesn't warrant a faster twist, but the extra spin could not hurt.
I have been shooting 3-500 yards with a 22LR for 7 yrs. I have never tried to overthink this, just learned cold temps and wind is not your buddy. My Bergara B14R shoots CCI SV lights out to 300 on non windy days, wind comes up, a switch to SK Standard Plus ammo and I can stay in the game somewhat.
My Rim X with a Proof carbon, 16tw really only likes Center X, I just haven't had the time to try more expensive ammo to see if it makes a difference.
I did some shooting at 250 & 300 yards last Thursday that I didn't really think was possible, way calm day. Went out Sat in 6-10mph winds and things changed dramatically.
I have been shooting 3-500 yards with a 22LR for 7 yrs. I have never tried to overthink this, just learned cold temps and wind is not your buddy. My Bergara B14R shoots CCI SV lights out to 300 on non windy days, wind comes up, a switch to SK Standard Plus ammo and I can stay in the game somewhat.
My Rim X with a Proof carbon, 16tw really only likes Center X, I just haven't had the time to try more expensive ammo to see if it makes a difference.
I did some shooting at 250 & 300 yards last Thursday that I didn't really think was possible, way calm day. Went out Sat in 6-10mph winds and things changed dramatically.
22LR twist rate
PVA is offering a 12 twist barrel for Rim X actions. Anybody try one of these yet? I have one but havent been able to really test it yet. Ammo shortage and weather has made it difficult.
www.snipershide.com
ANY updates mister??
I may have a Rimfire ELR match in the spring. I will let you know.
DT
International Barrels is doing 12T. And they do it for almost all platforms (RimX, Deuce, Bergara, CZ, Tikka)
Swan also only list a 1:16T for 22lr,
Might have to drop in & ask them if they would do a 1:9T.
Has anyone had the barrel off a Howa M1100 yet ??
Actually there is some research saying the optimal length for 12t is 27". I personally don't want that but 24-26" would be awesome.
Edit: post #225 is an example, but if you read through some people data it shows true.
Yes they do a 9t, I got the first one, running it as a prototype for them. They are now selling them.
The 1100 is a pressed and pinned barrel. 2 on the underside.
Thankyou,
Have you pulled/pressed a M1100 barrel out yet ?
May have to grab a barrel from them to give it a try,
Don't really want to press a barrel out of an almost new rifle.
Have been thinking about converting a Howa mini or even a short action to rimfire for a while.(almost started on one while waiting for the M1100)
Might just pickup a CZ 455/457, as they are easy to change barrels on.
I was just on their drop in page and the T1X only had the 1:16 barrels. Where did you see the faster twist?
Mike
Not pulled a Howa 1100 barrel, but can confirm they use a 1500 trigger, which is nice. I have the receiver drawn up to make pic rails for them now.
Cz457 are great, solid rifles. I prefer the 452 over the 455, mainly for the threaded barrel vs pinned.
Not as planned. Took the gun out- MDT Chassis, stock trigger (which doesn’t seem that bad) and the Lilja barrel. 20MOA rail and the ERTAC mount. We didn’t get the groupings that we were looking for, and the gun started to have extraction problems. Tried some SK and Center-X ammo. It wasn’t horrible, it just wasn’t the tack driver I was hoping. The Boy has been busy with school stuff on the weekends, cat’s in the cradle, and we haven’t gotten back out.
I need to get over to Aurora and try some chassis torque, and mayb reshim the barrel a thousand longer to see the effect on accuracy and extraction.
Then I started reading all about the issues with threaded barrels being sub optimal and actually wondered if the threading or the cap might have been part of the issue- mainly that I didn’t torque the thread protector enough. Started wondering if a barrel harmonizer might be interesting to play with. Mainly need to just get back to the range and play with the simple variables.
This is my first barrel that I haven’t put a device on the end of and just used a threaded cap. IF I’m not looking to add anything to it soon (Can or harmonizer) what’s the protocol to lock it in place? A little thread locker and what kind of torque?
The Boy is taking flight classes and we have missed all kinds of comps because of it. You think CRC would let us land a Cub out there To get to a match?
With as bad as the roads are wash boarded, out at CRC, you might land, not sure if the landing gear itself would survive. Almost shook the walls off my RV a few weeks ago.
You could head over to Golden Gun Club. They’re a lot closer and get you yardage out to 550. Could setup a time to meet up if you’d like. I’ve been working on my RimX out to 385 fairly often.
You could head over to Golden Gun Club. They’re a lot closer and get you yardage out to 550. Could setup a time to meet up if you’d like. I’ve been working on my RimX out to 385 fairly often.
Just keeping tabs on post i want to try a faster twist very sokn between 1/9 and 1/12 for nrlx matches
Are you planning on using that for BR or PRS?
I have one on my RimX and for PRS I think its too tight. I have fiddled with my mags to no end and still have occasional extraction/feeding issue.
PRS, my kid has it in his rimx and one of his friends has the same. No probs what so ever.
Mike
Mike
From May 23, 2021
From Sept. 27, 2021
Has there been any chronograph data from the testing referred to published comparing standard and fast twist barrels?
Has there been any reliable target data such as target results published in this forum or anywhere else comparing standard and fast twist barrels?
From Sept. 27, 2021
Has there been any chronograph data from the testing referred to published comparing standard and fast twist barrels?
Has there been any reliable target data such as target results published in this forum or anywhere else comparing standard and fast twist barrels?
I was unable to find actual data from their testing.
In my personal testing my 1-12 appears to be getting slightly better BC then with my 1-16. I say appears as I am still collecting data with a broad selection on ammo. Some bullets dont improve BC.
For long range go 1-12 groups hold up better at long range.
We found the radar show no increase in bc with the increased twist rate. At least not in any statistically significant manner.
That’s not to say that I haven’t observed better groups the farther out they’re shot. Doesn’t make sense but seems to hold true in my testing.
That’s not to say that I haven’t observed better groups the farther out they’re shot. Doesn’t make sense but seems to hold true in my testing.
I wonder if part of the reason I'm appearing to have better BC has to do with increased stability reducing BC decay? I dont know what distance you tested at but I see it at 2-300 plus. Of course I dont have access to dopler so....
Or it could even be that the vertical spread is messing with data because the slow starting velocity doesnt always hit lowest etc.
Like said I'm still wondering and working on this because I'm not prepared to believe that mathematically 1-16 to 1-12 would increase the BC.
Or it could even be that the vertical spread is messing with data because the slow starting velocity doesnt always hit lowest etc.
Like said I'm still wondering and working on this because I'm not prepared to believe that mathematically 1-16 to 1-12 would increase the BC.
I am one of the people testing a 25” 10tw barrel on a vudoo.
To preface, I am not a “rimfire” guy and have no plans on becoming one. I use the vudoo as a trainer for my centerfire matches, however when I shoot a rimfire match I am disappointed if I do not podium it. I have posted my targets transparently on the 6x5 thread and on this thread, it’s up to you if you want to call it “data” or “reliable” but it is there.
My honest opinion is that I do not know if it helps at 200+ yards, but I certainly do not think it is hurting anything.
Fundamentals first, minutia later.
I have 2 rifles, Vudoo 360 with 16T and a Ultimatum Deuce with 12T. I have 5 lots of Center-X that I tested between the rifles and this is with the best lots for each... the 360 is running a 24xx and the Deuce is running a 26xx lot.
At 50y, they performed pretty similarly. Vudoo 16T yellow, Deuce 12T green
103y:
I'll make a separate post on the 200y, as it's more pics as I took a pic of each group separately.
At 50y, they performed pretty similarly. Vudoo 16T yellow, Deuce 12T green
103y:
I'll make a separate post on the 200y, as it's more pics as I took a pic of each group separately.
Summary, they shoot pretty equal. 12T is showing slightly higher BC where I'm .1mil high at 200y compared to the Kestrel whereas the Vudoo is spot on with the Kestrel.
200y:
Deuce:
Extreme spread rounds, but a pretty crazy clump in the center.
Vudoo 16T
200y:
Deuce:
Extreme spread rounds, but a pretty crazy clump in the center.
Vudoo 16T
I've been shooting a 9t, 22" and SK standard plus (yellow box) and it groups at 385m better than anything I've tried to date. Also shoots the yellow better than the SK rifle match red box.
Calfee2 reamer from Manson.
Calfee2 reamer from Manson.
On October 23 I asked a couple of questions.
With regard to the second question, a few replies give anecdotal or limited information in the form of a small number of targets.
The accuracy performance of standard and fast twist barrels can best be compared up to 100 yards or meters by testing in a test tunnel such as at the Lapua facilities where suitable ammo for each can be used, there is no wind, and, because the rifle/barreled action is in a fixture, the shooter is removed from the equation. Of course, while that may not be conveniently available, short of that it's still possible to make a reasonable and doable comparison.
The easiest and simplest way might be to shoot rifles with standard and fast twist barrels with suitable ammo at 100 yards under similarly calm conditions. A distance of 100 yards is one at which the vagaries of outdoor shooting can be much less than at further distances. It's possible to compare apples to apples if there is very little to no wind detected.
If enough groups are shot with each rifle to make a comparison begin to be statistically sound, it should be possible to determine if in fact one produces better results at 100 than the other. While it's possible to make reasonable comparisons at 200 yards, the opportunities for starting at 100 must be more frequent for many shooters.
For those who say that 100 yards is irrelevant to the purpose of shooting at two, three, even four times the distance, it should nevertheless be a good starting point to know what difference there may be, if any, at 100 yards.
There were a few replies with regard to the first question that suggest the information to date is either incomplete or inconclusive. Apparently results sanctioned by manufacturers of both standard and fast twist barrels continue to remain unavailable.
With regard to the second question, a few replies give anecdotal or limited information in the form of a small number of targets.
The accuracy performance of standard and fast twist barrels can best be compared up to 100 yards or meters by testing in a test tunnel such as at the Lapua facilities where suitable ammo for each can be used, there is no wind, and, because the rifle/barreled action is in a fixture, the shooter is removed from the equation. Of course, while that may not be conveniently available, short of that it's still possible to make a reasonable and doable comparison.
The easiest and simplest way might be to shoot rifles with standard and fast twist barrels with suitable ammo at 100 yards under similarly calm conditions. A distance of 100 yards is one at which the vagaries of outdoor shooting can be much less than at further distances. It's possible to compare apples to apples if there is very little to no wind detected.
If enough groups are shot with each rifle to make a comparison begin to be statistically sound, it should be possible to determine if in fact one produces better results at 100 than the other. While it's possible to make reasonable comparisons at 200 yards, the opportunities for starting at 100 must be more frequent for many shooters.
For those who say that 100 yards is irrelevant to the purpose of shooting at two, three, even four times the distance, it should nevertheless be a good starting point to know what difference there may be, if any, at 100 yards.
They sell barrels everyday. Get one and find out
There is no difference at 100 yards. Very little at 200. 300 significant difference.
My observations lead me to believe the increased stability helps reduce fliers high and low. The MOA degradation from each hundred yard line as you go out with 1-12 is smaller.
Also my observations have been that cheap ammo shoots worse in the 1-12 at 50 and 100 yards but at 200 it will be the same as a 1-16. At 300 it will be better then 1-16.
Possibly because the increased spin exaggerates the imperfections in the bullets at 100?
It's surprising that this effortless response as unhelpful as it seems defensive. It's unfortunate when questions are resented or seen as threatening.
When many shooters on threads like this -- and manufacturers too -- insist that faster twist barrels are better than standard, however, there should be meaningful evidence that can be cited to support the contention. Yet there's little or no empirical evidence that anyone seems willing to share. Readers may do well to wonder why.
Geno has tested this. I've tested this. It works end of story. I've tried sharing some in the past. You argue that my testing procedure will not work because of environmental effects at long range etc. etc.
I intend to do a "report" and share on here this winter with my finding. But if your not going to trust large group sizes at long range go and test for yourself with your own procedures and see what you find.
This is not high school debate. We owe you nothing. If you want any a certain type of data… go right ahead.
Although forums are usually a venue for sharing information, no one here, of course, owes anyone anything. It's unfortunate, however, when a question results in such an inhospitable reaction.
Thank you. This kind of reply is most welcome. I look forward to a report as it should be very useful.
I'm still waiting for @RAVAGE88 to pony up the goods. My Vudoo G2 just showed up, got it mounted up in the chassis and will get it sending fast fun downrange soon. But at some point I'm gonna want that 24" MTU contour to match my regular gun, and I want one o' them fancy 9-twists he's had me jonesing for ever since he teased it
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