Has anyone tried VVn140 in a 25 Creed? I've got 8lbs from my BR and they list 6.5 Creed in the VV load data. My 25 Creed barrel should be here in a couple weeks. So I'm gonna start with that.
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25 Creedmoor Load Development
- Thread starter prwillard2
- Start date
42.2 grains of Reloder 16, MV of 2974, and a G7 of 0.335 gives me first round impacts at 705, 890, 924, and 1020.
5.0 mils to 890, 5.3 to 924, and 6.2 to 1020.
Wind was around 5 mph from 10:00, but gusting around 8 to 9 downrange. Still only needed 1 mil of wind to connect at 1020
Edit: The elevation difference between the 0.335 I used and the 0.340 others have reported is pretty negligible. It might be a few hundredths off in the elevation solution, like 5.31 versus 5.35 at 924 yards.
5.0 mils to 890, 5.3 to 924, and 6.2 to 1020.
Wind was around 5 mph from 10:00, but gusting around 8 to 9 downrange. Still only needed 1 mil of wind to connect at 1020
Edit: The elevation difference between the 0.335 I used and the 0.340 others have reported is pretty negligible. It might be a few hundredths off in the elevation solution, like 5.31 versus 5.35 at 924 yards.
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I'm using a 6.5x47 WFT with my 25x47. Works fine. The difference in caliber is .007 at the end of the day.
I am essentially going to end up around the same area, charge weight and speed wise. I ended up at .345 for BC but as you said, the difference is really negligible inside of 1k yards.
Gents. Having a brain fart this Sunday morn...
I have about 200pcs of once fired 25 Creed Alpha Brass. What should I be using to set the neck tension back?
I’m a little confused here. In the past when I reloaded 6.5 CM, I just used my Forster FL resizer (length and neck). This mandrel process is throwing me off a bit.
As for everything else..
- Redding 6.5 Type S sizer w/.283 bushing (.281 and .283)
- Redding 6.5 Comp Seater w/VLD long seating stem
Apologize if this is totally newbie... 25 CM is not as straight forward for the in-experienced! I just want to shoot this damn thing already lol... just put it together this weekend.
I have about 200pcs of once fired 25 Creed Alpha Brass. What should I be using to set the neck tension back?
I’m a little confused here. In the past when I reloaded 6.5 CM, I just used my Forster FL resizer (length and neck). This mandrel process is throwing me off a bit.
As for everything else..
- Redding 6.5 Type S sizer w/.283 bushing (.281 and .283)
- Redding 6.5 Comp Seater w/VLD long seating stem
Apologize if this is totally newbie... 25 CM is not as straight forward for the in-experienced! I just want to shoot this damn thing already lol... just put it together this weekend.
If I'm understanding your question correctly, and since you mention having a mandrel and neck tension, I find the expander mandrel works perfectly for me. I set my tension at 0.001". Others prefer the turning mandrel 0.002" tension, but I find it raises my SD and ES slightly.
If I measure my once fired brass (total of 5), the average neck tension (diameter) is .2875 in, when I measure a NEW, never fired Alpha brass it’s .2831 in ... so roughly .004 bigger.
How do I get the once fired brass to sized down. Running 6.5 CM, it’s easier... just run it through the full length resizer... for 25 CM, how do I resize the neck tension.
Seriously, spell it out lol...
How do I get the once fired brass to sized down. Running 6.5 CM, it’s easier... just run it through the full length resizer... for 25 CM, how do I resize the neck tension.
Seriously, spell it out lol...
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Gotcha.
Take your Forester sizing die and drop in the 0.281 bushing, since that's the smallest you have. Take a piece of 6.5 Creedmoor brass, run it through the sizer. Now take a bullet, seat the bullet, and measure the outside diameter with your calipers. If your loaded round measures 0.283 or 0.284, just keep using the 0.281 bushing to squeeze the neck down on all your brass. After spring back, you'll have the neck down to about 0.2815ish. Now just run your mandrel through the neck to set your desired neck tension. If your loaded round is 0.285 or larger, use the 0.283. Personally, I use a 0.282, but I also use Starline brass.
Take your Forester sizing die and drop in the 0.281 bushing, since that's the smallest you have. Take a piece of 6.5 Creedmoor brass, run it through the sizer. Now take a bullet, seat the bullet, and measure the outside diameter with your calipers. If your loaded round measures 0.283 or 0.284, just keep using the 0.281 bushing to squeeze the neck down on all your brass. After spring back, you'll have the neck down to about 0.2815ish. Now just run your mandrel through the neck to set your desired neck tension. If your loaded round is 0.285 or larger, use the 0.283. Personally, I use a 0.282, but I also use Starline brass.
That sounds like a neck measurement. The case measurement will depend on your chamber and how the smith set the head space. There can be 5-6 thousands difference between go and no go gauges and the chamber could be anywhere in between there. Mine is 1.535” on fired brass if I remember correctly, but it could be more or less in your gun.
Wow. Mine is 1.540. Much larger than yalls. When the brass was virgin, I would chamber it and not pull the trigger, and it would leave the round in the chamber. The extractor wouldnt catch unless the trigger was pulled. Am I over stretching the brass and compromising the integrity of the case webbing?
How much are you bumping the shoulder back every time you resize? The first firing would've expanded your brass to your chamber, but if you're only bumping it back a thousandth or two, you aren't working it any harder than anyone else. As long as you aren't bumping it back to, let's say, 1.532 and stretching it to 1.540 each firing, you should be fine.
While the initial stretch is a bit long, it's the repeated sizing, specifically oversizing and forcing it to stretch every time, that will eventually compromise the "case head separation" line. Just keep a bent paper clip on your bench to check.
Neck O.D
As for fired headspace measurement , giving the number mean nothing as the tool used are not the same for anyone so that mean nothing.
what I can tell you is that my fired brass are 0.004 longer than virgin Alpha.
you should do that and compare virgin vs fired.
Don’t worry too much about it. You’ll be fine.
many virgin brass are really at the bottom of the saami spec if not under.
you can always monitor case head separation with the paper clip test. But I doubt it will happen anytime soo
Committed to trying a 25 Creedmoor (more or less).
LMK if I missed anything.
Plan(ed) on working from 6mm SRP brass, so:
Redding FL 6.5 bushing die
-.282 bushing
-tapered .257 expander
Redding 6.5 seater
-257 VLD stem
The 257 VLD stem (which sounds optional and the 6.5 stem might work fine or could use my 6 CM seater) and the tapered expander (similar situation by just getting 6.5 CM brass) are both on back order. Should I just bypass one or both of those items?
For the barrel, I have a Benchmark MTU 7.25tw that’s waiting to be chambered, but haven’t decided on a length yet. Is there any reason to go 27/26” vs say 24/25” if 2950-3000fps is where these bullets want to run anyways? MTU barrels are pretty beast so I’m leaning towards 25”, or even 24 if I’m not going to get much out of the extra length.
Powder wise, I have H4350, 4831sc, H100V, Superformance, and StaBall 6.5 to work with.
LMK if I missed anything.
Plan(ed) on working from 6mm SRP brass, so:
Redding FL 6.5 bushing die
-.282 bushing
-tapered .257 expander
Redding 6.5 seater
-257 VLD stem
The 257 VLD stem (which sounds optional and the 6.5 stem might work fine or could use my 6 CM seater) and the tapered expander (similar situation by just getting 6.5 CM brass) are both on back order. Should I just bypass one or both of those items?
For the barrel, I have a Benchmark MTU 7.25tw that’s waiting to be chambered, but haven’t decided on a length yet. Is there any reason to go 27/26” vs say 24/25” if 2950-3000fps is where these bullets want to run anyways? MTU barrels are pretty beast so I’m leaning towards 25”, or even 24 if I’m not going to get much out of the extra length.
Powder wise, I have H4350, 4831sc, H100V, Superformance, and StaBall 6.5 to work with.
When I asked blackjack about dies he said he preferred the Forster seating dies but the redding with the vld stem works too. I didnt ask him anything more on it because I've used Forster with success for a few seasons now.
I'd use h3450 for the powder, seems like the absolute winner. Rl16 is another option but in my 260 it was much dirtier than H4350 and H4350 should get you easily in that speed mode so theres no reason not to just stick with h4350.
For barrel length just pick what makes sense to you. Will your rifle easily fit in your case with a large prs style brake and a 26 inch barrel? MTU is pretty beefy so do you want the extra weight up front or not?
I run the same Benchmark than you.
I went for 25 inch for fun.
42.3gr of H4350 give me 2905 fps in the first 52 rounds. Then 2925 fps from there and I have not yet shot 100 rounds .
I second the Forster Ultra seater. Better results than with my Redding comp.
For sizing I use a Hornady match FL with a 0.281 bushing and a PMA 0.255 expander
Okay, cool. My 6mm CM seater is a Forster, I’ll see about getting a Forster 6.5 and forgo the VLD stem business with the Redding die.
I haven’t had much luck finding RL powders in general. Figured I’d start with the H4350 at least because there are more data points and then maybe branch out from there.
Looking to go a bit more weight forward than my 6mm (24” HV in an MPA), but I really don’t have any idea what that would come out to in terms of length as this is a completely new rifle (impact in a foundation). I was leaning 25” so maybe I’ll just give that a go, and if I need a bit more heft I’ll drop a heavier magnum brake on it instead of a 419 hellfire.
I haven’t had much luck finding RL powders in general. Figured I’d start with the H4350 at least because there are more data points and then maybe branch out from there.
Looking to go a bit more weight forward than my 6mm (24” HV in an MPA), but I really don’t have any idea what that would come out to in terms of length as this is a completely new rifle (impact in a foundation). I was leaning 25” so maybe I’ll just give that a go, and if I need a bit more heft I’ll drop a heavier magnum brake on it instead of a 419 hellfire.
Hellfire is perfectly enough. I doubt you’ll get more performance with an additional port as there is not enough gas volume.
actually my Forster seater is a 6 creed modified( reamed neck) but the stem fit perfect with the ogive.
Definitely not needed for performance, more for added weight which probably won’t be necessary.
Alright, so I’m going to:
1) Order a 6.5 Forster micrometer seater
2) Order 6.5 SRP brass rather than use 6mm brass
3) Cancel the 257 VLD stem and 6.5 Redding seater
4) Cancel the tapered button as now going down from 6.5
Not relying on anything back ordered now and I think it’s even a bit less cost wise even. Thanks a bunch.
I would use 6mm and size up instead of down sizing 6.5 brass. You are less likely to run into too thick of necks which may require turning depending on your chamber. Hell, I used Alpha 25 Creedmoor brass and still had to turn the necks.
https://alphamunitions.com/product/25-creedmoor-srp-small-rifle-primer/. Y not just go with Alpha 25 cm srp brass? Nvm post above mentioned it, should have read it all the way through
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I went back and looked at my records and this Speer bullet is the most accurate .25 I have ever used as far as grouping goes. Your basic inexpensive boat tail spitzer. I used it for 1.25 moa silhouette comps out to 500 meters. 100 yard groups were under .3 moa with quick load development
Buy Boat-Tail Rifle Bullet .257 Ammo 120 | 1410
Shopping for the Boat-Tail Rifle Bullet - Learn more about the latest Boat-Tail Rifle Bullet and other hunting, shooting or reloading gear at Speer.
www.speer.com
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Since posting the comment u quoted, me and Miles figured out that the lot of bullets I had were no good. He sent me a different lot and my groups tightened right up. No matter where I seated the 1st lot, groups were shit. I found multiple seating depths on the new lot that shot well.
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Cool, based in it's design it should be forgiving on seating depth. Glad you got it worked out. Miles provides good support. I should probably add that the 25-06 has a different throat angle and may need more jump.
I also only qouted you on the Speer bullet because it is accurate for what it is. It doesn't have the BC anywhere near the Ace so it wasn't a comparison. The ACE is a completely different animal.
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I've been watching this for since prwillard2 first posted it up with much interest. Decided to go with it on my RPR. Just got the barrel installed Sunday, and put the first rounds through it on Monday.
Thought I would post up the results so others could compare with other data listed here. As, I've used a few different components.
Rifle: Ruger Precision
Barrel: Krieger @ 26" 1:7.25
Chambered by Patriot Valley Arms
Brass: Starline 6.5 Creedmoor SRP
Primer: Federal GMM SRP
Powder: H4350
Loaded 0.020 off lands
Chrono: Magneto speed
I used the same powder intervals as originally posted here just for comparison. Only three shot groups to start. Plan on five rounders on the next round as I narrow down a load.
40.9 Avg 2779 SD 31.0
41.2 Avg 2894 SD 29.8
41.5 Avg 2824 SD 39.7
41.8 Avg 2856 SD 5.7
42.1 Avg 2875 SD 10.1
42.4 Avg 2901 SD 3.6
42.7 Avg 2930 SD 1.7
43.0 Avg 2955 SD 10.5
43.3 Avg 2978 SD 22.6
43.6 Avg 3018 SD 15.0
I stopped there. The last load listed had very heavily cratered primers. Almost to the point of piercing them.
Group size pretty much followed the SD numbers with 42.4 and 42.7 turning in about .3-.4" @ 100.
Loaded up 42.4 to 42.9 in one tenth increments to try next.
Many thanks to all of the contributer's here for the inspiration to try this caliber! It definitely seems to be telling what it likes so far (much better than my load development for my 6.5 went with the stock barrel).
Thought I would post up the results so others could compare with other data listed here. As, I've used a few different components.
Rifle: Ruger Precision
Barrel: Krieger @ 26" 1:7.25
Chambered by Patriot Valley Arms
Brass: Starline 6.5 Creedmoor SRP
Primer: Federal GMM SRP
Powder: H4350
Loaded 0.020 off lands
Chrono: Magneto speed
I used the same powder intervals as originally posted here just for comparison. Only three shot groups to start. Plan on five rounders on the next round as I narrow down a load.
40.9 Avg 2779 SD 31.0
41.2 Avg 2894 SD 29.8
41.5 Avg 2824 SD 39.7
41.8 Avg 2856 SD 5.7
42.1 Avg 2875 SD 10.1
42.4 Avg 2901 SD 3.6
42.7 Avg 2930 SD 1.7
43.0 Avg 2955 SD 10.5
43.3 Avg 2978 SD 22.6
43.6 Avg 3018 SD 15.0
I stopped there. The last load listed had very heavily cratered primers. Almost to the point of piercing them.
Group size pretty much followed the SD numbers with 42.4 and 42.7 turning in about .3-.4" @ 100.
Loaded up 42.4 to 42.9 in one tenth increments to try next.
Many thanks to all of the contributer's here for the inspiration to try this caliber! It definitely seems to be telling what it likes so far (much better than my load development for my 6.5 went with the stock barrel).
There is an interesting 25 Creedmoor build on YouTube on the Ultimate Reloader channel if anyone hasn't seen it. He does load development for it and got an amazing. 050" group at 100 yards with his. Has me interested in doing one!
Well I took my 25 creed out on the weekend to try a seating depth test. I had worked up a load last year that was a touch on the warm side. I took the rifle out again on the weekend with my load of 41.4gr or rl16 put me at 2916 with an sd of 4.8 over 15 rounds to try and tighten up the 100 yard groups slightly. I think I just didn’t care before but my bolt lift definitely felt heavy and think I’m going have to back down. I went to 42.2 grs before way to much pressure but this bolt lift is enough to back off. Anyone see this kind of pressure at these speeds? Seems a little low on charge and speed to be experiencing heavy bolt lift doesn’t it. Little pissed I have to back off when the sd’s are so low!!
I had to run mine around 2850ish to be all weather safe. 2885 seemed safe until it rained one match and I was beating the bolt open. This was with Alpha brass and RL16 like you are running. Guys running Lapua could go faster. I tried some Lapua from my 6 Creedmoor and realized for the type shooting I do I didn’t like the recoil at 2930ish and went back to the Alpha and 2850 FPS. When I can get bullets again I’ll run slow if I put the barrel back on.
