25 Creedmoor

["A Plate Right..."]

Speaking of which, is there a list of gunsmiths who will chamber for 25 creedmoor?
[/QUOTE]
I think any reputable gunsmith would be willing to chamber for the 25's, especially with the amount of quality reamers available. If he won't, you probably wouldn't want that work the end....

 

[just browsing]

Speaking of which, is there a list of gunsmiths who will chamber for 25 creedmoor?

Travis @ TS Customs

 

[Stevo86]

southern precision rifles chambered my 25cm

 

[Jakeonthekob]

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[MarkLeupold]

southern precision rifles chambered my 25cm

Greg did a great job on my 25x47. That's right about .250" for three shots. Two in the same hole.

 

[Stevo86]

Greg did a great job on my 25x47. That's right about .250" for three shots. Two in the same hole.

View attachment 7105287

Unfortunately I haven’t even had a chance to shoot mine.... bullets,brass, barrel and action all just sitting. Hopefully my stock will be in at the end of this month

 

[sandwarrior]

Unfortunately I haven’t even had a chance to shoot mine.... bullets,brass, barrel and action all just sitting. Hopefully my stock will be in at the end of this month

...Ughhh!!! Hope it all happens soon!

 

[257 Blackjack]

Its prob a .257 PRC or saum

Case length is the same as x47.

It's standard magnum BF and it could be formed from SAUM if a guy wanted to do all that. We already have guys that want to and will take good notes on process and prep.

Good news is we will price ready to fire brass, reamers, and dies as affordably as we can - no holding your wallet hostage.

It's not intended for strict tactical match guys. It's a crossover hunting-match round with as good geometry as you could ask for.

If you want to load it down to 2970-3040 fps where the 131 ACE likes to run it will do that without a hitch. If you want to roll 3140-3170 it will hum right beneath PRS speed limit with low recoil and a killer BC for longer, windier matches like Q Creek, Nebraska stuff, and some of the longer western venues.

The next bullet we release will absolutely scoot out of the 257 Blackjack case. The third BJB release will fit in a 2.880" mag as well but have enough power to get it launched at respectable speed for full effect.

When we do official release there will be a handful of 6 BLACKJACK reamers for guys to crank on as well as the PILE of 257 Blackjack reamers.

Over the next few months we'll start a new thread for 257 BLACKJACK to keep everyone in the loop.

 

[257 Blackjack]

Yup you're probably right. Definitely keeping an eye on this one though. Still debating between 6 creedmoor or 25 creedmoor.

Speaking of which, is there a list of gunsmiths who will chamber for 25 creedmoor?

Beanland Rifles
Butch's Guns
PVA
TS Customs
ES Tactical
SAC
WTO
APEX Gunworks (pretty sure)
Paradigm Precision
Southern Precision
GAP (pretty sure they have reamer)

The list is not exhaustive and growing all the time. We've got a few 25 Creed BJB spec reamers left in stock.

 

[Jakeonthekob]

Sweet thank you!

 

[sandwarrior]

Case length is the same as x47.

It's standard magnum BF and it could be formed from SAUM if a guy wanted to do all that. We already have guys that want to and will take good notes on process and prep.

Good news is we will price ready to fire brass, reamers, and dies as affordably as we can - no holding your wallet hostage.

It's not intended for strict tactical match guys. It's a crossover hunting-match round with as good geometry as you could ask for.

If you want to load it down to 2970-3040 fps where the 131 ACE likes to run it will do that without a hitch. If you want to roll 3140-3170 it will hum right beneath PRS speed limit with low recoil and a killer BC for longer, windier matches like Q Creek, Nebraska stuff, and some of the longer western venues.

The next bullet we release will absolutely scoot out of the 257 Blackjack case. The third BJB release will fit in a 2.880" mag as well but have enough power to get it launched at respectable speed for full effect.

When we do official release there will be a handful of 6 BLACKJACK reamers for guys to crank on as well as the PILE of 257 Blackjack reamers.

Over the next few months we'll start a new thread for 257 BLACKJACK to keep everyone in the loop.

Thanks for those replies. I figured you had people who already want to size the brass to sell. Thus, in a pinch, the SAUM is the preferred brass to work with, then how hard would it be to size down and fireform WSM?

I had to laugh as I don't know where people get the idea that if a cartridge is developed for target shooting, you can't use it as a hunting round? They have to be told many times it can work.

 

[sako17]

Someone mentioned a 25 Grendel, I has serious thoughts about that. I shoot a 25-204 it hit 2800+ fps with 100gr NPT"s and works well on deer. The 25 Grendel would fit a small action like a Mini-Howa or Mini-Mauser, what a sweet little rifle you could build around that.

 

[sandwarrior]

Someone mentioned a 25 Grendel, I has serious thoughts about that. I shoot a 25-204 it hit 2800+ fps with 100gr NPT"s and works well on deer. The 25 Grendel would fit a small action like a Mini-Howa or Mini-Mauser, what a sweet little rifle you could build around that.

JLK used to make some great 108 gr. bullets. That was as much as a 1-10" twist could handle.

Maybe Blackjack could consider a lighter high BC bullet in the 108-120 gr. range? Right now, I'm sure getting the 131 off the ground and running is a full plate for them, though.

 

[Texaslongshot]

I do not know a lot about the wildcat type cartridges. I have heard something about a 25 PRC.....

Is there such thing as a 25 PRC or is it the same at the 25 creedmoore? I apologize if this is common knowledge

 

[sandwarrior]

I do not know a lot about the wildcat type cartridges. I have heard something about a 25 PRC.....

Is there such thing as a 25 PRC or is it the same at the 25 creedmoore? I apologize if this is common knowledge

The PRC is a magnum boltface. It's just slightly smaller than the WSM's. And a smidge longer than the SAUM.

One difference is the SAUM has a slightly rebated rim. The body at the base is .550" Where the PRC is .534"

 

[Supersubes]

I do not know a lot about the wildcat type cartridges. I have heard something about a 25 PRC.....

Is there such thing as a 25 PRC or is it the same at the 25 creedmoore? I apologize if this is common knowledge

Yes there’s a 25 PRC. Standard 6.5 PRC necked to 25. I just built one using one of BJ’s .090 freebore reamers. I’m just tinkering at the moment, but i’ll
post when I have more data.

 

[Tactical Taz]

I do not know a lot about the wildcat type cartridges. I have heard something about a 25 PRC.....

Is there such thing as a 25 PRC or is it the same at the 25 creedmoore? I apologize if this is common knowledge

I shot a 25 PRC at the Q Creek match this year and will be again for the team match at the end of the month. I plan to get a thread going when I get time to post up my results so far. The 131 ACE at 3200 though is extremely flat. I am excited to shoot an elk with it this fall.

 

[Supersubes]

I shot a 25 PRC at the Q Creek match this year and will be again for the team match at the end of the month. I plan to get a thread going when I get time to post up my results so far. The 131 ACE at 3200 though is extremely flat. I am excited to shoot an elk with it this fall.

3200 is exactly where i’m at for an all conditions safe load.

 

[Tactical Taz]

3200 is exactly where i’m at for an all conditions safe load.

It seems very safe to me. I have to do a little temp testing with RL26 as I am still skeptical of it in over 85F conditions. Absolutely no signs of pressure though. We ran it up to 33xx but bolt lift got a little sticky. I didn't have a lot of time to do load development and want to revisit a few things to try and get my ES down.

 

[Texaslongshot]

I would love to see a 25 PRC thread!!

 

[sandwarrior]

I would love to see a 25 PRC thread!!

What I’d like is a .257 Roberts thread with Blackjack bullets! Of course, the Ackley fans would have to be allowed in as they are one of the most popular wildcats of all time.

Understand, it won’t be a top performer, but it will certainly get the 131 going fast enough to do whatever you want with it. Put a good barrel on a Mauser (or Win 70), throat it long, and have a sweet shooting rifle.?

 

[FuhQ]

Bump for an old thread...

I've been interested in building one of these for a few years now, since the Blackjack 131 ACE bullets hit the market. Any updates on the QuarterLord project?

Where did you get your reamer, and can I get specs, or do they have them already produced and on-hand?

 

[Supersubes]

Bump for an old thread...

I've been interested in building one of these for a few years now, since the Blackjack 131 ACE bullets hit the market. Any updates on the QuarterLord project?

Where did you get your reamer, and can I get specs, or do they have them already produced and on-hand?

The 131’s are still mia from late 2020. Many have transitioned to the 135 berger. Ive got plenty of both but have been shooting the 135. The 133 berger hit the shelves recently as well. Graf’s has large and small primer 25 cm brass in stock. Last I checked Blackjack was pretty slim on reamers. You can download the prints there to see the specs.

 

[FuhQ]

The 131’s are still mia from late 2020. Many have transitioned to the 135 berger. Ive got plenty of both but have been shooting the 135. The 133 berger hit the shelves recently as well. Graf’s has large and small primer 25 cm brass in stock. Last I checked Blackjack was pretty slim on reamers. You can download the prints there to see the specs.

Yeah, I’ve had 2 boxes in order since Jan 2021…. But the Berger 135’s can still be found, and I’ve shot Berger almost exclusively for 10 years. I still have a few loads that use Noslers, but the rest are Berger.

Yeah, I was wanting to build a .25x284 Blackjack, but they’re sold out of reamers.

 

[just browsing]

135s are and have been a dime a dozen. My local Sportsman’s Warehouse has had them on the shelf for like the last 6 months for under $50/box. I buy like 500 every time I go.

I have no idea why everyone is hung up on the Blackjacks when the Bergers literally do everything they do and then some.

 

[coldboremiracle]

I have no idea why everyone is hung up on the Blackjacks when the Bergers literally do everything they do and then some.

Because Berger wouldn't have done shit if Blackjack hadn't opened the door.

 

[Supersubes]

135s are and have been a dime a dozen. My local Sportsman’s Warehouse has had them on the shelf for like the last 6 months for under $50/box. I buy like 500 every time I go.

I have no idea why everyone is hung up on the Blackjacks when the Bergers literally do everything they do and then some.

To add to a Coldbore said, the 131 technically is a higher performance bullet. It’s got a higher BC and can be pushed faster. I found that the 135s pressure up more than the extra four grains of weight suggests it should. They’re about 75 ft./s slower in my gun on the 131’s Additionally, a lot of people are heavily invested in the blackjack bullet. Blackjack is a nice company to deal with and it’s really unfortunate that Sierra has them over a barrel right now. sierra would rather sell ammo and bullets at pandemic pricing, then honor standing orders from before all this bullshit started.

 

[just browsing]

Because Berger wouldn't have done shit if Blackjack hadn't opened the door.

Same could be said for a lot of things.

To add to a Coldbore said, the 131 technically is a higher performance bullet. It’s got a higher BC and can be pushed faster. I found that the 135s pressure up more than the extra four grains of weight suggests it should. They’re about 75 ft./s slower in my gun on the 131’s Additionally, a lot of people are heavily invested in the blackjack bullet. Blackjack is a nice company to deal with and it’s really unfortunate that Sierra has them over a barrel right now. sierra would rather sell ammo and bullets at pandemic pricing, then honor standing orders from before all this bullshit started.

I’ve found the contrary. 135s, at least with the proper chamber, can be pushed to pretty much the same speeds as the 131s without pressure, and I sure as shit don’t see any appreciable BC difference between the two. Maybe I’m just one of the lucky ones.

ETA: I have zero affliction with Blackjack or any preference to Berger, but availability is the name of the game right now and the Bergers are plentiful. If you don’t want to shoot them for the reasons listed above, that’s your prerogative. I agree that it’s unfortunate that Blackjack is at the mercy of Sierra, but I don’t particularly care who pioneered what. The Bergers are one of the few things you can find for normal prices in the current climate, so I can’t understand how anyone is complaining about that

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I like and shoot both, but if all things were the same, i liked the way the blackjacks shot a little more than the bergers. I have tons of the bergers, which is awesome, but only have about 700 of the black jacks. 90%+ of the reamers for the fast twist 25's are throated for the black jacks. Luckily, the bergers still shoot well in my barrels. Im not hot rodding them and the same powder charge works well with both bullets. The bergers are about 50fps slower with 41 gr. of H4350. I do have 300 of the 133 bergers i plan on shooting in my tikka 25cm barrel that i spun for hunting so im excited on trying those out. i do plan on hot rodding the shit out of that barrel for maximum energy on target given it is a hunting rifle. If they dont shoot well, i'll dedicate the rest of my black jacks for that barrel. 700 will last me a lifetime for a hunting rifle and the 135's will be dedicated for match use.

 

[canezach]

Because Berger wouldn't have done shit if Blackjack hadn't opened the door.

I made a very similar comment on a different discussion when the 135s were first announced. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy Berger produced the 135s and the 133s, but Blackjack was the first that had high BC quarter bore bullets brought to the market for mass consumption and made others realize there's a profitable market for 25 caliber bullets that aren't just hunting bullets.

Edit: I'm another guy who likes both and will shoot whichever I can find, so this isn't a knock on Berger. I was fortunate to buy a few thousand Blackjacks when they were available and have about 2500 of the Berger 135s on hand, so I'm no brand loyalist, but I can appreciate the risk and effort Blackjack undertook to make this a reality

 

[blksno]

I would love to see a 25 PRC thread!!

I've got a 7 twist, 25" 25Creed barrel on the way for my M7 Mausingfield, and when my 6x284 is toast...That's going to become a 25-284

 

[FuhQ]

I emailed Blackjack like a month ago, and still haven't heard back. Tried calling...No answer. Are they even still in business?

 

[4O6shootist]

I emailed Blackjack like a month ago, and still haven't heard back. Tried calling...No answer. Are they even still in business?

Nobody knows what's going on at blackjack currently......they've gone pretty quiet. One the founding partners publicly split from company due to unknowns, but i feel its the ethics of taking peoples money and not giving a delivered product for over a year. Sierra has put this company in a huge bind. Dtac too, but Tubb likely has money in the bank due to many more years of operation.

 

[Supersubes]

Nobody knows what's going on at blackjack currently......they've gone pretty quiet. One the founding partners publicly split from company due to unknowns, but i feel its the ethics of taking peoples money and not giving a delivered product for over a year. Sierra has put this company in a huge bind. Dtac too, but Tubb likely has money in the bank due to many more years of operation.

Tubb just put out an email saying dtacs are inbound. Perhaps thats a sign that sierra is getting their shit together.

 

[FuhQ]

Nobody knows what's going on at blackjack currently......they've gone pretty quiet. One the founding partners publicly split from company due to unknowns, but i feel its the ethics of taking peoples money and not giving a delivered product for over a year. Sierra has put this company in a huge bind. Dtac too, but Tubb likely has money in the bank due to many more years of operation.

Which one split? Was it Myles or Logan?

 

[4O6shootist]

Tubb just put out an email saying dtacs are inbound. Perhaps thats a sign that sierra is getting their shit together.

I've noticed some 107 and 142s in stock as of late, so they are actually making bullets. Seemed as if they went under too. Perhaps they made a few hundred million rounds for the gov to fight the imminent civil war thats coming.

 

[4O6shootist]

Which one split? Was it Myles or Logan?

Logan announced it a week or so ago.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Reviving this old thread with some great news. The 134 ELDM's are finally here, I pulled out the old Creedmoor to see how they fly.

 

[canezach]

@coldboremiracle how'd they shoot? What was your velocity? BC? My ELDMs arrived today, just in time for me to go back to work, so no shooting until Sunday at the earliest for me

 

[JMGlasgow]

I'm currently working switching one of my rifles from 6.5 Creedmoor to 25x47 Lapua. I'm glad to see another match bullet option.

 

[sandwarrior]

Reviving this old thread with some great news. The 134 ELDM's are finally here, I pulled out the old Creedmoor to see how they fly.

View attachment 8142974
View attachment 8142975

View attachment 8142972

small rifle primers

 

[coldboremiracle]

small rifle primers

correct

 

[Superminokla]

I had Patriot Valley Arms do mine.

 

[FuhQ]

Bumping this, since I'm fixing to be building one... Anyone got any recommendations which chamber reamer and dies to get?

I'm guessing for dies, just 6.5CM bushing dies with a proper sized busing for the .257 necks? Or is someone making actual .25CM dies?

 

[db2000]

Bumping this, since I'm fixing to be building one... Anyone got any recommendations which chamber reamer and dies to get?

I'm guessing for dies, just 6.5CM bushing dies with a proper sized busing for the .257 necks? Or is someone making actual .25CM dies?

The former as far as I know. Working fine for me.

 

[Stevo86]

Same

 

[canezach]

I've just been using 6.5 Creedmoor and PRC dies with the proper bushing

 

[Supersubes]

Bumping this, since I'm fixing to be building one... Anyone got any recommendations which chamber reamer and dies to get?

I'm guessing for dies, just 6.5CM bushing dies with a proper sized busing for the .257 necks? Or is someone making actual .25CM dies?

Im using the BJ Rev 2 reamer, which has .115 freebore and a .290 neck. Loaded neck dia in lapua 6.5 brass measures .2845, and annealed/fired cases measure .2885. I think they designed this for “thick” necks, but its ideal imo.

This is my standard load with 135 bergers at .030 jump in a chamber with ~400 rounds on it.

 

[4O6shootist]

Im using a KRUD reamer 291nk, 150k freebore. I've found my particular 2 lots of lapua 65cm and ocd alpha 65cm necked down are both 0.286 loaded with my micrometer measuring. Do it again, I'd cut it with 170-180fb. The 135 Berger and new eldm have LONG bearing surface. The freebore set by blackjack was to fit inside 2.85" binder plate mags with a short bearing surface 133 blackjack.

 

[db2000]

Im using a KRUD reamer 291nk, 150k freebore. I've found my particular 2 lots of lapua 65cm and ocd alpha 65cm necked down are both 0.286 loaded with my micrometer measuring. Do it again, I'd cut it with 170-180fb. The 135 Berger and new eldm have LONG bearing surface. The freebore set by blackjack was to fit inside 2.85" binder plate mags with a short bearing surface 133 blackjack.

*131 Blackjack I believe