Just got to thinking, why has no one came out with a long range cartridge/bullet combo for this? A quick check revealed little bullet selection compared to the 6 or 6.5.. Is there a reason? Too small of market? It would seem like the next darling caliber, could have better ballistics and barrel life than a 6mm, better velocity and less recoil than a 6.5. What are your thoughts?
Range Report .257 Cartridge for Precision Rifle Comps
- Thread starter kabarNC
- Start date
My wish list: something that feeds 100 percent out of a mag. Every time, no spacer kits, no lip trimming/tweaking, nothing. Something with enough room in a mag and case neck that can seat a heavy for caliber VLD wherever you want it. Something that has a good load density and a node around 2900ish fps with available, easy to find powders. At least 4 options for match bullets ranging from 110 to 130gr for match shooting. Small rifle primers. Ha...
I say improve the 250 Savage case, less taper, blown out, shouldered at 35 degrees, small rifle primer, and call it the Quarter Pounder.
Kabar knows whats up. Maybe when I win the lottery I can invest and help tool up for his cartridge.
Years ago I hoped 25 cal. would reap the benefits of modern advancements but no dice. Now there's too many good options on both sides to invest the sums needed to go mainstream with something better. The whole stuck on 1:10 twist market inertia thing.
SH Bossman covered this a while back.
I think .257 is now stuck like 8mm, with to many good modern things on either side to compete well which is a shame.
There are custom options available. Bartlein will make a .257 barrel in any twist you want.
115 vld's need a 1:9 or 9.5 for top stability but still work well in my 1:10 twist with about a 4% bc penalty. Steel targets and the taxidermy in my house couldn't tell the difference.
Hammer Bullets in Montana offers some neat .257 copper solid bullets but I have no experience with them.
Heaviest is 128 grains stating a 1:7 twist needed. I can't recall bc numbers. With that fast twist I'm not sure if that would still work well with lighter bullets pushed fast.
I've wondered about something in the 25-06 to 280 Remington range for PRS matches using AICS 300 win mag 10 round magazines.
My google research indicated a 12 round capacity with such. Not sure if that's a real advantage though.
Years ago I hoped 25 cal. would reap the benefits of modern advancements but no dice. Now there's too many good options on both sides to invest the sums needed to go mainstream with something better. The whole stuck on 1:10 twist market inertia thing.
SH Bossman covered this a while back.
I think .257 is now stuck like 8mm, with to many good modern things on either side to compete well which is a shame.
There are custom options available. Bartlein will make a .257 barrel in any twist you want.
115 vld's need a 1:9 or 9.5 for top stability but still work well in my 1:10 twist with about a 4% bc penalty. Steel targets and the taxidermy in my house couldn't tell the difference.
Hammer Bullets in Montana offers some neat .257 copper solid bullets but I have no experience with them.
Heaviest is 128 grains stating a 1:7 twist needed. I can't recall bc numbers. With that fast twist I'm not sure if that would still work well with lighter bullets pushed fast.
I've wondered about something in the 25-06 to 280 Remington range for PRS matches using AICS 300 win mag 10 round magazines.
My google research indicated a 12 round capacity with such. Not sure if that's a real advantage though.
Good info, thanks. On your comments for using long action 2506 to 280 for PRS, I've a shot a few matches with my 284win, with 10rd LA AI mags. A little too much recoil for consistently spotting hits at distance, but it is a sceptre of death on windy matches.. and it will hold 11rds under a closed bolt.
I do a nice mild load in my 257 Weatherby Mag. I feed it out of AI 300 win mag 3.715" mags and got plenty of room to spare if they come out with a nice VLD for it. I am currently launching the 110 Nosler at 3100 FPS and the 120 Nosler at 3050 with H4350. Easy to find powder and I use that powder across all of my rigs (280, 6.5x284, and 257 Wby).
I purposefully built the rifle with a faster twist rate (Brux spun this up for me) in case someone decides to give me a long range target bullet in the 120-130 weight. Trying not to shoot it so much that I burn the barrel out, but it is the lightest recoiling magnum round that I have and it's a tack driver!
I wanted to do a 25-06 since there is factory brass for that load but ended up with a magnum bolt face action sitting around and a 25 cal barrel so the 257 Wby won. Not huge on belted magnums but I found the once fired brass at a local gun shop sitting in a dusty box and offered him $0.35 each for it. He was delighted and dug up every box of fired rounds he could find and I made out with about 120 pieces of once fired weatherby brass (this stuff sells north of $1.50 for new).
I purposefully built the rifle with a faster twist rate (Brux spun this up for me) in case someone decides to give me a long range target bullet in the 120-130 weight. Trying not to shoot it so much that I burn the barrel out, but it is the lightest recoiling magnum round that I have and it's a tack driver!
I wanted to do a 25-06 since there is factory brass for that load but ended up with a magnum bolt face action sitting around and a 25 cal barrel so the 257 Wby won. Not huge on belted magnums but I found the once fired brass at a local gun shop sitting in a dusty box and offered him $0.35 each for it. He was delighted and dug up every box of fired rounds he could find and I made out with about 120 pieces of once fired weatherby brass (this stuff sells north of $1.50 for new).
That weatherby brass should last a while loaded at 25-06 velocity. Would the 6.5-300 weatherby fit in the same magazine?
Sadly, no good bullets exist. You can, however, make your own.
http://www.corbins.com/kits.htm
If I had the money, i'd buy the setup just to make a 174 grain rebated boattail .30 cal match bullet
http://www.corbins.com/kits.htm
If I had the money, i'd buy the setup just to make a 174 grain rebated boattail .30 cal match bullet
Suitable bullet availability is the problem with the quarterbore. Had been asking Berger for a 130-135gr 0.257" bullet for years...... still hasn't happened.
I'm definitely in. I strongly feel that if bullet selection was there, modern cartridge design would follow close behind.
I will mostly echo what has been said already in this thread. Bullet selection seems poor, comparatively. I have shot quite a few rounds of 117gr pills in the last month out of a Remington Sendero 25-06 that I had originally intended to setup for a competition rig. I don't think I am wanting to shoot that thing 80-100 times a day. I also think it is a little too recoily for spotting misses well. This has gotten me curious though about a modern case necked to .257? Following this.
I used to run a 257 Roberts Ackley Improved with 100 grain SMKs out of a SA Rem 700 and a Ruger M77 (old style). The Ruger, because of the longer action was a laser (think 3300fps with the 100 grainers) but the shorter action capped it out at about 3100fps.
To take best advantage from the 57mm case with long bullets and a magazine, you need the longer action which is more prone to binding and is slower on the rapid fires.
Now if you wanted to neck the 6.5 x 47 (and variants like the Creedmoor) down to 25 cal and try it with 117/120, I think you would have a good cartridge ... but there is little point when you can do that already with the parent case.
Or the 6BR necked up... but again the gains are few beyond ego stroking.
To take best advantage from the 57mm case with long bullets and a magazine, you need the longer action which is more prone to binding and is slower on the rapid fires.
Now if you wanted to neck the 6.5 x 47 (and variants like the Creedmoor) down to 25 cal and try it with 117/120, I think you would have a good cartridge ... but there is little point when you can do that already with the parent case.
Or the 6BR necked up... but again the gains are few beyond ego stroking.
I really like the 25 caliber for hunting and have a 25-223, 25-06, 25-06AI, and a 257 weatherby. They are hindered by bullet selection. I have a couple hundred 115 Berger vlds and have never been able to get them to shoot very well in the larger 3, I haven't tried them in the little guy yet. My Weatherby is built on a Stolle Panda action, it's set up for a bench varmint gun and shoots 85gr Ballistic tips really fast and leaves body parts in a ten foot radius out to several hundred yards.
Slower twist 25x47 or 25 creed would be a good one if you could get the Bergers to shoot.
Slower twist 25x47 or 25 creed would be a good one if you could get the Bergers to shoot.
So that's it? Hornady said, "Nah, don't bother making the 6.5 Creedmoor, because the .260 already does what we want to do better."? Why then do we see the popularity of 6.5 Creedmoor/6.5x47/6.5saum "when you can do that already" with the .260? Of course the gains will be few, but that's what people do, they will monkey with cartridge design til the end of time.
Of course that is not it. People will want to fiddle but this is not the 50s - 90s anymore and if you are shooting volume then it is cheaper and easy to go to a factory case.
If you want something special, go the custom route but remember that you have to improve the performance of existing cases against one or more of the following criteria. Case life, powder efficiency, barrel life, velocity for cartridge weight, ease of loading (both reloading and in the rifle).
That is why the current crop of 6.5mm shorts do better than the old 6.5s. And that is why the old quarter bore doesn't get the attention it deserves.
I have won competitors with my 257 Roberts Ackley. But it is not as good as my 6.5 x 47 against the current crop of competitors.
a good 120-130 out of a .308 based cartridge would probably work quite well.
Hell a .250 Savage AI would be pretty impressive.
Hell a .250 Savage AI would be pretty impressive.
So what does it take for a new .257 cartridge design to get started? Big companies like Rem, Hornady, or Win etc to build the whole case/bullet shebang, or does some big name company just manufacture better BC bullets, and the rest of the industry takes notice? Or is it that the standard rate of twist in barrels never tightens up in mainstream production?
First the anticipation of profit, which fails this project for most manufacturers. Not many 1/4 bore enthusiasts out there.
Got to start with the bullet and that means a high BC number match bullet. .64 G1 BC would bring some interest at around 130 grains. 6.5 creed based comes to mind but with a fancy 35 degree shoulder. It'd need close to a 7.25 twist.
25-06 AI with said bullet would be cool and so would 25 Saum.
Got to start with the bullet and that means a high BC number match bullet. .64 G1 BC would bring some interest at around 130 grains. 6.5 creed based comes to mind but with a fancy 35 degree shoulder. It'd need close to a 7.25 twist.
25-06 AI with said bullet would be cool and so would 25 Saum.
I have a remington 700 action with a Heart barrel 25-06. It is the best shooting gun that I own. I'm pushing the 100 grain barns TTSX at over 3300 FPS and it is a flat out laser. Barrel life is my main concern with this much speed so I just use it as a hunting gun.
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I have had a .250 Ack Imp 40° and a .25-06AI. Both qith a 1:10" twist. Both shot the 115 HVLD amazingly well. The .250AI pushed them at 3050 from a 23" barrel,and the .25-06AI could push them over 3600fps from a 28" barrel,but I ran them at 3450. They killed a lot of game out to 500, and even a coyote at 1327 from the .250AI. But both have been rebarreled and converted. The .250AI is now a 6.5 SLR, and the .25-06AI is now a .280AI.
If Berger would come out with a 125-130 Elite Hunter, I would build another .25-06AI with a faster twist barrel in a heartbeat.
If Berger would come out with a 125-130 Elite Hunter, I would build another .25-06AI with a faster twist barrel in a heartbeat.
Blackjack bullets are coming out with some 131g high BC 25 cal produced by Sierra. Which have been tested on a Oehler 88 system over repeated 10-12 shot strings with 1000y average G7 BC of .330 at 2,940 fps / .333 at 3,140 fps and great results on target. In testing they have run these up to 2,950 fps in a 25x47L with no pressure signs. Looks like the .257 can now outperform the 6's and 6.5's in precision rifle comps!
I know this is old as hell, but the .25 Cal was always big in comps back before we discovered BC (a hundred years after the Europeans). Anyhow, one of the spinoffs from the FAT-1E3 was the .25 SALVO. Circa about 1952. That iteration of the Light Rifle search was pretty much straight up, a .308 necked down to .257.
It's found here:
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/project-salvo-cartridges/15609
added:
Speaking of .257's here's one I thought about bidding on:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/783230131
It's found here:
https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/project-salvo-cartridges/15609
added:
Speaking of .257's here's one I thought about bidding on:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/783230131
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That's actually pretty cool. I was wondering why no one does a 120-130gr low drag projo for the 25 cal. I imagine nobody wants to hear fudds complain that they don't stabilize. I think the x47L is a perfect capacity for them, too.
Finally a thread on cool stuff! I have a Mauser 25-06 that filled a lot of Varment bags. Love that rifle. Sadly it sets in the safe now as my little .223 took over duties. Quarter bores are awesome nich rifles. FYI there is a funny comparison of the 25-06 and the 6.5 CM on the internet. Do a search, it’s worth the read.
The .25's have been struggling since the .257 Roberts got off to a bad start in the mid 30's. There were at least 3 versions, it was saddled with short mag boxes, long throats and a very low SAAMI top end pressure limit. Never recovered. Great cartridge for all that.
I have a Weatherby .257 that mostly sits in the safe now. Too expensive to shoot against the 6.5CM and .308’s. BUT..... that rifle killed like Thor’s hammer. Killed an Elk and a Mule deer buck in Colorado. Have taken several 400-500# hogs with it. I absolutely love Accubonds through it. Absolutely an awesome hunting rifle.
The .257 Wby was my favorite of all of them. I sold the one I had to some friends who were moving up to Alaska. Had nothing to do with the rifle. Anyhow, It was an aftermarket barrel on a pre-'64. But, the chamber was cut to true Weatherby specs, including the 1/2" freebore. I don't know how rough the throat was, but the only bullets that would hold together through it were Noslers. I see other Wby rifles shooting all brands of bullets, so I think it was the throat in my rifle.
The 131 Blackjack would be a perfect bullet for the .257 Condor.
The 131 Blackjack would be a perfect bullet for the .257 Condor.
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