26" 223 Match shooting 77SMK over Varget

[capreppy]

I'm putting together a rifle later this week. Barrel is broke in. Purchased from James @ Northland Shooters Supply. CBI Savage pre-fit (26" 223 Match with a 1/7 twist). It was on a Savage short action, but is now going on a Zermatt Origin short action.

I've got 77 SMK, Starline 223 brass, Fed 205M, and Varget. Not looking for pet loads as I'll do my own development, but looking for a powder range based on the components and the rifle above as well as typical jump.

Hodgdon has a max of 23.7 and that is compressed. Are people still going above that?

 

[Greenmoustache]

FWIW I run 77s over 24gr Varget with Starline brass in my .223 and 80s over 26gr Varget in my .223 AI. The 223 barrels I have has a pretty long throat and I’m not interested in single feeding so I hit mag length and still am .050”+ off the lands with MDT mags.

 

[White Mamba]

you should find a good load in the 23's. I start to crunch at .7 and .9 with 88 elds.
I would recommend you try the 88s as well

 

[capreppy]

FWIW I run 77s over 24gr Varget with Starline brass in my .223 and 80s over 26gr Varget in my .223 AI. The 223 barrels I have has a pretty long throat and I’m not interested in single feeding so I hit mag length and still am .050”+ off the lands with MDT mags.

I’ll definitely be starting low and working up to that. I’ll be running MDT mags so 50 thousand jump.

you should find a good load in the 23's. I start to crunch at .7 and .9 with 88 elds.
I would recommend you try the 88s as well

I’ll start around there and go up from there.

I would do 88’s, but sitting on 4k 77SMKs so…

 

[jLorenzo]

I think it depends on your COAL and chamber. How long are you going to load these rounds?

 

[Cfshooter]

23-24g test should help you find something it likes. If it doesn’t, get a new barrel. Please post up results, curious on how that barrel performs.

 

[Rider47]

23.4 gr. Varget with moly 77SMK's optimal in my two RRA .223 Wylde's and a 224Valkyrie. Very weird that the same load optimizes precision across three rifles, including a different chambering . . .
COAL from 2.270" to 2.340" (modified magazine) for the different rifles.

 

[capreppy]

I think it depends on your COAL and chamber. How long are you going to load these rounds?

I believe CBI runs the PTG 223 Match. I am running an MDT chassis so this will be running MDT magazines

23-24g test should help you find something it likes. If it doesn’t, get a new barrel. Please post up results, curious on how that barrel performs.

I will update this thread once I do my first round of testing. I’ll likely do 23-24 in .2 increments

23.4 gr. Varget with moly 77SMK's optimal in my two RRA .223 Wylde's and a 224Valkyrie. Very weird that the same load optimizes precision across three rifles, including a different chambering . . .
COAL from 2.270" to 2.340" (modified magazine) for the different rifles.

This is great info. I would ideally like to find a load that isn’t compressed as I use an Arbor press and not sure how compressed loads do in an arbor press.

 

[Cfshooter]

@capreppy this is one of the 77SMK Varget OCW’s I have done in a 20” Wylde.

 

[capreppy]

WOA assumes AR?

These loads will definitely be in the range I'll be looking at.

My Wilson seating die is enroute from MidwayUSA and looks like my action should arrive at my LGS on Thursday so I can pick up on Friday and then get barrel put on that afternoon. I am HOPING I can get out to the range on Sunday (Saturday is out as my wife has Valentines Day plans).

 

[Rover31]

I have the exact same rifle.
Running 80 SMKs over 25g of Varget. great accuracy! right around 2700fps if I remember correctly.

 

[Cfshooter]

WOA assumes AR?

These loads will definitely be in the range I'll be looking at.

My Wilson seating die is enroute from MidwayUSA and looks like my action should arrive at my LGS on Thursday so I can pick up on Friday and then get barrel put on that afternoon. I am HOPING I can get out to the range on Sunday (Saturday is out as my wife has Valentines Day plans).

yep, 20" AR 1/8 twist. I have run this test in straight 223 bolt guns as well, seems the be the range that works well with this combo. I have also found seating depths within .020 of lands, and as short as 2.245 that work well. Here is the complete work up for that AR and combo.

 

[powdahound76]

I run 24.0 of Varget with the 77 in 2 ARs.

Shoot darn well.

With a bolt, even with 4k SMKs, you will likely see improved performance at distance looking at bullets that do better in a .223 bolt than AR.

Guy i shoot with runs 75 eldms at 3k from his 26” barrel.
Impressive results to distance.

 

[Cfshooter]

I run 24.0 of Varget with the 77 in 2 ARs.

Shoot darn well.

With a bolt, even with 4k SMKs, you will likely see improved performance at distance looking at bullets that do better in a .223 bolt than AR.

Guy i shoot with runs 75 eldms at 3k from his 26” barrel.
Impressive results to distance.

80.5 Bergers are the bullet of choice for me in bolt 223's, they hold up very well up to 600 for me so far.

 

[powdahound76]

80.5 Bergers are the bullet of choice for me in bolt 223's, they hold up very well up to 600 for me so far.

Ah, I run my 16” and 18” AR with 77s to 600 without much issue unless the wind is particularly ornery that day (not uncommon in CO)
Also have shot the 75 Hornady BTHP to 600.

Not shooting F or BR, so not sure its worth the $$$ for the Bergers for me.

But for my own 26” bolt barrel it just might be.

 

[Cfshooter]

Ah, I run my 16” and 18” AR with 77s to 600 without much issue unless the wind is particularly ornery that day (not uncommon in CO)
Also have shot the 75 Hornady BTHP to 600.

Not shooting F or BR, so not sure its worth the $$$ for the Bergers for me.

But for my own 26” bolt barrel it just might be.

I actually prefer the 75BTHP over the 77smk. I was shooting the 75BTHP for matches in FTR until I tried the 80.5's, it helps that the same load works great in 2 rifles as well. I still do shoot the 75BTHP's in gas gun matches though. Now my 77smk's just collect dust or get loaded up for my 9 year old for practice and brass forming.

 

[capreppy]

I run 24.0 of Varget with the 77 in 2 ARs.

Shoot darn well.

With a bolt, even with 4k SMKs, you will likely see improved performance at distance looking at bullets that do better in a .223 bolt than AR.

Guy i shoot with runs 75 eldms at 3k from his 26” barrel.
Impressive results to distance.

I shoot a 6.5CM as my main rifle and use that primarily out to 1200.

This rifle will be for trigger time (working on basics at shorter distances up to 600). This will also be shot by my kids so distance isn't a priority

 

[6MT]

My best load for a 26” 1:8” twist with 77gr SMK’s…

Lapua brass, BR4, 24.1gr Varget, .010” jump off the lands. Gives 2928fps (70deg). I no longer use the 77gr bullet. I have switched to 80gr VLD’s.

Might help…?

 

[capreppy]

My best load for a 26” 1:8” twist with 77gr SMK’s…

Lapua brass, BR4, 24.1gr Varget, .010” jump off the lands. Gives 2928fps (70deg). I no longer use the 77gr bullet. I have switched to 80gr VLD’s.

Might help…?

It does help. Seen plenty around 24, but will definitely work up to it. If I decide to compete with the 223, I'll pick up another bullet, but for now and its intended purpose, I'll stick with the 77SMK. I've always had good luck with it and I have a ton.

 

[jLorenzo]

I think you be fine around 24.0 of varget. I have shot 25gr of N140 which is fairly close to Varget with 80gr loads. Keep in mind my rounds were long, near 2.49-.2.53 COAL. Always work up for your self, nothing wrong with looking around and sharing data points thought.

When starting fresh I just load 10 rounds or more, each increasing in charge .2 or .3gr of powder, shoot them over the chrono and look at brass just to get an idea of velocity and when pressure signs start to show.

 

[capreppy]

I think you be fine around 24.0 of varget. I have shot 25gr of N140 which is fairly close to Varget with 80gr loads. Keep in mind my rounds were long, near 2.49-.2.53 COAL. Always work up for your self, nothing wrong with looking around and sharing data points thought.

When starting fresh I just load 10 rounds or more, each increasing in charge .2 or .3gr of powder, shoot them over the chrono and look at brass just to get an idea of velocity and when pressure signs start to show.

I've got 500 pieces of virgin Starline brass. Already uniformed primer pockets and deburred primer flash hole (was stuck on a several hour long conference call and had nothing better to do and already had the tools to do so).

I will likely load 10 rounds per charge and chrono them (MagnetoSpeed v3).

 

[jLorenzo]

I've got 500 pieces of virgin Starline brass. Already uniformed primer pockets and deburred primer flash hole (was stuck on a several hour long conference call and had nothing better to do and already had the tools to do so).

I will likely load 10 rounds per charge and chrono them (MagnetoSpeed v3).

This may be of interest to you if you havent seen it. Simplified things for me quite a bit when it comes to figuring out COAL.

 

[capreppy]

Minor update.

I did run some initial loads. Varget 23-24. My MagnetoSpeed decided to not work with the 23gr charge, but worked fine after I beat the snot out of it for not capturing the speeds correctly (....the beatings will continue till morale improves)

24gr @ 0.010 off the lands was definitely the best for the day. SD of 12 (decent, but definitely expecting more). Velocity was 2761.

I will be loading up additional rounds at 24gr. Gonna do another 10 per round doing seating depth from 10 off the lands through 30. I'm hoping to get these to the range next week (playing hooky on Tuesday morning).

I did prep the brass (debur flashhole and uniform primer pockets). I had time while sitting on a several hour conference call so I figured I'd use it to get some brass prep done. I did NOT FL size this brass. I did run a mandrel to make sure the mouth was uniform.

 

[jLorenzo]

Minor update.

I did run some initial loads. Varget 23-24. My MagnetoSpeed decided to not work with the 23gr charge, but worked fine after I beat the snot out of it for not capturing the speeds correctly (....the beatings will continue till morale improves)

24gr @ 0.010 off the lands was definitely the best for the day. SD of 12 (decent, but definitely expecting more). Velocity was 2761.

I will be loading up additional rounds at 24gr. Gonna do another 10 per round doing seating depth from 10 off the lands through 30. I'm hoping to get these to the range next week (playing hooky on Tuesday morning).

I did prep the brass (debur flashhole and uniform primer pockets). I had time while sitting on a several hour conference call so I figured I'd use it to get some brass prep done. I did NOT FL size this brass. I did run a mandrel to make sure the mouth was uniform.

What is your COAL or CBTO?

 

[supercorndogs]

Minor update.

I did run some initial loads. Varget 23-24. My MagnetoSpeed decided to not work with the 23gr charge, but worked fine after I beat the snot out of it for not capturing the speeds correctly (....the beatings will continue till morale improves)

24gr @ 0.010 off the lands was definitely the best for the day. SD of 12 (decent, but definitely expecting more). Velocity was 2761.

I will be loading up additional rounds at 24gr. Gonna do another 10 per round doing seating depth from 10 off the lands through 30. I'm hoping to get these to the range next week (playing hooky on Tuesday morning).

I did prep the brass (debur flashhole and uniform primer pockets). I had time while sitting on a several hour conference call so I figured I'd use it to get some brass prep done. I did NOT FL size this brass. I did run a mandrel to make sure the mouth was uniform.

When was the last time you changed the batteries in your magneto?

 

[Cfshooter]

Minor update.

I did run some initial loads. Varget 23-24. My MagnetoSpeed decided to not work with the 23gr charge, but worked fine after I beat the snot out of it for not capturing the speeds correctly (....the beatings will continue till morale improves)

24gr @ 0.010 off the lands was definitely the best for the day. SD of 12 (decent, but definitely expecting more). Velocity was 2761.

I will be loading up additional rounds at 24gr. Gonna do another 10 per round doing seating depth from 10 off the lands through 30. I'm hoping to get these to the range next week (playing hooky on Tuesday morning).

I did prep the brass (debur flashhole and uniform primer pockets). I had time while sitting on a several hour conference call so I figured I'd use it to get some brass prep done. I did NOT FL size this brass. I did run a mandrel to make sure the mouth was uniform.

24 always seems to be a great number with that combo. Why did you not FL size the brass? If you want consistency, I think FL size every time will help that. SD of 12 with 223 is about what I seem to average, does not seem to be an issue out to 600 yards in matches.

 

[capreppy]

What is your COAL or CBTO?

1.970 (10 thousands off the lands

When was the last time you changed the batteries in your magneto?

I actually changed it at the beginning of the year

24 always seems to be a great number with that combo. Why did you not FL size the brass? If you want consistency, I think FL size every time will help that. SD of 12 with 223 is about what I seem to average, does not seem to be an issue out to 600 yards in matches.

It was brand new brass. Bulk packaged and was "hoping" it was in decent shape. That said, I will likely do the remaining pieces I have that are still virgin and unprimed. I agree 12 is probably acceptable, but I'm "used" to getting lower SDs on my other rifle, but that WAS bushing FL sized. I will be doing my normal routine with this brass now that it has been fired out of my rifle. I realize it may or may not be completely fireformed (some brass may need as much as 2 or 3 firings to be fireformed completely).

My normal brass prep routine:

decap
clean with SS media
anneal with AMP Annealer
FL Bushing Size with a Redding die. I have a 246 and 247 bushing. Based on my initial readings, a 246 bushing is appropriate for the Starline brass that I have. I lube with a homegrown mixture of lanolin and alcohol
clean with corn cob

 

[Cfshooter]

1.970 (10 thousands off the lands

I actually changed it at the beginning of the year

It was brand new brass. Bulk packaged and was "hoping" it was in decent shape. That said, I will likely do the remaining pieces I have that are still virgin and unprimed. I agree 12 is probably acceptable, but I'm "used" to getting lower SDs on my other rifle, but that WAS bushing FL sized. I will be doing my normal routine with this brass now that it has been fired out of my rifle. I realize it may or may not be completely fireformed (some brass may need as much as 2 or 3 firings to be fireformed completely).

My normal brass prep routine:

decap
clean with SS media
anneal with AMP Annealer
FL Bushing Size with a Redding die. I have a 246 and 247 bushing. Based on my initial readings, a 246 bushing is appropriate for the Starline brass that I have. I lube with a homegrown mixture of lanolin and alcohol
clean with corn cob

My bad, I thought that is what you did after your above session. Yes, I do the same with the new brass. At the very minimum, I run the mandrel through them all.

 

[capreppy]

Final Update. Did seating depth @ 24gr Varget. CBTO @ the lands is 1.965. I ran 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30 off the lands. I landed (for now) at 1.950 CBTO and 24gr of Varget. Mean velocity was 2,802 and SD of 9.7

I say for now because I don't think the brass is as consistent as I am used to. I'm going to load up the remaining pieces of brass and shoot these off to fire form the brass. Then I will go through my usual brass prep process to see if they are more consistent. I bought 500 pieces of Starline. The only thing I did prior to shooting was
a) open case mouths with a 21st Century black nitride expander mandrel
b) uniform primer pockets with a K&M primer pocket uniformer
c) debur flash holes with a K&M flash hole deburring tool

Once I've shot these I'll brass prep

• deprime
• clean with SS media
• anneal with an AMP annealer
• size with a Redding bushing FL sizing die (.247 bushing for Starline brass)
• clean with corn cob
• open case mouths with a 21st Century black nitride expander mandrel
• trim with a Henderson Gen 3 trimmer
• prime / charge / seat

 

[jLorenzo]

Final Update. Did seating depth @ 24gr Varget. CBTO @ the lands is 1.965. I ran 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30 off the lands. I landed (for now) at 1.950 CBTO and 24gr of Varget. Mean velocity was 2,802 and SD of 9.7

I say for now because I don't think the brass is as consistent as I am used to. I'm going to load up the remaining pieces of brass and shoot these off to fire form the brass. Then I will go through my usual brass prep process to see if they are more consistent. I bought 500 pieces of Starline. The only thing I did prior to shooting was
a) open case mouths with a 21st Century black nitride expander mandrel
b) uniform primer pockets with a K&M primer pocket uniformer
c) debur flash holes with a K&M flash hole deburring tool

Once I've shot these I'll brass prep

• deprime
• clean with SS media
• anneal with an AMP annealer
• size with a Redding bushing FL sizing die (.247 bushing for Starline brass)
• clean with corn cob
• open case mouths with a 21st Century black nitride expander mandrel
• trim with a Henderson Gen 3 trimmer
• prime / charge / seat

Sorry if you already specified, is this Starlins 223 or 5.56 brass? I think they have 2 different kinds, 5.56 being a little thicker. Just what I've heard though.

 

[capreppy]

Sorry if you already specified, is this Starlins 223 or 5.56 brass? I think they have 2 different kinds, 5.56 being a little thicker. Just what I've heard though.

Starline 223 brass. I only load to 223 pressures (precision) so I've never tinkered with 556.

 

[ma smith]

If you get down into the single digit sd's with varget, definitely post up a range report.

 

[capreppy]

If you get down into the single digit sd's with varget, definitely post up a range report.

already at 9.7, but this is during fire forming. I believe these will go down after fire forming and brass prep for the next round.

 

[MarkyMark007]

Did seating depth ... I ran 10, 15, 20, 25, and 30 off the lands...

 

[Heffo]

I’ve had multiple 223s running 77SMKs. Favourite load 23.6 2206H(H4895) and 24.0 Varget. Either Lapua or ADI/osa brass.

 

[beetroot]

I’ve had multiple 223s running 77SMKs. Favourite load 23.6 2206H(H4895) and 24.0 Varget. Either Lapua or ADI/osa brass.

What’s the FPS of each load? I;m guessing the 2206H is a little faster?

Have you tried ADI BM2 with the 77SMKs?
Everything I’ve read suggests it’s too fast burning but I’d to avoid buying another powder if I can.

 

[Heffo]

What’s the FPS of each load? I;m guessing the 2206H is a little faster?

Have you tried ADI BM2 with the 77SMKs?
Everything I’ve read suggests it’s too fast burning but I’d to avoid buying another powder if I can.

I haven't tried BM2 mate. Have some 8208 which works. All Have only been 16-18" barrels so current barrel is 18" and spits out the 77s at 2760fps....plenty for my needs. 2206H is a bit faster yep. Cheers.

 

[sheepdog697]

Im about to do the same, but they will be loaded to mag length shot out of a JP 16" AR. Planning on running from 23-24grs (varget). I just got 500 in the mail so once i shoot these i can report back as well. My initial research showed a lot of promise out of 24grs as others have mentioned. Im hoping to get in the 2600s with the 16" barrel

Good info in this thread so far.