Rifle Scopes 2k budget for PRS scope

[Sbeatty1983]

Looking into starting PRS shooting this spring. Sold the Bushnell elite tactical MOA sfp scope that was on my rifle and need a FFP mil scope to replace it. Budget is 2kish and I don't mind a used scope. Have been watching reviews on razor hd2 and AMG and us optics, Kahles, and steiner. Information overload has me more confused than ever. I've found a couple of used USO er25s in my price range and one of the local gun stores has an amg for 2200ish. What are most prs shooters using in that range currently?

 

[Mordamer]

The most common scope I see at competitions are Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56. These regularly go for around $1900 in great shape on here in the personal exchange section. I have seen a couple in like new condition go for as low as $1800 in the last few months. I have also seen Nightforce F1 5-25x56 go for just a hair over $2000 and Kahles 624i's as well. These seem to be the most common scopes used by the best shooters in PRS. There are dozens of excellent scopes in your price range. The biggest challenge is to buy one and be content. It is tempting to swap scopes all the time, but once you get to the $2,000 price range you will be getting excellent glass and good mechanics in almost any of the scopes. Good luck.

 

[Kadams1563]

I use a Vortex Razor Gen II.

In that price range it’s ptobably the top scope. Tough as nails and great turrets. Every shoot I go to looks like a Vortex commercial.

I would say more then 80% of shooters will be running a Razor at least at my local PRS match.

 

[OH58DViper]

Another vote for the RZR. I’ve sold 2 of them in the last month for under 2K and both were like new. I’m tryin an AMG out right now and it’s looking like a scope I can be content with.

 

[wareagle700]

Yep. Razor Gen II

Put a WTB listing up in the optics section and you will get bombarded with offers.

 

[NewsShooter]

Athlon Cronus BTR for a lot less than 2K?

 

[Sbeatty1983]

Yep. Razor Gen II

Put a WTB listing up in the optics section and you will get bombarded with offers.

I plan on doing that but I won't have my full budget until payday on Friday, so I'm going to wait till then

 

[Rob01]

Yup the Razor II is the one to look at. Even the 3-18x would be a good choice.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

The Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56 - APLR FFP IR in your choice of MOA or MIL is an excellent choice and basically is a parallel product to the Vortex with a street price of $700.00 less. Please call to discuss your SH member pricing.

You can also look at the Steiner T5Xi Tactical 5-25x56 - SCR

Please feel free to give a call, 516-217-1000, to discuss what would be best for you and your SH member pricing

 

[beaverpelt]

The Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56 - APLR FFP IR in your choice of MOA or MIL is an excellent choice and basically is a parallel product to the Vortex with a street price of $700.00 less. Please call to discuss your SH member pricing.

You can also look at the Steiner T5Xi Tactical 5-25x56 - SCR

Please feel free to give a call, 516-217-1000, to discuss what would be best for you and your SH member pricing

How does the Steiner T5Xi compare to a Vortex AMG?

 

[gr8fuldoug]

"How does the Steiner T5Xi compare to a Vortex AMG?"

The Steiner is German Optics that are assembled here in the USA. IMO, there is no comparison in quality to the Vortex or the Athlon or really any of the Pacific Rim offerings.
The Steiner will be optically superior and overall build quality will be better.

 

[308pirate]

I thought the Vortex Razors, including the Razor AMG, were made in the US. Am I mistaken, in part or in whole?

 

[beaverpelt]

I thought the Vortex Razors, including the Razor AMG, were made in the US. Am I mistaken, in part or in whole?

I thought just the AMG was made in US

 

[TheOE800]

AMG scopes are made here, though reticle is etched in Germany.

 

[scotty2hotty]

"How does the Steiner T5Xi compare to a Vortex AMG?"

The Steiner is German Optics that are assembled here in the USA. IMO, there is no comparison in quality to the Vortex or the Athlon or really any of the Pacific Rim offerings.
The Steiner will be optically superior and overall build quality will be better.

Yea the Steiner is really nice just sold a 3-15 and am looking at the 5-25 or the new ZCO

 

[beaverpelt]

Yea the Steiner is really nice just sold a 3-15 and am looking at the 5-25 or the new ZCO

I've read of issues with T5Xi line but have no personal experience with them. So are they GTG? I'd be interested in the 5-25 T5Xi.

 

[Triple D]

"How does the Steiner T5Xi compare to a Vortex AMG?"

The Steiner is German Optics that are assembled here in the USA. IMO, there is no comparison in quality to the Vortex or the Athlon or really any of the Pacific Rim offerings.
The Steiner will be optically superior and overall build quality will be better.

So, you’re saying the T5Xi is better optically than the AMG? I’ve heard that the M5 was on par, but never the T5Xi.

 

[morganlamprecht]

you couldnt give me 5 t5xi's for one gen 2 razor or AMG...i own/have owned all 3...ive compared multiple examples of each one

"optically superior" based on what?? a set of blind eyes?

the t5xi's have nice turrets and cool flip window rev indicator...thats it

 

[Sbeatty1983]

The Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56 - APLR FFP IR in your choice of MOA or MIL is an excellent choice and basically is a parallel product to the Vortex with a street price of $700.00 less. Please call to discuss your SH member pricing.

You can also look at the Steiner T5Xi Tactical 5-25x56 - SCR

Please feel free to give a call, 516-217-1000, to discuss what would be best for you and your SH member pricing

I have been looking at that steiner as well

 

[Glassaholic]

you couldnt give me 5 t5xi's for one gen 2 razor or AMG...i own/have owned all 3...ive compared multiple examples of each one

"optically superior" based on what?? a set of blind eyes?

the t5xi's have nice turrets and cool flip window rev indicator...thats it

I usually don't like ripping on manufacturers but I would have to agree with Morgan here, as the T5Xi is not optically superior to any scope in its price range, in fact I'd even say the Burris XTR II 5-25 is a better scope than the more expensive T5Xi (both made by the same parent company). I was one of the early adopters of the Steiner T5Xi because I bought into the marketing hype and I loved the design of the turrets and SCR reticle and the promise of German glass. I can tell you having had both the 5-25 and the 3-15 that the SCR reticle and the "look" of the turrets was about the only thing good on this scope. Both scopes suffered from horrific CA (chromatic aberration) that was worse than other scopes that cost much less. There were numerous threads on the old scout Hide site talking about how bad the tracking was on the T5Xi, Steiner denied this for months saying nothing was wrong with these scopes but then later on admitted there was an issue and offered owners to send in their scopes for a fix. Killswitch from the old site used to have a thread for a bunch of scopes he tested on his "humbler" and even the "fixed" Steiner T5Xi's had issues as I recall. I have some give for a company that has a few issues with early versions of scopes; however, they way Steiner handled this situations has me questioning their integrity. For this reason I would have a very difficult time investing in a scope from Steiner even if they came out with a new line, that being said the M5 series has a long history of being a bulletproof scope with great optics and tracking. I know my words are a bit harsh but here are the simple facts - did Steiner deny that anything was wrong with the tracking of the T5Xi? Yes they did. Did Steiner then, at a later time, admit there was something wrong and offer to fix early versions of the scope? Yes they did. I suppose you could argue that their engineers couldn't find the issue until later, but the fact the tracking issues were well documented and reported by owners tells me the engineers didn't know how to address the issue or decided to ignore the issue and hoped it would go away. This along with the fact that the T5Xi uses the worst German glass I've looked through (and worse than a lot of Japanese glass as well) keeps me clear of the Steiner T5Xi scopes, it's one thing to fix a mechanical issue, but its quite another to fix an optical formula. I also realize there are many "happy" Steiner T5Xi owners out there who swear by their scopes and maybe they are some of the lucky ones, but this scope is too risky of a pick in my view which is why I cannot recommend it. For a couple hundred more the Vortex AMG crushes the Steiner T5Xi in overall glass quality, the EBR-7 is a great reticle and the turrets are very nice. While I have no experience at all with the Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56, like many others have mentioned this has been the "go to" scope for PRS over the past couple years. USO used to be highly recommended on the Hide a number of years ago and not sure what happened, most likely competition with smaller, lighter scopes, the USO's are baseball bats in comparison, but they have great glass and reticles with solid mechanics.

 

[DrainTheSwamp]

My eyes didn’t think the gen ii Glass was anything great went with atacr 5-25. Will maybe be switching to zco.

 

[scotty2hotty]

I've read of issues with T5Xi line but have no personal experience with them. So are they GTG? I'd be interested in the 5-25 T5Xi.

Newer ones with up graded turrents are good. Mine didn't have any issues if it did they have lifetime warrany no questions asked.

 

[beaverpelt]

Newer ones with up graded turrents are good. Mine didn't have any issues if it did they have lifetime warrany no questions asked.

What scope can you compare the glass too

 

[Rob01]

you couldnt give me 5 t5xi's for one gen 2 razor or AMG...i own/have owned all 3...ive compared multiple examples of each one

"optically superior" based on what?? a set of blind eyes?

the t5xi's have nice turrets and cool flip window rev indicator...thats it

He doesn't sell Vortex anymore so take that into account. I agree with you by the way.

The AMG is made in the USA. The Razor II are made in Japan and then then taken apart and reassembkled here in the US with Vortex proprietary knobs.

 

[5RWill]

So, you’re saying the T5Xi is better optically than the AMG? I’ve heard that the M5 was on par, but never the T5Xi.

Same i've not seen a single indication that the T5s are anywhere near a razor AMG or gen II in any category other than weight being less. The T5Xi have a pretty bad rep for horrid tracking.

 

[Glassaholic]

The Razor II are made in Japan and then then taken apart and reassembled here in the US with Vortex proprietary knobs.

I had not heard this before Rob, didn't realized they switched turrets after arrival in the USA, I wonder why they didn't like the turrets from LOW. Not a big deal but just interesting that this is what Vortex does with these scopes.

 

[Rob01]

I had not heard this before Rob, didn't realized they switched turrets after arrival in the USA, I wonder why they didn't like the turrets from LOW. Not a big deal but just interesting that this is what Vortex does with these scopes.

Frank did a video on his video to Vortex that shows the scopes disassembled in their clean room. Vortex knobs are better than anything LOW puts out so they want to give their customers that better product of theirs. They don't want it getting easily stolen so they do it themselves.

 

[Glassaholic]

Frank did a video on his video to Vortex that shows the scopes disassembled in their clean room. Vortex knobs are better than anything LOW puts out so they want to give their customers that better product of theirs. They don't want it getting easily stolen so they do it themselves.

Thank you Rob, I do recall something about that in the video now, you have a very good memory sir.

 

[Triple D]

He doesn't sell Vortex anymore so take that into account.

Be that as it may, putting out that kind of info will likely result in expectations that won’t be met and perhaps some dissatisfied customers. Not the business model that I’d go with, but hey, I’m just a consumer.

 

[Sheldon N]

Looking into starting PRS shooting this spring. Sold the Bushnell elite tactical MOA sfp scope that was on my rifle and need a FFP mil scope to replace it. Budget is 2kish and I don't mind a used scope. Have been watching reviews on razor hd2 and AMG and us optics, Kahles, and steiner. Information overload has me more confused than ever. I've found a couple of used USO er25s in my price range and one of the local gun stores has an amg for 2200ish. What are most prs shooters using in that range currently?

As to what PRS shooters are using, here's the results of the gear survey from the PRS finale a couple months ago, this is the top 100 shooters in the country. It's just brands but you can assume the majority are Vortex Gen II Razor 4.5-27, Kahles 624i 6-24, Nightforce ATACR F1 (either 5-25 or 7-35), S+B PM II 5-25, etc.

As to what I'd be looking at in the $2k ish price range, a S+B PM II 5-25 can be a very good value and has excellent glass. Last three that I've picked up have been $2300ish. Kahles 624i is a great scope at a similar price and I've owned one before, I think the glass is a bit better on the S+B.. Nightforce ATACR is excellent and I'd love a 7-35 Mil-C but those are closer to $3k. Vortex Gen II razor is a solid safe choice and can be had around $1900 used, if $2300 is too high.

Overall no bad choices in that list.

 

[JohnDeereGuy1996]

The Steiner tactical series was fixed a long time ago. It's been proven over and over that the new turrets track correctly. Did Steiner handle the situation properly at first? No they didn't.

With that said I've seen plenty of horror stories involving the vortex razor also. That doesn't make it a bad line because it isn't. People tend to recommend what they have. I love the Steiner t5 5-25 and that's what I would reccomend, but wouldn't feel bad about a vortex one bit.

 

[Dr59860]

The Steiner tactical series was fixed a long time ago. It's been proven over and over that the new turrets track correctly. Did Steiner handle the situation properly at first? No they didn't.

With that said I've seen plenty of horror stories involving the vortex razor also. That doesn't make it a bad line because it isn't. People tend to recommend what they have. I love the Steiner t5 5-25 and that's what I would reccomend, but wouldn't feel bad about a vortex one bit.

How bad can the horror stories be with a lifetime transferable, no questions asked replacement warranty? Just asking...

 

[JohnDeereGuy1996]

How bad can the horror stories be with a lifetime transferable, no questions asked replacement warranty? Just asking...

Did you even read what I said? By the way both companies have lifetime transferable warranty. The best warranty is the one you don't have to use though.

 

[Dr59860]

I'm asking...how bad are the stories? I haven't heard any...a few issues, but nothing that wasn't fixed with a new scope. I'm curious how Vortex would handle a horror story...like so and so had a scope stop tracking at such and such competition, or a scope fogged up on a $5K guided hunt. I don't doubt what you say, I just want to hear the details...I'm not calling you a liar

 

[V-Ref]

As to what PRS shooters are using, here's the results of the gear survey from the PRS finale a couple months ago, this is the top 100 shooters in the country. It's just brands but you can assume the majority are Vortex Gen II Razor 4.5-27, Kahles 624i 6-24, Nightforce ATACR F1 (either 5-25 or 7-35), S+B PM II 5-25, etc.

As to what I'd be looking at in the $2k ish price range, a S+B PM II 5-25 can be a very good value and has excellent glass. Last three that I've picked up have been $2300ish. Kahles 624i is a great scope at a similar price and I've owned one before, I think the glass is a bit better on the S+B.. Nightforce ATACR is excellent and I'd love a 7-35 Mil-C but those are closer to $3k. Vortex Gen II razor is a solid safe choice and can be had around $1900 used, if $2300 is too high.

Overall no bad choices in that list.

Kahles sure did put whooping on the market share of Nightforce, and S&B in this graph, and even pressure Vortex some.. Good on them to have vision(no pun) and leadership to be attentive to the PRS market. With the new ZCO offerings likely to splinter the high end market.... and if the new MK5HD proves out (ready for the flaming canon balls) priced right at the Gen2 and Gen2 minus segment....., I wonder how this will look for 2018...if folks will change mid season.

 

[V-Ref]

I'm asking...how bad are the stories? I haven't heard any...a few issues, but nothing that wasn't fixed with a new scope. I'm curious how Vortex would handle a horror story...like so and so had a scope stop tracking at such and such competition, or a scope fogged up on a $5K guided hunt. I don't doubt what you say, I just want to hear the details...I'm not calling you a liar

Let me just throw this out there....and recommend you attempt to call the manufacturers your considering, tell them your in the market for a high end competition level optic, and ask them what customer expectations are if you were to encounter an issue. The spectrum of responses I received was quite revealing, as one has yet to call back (several months now).

They will all break, but there's certainly value in reputations for bullet proof/tough designs, as nobody wants (manufacturer or customer) to use the warranty/support process.

 

[Rob01]

The best warranty is the one you don't have to use though.

Until you need it. Always cool to say that but when you do find the need it's good to have the support. The part of the Vortex warranty people forget is the accidental damage part. Drop the rifle out of a tree stand? Covered. Accidentally have it fall off your bench? Covered. Have a house fire? Covered. Nice to not need a warranty but if you do Vortex has about the best around.

That said, there have been no horror stories with the Razor II scopes. Have there been issues? Yup like any of the ones listed in the pie chart but nothing major or not easily fixed in a short time and a very small percentage of the scopes out there.

 

[NewsShooter]

Until you need it. Always cool to say that but when you do find the need it's good to have the support. The part of the Vortex warranty people forget is the accidental damage part. Drop the rifle out of a tree stand? Covered. Accidentally have it fall off your bench? Covered. Have a house fire? Covered. Nice to not need a warranty but if you do Vortex has about the best around.

That said, there have been no horror stories with the Razor II scopes. Have there been issues? Yup like any of the ones listed in the pie chart but nothing major or not easily fixed in a short time and a very small percentage of the scopes out there.

Yup, loaned my buddy a PST, he overtightened the rings and damaged the tube, I called Vortex to see what it would cost to fix it, they said send it in and we'll fix it. Got a new scope back four days later.

 

[JohnDeereGuy1996]

Until you need it. Always cool to say that but when you do find the need it's good to have the support. The part of the Vortex warranty people forget is the accidental damage part. Drop the rifle out of a tree stand? Covered. Accidentally have it fall off your bench? Covered. Have a house fire? Covered. Nice to not need a warranty but if you do Vortex has about the best around.

That said, there have been no horror stories with the Razor II scopes. Have there been issues? Yup like any of the ones listed in the pie chart but nothing major or not easily fixed in a short time and a very small percentage of the scopes out there.

I think you guys are misinterpreting what I meant. I have nothing against vortex and have personally used there first class warranty. By horror stories I mean I've seen post where people's have failed at a match or something similar. The reason I even mentioned it was to just say that all scopes can fail. Absolutely no horror when it comes to vortex taking care of you. They are a solid company.

 

[KYAggie]

Sheldon thanks for the chart of the scope choices of the top 100 PRS shooters! Any chance there is a similar chart showing what the Production Class scope choices are? I wonder how many are using the Athlon Cronus BTR in that class. I keep hearing that it's the "best" choice for under $2000, but I have not gotten my hands on one yet to see for myself. I have looked through the Vortex AMG and Kahles 624i; both really nice but only around $2000 if purchased used. I'm in the same market and have narrowed it down to buying a used Vortex AMG (Gen2 Razor is too heavy), Kahles 624i, NF ATACR, or a new Athlon Cronus BTR..........wish I could line them all up and look through them side by side! Reliable tracking is very important to me as well as glass that superior to the Burris XTR II which was not impressive when I looked through one at SWFA. I wish SWFA would come out with a SKMR3 type reticle in their HD line as they have nice glass and reliable tracking, but so far they have not. Their scopes will become as dusty as Leupold's if they don't update their reticles.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

There are used Minox ZP5's with MR4 reticle going for 2k right here on the hide - if I lived stateside that's the route I'd be going.

 

[Sheldon N]

Sheldon thanks for the chart of the scope choices of the top 100 PRS shooters! Any chance there is a similar chart showing what the Production Class scope choices are? I wonder how many are using the Athlon Cronus BTR in that class.

I don't believe there is a chart for that. The production class is not nearly as popular and I think there were only a couple of production shooters at the PRS Finale.

 

[KYAggie]

I forgot about a used Minox ZP5; definitely need to put that on the list. Thanks!

 

[steve123]

Athlon's 2018 retail price for the Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56 is 1999.99 so it'd be a fantastic choice for production division and a great choice anyway.

Jaclyn Bryan likes it and used other Athlon scopes last year to win production. I had fun swapping stories with her at SHOT, she has quite the strategic mind set for winning complicated stages! Nice down to earth person as well.

 

[morganlamprecht]

There are used Minox ZP5's with MR4 reticle going for 2k right here on the hide - if I lived stateside that's the route I'd be going.

A zp5 @ $2k is a hell of a deal

 

[TheOE800]

A zp5 @ $2k is a hell of a deal

Seriously. Did retail come down or is there a new flavor of the month scope I should be trading my ZP5 for?

 

[KWilson]

you couldnt give me 5 t5xi's for one gen 2 razor or AMG...i own/have owned all 3...ive compared multiple examples of each one

"optically superior" based on what?? a set of blind eyes?

the t5xi's have nice turrets and cool flip window rev indicator...thats it

I agree. Looked closely at the TX model as I like the low profile turrets, decent feature set including the reticle but in the end I went with an AMG. There's no way the glass on the Steiner outperforms the AMG. Based on Frank's previous visit to the Vortex factory and watching how the AMG is made, I'd wager the internals on the Vortex are a step too.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

The Mark 5 Leupold might be worth a look. It's right around $2000.

 

[mpk1996]

for $2k I would get either the Kahles k624i (def a gen2 in that range, gen3 is going to run 2300-2400 used) or a vortex razor genii. they can def be had for 2k and under new or used. might just have to call around. I would look at what reticles you like. in the gen2 kahles, I would look at the AMR or MSR reticle. really both are great scopes, I would just see if you like the parallax adj on top or in the more traditional left side (vortex). also if weight is a concern, the kahles is pretty light in this class of scope, where the vortex is the heaviest in this class of scope. in the end, the reticle you like should be more of a determining factor

 

[precisionrifleman]

if I want to run production class, is the scope suppose to be $2k and under msrp and not resale value?!