3 gun recoil question.

[gunsnjeeps]

I know go to a 3 gun board.

For an AR15 and M193, is it possible to get decent recoil reduction, what little recoil there is, by removing the buffer weights and using an adjustable gas block? It is a 16 inch barrel with a midlength gas system with A2 birdcage and milspec (not commercial) carbine buffer and tube.

I've also thought about captive spring systems to replace the buffer and springs. I'm not on a tight budget but I'm trying not to spend $500.

Any combos that some one likes will be considered.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Yes, with a light carrier. With a full mass carrier an empty buffer will be very snappy/harsh.

A good muzzle brake will be the biggest return on investment though.

 

[CATM15]

A decent muzzle break will cut down the “felt” recoil by a considerable amount. A captured spring will help with a smooth operation but I haven’t noticed a recoil difference. I bought the capture spring for shooting suppressed. (Sounds like a spoon over a cheese grater with the buffer and spring). As far as other methods of recoil reduction that weapon is designed to “soak up” most of the recoil. You can mess around with carriers, gas blocks, buffers but you will be running that gun hard and I would hate to give up reliability for a little less recoil. My advice is get the best muzzle break and a kick ass trigger.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

So the weight out of one does make a difference in the scheme of things. I read an article that considered BCG and Buffer weight as a single unit. Brownells has a light BCG at $110 which isn't a deal breaker, $120 if I pimp it out with TiN.

Compensators are an area I haven't looked at much.

 

[Milo 2.5]

You cannot argue with what JP did with silent capture spring and buffer system, combined with there low moss bolt and carrier. It'd eat over 500 quick.
I think the most gains could be made by spring-buffer, along with a tuned load, no reason to shoot 2990fps ammo when 2500fps does the trick, not that I know what speeds M193 produces.
I am assuming you are looking for double tap repeatability over actual recoil.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

The trigger is surprisingly good already.

My ammo choice is based on Wolf 55FMJ, I can buy it for the same price as reloading it. It's kind of like free brass. The rifle and ammo combo give me low 90's in NRA rapid fire sitting or prone, and good slow fire at 100 yards on reduced targets.

I guess double tap repeatability is a better description. I've shot a couple of tuned rifles that feel like they don't move but they were fairly expensive builds.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I read an article that considered BCG and Buffer weight as a single unit. Brownells has a light BCG at $110 which isn't a deal breaker, $120 if I pimp it out with TiN.

Compensators are an area I haven't looked at much.

Thats what I thought but some testing with gutted buffers and full mass components showed me otherwise.

That Brownells BCG is made by Toolcraft, I have one and I'm impressed for the price.

Seriously though, 70% of your recoil reduction will come from a brake that costs less than $150. Spending twice that to chase the other 30% first is kinda backwards.

 

[Magnumitis]

Which brakes are preferred for 16" mid length and 18" rifle length 5.56?

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Rethought the math on ammo. Not free brass, $260 a 1000 to buy, $190 to load the same load in used brass. My 77SMK load is 27 cents a round.

 

[Magnumitis]

Thats what I thought but some testing with gutted buffers and full mass components showed me otherwise.

That Brownells BCG is made by Toolcraft, I have one and I'm impressed for the price.

Seriously though, 70% of your recoil reduction will come from a brake that costs less than $150. Spending twice that to chase the other 30% first is kinda backwards.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Which brakes are preferred for 16" mid length and 18" rifle length 5.56?

Ask 10 people and you'll get 10 different answers. As long as you get a dedicated brake, not a brake/flash hider combo, you'll be miles ahead of a birdcage.
Really any of the big name brakes you see will work great, they're all within a few efficiency percentage points of each other.

The old school ones still work, DPMS Miculek, Rolling Thunder, SJC Titan, JP 2 port.

The common last gen ones like the Seekins ATC, PA M4-72, JP 3 port, Lantac Dragon are all still great.

I'm a gear whore so I'm eyeballing newest brakes like the APA Answer, Ultradyne Apollo and PA Hypertap these days.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Rethought the math on ammo. Not free brass, $260 a 1000 to buy, $190 to load the same load in used brass. My 77SMK load is 27 cents a round.

Yeah I thought maybe you had a fancier bullet in mind when you said that. My 55gr blaster load is $175-190 per 1k depending on quantities ordered.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

I have a "spent" barrel A2 upper that I shoot for 100 yard matches that the Wolf ammo shoots well in. In my scoped match rifle it holds the 9 ring on a reduced 300 rapid and 8 ring on a reduced 600 yard. Probably holds better than I shoot to be honest, my handloads didn't shoot much better but I was shooting more often.

The Wolf brass is consistent enough to load for 600 yards.

Some of the Navy Action shooters also say the DPMS Miculek Compensator is a good place to start.

 

[Milo 2.5]

The trigger is surprisingly good already.


I guess double tap repeatability is a better description. I've shot a couple of tuned rifles that feel like they don't move but they were fairly expensive builds.

I'm no raging 3 gunner, lol. A lot of gains to made in smooth cycling, bolt not hammering back or forward. The brake knocks down muzzle hop and felt recoil, but the operating system(smooth) brings you back to same point of aim.
I got into shooting pcc's a couple of yrs ago, my JP with sheer weight and smoothness just rocks. But I bought a couple 8" Sig Mpx's, gas system, no buffer, so somewhat smooth, I played with brakes on them and it really helped. But a pistol rd nothing like a 223, and most brakes available were rifle port style. I found a couple that after butchering, leaving one giant top port clocked at around 12:30 to 1 O'clock really captured the gas and it returned to POA almost automatically, for ultra quick side by side double taps.
But this shit is a journey, the first mpx brake had a smaller port, and my 124gr ammo was a match. The 2nd one had a huge port, and when I fired my 124gr stuff, it flat out sucked until it dawned on me that more gas was needed and most 115gr ammo will produce it.
So my advise is to talk to the owners of the tuned guns you shot and follow their lead, because you could end up going down rabbit hole, a very fruitless one. If indeed we are talking about the same thing.