30-06 still relevant?

[lash]

Because, for a 30-06 owner, 2 boxes of "the deadliest mushrooms in the woods" are a lifetime supply...

Some of us don’t have as much of a problem with recoil as you do. I will shoot my stock Remington Long Range .30-06 for 50 rounds during a long range session out to 1000 yards. It is no heavy beast gun and yet I have no issue.

I will shoot my savage 110 LRP .338 LM for 60 or so rounds during an ELR session with extra heavy loads. No recoil pads or other enhancements. It is great fun.

Would I try and shoot either in a PRS match? No. Why would I handicap myself like that?

I do love that ‘06 though. It is a fun and capable round.

 

[cornhusker86]

Didn't he draw regular rounds from the armory during this shoot? And I believe the shooters all took a collection and bought this rifle from the Govt to give to him.... indeed, this is an awesome story.

Frankford Arsenal Tin Plate;
bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2017/07/legends-of-camp-perry-george-farrs-71-consecutive-bullseyes/

 

[pmclaine]

I'll just leave this here;

View attachment 7044318

Note the O'Hare sight micrometer attached to the rear sight leaf.

Accurate elevation changes are next to impossible without an O'hare micrometer.

This is a repro I bought a while ago that I dont think is made anymore.

Its Ebay now for older vintage ones most of which usually carry a US mil inventory mark.

 

[cornhusker86]

Note the O'Hare sight micrometer attached to the rear sight leaf.

Accurate elevation changes are next to impossible without an O'hare micrometer.

View attachment 7044407

This is a repro I bought a while ago that I dont think is made anymore.

Its Ebay now for older vintage ones most of which usually carry a US mil inventory mark.

Just out of curiosity, does the sight move under recoil? Seems to me with that much weight on the hinge it might fold down under recoil.

 

[pmclaine]

Just out of curiosity, does the sight move under recoil? Seems to me with that much weight on the hinge it might fold down under recoil.

No not at all.

If you are assuming the brass Ohare stays on there during firing thats an easy enough mistake to make but thats not what happens.

You attach the Ohare, make your adjustment (1/4 MOA per click) than remove the Ohare and fire.

There is a pretty good spring under the sight leaf that keeps it standing tall.

The mechanism can get sloppy from hard use and usually peening or replacing a spring will keep it serviceable..

 

[cornhusker86]

That explains it. I didn't realize it was removed for firing. Thanks.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

If I recall, we drew first relay at Woody's and the first stage was almost at Sunrise. We couldn't see the targets..., but the last 4 stages were all top 4 rankings and we finished Top 10... would have been Top 5 if we could have seen what we were shooting at.

Anyway, I don't think I will ever see what I saw with any rifle, any caliber than this 30-06. A truly harmonically incomparable piece of 30 caliber goodness.

A few of our stages were top ten, our overall ranking was in the 20's, we did better than 2/3rds of the field. We ranked like 48 on stage 1....no excuses, we just didn't "bring the stuff". We were top 5 on stage 5. That's the best I can remember it.....and my tater is still pretty solid.

Some of the funniest, funnest times went on at those matches we shot. I miss it, and should have soaked it all up a bit better.

Stage 1, I was out, still trying to find targets too close to be confounding the mighty Chikn. I was single feeding, cause it was faster than loading up the integral box. Somewhere behind the rail, Jaybird says, "Is Joe shooting a single shot?"
Jimmy says,"He is now."
I think I may have made the statement I'd only need 7 rounds...maybe...probably said that.

 

[Strykervet]

Technically it's kinda obsolete --size vs. performance and the rim. .308 is smaller and feeds better, pick your magnum of choice for better performance. But considering half the damn rifles on the planet are chambered in it, I guess it'll be around for a while yet.

Really it comes down to what performance you get vs. how much that round costs. It's still cheaper than any wildcat or cartridge that isn't widely in use. But as time goes on and less rifles are chambered for it, yeah, it'll go obsolete like Sharps, etc.

That's my take.

 

[pmclaine]

30-06......because when the brass finally tires you can cut them down and make some brass for your .45 ACP to continue the fight.

 

[GhostFace]

I think the ‘06 bridges the gap that exists when you need something more then .308/6.5, it gets in the lower end of the WM with less recoil. With bullets in the high .6s and a couple at .7 BC that’s better then the Creedmoor, while having better barrel life then 6.5 or the WM. What’s not to like with that? I’ll say not every shooting scenario is a PRS event, so to discount any caliber regardless of how accurate it is kind of ludicrous in my view. But to each their own....

 

[FarSighted]

I'm glad someone brought up German Salazar. He is one of the few resources I've read about using the 30-06 for a match rifle. He was successful and compared it against an identical 308 match rifle as well as a 6XC. Unfortunately his blog Riflemans Journal is no longer on the web, but you can search for his name and get articles presented on other sites. He would probably argue for the effectiveness of the -06 but seemed like a practical guy who would probably not keep competing with it. His information on loads was excellent.

 

[VSP968]

I guess I’m kinda’ late to the party...
About a dozen years ago, two pretty well respected members here began to post their 30-06 ballistic performance at long ranges with modern powders and projectiles.

One was MontanaMarine and the other was USSR. I don’t see either of them here anymore. Maybe they both skipped the Scout thing; I know I did.

I was intrigued at the prospect of getting 300WM performance without the barrel wear. But more on that in a minute....

So I found a R700 donor action and a Shillen select 10 twist and had my smith build me a 30-06 barreled action that went into an AICS 1.5. This rifle was chambered with a match reamer that was optimized for 190SMKs. I had 400 Lake City M72 match cases and began load development.

This thing shot everything well but two loads stood out: 208 Amaxs over 60gr of RL22 and 155gr Lapua Scenars over H4895. The 208s ran about 2760fps or 29.5 MOA to a thousand yards. This was a very compressed load due to the chamber dimensions. The Scenars ran a whopping 3250fps and were 26.0 MOA to a thousand. The 208s ran well enough for me to place fifth in an F class match at Quantico on a really windy October day .

I only shot the 155s at 1K when the wind was relatively calm at Quantico which was a lot the following summer. I continued to smack my 15x25 IPSA target at a grand with the 155 Scenars until one day at about 1800 rounds the accuracy dropped off dramatically and the barrel was done.

So I put the rifle aside for awhile.

Last year I got a 10 twist Mike Rock and a German Salazar Serengeti reamer and gave my worn out barreled action to a 2112 at PWS and started over.

No more Lapua Scenars running 3250fps.

Now I’m running 208ELDMs over RL17 in Win cases and 210SMKs over RL22. Both run about 2750 and are both 29.5 MOA to a thousand on Range 4 Quantico. At least they were last Sunday in 38F weather.

And I’ve staged my stuff to go tomorrow....

 

[GhostFace]

VSP, what the barrel length on that?

 

[VSP968]

23 inch finished length. M40 contour. Badger FTE brake.

Edited to add: if a 9.5 twist barrel had been available at the time, I prolly would have gone that way.

 

[Liberator52]

Awesome rifle ! Thanks for posting !

 

[lash]

I guess I’m kinda’ late to the party...
About a dozen years ago, two pretty well respected members here began to post their 30-06 ballistic performance at long ranges with modern powders and projectiles.

One was MontanaMarine and the other was USSR. I don’t see either of them here anymore. Maybe they both skipped the Scout thing; I know I did.

I was intrigued at the prospect of getting 300WM performance without the barrel wear. But more on that in a minute....

So I found a R700 donor action and a Shillen select 10 twist and had my smith build me a 30-06 barreled action that went into an AICS 1.5. This rifle was chambered with a match reamer that was optimized for 190SMKs. I had 400 Lake City M72 match cases and began load development.

This thing shot everything well but two loads stood out: 208 Amaxs over 60gr of RL22 and 155gr Lapua Scenars over H4895. The 208s ran about 2760fps or 29.5 MOA to a thousand yards. This was a very compressed load due to the chamber dimensions. The Scenars ran a whopping 3250fps and were 26.0 MOA to a thousand. The 208s ran well enough for me to place fifth in an F class match at Quantico on a really windy October day .

I only shot the 155s at 1K when the wind was relatively calm at Quantico which was a lot the following summer. I continued to smack my 15x25 IPSA target at a grand with the 155 Scenars until one day at about 1800 rounds the accuracy dropped off dramatically and the barrel was done.

So I put the rifle aside for awhile.

Last year I got a 10 twist Mike Rock and a German Salazar Serengeti reamer and gave my worn out barreled action to a 2112 at PWS and started over.

No more Lapua Scenars running 3250fps.

Now I’m running 208ELDMs over RL17 in Win cases and 210SMKs over RL22. Both run about 2750 and are both 29.5 MOA to a thousand on Range 4 Quantico. At least they were last Sunday in 38F weather.

And I’ve staged my stuff to go tomorrow....

View attachment 7047844

View attachment 7047845

Great post! I was one of those that read through the posts by @MontanaMarine etal and got my desire for a .30-06 back. I picked up a 700 long range in ‘06 and have 100 rounds of Creedmoor branded 167g loads that I got for an excellent price. It’s a mild load for garands, but comes in nice Lapua brass for me to reload.

I’m quite interested in the 208 load you are using and will probably work up something along those lines for it this summer. Thanks for your input.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

"Ain't many problems that a man can't fix, with seven hundred dollars and a thirty-ought-six" (or something to that effect). - Attributed to Jeff Cooper.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Because, for a 30-06 owner, 2 boxes of "the deadliest mushrooms in the woods" are a lifetime supply...

Mebbe so, but I'm about 2/3 of the way though my current project producing 800rd of M2 Ball equivalent in 8rd Enbloc clips. 200 more rounds due up on the Dillon today.

Hornady brass, CCI-400, Hornady 150gr FMJBT W/C, 50.0gr of IMR-4064. Ammogarand Clips, M-1923 belts, and six pocket repro bandoliers. The whole enchilada.

I am a wimpy, scrawny, shrunk down 155lb Elder Fart, and recoil is not my cuppa tea.

But my Garand..., I'll shoot it plenty, whatever it takes.

Greg

 

[MontanaMarine]

VSP968, that's a fantastic 30-06!

I'm still here, but not contributing as much as I used to. Mostly just looking at the Motivational Pictures Thread.

Yeah, the Scout thing was kind of weird, I pretty much stayed off the forum during that time.

 

[VSP968]

I actually read back through the entire thread after I posted and then saw you had posted earlier.

Good to see you’re still kickin’ around!

I’m blaming you for the 155 Scenars, Hahahahahaha.

 

[DRAGON64]

I have come full circle in looking for a new bolt gun to toy with, and I have pretty much decided `06 is the caliber of choice. Nothing to serious; a Rem 700 Long Range; HXP surplus brass; Nosler RDF 175gr.

I'm not a hunter, just a recreational paper puncher... glad I found this thread!

 

[sandwarrior]

I guess each of us takes a journey through what we hear and see. I've come to the conclusion it's not just about the cartridge, and one bullet diameter over another is well...just a diameter. A diameter, that within the parameters allowed can be grown to great BC's or lightened and pushed out fast. Pushing any bullet from any caliber too hard is going to lead to premature barrel wear. One also has to realize that with added diameter, it takes added "massaging" to get the bullet to the same shape as the sleek skinny ones. But, then you have the added advantage of extra weight when you arrive at the same form.

So, you come to the decision of whether to go .30 cal and heavy, 7mm and not as heavy, 6.5mm and lighter still, ete. etc. What's your balance point of recoil mitigation, wind bucking ability (bullet weight a huge factor) and ballistic coeficient?

With the right bullets and barrel twist, the .30-06 is a good performer. It's going to give you decent barrel life. And, it's going to give you more recoil. If you're okay with that, then the 30-06 is a very viable cartridge. Yes, it's still a viable cartridge. Of note, if we made bullets that were optimized in a 1-8" twist .30 cal barrel, we would see an improvement.

 

[Masta_Gunz]

I’ve been thinking about getting a used Remington Model 700 Long Range 30-06 and putting it in ideally an AICS chassis but I’ve struggled to find a chassis to fit the 30-06. Anyone got some suggestions?

Magpul Hunter Stock Long Action even comes with a DBM (Detachable Box Magazine)

--Masta_Gunz

 

[pmclaine]

Some weekend checking of relevance.....

 

[DRAGON64]

Nice shooting @pmclaine, I really love the `03 Springfield you have there, she is a fine example.

I finally carved out a little time last night to start loading for the 30-06; 175gr RDF over H4350. My rifle, a Rem 700 Long Range, has not been fired yet, but once it has started the break-in period, I will run a ladder test. Starting at 55gr and going up .5gr increments to 59gr max load.

 

[pmclaine]

Nice shooting @pmclaine, I really love the `03 Springfield you have there, she is a fine example.

I finally carved out a little time last night to start loading for the 30-06; 175gr RDF over H4350. My rifle, a Rem 700 Long Range, has not been fired yet, but once it has started the break-in period, I will run a ladder test. Starting at 55gr and going up .5gr increments to 59gr max load.

Interested in your results.

My load was 46.6 Varget with 168 Nos CC and WLRP.

Im switching my bolt '06 over to I4350 and 175 SMK sometime soon.

 

[lash]

@DRAGON64, I am also interested in your results. I too have a 700 Long Range in ‘06. Mine has only seen the Creedmoor 167g loads so far. They Shoot pretty well, but mainly are for the Lapua brass.

 

[pmclaine]

@DRAGON64, I am also interested in your results. I too have a 700 Long Range in ‘06. Mine has only seen the Creedmoor 167g loads so far. They Shoot pretty well, but mainly are for the Lapua brass.

Yes. Ive been buying that ammo through the CMP for use in my Win70.

My first box was loaded with nickle primers and was legit one hole ammo.

Im in my second batch now. It has brass primers and though good doesnt seem as specatacular as the first was.

The Lapua cases will be put to good use.

 

[DRAGON64]

My M1 has not been very kind to my HXP cases; the rims are chewed up (by the extractor) on some them to the point my shell holder gets stuck to the case... a little rotation, and they come out, but irritating nonetheless.

Right now I am experiencing a little anomaly with the 175 Nosler RDF bullets; it would seem that the ogive is not very constant. I set my seat point to 3.34, and end up with bullets seating anywhere from 3.32 to 3.40. At first I blamed the Lee bullet seating die, before realizing I may have an actual "factory 2nds" issue. Is it that big an issue? Maybe not, except that the free bore on my rifle is right at .155 - .163 as it is.

 

[lash]

My M1 has not been very kind to my HXP cases; the rims are chewed up (by the extractor) on some them to the point my shell holder gets stuck to the case... a little rotation, and they come out, but irritating nonetheless.

Right now I am experiencing a little anomaly with the 175 Nosler RDF bullets; it would seem that the ogive is not very constant. I set my seat point to 3.34, and end up with bullets seating anywhere from 3.32 to 3.40. At first I blamed the Lee bullet seating die, before realizing I may have an actual "factory 2nds" issue. Is it that big an issue? Maybe not, except that the free bore on my rifle is right at .155 - .163 as it is.

If you have a lot of the RDFs, my best suggestion is to sort them by groups, based upon base to ogive measurements.

 

[SAMR]

I think with 175 SMK or heavier like a 208, the ballistics would be good enough for long range. I guess the idea would be to get similar BC to the 300WM, but with less recoil (and MV). I think the caliber is half the equation, but I see no reason a good marksman with a 3006 could not out-shoot a poorer marksman with a 6.5 or 308. If I was going to get into PRS or similar, but maybe was hesitant because only have a 30-06, then I would not let that stop me.

 

[SAMR]

I guess I’m kinda’ late to the party...
About a dozen years ago, two pretty well respected members here began to post their 30-06 ballistic performance at long ranges with modern powders and projectiles.

One was MontanaMarine and the other was USSR. I don’t see either of them here anymore. Maybe they both skipped the Scout thing; I know I did.

I was intrigued at the prospect of getting 300WM performance without the barrel wear. But more on that in a minute....

So I found a R700 donor action and a Shillen select 10 twist and had my smith build me a 30-06 barreled action that went into an AICS 1.5. This rifle was chambered with a match reamer that was optimized for 190SMKs. I had 400 Lake City M72 match cases and began load development.

This thing shot everything well but two loads stood out: 208 Amaxs over 60gr of RL22 and 155gr Lapua Scenars over H4895. The 208s ran about 2760fps or 29.5 MOA to a thousand yards. This was a very compressed load due to the chamber dimensions. The Scenars ran a whopping 3250fps and were 26.0 MOA to a thousand. The 208s ran well enough for me to place fifth in an F class match at Quantico on a really windy October day .

I only shot the 155s at 1K when the wind was relatively calm at Quantico which was a lot the following summer. I continued to smack my 15x25 IPSA target at a grand with the 155 Scenars until one day at about 1800 rounds the accuracy dropped off dramatically and the barrel was done.

So I put the rifle aside for awhile.

Last year I got a 10 twist Mike Rock and a German Salazar Serengeti reamer and gave my worn out barreled action to a 2112 at PWS and started over.

No more Lapua Scenars running 3250fps.

Now I’m running 208ELDMs over RL17 in Win cases and 210SMKs over RL22. Both run about 2750 and are both 29.5 MOA to a thousand on Range 4 Quantico. At least they were last Sunday in 38F weather.

And I’ve staged my stuff to go tomorrow....

View attachment 7047844

View attachment 7047845

Sweet looking rifle, you made me think to. Would you or the OP want to consider a 30-06AI?

 

[VSP968]

Who knows? It’ll take some time to wear this barrel out.
And I like the Salazar Serengeti chamber I have now.

Two weekends ago I shot the 30-06 alongside a match at Quantico. My scores didn’t matter because this rile was illegal due to match rules.

In a pretty steady drizzle I shot a 200 14X at 800 yards and a 197 12X at 1000 yards. 208ELDMs were running 19.5MOA @800 and 27.25MOA @1000.

Like I said, my score didn’t count, but it was fun have a target pulled, marked and scored.

 

[pmclaine]

Just bought this yesterday......

Im planning something with a Douglas barrel chambered in 30-06, McMillan stock and S&B 5-25 PMII.

It will do as my 300 WM I wont buy because I dont want another caliber to load.

For those days when I have some doubt and dont feel .308 is what I need.

 

[VSP968]

Nice score Phil!
M70 goodness!
You need a big old Unertl now.
That was USSRs thing, the old member I referred to earlier, M70s in 30-06.

 

[pmclaine]

Nice score Phil!
M70 goodness!
You need a big old Unertl now.
That was USSRs thing, the old member I referred to earlier, M70s in 30-06.

I have the M70 with Unertl set up already, a clone of a USMC VN sniper. Pictures somewhere in this thread I think.

This would actually be a much better receiver for that gun but things don't fall in our laps in a timely manner.

I want a "modern" 30-06 that retains some history. I love the serial number of this receiver.

This receiver, a Douglas SS match barrel at minimum MTU contour, 20 to 23 inches in length. Minimum 1/10 twist, considering faster. McMillan Htg to USMC M40A1ISH spec with an added bipod rail. Badger USMC M40A3 rings and my on hand S&B 5-25 with H2CMR.

Open to taking suggestions regards length/twist of barrel considering 175 SMK to be most common bullet through it and my only readily accessible range being 1000 yards infrequently.

Maybe LRI will be running Winchester services soon.

Biggest decision...........do I dare drill this for a pic rail/scope mount?

 

[sandwarrior]

I have the M70 with Unertl set up already, a clone of a USMC VN sniper. Pictures somewhere in this thread I think.

This would actually be a much better receiver for that gun but things don't fall in our laps in a timely manner.

I want a "modern" 30-06 that retains some history. I love the serial number of this receiver.

This receiver, a Douglas SS match barrel at minimum MTU contour, 20 to 23 inches in length. Minimum 1/10 twist, considering faster. McMillan Htg to USMC M40A1ISH spec with an added bipod rail. Badger USMC M40A3 rings and my on hand S&B 5-25 with H2CMR.

Open to taking suggestions regards length/twist of barrel considering 175 SMK to be most common bullet through it and my only readily accessible range being 1000 yards infrequently.

Maybe LRI will be running Winchester services soon.

Biggest decision...........do I dare drill this for a pic rail/scope mount?

I wouldn’t worry about d&t’ing it. It’s not going to be original anyway. You might as well set it up however you want.

Nice find BTW!

 

[Odindad]

Real nice action! That looks like a .220 swift magazine box. I have a pre-war action that I plan on building into a precision rig. I am thinking either 30 GOV'T' 06 or a 6.5x55.

 

[Odindad]

LRI can blueprint pre 64s right now. I have talked to Chad before and pre-wars are one of his favorite actions.

 

[VSP968]

These barrels have always shot 175SMKs well for me:

Rock Creek 30cal 11.27 twist SS M24 27''

www.bugholes.com

 

[Eddystone]

I am a fan of 27" length. The muzzle blast at 20" with H4350 is something else. You can always shorten it...

 

[pmclaine]

I am a fan of 27" length. The muzzle blast at 20" with H4350 is something else. You can always shorten it...

Man I just dont like that "musket" aspect of the rifle though.

Musket....

Musketoon

Im a fan of the Musketoon length. No intention of having a barrel device on mine so concussion will be blowing down range (though I would be smart to have it threaded with a hidden thread protector if cans ever become legal in my local).

 

[DRAGON64]

Probably does not make much sense, but I picked up a couple hundred Nosler RDF 210gr bullets from Midway today. I say that because I do not have immediate access to anything more than a 600 yard range at the moment... and even that is going away once the cotton is sewed in. But with a G1 BC of .707 it was hard to resist.

 

[VSP968]

I was looking for something else and came across this oldie but goodie from 2012:

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/remember-the-great-30-06-debate-10-years-ago.112707/

 

[Centuriator]

"Still relevant"

Yes, it is. It will kill man and beast.

Do you have another stupid question?

 

[sandwarrior]

"Still relevant"

Yes, it is. It will kill man and beast.

Do you have another stupid question?

It's not that you are wrong, but would you put a little context around it? A .22LR will kill man and beast.

And no, it's not a stupid question. As the "powers that be" in the shooting world have taken it upon themselves to NOT make high BC .30 cal bullets for the longest time. The question isn't so much what the cartridge has for velocity (thus power) at the muzzle, but what efficiencies have been made to the bullet to make it competitive with the best 6mm's, 6.5mm's and 7mm's at long range.

If you will read above, you will see various arguments about bullets being used in the .30-06 that do make it competitive. It would be helpful if you had worked with some of these "newer" bullets to give us an honest assessment of what they really can do from a 30-06.

 

[GhostFace]

I am curious how many would be interested in a 208 AMAX factory load with Winchester brass, Fed 210M primer and either H4350 or IMR 4350? As you know H4350 can be a PITA to find. Price should work out to be pretty reasonable and this would be a true .30-06 LR load, not something downloaded to work in a Garand.

 

[MK20]

In good brass I might be. Give some attention to RL 23. Most guys here report good experience with RL22 for velocity and accuracy and RL23 is supposed to be just temp stable RL22.
Also H4831 SC is worth a look.
4350 is supposed to be good but a little on the quicker side.

 

[tunaman]

Beautiful rifles

Agreed - beauties! I’ve got two M1Ds, two M1Cs and an ‘03A3 myself, and love them. Mine aren’t nearly as pretty, but they are all shooters.

 

[lash]

I am curious how many would be interested in a 208 AMAX factory load with Winchester brass, Fed 210M primer and either H4350 or IMR 4350? As you know H4350 can be a PITA to find. Price should work out to be pretty reasonable and this would be a true .30-06 LR load, not something downloaded to work in a Garand.

I would think there would be a market for this, though at what volume is the question. There are a number of people that do not to want another caliber to load for, but would like a factory high performance ‘06 load.

I expect that there would have to be a warning on the box that the loads cannot be used safely in vintage or old rifles.