30 cal vs 338 cal.. elr light gun & king of 1 mile

[Schw15]

For longer distances like light gun elr or even king of 1 Mile is a 338 a must with a 300 grain bullet or a solid copper? The new 30 cal bullets like 250 a-tip bc runs with the 300 grain and then the pva 241 solid g7 .555 .

New action with lapua or stick with arc nucleus mag bolt face.

I'm kicking it around to maybe build and try my hand at that stuff. But not sure the best route. Now I'm running a arc nucleus gen 2 30 nosler 30 inch barrel and used it in nightforce challenge not sure it's enough gun for other matches.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

Made it to the Ko1M finals last year shooting a 28 nozzler I'd never seen before the match. 33xc is a hot rod and gives you and edge but it is not the only viable choice. Do the match on your supersonic range and if is isn't out to say 2400 yards, does your bullet transition with stability?

-Alex

 

[Dan Warner]

I have run a 300 WSM in light gun a few times now, because it is what I could run without having to build new at the time. While really fun to shoot, it is at a disadvantage past say 1800 yards. A 33 is the way to go and stay competitive in the longer distances of the light gun class. Be mindful of the decision though; cartridges like the 33XC have very short barrel life and smaller ones like the Lapua cannot drive a 285 or 300gr bullet fast enough to be practical.

 

[Taylorbok]

IMO the biggest advantage of a 338 over a 30 is the splash it produces. If you just wanna try it the 30 Nosler will be good enough.
If you wanted to spend a few bucks but not build a whole rifle could chamber a 338 EDGE barrel for your current rifle

 

[NightStash]

Currently the number one ranked K01M shooter is running a 300NM. He's also won 3 out of 4 SpearPoint light gun matches this year running that setup.

 

[Schw15]

Made it to the Ko1M finals last year shooting a 28 nozzler I'd never seen before the match. 33xc is a hot rod and gives you and edge but it is not the only viable choice. Do the match on your supersonic range and if is isn't out to say 2400 yards, does your bullet transition with stability?

-Alex

That is really impressive with the 28 cal. I will need to switch up my bullets for sure. A lot of great options too

 

[Schw15]

I have run a 300 WSM in light gun a few times now, because it is what I could run without having to build new at the time. While really fun to shoot, it is at a disadvantage past say 1800 yards. A 33 is the way to go and stay competitive in the longer distances of the light gun class. Be mindful of the decision though; cartridges like the 33XC have very short barrel life and smaller ones like the Lapua cannot drive a 285 or 300gr bullet fast enough to be practical.

What bullet did you run? Yeah think there is a fine line between the calibers with performance and barrel life

 

[Schw15]

IMO the biggest advantage of a 338 over a 30 is the splash it produces. If you just wanna try it the 30 Nosler will be good enough.
If you wanted to spend a few bucks but not build a whole rifle could chamber a 338 EDGE barrel for your current rifle

338 edge would be a great idea single feed. My 30 nosler with right bullets would be a good start though to see

 

[Long Range 338]

Lots of guys run 6.5 PRC out to a mile without too much issue. Everything is a trade off with components, barrel life, and cost among other factors. The 6.5 is cheaper and easier to run but harder to spot hits and misses. The 338 works well but to get it to shine you need about 2900 fps and now you're dealing with more cost and recoil.

300 PRC and 300 NM are a good compromise of cost with good energy. I expect 7 PRC to be more popular as some better brass becomes available.

 

[ForgeValley]

Currently the number one ranked K01M shooter is running a 300NM. He's also won 3 out of 4 SpearPoint light gun matches this year running that setup.

Shot in 2 light gun matches this year, 300 norma won one, 300 NMI the other.

 

[b2lee]

If the original question was about the 338LM...then the 338LM is at a disadvantage to the 300PRC/300NM. If you are talking about a 338 cartridge like the 33XC...then that will kick the ass of the 300PRC/NM at distances beyond 2000yds...really 2200yds. There are a lot of cartridges that can do well at short range ELR (less than 2000yds) and 1 mile specific matches. The best cost and efficient choice is the 300PRC. It is the 6 Dasher of 30cal magnums. If I owned a Lapua action...I wouldn't waste my time fooling around with the 338LM or the 300NM...I'd simply spin up a 33XC and forget about it. However, for 1 mile...it is a waste of money...it's just too short of a distance to take advantage of the 33XC.

 

[Schw15]

My 30 nosler should be a good beginner deal to see. I run 220 bergers now mag fed.

I'm starting to test pva 212
The 250 a-tip shot some another barrel and there ok.
Would really love some berger 245 lrht

Maybe spin up a 7 twist and try thr pva 241

 

[Schw15]

My little research I found a elr light gun in raton NM which is like 4 hours away I live in Colorado. The a king of 1 Mile in Texas which is 10 hrs away but is there any other matches like them around?

 

[NightStash]

My little research I found a elr light gun in raton NM which is like 4 hours away I live in Colorado. The a king of 1 Mile in Texas which is 10 hrs away but is there any other matches like them around?

SpearPoint Ranch in north central Kansas hosts a monthly ELR light gun match along with a Rookie match for newer shooters.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

My little research I found a elr light gun in raton NM which is like 4 hours away I live in Colorado. The a king of 1 Mile in Texas which is 10 hrs away but is there any other matches like them around?

Jay and I have a few in TX and next year we will have matches in CO and several in SD. SPR has light class but the ranges are more for seasoned shooters so you might want to cut your teeth on something a bit more approachable.

-Alex

 

[Schw15]

SpearPoint Ranch in north central Kansas hosts a monthly ELR light gun match along with a Rookie match for newer shooters.

The rookie match looks like the best to start with. I went to spearpoint but never seen anything on that match I will have to double check

 

[Schw15]

Jay and I have a few in TX and next year we will have matches in CO and several in SD. SPR has light class but the ranges are more for seasoned shooters so you might want to cut your teeth on something a bit more approachable.

-Alex

I appreciate the list and info on the matches. I know a lot of info is on Facebook which I do not have.

Now can you tell me where the match will be in Colorado and when for next year?

Since the spearpoint match you don't recommend what match in your opinion would be the best?

 

[Taylorbok]

I appreciate the list and info on the matches. I know a lot of info is on Facebook which I do not have.

Now can you tell me where the match will be in Colorado and when for next year?

Since the spearpoint match you don't recommend what match in your opinion would be the best?

One of the farther right columns lists a couple matches as good entry level matches. Personally I would pick one that's close to you and just make it happen, nothing to be afraid of really. Even if you hit nothing there is a good chance you're not the only one that day and it will be a good learning event

 

[Schw15]

One of the farther right columns lists a couple matches as good entry level matches. Personally I would pick one that's close to you and just make it happen, nothing to be afraid of really. Even if you hit nothing there is a good chance you're not the only one that day and it will be a good learning event

Yeah I agree I will look at them and see which one. Kind of waiting to see about the Colorado one next year.

 

[Taylorbok]

Yeah I agree I will look at them and see which one. Kind of waiting to see about the Colorado one next year.

July 28 (light) and then 29-30 (heavy/any) in Raton

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

I appreciate the list and info on the matches. I know a lot of info is on Facebook which I do not have.

Now can you tell me where the match will be in Colorado and when for next year?

Since the spearpoint match you don't recommend what match in your opinion would be the best?

Near Grand Junction. We are still nailing down dates.

Just ask the MDs what the ranges are going to be like. SPR goes from 1500 to 2900 which makes it the longest course of fire for Light gun out there. Good place to stretch your legs but not the best for a new shooter. Sorta depends upon what you are comfortable with though.

-Alex

 

[Schw15]

Near Grand Junction. We are still nailing down dates.

Just ask the MDs what the ranges are going to be like. SPR goes from 1500 to 2900 which makes it the longest course of fire for Light gun out there. Good place to stretch your legs but not the best for a new shooter. Sorta depends upon what you are comfortable with though.

-Alex

At the newer cameo shooting range? I've never shot that far before farthest is 2125 and I can only practice to 2000 yards at range. But something I'm looking forward to learning and getting better

 

[Schw15]

Shot in 2 light gun matches this year, 300 norma won one, 300 NMI the other.

What bullets?

 

[ForgeValley]

What bullets?

Solids. 230 CEBs in both instances. Farthest targets 1800 something in one, 2200 something in the other. It was actually just straight up 300 Norma both times.

 

[Schw15]

Solids. 230 CEBs in both instances. Farthest targets 1800 something in one, 2200 something in the other. It was actually just straight up 300 Norma both times.

Shocks me because bc isn't very high

 

[Taylorbok]

Shocks me because bc isn't very high

ELR is more about consistency than it is wicked high BC. that being said it's tough to beat a cup and core bullet inside 2500

 

[Schw15]

ELR is more about consistency than it is wicked high BC. that being said it's tough to beat a cup and core bullet inside 2500

I agree I was just shocked at how low the bc was for the distances. Yeah I'm going to play with pva 212 and see what they do and revisit hornady 250 a-tip if not stick 100% with the berger 220.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

I agree I was just shocked at how low the bc was for the distances. Yeah I'm going to play with pva 212 and see what they do and revisit hornady 250 a-tip if not stick 100% with the berger 220.

Worth calculating out which would give you the longest supersonic range. That matters less if you know the bullet will transition and retain stability but it also speaks to ToF which matters for wind too.

-Alex

 

[Schw15]

Worth calculating out which would give you the longest supersonic range. That matters less if you know the bullet will transition and retain stability but it also speaks to ToF which matters for wind too.

-Alex

Pva solids 212 and 241 would be the clear winners based on numbers if they shoot is another story. My 220 berger load isn't to great I think good out to maybe 2100 yards have to double check.

 

[ForgeValley]

Shocks me because bc isn't very high

CEB's seem to punch above their weight class (BC) if standings in finishing position count for anything.

 

[Schw15]

CEB's seem to punch above their weight class (BC) if standings in finishing position count for anything.

Yes they seem to be top elr bullet. It just crazy because bc wise there on lower end usually. That 230 30 cal g7 was .342 I think berger 220 is .374. Something to wrap my head around.

 

[cameljockey230]

Accuracy wins matches and high bullet bc wins the heart of beginner level shooters.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

Yes they seem to be top elr bullet. It just crazy because bc wise there on lower end usually. That 230 30 cal g7 was .342 I think berger 220 is .374. Something to wrap my head around.

CE lazers will transition into subsonic making them an excellent choice when shooting longer ranges. The list of monolithic bullets that will manage that is fairly short. You can only spin up a jacketed bullet so fast making the "I'll just get a faster twist" into a hilarious choice on occasion. BC over consistency is a loosing game.

-Alex

 

[Schw15]

CE lazers will transition into subsonic making them an excellent choice when shooting longer ranges. The list of monolithic bullets that will manage that is fairly short. You can only spin up a jacketed bullet so fast making the "I'll just get a faster twist" into a hilarious choice on occasion. BC over consistency is a loosing game.

-Alex

You do a lot of this stuff do you recommend the cutting edge bullet then? What about a-tips? I think most of the elr light farthest is 2600 yards.

I'm not chasing bc just was shocked at numbers that's all. I figured they would be crazy high bc like the Warner and pva.

 

[cameljockey230]

Pick the bullet that shoots the best in your gun and ignore those bc numbers.
I shoot a 300 wsm at 600 1000 yards and gave it a try at 2054 yards.
I went 8 out of 10 using a 187 grain BIB flatbased bullet. That isn't a typo it is a flatbased bullet.
When you practice don't change your point of aim at all just hold center of the gong and let 10 rounds fly.
If they all miss the gong no worries at all.
If all 10 rounds looked like a tiny group your good to go.
If the 10 shots were high low left and right change bullets and work up another load.

 

[IntoTransonic]

You do a lot of this stuff do you recommend the cutting edge bullet then? What about a-tips? I think most of the elr light farthest is 2600 yards.

I'm not chasing bc just was shocked at numbers that's all. I figured they would be crazy high bc like the Warner and pva.

You will need a faster twist rate with a solid. Go with a solid, and keep it simple. Slowest powder /heaviest solid projectile in relation to your specific caliber will work and work well within your capabilities.

Twist rate for a solid vs an a tip may be vastly different. Do some research. You really want to spin the solids … (some manufacturers projectiles) slow heavy solid projectiles are stable at distance when you spin them.

After all, it’s about performing into transonic.

Good luck and great shooting.
Chris Schmidt
Chattanooga, TN

 

[Schw15]

What rear bags are guys using for elr light and king of 1 mile? Now I use a precision underground elr 3d bag and there wedge bag and love them for nightforce challenge but I'm figuring the other styles need more of a solid rest.

 

[Sandow the Heretic]

What rear bags are guys using for elr light and king of 1 mile? Now I use a precision underground elr 3d bag and there wedge bag and love them for nightforce challenge but I'm figuring the other styles need more of a solid rest.

It is fairly flat shooting so it is a preference thing. My wife likes the fortune cookie, I like the green caldwell bunny ears. Use what you are used to. It isn't the time to try to reinvent your shooting style.

-Alex

 

[Taylorbok]

What rear bags are guys using for elr light and king of 1 mile? Now I use a precision underground elr 3d bag and there wedge bag and love them for nightforce challenge but I'm figuring the other styles need more of a solid rest.

I use a pint sized game changer. I’ve got a protektor bag I’ve been testing. I’m not I love with it yet but gonna give it more time, I might need a different height honestly.
I’ve got one the 3d elr bags also, the dimensions don’t work great for me.

 

[Schw15]

I use a pint sized game changer. I’ve got a protektor bag I’ve been testing. I’m not I love with it yet but gonna give it more time, I might need a different height honestly.
I’ve got one the 3d elr bags also, the dimensions don’t work great for me.

There wedge bag is great specially for nightforce where you have to shoot different angles faster. That's the bag I use more now. At first it's awkward because it is big and shaped different but a small movement you can be more elevation or less

 

[Taylorbok]

There wedge bag is great specially for nightforce where you have to shoot different angles faster. That's the bag I use more now. At first it's awkward because it is big and shaped different but a small movement you can be more elevation or less

I like the game changer for that match. I can run it in 4 different orientations to get 4 different heights and still use it as a squeeze bag kinda deal.
The Protektor I have is angled also, obviously wouldn't work for NF but it really seems to make the gun track straight back with ski feet on bipod. I think I'm gonna order the shorter model now, I've mostly come to grips with rear bags are such a preference that you gotta buy a bunch and then ditch what you don't like/ use

 

[Schw15]

I like the game changer for that match. I can run it in 4 different orientations to get 4 different heights and still use it as a squeeze bag kinda deal.
The Protektor I have is angled also, obviously wouldn't work for NF but it really seems to make the gun track straight back with ski feet on bipod. I think I'm gonna order the shorter model now, I've mostly come to grips with rear bags are such a preference that you gotta buy a bunch and then ditch what you don't like/ use

I was thinking for the king of 1 mile or elr light class a protector would be better overall but something I have to find out. I agree everyone likes something different precision underground bags have been great for me.

 

[TripleBull]

The Berger factory ammo (300 grain Berger LRHT) ran great in my 338. It was predictable out to 2400 yards. At the time we were stretching it out and checking dope, I was working up a handload for the 300 PRC (230 grain A-Tip). The dope was similar for the two at 2200 yards and the 300 PRC had a bit less drop at 2400. The Berger factory ammo is hit and miss since Covid, but it sure is a great lazy man's option for a mile plus. The 300 PRC is another no brainer choice in that distance range. We took it to 1.5 miles before running out of vertical. I recently got a 60 MOA scope mount so we'll see how the next increment goes.

 

[Raven mad1]

Currently the number one ranked K01M shooter is running a 300NM. He's also won 3 out of 4 SpearPoint light gun matches this year running that setup.

Interestingly..... the #3 shooter shoots an Improved 338Norma Magnum case. Im relatively certain Danny Gilbert (#1) shoots an improved 300Norma Magnum. I see that He does very well at Spearpoint, would be good to see him at other matches, though, there may be some constraints that prevent him from shooting other matches IDK. HE does seem to rule the Light Gun at Spearpoint though.

 

[Schw15]

Interestingly..... the #3 shooter shoots an Improved 338Norma Magnum case. Im relatively certain Danny Gilbert (#1) shoots an improved 300Norma Magnum. I see that He does very well at Spearpoint, would be good to see him at other matches, though, there may be some constraints that prevent him from shooting other matches IDK. HE does seem to rule the Light Gun at Spearpoint though.

I wonder what bullet he's running?

 

[Raven mad1]

I wonder what bullet he's running?

I thought I was told #1 shoots a 245 Berger, and I know #3 shoots the same as #2, a 300gr. Berger hybrid OTM.

 

[Schw15]

I like the 338 norma improved need to some more looking up on it but neat case.

 

[Raven mad1]

I like the 338 norma improved need to some more looking up on it but neat case.

I was talking to James, he said he shoots 300gr. Bergers at 2900fps, but he has a load using N570 and it pushed the 300gr. Berger at 3100fps out of a 33" tube. Some guys run their 33XCs over 3100, but I think most are down around 3000fps. I suppose at that point it could be a matter of what brand of brass you want to use. Preferences I suppose..... To each his/her own... A huge benefit to the XC case is all that speed at much lower pressures.

 

[bodhisafa]

Does anyone have those individuals contact information? Would like to pick their brains on their experience with their 30 and 338 cal. If they don’t mind, PM me their information.

 

[Raven mad1]

Does anyone have those individuals contact information? Would like to pick their brains on their experience with their 30 and 338 cal. If they don’t mind, PM me their information.

PM sent