300 blackout bolt gun

E

EddieE

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Minuteman
Mar 20, 2017
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#1
Would like to pick your collective brain on 300 blk bolt guns. I will be buying a 30 cal suppressor and would like to have a 300 blk bolt gun. I would prefer Remington footprint for obvious reasons. But they are pricier than the Ruger American and the Savage Axiss II. Of the Ruger and Savage, which would be more accurate, smoother, etc. Which has better aftermarket support (triggers, stocks, etc.)

If I could find a R700 action at a reasonable price, I wouldn't mind building on it. But I'm early in my search so no rush at this time.

Thanks
 
#3
I don't know if aftermarket supports the Ruger or Savage better.

I have a couple other Ruger American rifles (223 and 308), and just recently added a 300 BLK. I have only shot supersonic factory loads through it so far. I like the rifle, but will add a MagPul stock when thay come available.

My 300BLK rifle,
7ENxzLC.jpg



This is the stock I'm going to add later, I think it will be a nice upgrade.
magpul.com

Hunter American Stock – Ruger American® Short Action, STANAG Magazine Well

Ruger American Predator & Ranch Stock Upgrade
magpul.com magpul.com
 
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#4
5F84F43F-5E51-45F2-9BFD-79346C8C2FA7.jpeg
I had some frustrations getting my Q Mini Fix to ignite harder primers at first. After sending it back and bumping my shoulder a more reasonable distance it is now 100% with CCI 450s.

Now that it is sorted, I feel it is a well thought out gun for it’s application. The machining is impressive, the brace folding mechanism locks up tight, and the action is very slick. The Mini Fix with a Nomad LT suppressor has literally been mistaken for a pellet gun shooting 150 gr soft points loaded with Titegroup. Barnes 110 Tac TX bullets would make a great deer gun in a blind or to stick in a backpack for climbing into a tree stand.

It seems kind of expensive until you handle and shoot it. I think you would spend as much or more piecing something together and it would likely end up larger and heavier.

Not a Q fanboy but have to give props to Q for an interesting and well designed gun. It is a great gun to shoot with friends and family socially on the back porch, no ear pro required!
 
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#5
Back when I made mine, I found a 17FB Remington VTR on the clearance rack at cabelas and picked up a AAC prefit barrel. It's been ok, but if I was going to do it over again I'd look for one of the AAC Micro7's or grab a Ruger American.
 
#6
The caliber is meant for this platform. Obviously, do what you want but it shines here. Heavy and slow or 150 and fast works best for me w/ A1680.
D5A500E8-14A2-488E-A6A1-E22BF2B62FDB.jpeg

0CB9B073-D0AD-45E9-A806-1389B9075849.jpeg
 
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#8
aard3 said:
honestly I had the same idea... but what I personally found is that

1.) yes 300blk bolt gun with sub sonics is quiet, but not very accurate.
2.) supers are more accurate, but louder... at that point why not go with something else besides 300 blk if you aren't using subs.
Click to expand...

This is worth reading again. My 300blk bolt gun sat unused for a long time. I had a SRT 77/44 built that shoot 300gr bullets meant to expand at the subsonic velocities.

I only recently got mine out of the safe again when my kid started wanting to hunt deer. Figured some 110-125gr would work for our Blacktail.
 
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#10
jbuck88 said:
This is worth reading again. My 300blk bolt gun sat unused for a long time. I had a SRT 77/44 built that shoot 300gr bullets meant to expand at the subsonic velocities.

I only recently got mine out of the safe again when my kid started wanting to hunt deer. Figured some 110-125gr would work for our Blacktail.
Click to expand...
Ballistics may be better with Hornady 150 ILSP. Not that the 125 won’t work but maybe check it out. They are for me but I have a short barrel.
 
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#11
db2000 said:
The caliber is meant for this platform. Obviously, do what you want but it shines here. Heavy and slow or 150 and fast works best for me w/ A1680.
View attachment 7870427
View attachment 7870431
Click to expand...
I don't want to go SBR/Pistol route. I don't want another NFA and wait time.

I can get a 300BO upper with 16" barrel to play with, but with the suppressor, it comes to 24". Feel like thats too long for AR, but not too long for bolt gun. Now that I'm reading more, seems like the 308 subsonic is a better choice anyway. Early in the game still. I'm not committed to anything.
 
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#14
PB&J. said:
.308 twist rate for subsonics would be the big thing to watch. A 200gn+ projectile might not stabilise at subsonic velocities.
Click to expand...
Exactly. My 300 Blk is 1:7
All the empty space in the cartridge is another factor. Not meant for subsonic despite the ability to do it.
 
#15
I really like my Ruger. My 300 BO Ranch shoot 220 gr subsonic hand loads decenlty, around 1 - 1.5 moa. It might do better but if have played with the heavy hand loads much. It loves the factory 110 Hornady V-Max loads.

Mine is one of the older models that uses the Ruger 5 shot mag. The stock is just so so, but it is better then the original Axis stock. I think the Ruger is a better rifle then the Axis, but the Axis probably has more after market support.
 
#16
db2000 said:
Exactly. My 300 Blk is 1:7
All the empty space in the cartridge is another factor. Not meant for subsonic despite the ability to do it.
Click to expand...

Excess case capacity should be a given, but maybe trailboss or other high volume powder might get him a workable balance between velocity and case fill if he just HAS to use a .308win case.

If he wants to shoot .308 diameter projectiles at subsonic velocities with a silencer, 300blk is the cartridge to do it efficiently and is readily available.
 
#17
PB&J. said:
.308 twist rate for subsonics would be the big thing to watch. A 200gn+ projectile might not stabilise at subsonic velocities.
Click to expand...
My 11.25” twist 11.5” rifle spun the 185g Juggs insanely well. Never tried heavier, but I also never had a single keyhole. If you have a 10 twist 308W, I’d feel pretty comfortable that it will stabilize a 220 or so, but check before running a can.
 
#18
Unless you want to throw a bunch of money at it just pick up the Ruger American Ranch that takes the AR Mags. Its the easy button. Gives you a chance to play with the BO platform in a rifle without dumping a bunch of cash in it. In my mind it makes more sense than building a R700 that you have to feed via Floorplate. I've never had much luck with 300 Blackout in AICS magazines. I know some have gotten it to work but I think you need to modify the mags. The Ruger is just easy. It shoots probably as well as the Subsonic blackouts are capable of, which isn't all that fantastic but ok. Stock selection is limited but there are a few out there. for $500 bucks you get to try it out.

I've had a couple blackout bolt guns and the idea seems fun but the reality is that i just never use them and always end up back at the AR pistol platform with 10.5" barrel for 300 Blackout usage. That is where the Cartridge shines IMO. If and when I get the urge to try another bolt gun in 300 blackout I'll probably just put a switchblock on an AR so to kill the gas so it becomes a straight pull.

If my intent is to kill something with Subs out of a bolt gun I want more bullet mass than a blackout can provide. Yes the blackout will work at close range with the correct (expensive) expanding bullets but there are better mouse traps for the job. Yes a heavy 375/44/450 caliber bullet is louder but it will do a better job of killing an animal cleanly than a 300 blackout will IMO
 
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#19
350 Legend might do everything the 300blk does more better, in a short bolt gun with 556 bolt face.

The guys saying an inexpensive Ruger makes more sense than building off of a bare action, have the right idea. Unless you are going for a pistol build. Ruger ought to sell bare actions or Chargers for rifle calibers. They already do the Chargers for 9mm and 22lr
 
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#20
I can't speak for the 350 legend but I have a quite a bit of experience in both sub 300BLK bolt and my 308Win DTA is a dedicated subsonic rifle.
Actually for the longest time, the DTA would outshoot the 300BLK, I could never get the 300BLK to have single digit SDs the way I was doing it for 308win.

For the 308 win, I'm using the older DTA 1:8 twist 16in barrel.
My golden load is Lapua brass, Fed Large Match primers, Redding match bushing dies, 11gr Trailboss, Lapua 200FMJ-BT but Hornady 190 Sub-X and Amax 208 are good substitutes, they're not picky on seating depth and will do 3/4 moa at 100 yards or better. My Lapua FMJBT can do 1/2-3/4 moa but the name of the game in subsonic is to have single digit sd/es otherwise you'll get a lot of vertical past 100 yards. Consistent neck tension and a scale that can do better than the +/- .1 gr of a RCBS chargemaster is a must. I use a rechargeable battery pack for both my Chargemaster and my Gempro in order because when I would use the AC power adapter I would get drift. I'd still would like to get rid of the Gempro but the higher end scale are just so expensive, I can't justify it since I can make it work with what I have now.

For subsonic 300BLK, I use a Defiance anTI with a Bartlein 1:8 barrel at 12.5in. I bough the barrel as a prefit but I think I'll get my smith to add a bit of a chamfer to the barrel since it's a little picky feeding the 190 SubX (the 208 amax and Lapuas are fine).
It took me a long time to find the right powder that had the case fill %, burn rate and the consistency for accurate long range and I was able to finally test it this week and I was impressed at the results.

I've been trying VV Tinstar, N105, N110, N120 and all of the usual suspects and I was doing okay with 7.3-7.5 N105 but nothing can could even match my 308win accuracy and SDs and lo and behold, I decided to work up a ladder with N330 and it's absolutely incredible. Clean, accurate and single digit SD/ES.
I won't post the load data because according to quickload, with the Amax 208, I'm in the 60K psi territory. Haven't had a sticky bolt or a blown primer but definitely this is the kind of load that you work up slowly and use a chrono. I've been using Rem 7 1/2 primers and had better results although I'll be SOL once I run out since I usually can't get the CCI 450s and BR4s to ignite 100% of the time.

I was able to take it to 400M (450yards) with my new Helos Gen 2-12 and was doing 100% hit rate on a 10in plate at 400M (19.4 mils) and 100% hit rate on a 6in plate at 300M (13.3 mils). Velocity was 990FPS. At 400M, 10FPS = approx 4-5in of vertical so aiming at the waterline if I get outside of +/- 10FPS I will most likely miss so it's a good way to confirm the chrono data. The Helos had no issues tracking back and forth, it's the perfect scope for this task... actually it's the only scope right now in the 2-12 ffp niche.

300BLK is a bit picky to feed in a AICS but the MPA chassis I'm currently using helps a lot because I can adjust the mag height (although the set screw can work itself loose over time and then it start skipping rounds; one day I'll permanently fix this with jb weld). If I had to do it over again I might consider a TL3 or ARC for the CRF since it probably helps increase the reliability. The new MDT DSSF 10 rnds and the Accurate 5 rnds is all I'm using and it works almost all the time but still can get a bit of a hang every once in a while.
 
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#23
SkyScrapin said:
My 11.25” twist 11.5” rifle spun the 185g Juggs insanely well. Never tried heavier, but I also never had a single keyhole. If you have a 10 twist 308W, I’d feel pretty comfortable that it will stabilize a 220 or so, but check before running a can.
Click to expand...

Your 1:11.25" twist rate is stabilising 185 juggernauts at subsonic velocities? That's pretty interesting.
 
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#24
10 twist most likely won’t stabilize 220s at most density altitudes but it will stabilize the Lapua 200 FMJBT because it’s a fairly short bullet.
 
#25
I've looked into this in the past as well as I'd like to plink off my back patio without the blast and noise upsetting the neighbors. I completely get that the 300 BO was made for the AR platform, but you're not going to get anymore quiet than a bolt gun with no moving parts especially for the price point of the Ruger Ranch that takes an AR mag. I get that there's ways to make other calibers subsonic, but the 300 BO was made to be subsonic and has all the factory ammo options a person could want in addition to the reloading bench recipes. The ruger is what really caught my eye and got me thinking about the idea. If I were to do this as a backyard play thing I'd probably stick to the budget ruger route just because it's not something I'd see myself using for a serious competition or hunt or any other use than the occasional groundhog at 200 yards on in.

I'm a little disappointed by the level of accuracy I'm reading about with the ruger ranch rifle with subsonics, but I think the magpul stock mentioned earlier would be a big benefit.
 
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#26
Oddly, Howa does not chamber the mini action on .300 BO, but the action would make a nice little rifle.
Do you absolutely need a repeater?
CVA makes a dandy little break action carbine

CVA Home

cva.com cva.com
The only Savage rifles I see in .300 Blk are the Axis rifles, I'd rather have the Ruger.
 
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#27
fdkay said:
Oddly, Howa does not chamber the mini action on .300 BO, but the action would make a nice little rifle.
Do you absolutely need a repeater?
CVA makes a dandy little break action carbine

CVA Home

cva.com cva.com
The only Savage rifles I see in .300 Blk are the Axis rifles, I'd rather have the Ruger.
Click to expand...
I already have an encore and was looking for one of the 300 BO barrels for it but never found one, otherwise I'd have gone that route. A single shot shouldn't be overlooked.
 
#28
fdkay said:
Oddly, Howa does not chamber the mini action on .300 BO, but the action would make a nice little rifle.
Click to expand...
How does do a 300blk mini action, probably just not imported into the US.

Remington did a model called the SPS AAC-SD, looks like it's discontiniued.
According to the Remington website they still do something similar https://remingtongunstore.com/remington-700-sps-tactical-300-aac-blackout-bolt-action-rifle/

Obviously if you are building one from a bare action you can do what ever you like.
 
#30
Pretty sure CZ 527 had a nice little mini action for 300BLK, used the same action as their 762x39. Discontinued in 2021 but you’ll probably find one around
Howa used to have them couple of years ago.
 
#31
One problem the 300 Whisper has in Remington 700 type actions is that the short case can fall off the extractor before it gets ejected.

I went from Remington 700 to a TL2 and then a TL3.

I ended up with a DTA and am happy. It was an expensive lesson. Learn from my mistakes.
 
#33
Bell and Carlson makes a stock that will work with the rotary mag Rugers. I put one on my Ruger 300 BO and it is a nice improvement over the factory stock.

Almost all of the shooting I have done with my Ruger 300 BO has been off hand with plated bullets shot at steel, 50 - 300 yards. It is a hoot, great fun.
 
#34
soflastg said:
what twist are you using and bullet weight in the 308 win ?
Click to expand...

Last barrel was 11.25 Twist shooting 135g SMK supers and 185 Jug subs

New barrel is 10 twist shooting 155 hyb supers and 185 juggs.

Heaviest 30 cal bullet I have is a 190, but if someone wants clarity on what a 10 twist will stabilize at subsonic velocity, send me a few and I’ll test it.
 
#35
Hybrid bolt-gun in .300BO….extremely quite and accurate…straight-pull AR
 

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#36
I have a POF Edge (16" barrel) in 300BO That shoots extremely well with supers. Also have an 8.5" pistol that I just finished that I have not shot yet. Looking forward to that.
 
#37
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I was going to get a 22 mag several years ago because I missed having something to just sit around and plink with when camping. But I decided on a 300 BLK instead for the versatility it provided with subs. Got a Ruger Ranch for around $350 new and ordered a Boyd’s stock. Picked up a little scope on clearance from Eurooptic and added a larger bolt handle. Didn’t want to put too much $ into it but the fun factor is there, glad I got it.
 
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#38
R700 that started life as an ADL in 223.
Swapped into an aac-16” barrel in 300blk, a BDL stock with an aftermarket DBmag.
Kills deer dead with Sierra 125gr GK.
 

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#39
PB&J. said:
Your 1:11.25" twist rate is stabilising 185 juggernauts at subsonic velocities? That's pretty interesting.
Click to expand...
I have a 700LTR with a factory 1:12 that stabilizes the 185's also. Factory cor bon stuff. Loaded in lapua cases. Shot it out to 230ish with consistent hits. I was surprised.
 
#40
aard3 said:
honestly I had the same idea... but what I personally found is that

1.) yes 300blk bolt gun with sub sonics is quiet, but not very accurate.
2.) supers are more accurate, but louder... at that point why not go with something else besides 300 blk if you aren't using subs.
Click to expand...

You gotta find the right combo....I had 3 buddies with 300blk that echo the same exact thing you posted a few years ago. Subs were Fun, quiet but not accurste

I took the challenge and set out to see if I could get submoa accuracy from 300blk....I gotta say, I ALMOST gave in and...went through 3 barrels till I decided to test 1 last barrel....Rainier ultramatch 10.5" (shilen blank)... man what a difference. Night and day.....I have now tested there gen1 and gen2 300blk barrels and they both hammer out tiny little groups

Here's 125TMK H110 supers that I shoot out to 500M with 100% consistency on steel...

125 SMK first rounds down barrel





125 TMK final load confirmation.. not a bad 7x5 for a 10.5" 300blk





And here's 220 SMK CFE Black subs that shoot LIGHTS OUT and stupid quiet...no shit, had this old lady at the range last week ask me if I was shooting a nail gun. Hahaha. Rugged surge 7.62 on the gun...



 
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#41
EddieE said:
I don't want to go SBR/Pistol route. I don't want another NFA and wait time.

I can get a 300BO upper with 16" barrel to play with, but with the suppressor, it comes to 24". Feel like thats too long for AR, but not too long for bolt gun. Now that I'm reading more, seems like the 308 subsonic is a better choice anyway. Early in the game still. I'm not committed to anything.
Click to expand...

Wait times on Form 1 sbr are a few weeks to 45 days for all the ones I've done the last 2yr via atf efile....just sayin
 
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#45
jbuck88 said:
This is worth reading again. My 300blk bolt gun sat unused for a long time. I had a SRT 77/44 built that shoot 300gr bullets meant to expand at the subsonic velocities.

I only recently got mine out of the safe again when my kid started wanting to hunt deer. Figured some 110-125gr would work for our Blacktail.
Click to expand...
How well did your 77/44 shoot?
 
#47
EddieE said:
No AR unless pre-ban (1994). You can get a pre-ban lower, go through the paperwork maze with the ATF to convert it to pistol. But that is too much work and going to be costly. Last I checked, pre-ban stuff is going for big $.
Click to expand...

Even more of a reason to look at a Q Mini Fix! If you cannot have an AR pistol, the Mini Fix pistol might still be legal in your state. It is quieter than an AR pistol by a fair margin as well. It packs down nice and small, bill included for frame of reference... not the amount to purchase!

C64FF5CB-4914-4310-9EAB-80BD5483E504.jpeg
 
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#50
Anyone have one they only shoot supers out of? Is there any point?

I know there are a lot better cartridges to use but I always thought the 300 blk was fun in an AR so why not a bolt gun too?
 
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