.300 blk out hunting bullets

[riot1013]

Velocity and mass do trump. Along with expansion of the bullet. Put them into a calculator. Blk round produces 441ft/lbs of kinetic energy. The bow produces 44ft/lbs. If it wasn’t a factor then why do the hearts look like jello when shot rather than just have a hole in them.

This is in a ways an apples to oranges comparison. Arrows are designed to kill by massive hemorrhage and thus it is imperative that they are sharp enough to avoid vascular constriction at impact due to shock. That's why cut on impact broadheads are always preached, especially with slower traditional bows. I've seen a moose take a direct heart shot with an arrow...he flinched slightly, looked around and continued eating. About 15 seconds he literally just fell over. Sharp arrow and proper shot placement = quick humane kill.

Bullets kill partly due to hemorrhage but mostly due to the shock of the bullet disrupting organ function, or a combination of the two. Subsonic bullets are inducing enough shock to cause vascular constriction and delaying massive blood loss, but not enough to cause a disruption to organ function like a supersonic bullet would and are really borderline unethical for hunting any kind of big game in my opinion. But again that's just my opinion.

 

[RickyRodney]

Must be mutant deer. Ribs and skin aren't very thick.View attachment 6944325

Everyone online reacts to heart/lung shots with .22lr like selling whale meat at a PETA convention.

I can tell you with human GSW’s I’d rather be shot by any handgun loaded with FMJ’s than a .22lr. And PS just about any hole in your lungs and ANY hole in your heart regardless of Vudoo pretty much results in eventual death.

 

[spife7980]

I can tell you with human GSW’s I’d rather be shot by any handgun loaded with FMJ’s than a .22lr. And PS just about any hole in your lungs and ANY hole in your heart regardless of Vudoo pretty much results in eventual death.

So you would rather take a 40 gr 22 at 1200 fps over a 115 gr 9mm at 1200 fps? Why?

And of course everything eventually dies... thats not the subject being debated here.

 

[MarinePMI]

Lordy. After reading through this thread...I'm hungry. Think I'll go grill a venison steak now...

 

[supercorndogs]

The idea that "energy" (i.e. velocity trumps mass and inertia) is the key to hunting comes from non-hunters and ehunters.

The whole reason behind the old TKO index and countless stories from Africa (where there is actual thick-skinned, dangerous game) is because trying to base it on easy to calculate energy doesn't track in the real world. Talking about energy alone ignores terminal ballistics and inertia. Unless you hit CNS (in which case .22 is often entirely adequate) animals die via exsanguination. Lung /heart/lung is ideal because nothing bleeds faster.
Hydrostatic shock is the attempt to find something in the real world to justify using simplistic calculations of "energy" rather than penetration and exsanguination.

Shock makes things bleed faster due to damaged capillaries. I have seen how much blood in the cavity pistol rounds produce, even when put through the vitals. Not impressive. Inertia is energy. No one thing trumps any other in a definitive matter, other than the same bullet will kill faster at 2200fps than 1100fps, placed in the same spot.

 

[MarinePMI]

Methinks people need to relax. Maybe go read P.O. Ackley's Reloading Book Vol. 1. It has some pretty interesting reading about terminal performance of rifle bullets on live animals. Which remained inconclusive.

 

[oldfatguy]

I had not seen a deer heart in over 15 years when I figured out just where it lays.
Wait for it, wait for it, press and down, never one step more.

Have heart-shot several deer and they have all run. One about 150 yards after a 150 grain 308 Power Point took off the entire top of the heart.

OFG

 

[MarinePMI]

Again, do some reading. the proverbial "heartshot" "DRT" thing is theorized based on some testing, as was the results of being gut shot after eating versus having an empty stomach.

The internet does not contain all the information in the world; much is still contained in dead tree books. Ackley, Pope, Mann, Hatcher, etc..

 

[newguy2k3v2]

I would recommend the Barnes 120 tax black tips. For me in 2 different barrels I've been able to push them faster with much better accuracy than the 110. They're boat tails so they fly a little better and load much easier too.

 

[Fig]

Ask any corpsman how you treat a gunshot wound, and how it might kill a soldier. What’s the primary concern? That all goes away with a deer?

 

[spaniel]

Well yea, but he said a 147gr 9mm sub is better than a 225gr .300BLK sub? That's just as disingenuous.
Nothing is going to beat a Beowulf or a SOCOM by the same logic. Bigger is definitely better if you have a speed limit, period.

No, it's actually correct. Mass (225gr) has very little meaning if it's just penciling through. "Bigger is better", you say, and .358 is bigger than .308 and this is especially true when the .358 can expand and the .308 does not. At least the 9mm bullet is designed to expand at its launched velocity...and 9mm handguns are illegal to hunt big game (deer) with, pretty much everywhere I've ever hunted and for good reason. A sub 300BLK is about the same as shooting a deer with an arrow with a target point. Don't ever compare it to a broadhead, if you've ever bowhunted, you would known that a 1.25" broadhead cuts one hell of a big wound cavity.

I've been present when human sized living things were shot with 9mms and 40s, the results were completely unimpressive. We carry them because rifles and 44Mags are not practical as routine sidearms. But rounds in this performance range are totally inadequate for humane hunting.

With all the good options out there, it blows my mind that people try to bend themselves over to make such a shitty option serviceable.

 

[Fig]

Whatever. See post #39.

 

[Snuby642]

First of all rimfire is not legal in my state, and probably others for taking of deer.
Would not dispute the case it would work for a perfect shot.
Shooting a hog with one would be very foolish, and also possibly illegal in some states.

Reguardless of what an uninimportant eleatist out of his jurisdiction may say
The game warden does have a pertinent legal concern.
So I tired of the banter and went to the range with my 300 blk.

Off to a good start with the 220 fbrn rounds, no tumble.
Some tweaking of crimp and powder between 11.8 and 12.1 is needed in the next loads.
Had a couple "crack" at 12.0 but did not run my can to confirm yet.

0

As normal I pull one shot, in a hurry.

 

[Snuby642]

What are you guys using for subsonic hunting bullets? I reload my own stuff. Looking for something in the midrange price wise that works. Hornady has there subsonic ammo but doesn’t sell the bullets only. I have tested some hunting bullets with very poor results.

What has most of this crap have to do with the op.?

 

[Fig]

These are a good deal, fly good, and keel.

 

[Yondering]

These are a good deal, fly good, and keel.

And still yet another terrible choice for subsonic .30 cal hunting.

Some of you guys really don't get it, and don't sound like you've actually shot deer with the bullets you're recommending. Energy? Broadhead arrows? Come on guys, if you don't know what you're talking about, do you really feel the need to prove it to everyone else?

Spaniel's post above shows he knows what he's talking about, you'd do well to pay attention to what he said.

 

[Fig]

2 .300 BLK 220gr SGK

I’ve killed a half dozen with a .357, several dozen with a bow, more than chronic wasting disease with 7mm Mag and .30-06. My dad pretty much ONLY hunted with a 30-30, and killed more than you can dream. I have three Boone and Crocket deer from places in Missouri that don’t typically have them, so eat a bag of dicks ya dumbass. Killing a deer isn’t difficult at all. A 9mm our of a Glock will kill one with proper shot placement. Any cartridge that will penetrate, and preferably pass through, will kill. 220gr moving 1,100fps under 100 yards kills them deader than a doornail, no opening or mushrooming necessary. A .30 caliber wound channel is quite sufficient through the lungs ant the heart to end them quickly and ethically.

I used to think a 5.56 was too small to kill a deer. I was wrong. I hunt with guys who stack them, like the guys who hunt with a .300blk. Are you better off shooting a 180gr @ 2,800fps? Yes. Will a 220gr moving at 1,100 still kill? Yes. In fact it will almost always pass through on a broadside shot demonstrating its adequacy.

My state is full of deer. We don’t have the tough, armored ones that you do where you need magnums to kill them. In fact ours are so weak you can kill a trophy buck with an atlatl.

Which would you rather hunt with? An atlatl, or a .300blk with subs? On its best day a .30-30 throws a 160gr pill at 2,100fps. Is that inadequate to kill a deer too? Have you ever hunted with Corelokts? Do you think they expand like defensive handgun ammunition? Who doesn’t know what they’re talking about? Ridiculous.

 

[supercorndogs]

No, it's actually correct. Mass (225gr) has very little meaning if it's just penciling through. "Bigger is better", you say, and .358 is bigger than .308 and this is especially true when the .358 can expand and the .308 does not. At least the 9mm bullet is designed to expand at its launched velocity...and 9mm handguns are illegal to hunt big game (deer) with, pretty much everywhere I've ever hunted and for good reason. A sub 300BLK is about the same as shooting a deer with an arrow with a target point. Don't ever compare it to a broadhead, if you've ever bowhunted, you would known that a 1.25" broadhead cuts one hell of a big wound cavity.

I've been present when human sized living things were shot with 9mms and 40s, the results were completely unimpressive. We carry them because rifles and 44Mags are not practical as routine sidearms. But rounds in this performance range are totally inadequate for humane hunting.

With all the good options out there, it blows my mind that people try to bend themselves over to make such a shitty option serviceable.

Speaking of illegal, a 220g .308 at 1000fps only makes 550ftlbs of energy. Have to make 1000ftlbs to be legal in colorado for big game,

 

[Fig]

I would not shoot it at elk. I would not try to take an elk with a .30-30 either. Works fine on white tails under 100 yards though.

 

[supercorndogs]

View attachment 6944471
2 .300 BLK 220gr SGK

I’ve killed a half dozen with a .357, several dozen with a bow, more than chronic wasting disease with 7mm Mag and .30-06. My dad pretty much ONLY hunted with a 30-30, and killed more than you can dream. I have three Boone and Crocket deer from places in Missouri that don’t typically have them, so eat a bag of dicks ya dumbass. Killing a deer isn’t difficult at all. A 9mm our of a Glock will kill one with proper shot placement. Any cartridge that will penetrate, and preferably pass through, will kill. 220gr moving 1,100fps under 100 yards kills them deader than a doornail, no opening or mushrooming necessary. A .30 caliber wound channel is quite sufficient through the lungs ant the heart to end them quickly and ethically.

I used to think a 5.56 was too small to kill a deer. I was wrong. I hunt with guys who stack them, like the guys who hunt with a .300blk. Are you better off shooting a 180gr @ 2,800fps? Yes. Will a 220gr moving at 1,100 still kill? Yes. In fact it will almost always pass through on a broadside shot demonstrating its adequacy.

My state is full of deer. We don’t have the tough, armored ones that you do where you need magnums to kill them. In fact ours are so weak you can kill a trophy buck with an atlatl.

Which would you rather hunt with? An atlatl, or a .300blk with subs? On its best day a .30-30 throws a 160gr pill at 2,100fps. Is that inadequate to kill a deer too? Have you ever hunted with Corelokts? Do you think they expand like defensive handgun ammunition? Who doesn’t know what they’re talking about? Ridiculous.

I think a everyone has been saying a 160 at 2100 is way better than 160 at 1100, so why use it at 1100, when you can use it at 2100?

Those deer do look pretty small. I saw some wearing flack jackets and helmets out here the other day. There is a big difference between shooting a 300 pound half armadillo half deer at 300y, and shooting the spots of fawns from 25y off a corn feeder.

I mean that in jest. I really don't care how anyone chooses to fill their tags. You bought em, enjoy em. I like the idea of damaging less meat.

 

[Yondering]

2 .300 BLK 220gr SGK

I’ve killed a half dozen with a .357, several dozen with a bow, more than chronic wasting disease with 7mm Mag and .30-06. My dad pretty much ONLY hunted with a 30-30, and killed more than you can dream. I have three Boone and Crocket deer from places in Missouri that don’t typically have them, so eat a bag of dicks ya dumbass. Killing a deer isn’t difficult at all. A 9mm our of a Glock will kill one with proper shot placement. Any cartridge that will penetrate, and preferably pass through, will kill. 220gr moving 1,100fps under 100 yards kills them deader than a doornail, no opening or mushrooming necessary. A .30 caliber wound channel is quite sufficient through the lungs ant the heart to end them quickly and ethically.

I used to think a 5.56 was too small to kill a deer. I was wrong. I hunt with guys who stack them, like the guys who hunt with a .300blk. Are you better off shooting a 180gr @ 2,800fps? Yes. Will a 220gr moving at 1,100 still kill? Yes. In fact it will almost always pass through on a broadside shot demonstrating its adequacy.

My state is full of deer. We don’t have the tough, armored ones that you do where you need magnums to kill them. In fact ours are so weak you can kill a trophy buck with an atlatl.

Which would you rather hunt with? An atlatl, or a .300blk with subs? On its best day a .30-30 throws a 160gr pill at 2,100fps. Is that inadequate to kill a deer too? Have you ever hunted with Corelokts? Do you think they expand like defensive handgun ammunition? Who doesn’t know what they’re talking about? Ridiculous.

It's sorta comical how you cite all those deer kills with common rifle loads, as if that has anything to do with the discussion about subsonic hunting. You thinking that gives you credibility in this discussion kind of proves my point. Big difference between what those bullets do at 1,000 fps and at 2,000 fps, but most of us already know that.

A subsonic bullet pass through demonstrates it's adequacy? Um, no, that's the point you're missing. The lack of expansion and any significant peripheral damage from a subsonic solid means it'll have miles of penetration but very little effectiveness. How do you not see that?

Yeah, I've killed a fair number of deer with Corelokts (which your picture above is not, BTW). They work great - in their intended velocity range. Below that, they are just solids, like most rifle bullets. Again, what does that question have to do with subsonic hunting?

Nobody here is saying a typical hunting bullet in a subsonic load won't kill deer; we're saying they aren't nearly as effective as a properly designed bullet for the application, and leave zero margin for error.

Cool waterfall, but is that supposed to make you more credible too?

 

[Fig]

Because, hydrostatic schlock, temporary cavity, and the rest of the fud myths are bullshit. People and animals die because bullets make holes in them. This is the same thing as arguing a 9mm is inadequate for self defense but a .45 has “stopping power”. You’re just wrong. Exsanguinarion internally and externally is why people and animals die if it isn’t a CNS hit. A dozen people have tried to prove hydrostatic shock. While supersonic projectiles do create a minor femporary cavity they don’t actually do damage via hydrostatic shock till velocities beyond what most common bullets fly. You have to hit high varmint level speeds to start seeing actual hydrostatic shock damage. Way way faster than 3,000fps. And then that damage is minor next to the hole...

Really, you’ve cut Corelokts out of deer that we’re all mushroomed like a hollow Point? Bullshit. What are you shooting where the Corelokts don’t exit? A .30-30? Because your exit wound is slightly larger you think you fired a dum-dum? You’re wrong. They deform a little. They don’t mushroom. When you buy bonded “hunting” bullets they STAY together. That’s their selling point, penetration. It’s a Nosler, but that’s what they look like out of gell:

Malcom Dodd’s book “Terminal Balistics” dispels a lot of what you’re saying. A bigger wound channel is better than a smaller one, but the speed of the bullet is not imparting any more energy to the target than than what goes into your shoulder when you pull the trigger.
I do kill a lot of deer conventionally, and I’m not about to change over a couple of dB from subs. I have no interest in seeing how quietly I can shoot a deer, but to say it doesn’t work, or is unethical with a bullet that will penetrate “vitals” I.e. heart/lung is ignorant. I’ve watched guys kill deer with them. They hunted close woods where 50 yards was about all they had.
You’re just ignoring it, but again, what about .30-30 or 30 carbine? Those are pretty anemic cartridges, and I have cut those out of a DEAD deer. They were barely deformed too. Yet, millions of deer have been ethically harvested with a .30-30. In a lot of places, like wooded hills, where 50 yards is a typical shot, it’s all you need. I hunted with a .30-30 with iron sights in the woods till I picked up a Rem 35 and now I used that. You don’t need a ton of rifle to kill a deer. You just need to hit them in the plumbing. They’re dead in 10 minutes either way. The reason you don’t go tearing after the wounded deer when you shoot it is so it can lie down and bleed out. I’ve seen novices drive a wounded deer miles beyond where it would have died if he had sat tight for another ten minutes.

 

[spife7980]

You seem to be trying to both prove and disprove your and our points on each side. Not really sure what you’re arguing at.

But I agree, for deer a 30-30 (or, you know, a super sonic blackout) is plenty adequate. I also agree that it’s not worth shooting deer subsonic just to save a few decibels. So what are you debating?

What I don’t agree on is that letting an animal die 10 minutes later is a kind thing to do to life when you can easily put 10 more grains of powder and a 120-150 grain bullet on top of it instead.

 

[deersniper]

And still yet another terrible choice for subsonic .30 cal hunting.

Some of you guys really don't get it, and don't sound like you've actually shot deer with the bullets you're recommending. Energy? Broadhead arrows? Come on guys, if you don't know what you're talking about, do you really feel the need to prove it to everyone else?

Spaniel's post above shows he knows what he's talking about, you'd do well to pay attention to what he said.

Lol you have no idea the experience or lack thereof of the posters in this thread.

Some of these people that think you need a 7mag to kill a white tail sound like they don't have much experience.

 

[Fig]

I’ll tell you. I’ve been hunting deer 40 years almost every year except the early ‘90s when deployed. Almost always both bow and rifle. I’ve only started taking it to a processor since G&W

You seem to be trying to both prove and disprove your and our points on each side. Not really sure what you’re arguing at.

But I agree, for deer a 30-30 (or, you know, a super sonic blackout) is plenty adequate. I also agree that it’s not worth shooting deer subsonic just to save a few decibels. So what are you debating?

What I don’t agree on is that letting an animal die 10 minutes later is a kind thing to do to life when you can easily put 10 more grains of powder and a 120-150 grain bullet on top of it instead.

True, but I’m not crying over any ungulate food crop bing harvested. That’s how I see it, a crop to be managed. I “hunted” Caribou with some Inuvialuit friends. We walked towards the herd firing semi auto rifles. Quite a letdown from my visions of some sort of stalk, but they’re not interested in sport. They need the dry-meat. It’s the main part of their diet, and they’re be screwed without it. To say we don’t NEED to hunt is no different than saying we don’t NEED guns. It’s what we are. It’s who we are.

 

[Snuby642]

View attachment 6944433
These are a good deal, fly good, and keel.

I wondered why these were on back order everywhere, got the Hornady when I could find them.

 

[Dirty8404]

I’m going to preface this by saying I’ve seen a lot of deer killed by a .22 with head, neck, and heart shots, and meat in the freezer shot with a rimfire tastes just fine.

Because, hydrostatic schlock, temporary cavity, and the rest of the fud myths are bullshit.

This is wrong. Temporary stretch cavity is very real, and comes into play above ~2200 FPS if I recall correctly.

300 Blackout subs have a reputation for being ineffective because the bullets used are not designed for those low velocities. Treat them like a FMJ pistol bullet and shoot accordingly.

I was a corpsman and I can tell you firsthand that a FMJ pistol GSW is a very different thing than a rifle GSW. Pistol bullets make holes, and have only crush cavity wounding.

Exsanguinarion internally and externally is why people and animals die if it isn’t a CNS hit.

Exactly, and temporary stretch cavity (basically, bloodshot meat is TSC in my experience) leads to more damaged tissue and more blood loss. The exception to this is lung shots. TSC ruptures alveoli and facilitated bleeding in the lungs, basically suffocating the animal in its own blood.

I’d have no problem shooting a deer with a subsonic 308 bullet, but let’s not pretend that doing it is a plug-n-play affair like sticking a soft point .243 in the boiler room.

 

[Fig]

I would read the book I referenced. It tracks with what I’ve seen, and with an incredible amount of battlefield knowledge saving soldiers who were shot, including every corpsman I’ve ever talked to and some who’ve worked on me. We’re now arguing degrees. A rifle will do more damage than a handgun, period. But it’s still the hole, and it’s just a bigger wound channel kills faster than a smaller one. It’s insignificant next to there being a hole or not. Hence, a .30cal hole in any animal will kill it if it bleeds enough/keeps bleeding as an arterial hit will, also period.
What looks good on paper doesn’t track, and flesh does not behave like jello.
The amount of hydrostatic shock from a temporary cavity isn’t very significant. Yes, it makes the wound channel a little larger...most like a .223 turning into a .45 rather than 1” or 2”s, which is what it sounds like you think if slow bullets don’t kill.
The new hunting bullets that explode create lots of wound channels. I still prefer a bonded that stays together, but I can’t argue with the effectiveness if you hit them right.

 

[Fig]

I totally agree treat them like Fiji pistol bullets or a .30-30.

 

[Fig]

There are plenty of hunters who will try to tell you a .243 is way too small for deer. They’re wrong too.
There’s a difference between “inconclusive”, and “nonexistent”.

 

[408w]

So, a person is shot with a 22-250 at 4000fps in the shoulder vs having a say .308” sharp round piece of stake pushed through them at 1 FPS ( fast stab wound). That means nothing? In saying the .22 bullet will expand to .308 for comparison sake. One would be very painful and the other would take you off your feet and do tremendous damage.
-fig... get a new theory and read a new book.

 

[deersniper]

^ take you off your feet eh. O rly

 

[Fig]

Stopping power? Knockdown power?
I remember in Shane when Jack Wilson shot Stonewall Torrey with his Colt .45 and he was lifted off the ground and thrown ten feet back into the mud... I’ve carried a Colt SAA ever since!

To avoid misunderstanding, I’m not saying temporary cavity and hydrostatic shock aren’t real things. They are. Through soft tissue like brains they’re devastating, but muscle ain’t brains. I’m saying they’re not significant all things considered. A bigger wound channel is always better and more energy DOES make a bigger wound channel, just apparently not as much as you think it does...

They’re the spindrift of terminal ballistics.

But, I’m done here. Believe whatever you want to believe. You’re not going to go wrong shooting whitetails with magnums. They’re easier to kill the bigger you go, it’s just that they’re pretty easy to kill in the first place...

Good hunting.

 

[Yondering]

Fig, serious question - have you changed meds lately, or are you struggling with senility? I don't want to be harsh if you're dealing with a serious issue, but man, you are demonstrating some really erratic thought processes. I can't tell if you really have no idea what you're talking about, or are just having trouble making rational conclusions right now.

One big point you seem to be missing - all hunting bullets have a velocity window they're designed to work within, and subsonic speeds are typically not within that window for rifle bullets. For modern lead core rifle bullets, that window is typically ~1800-2000 fps on the low end and somewhere north of 3,000 fps on the high end. Too fast and they act like varmint bullets, too slow and they act like a monolithic solid. Subsonic speed is way below the minimum expansion threshold for any conventional high velocity rifle bullet; they don't do the same thing at 1,000 fps that they do at 2,000+. I'm not sure where you got the idea that velocity doesn't affect what the bullet does, but that's completely wrong.

I still have no idea why you keep bringing up Corelokts? Are you confused, or is there a point there? They work well and expand nicely for their intended use; they don't expand at all for subsonic use. What are you trying to say here?

 

[Fig]

You know what. That’s fine. Believe whatever you want to believe. Go shoot your “expanding” bonded bullets and knock deer into next week with all your power and energy. Try not to worry too much about all the people doing it wrong.

 

[loveha]

I have done a lot of reading on 300blk sub sonic hunting. I do mean a lot. I have come to three conclusions.
1. Choose a bullet designed for sub sonic speeds. Lehigh and Maker are the only two that come to mind, but I know there are a couple of others. I know Hornady has one, but I am not impressed with what I have seen in individual testing. Expansion is low and it tumbles, I am not into bullets that tumble.
2. Keep your distance close. 50 yards and in, but some will stretch it to 100 but that is to much in my opinion.
3. Keep it off the shoulder, treat it like you are bow hunting. Aim for the heart/lungs.

It is still loud, there is testing of how loud the bullet impact is down range. It is not for everybody. Many will find it pointless, or have done it and wont do it again, and some do it all the time with success.

The main thing, is just know the limitations of what you are shooting.

 

[Fig]

We’re just not going to agree about hollowpoint bullets. Expansion is nice. A slightly larger wound channel is nice, but that’s not the magic.
I carry a .380 a lot, and I have it loaded with LRNs because I know they’ll penetrate to vitals and arteries where as a lot of hollowpoints in an anemic, sub-caliber won’t ( In the p229 I carry Ranger Ts because they’ll open AND penetrate). With a speed limit under 1,100 FPS you need as much mass as you can get to punch through. The FBI doesn’t require a certain sized wound channel. They require a certain penetration.
Speaking of hollowpoints... Go look at the Lucky Gunner tests. While jello tests can only tell you some of the story (the human body in not made of ballistic gel) it does a good job of showing how effective modern bullet construction is Lucky Gunner Testing
All those factory defensive cartridges that fail.... Even if you know the exact velocity it’s very difficult to get the metallurgy perfect so you get holowpoint expansion. Trying to do it in a rifle with way more variables is even harder. Worrying about it is pointless if it penetrates. Bigger holes are better, but it’s a minor matter of degrees. This is why modern, fast 9mm is as good as .45. It penetrates to the vitals with a slightly smaller hole. Apples to oranges till you start talking pistol velocities. Then the bullet doesn’t care it came from a rifle.
Lots of people were pissed about these tests when their magic self defense rounds failed to preform, but really a failure to open is no big deal if the bullet penetrated enough to hit vitals and stop the attack. It’s the ones that opened and then only went a few inches that are dangerous to carry.
Again, bonded core (hunting) bullets are not “expanding” bullets. They deform, as they go through, but they don’t “open up” like a hollowpoint. The deformation is not significant; not significant like hydrostatic shock and temporary cavity. It’s still the hole you punch. Having an exit wound is a good thing.

If there are .30cal holowpoints that expand and penetrate as subs more power to you. I’m treating it like a 9mm sub and throwing the heaviest bullet that’s practical to ensure adequate penetration. Those deer above all had exit wounds. 220 SGKs will go through the deer. If you can’t kill going coast to coast broadside with a .30cal you need to work on your marksmanship.

If an atlatl (hand thrown dart) is ethical to take deer with a .300blk running subs certainly is. I agree that it’s a bow range cartridge.

 

[Fig]

That’s really it. I’m done. Further insults and gunwriter myths will be met with silence.

 

[Yondering]

I have done a lot of reading on 300blk sub sonic hunting. I do mean a lot. I have come to three conclusions.
1. Choose a bullet designed for sub sonic speeds. Lehigh and Maker are the only two that come to mind, but I know there are a couple of others. I know Hornady has one, but I am not impressed with what I have seen in individual testing. Expansion is low and it tumbles, I am not into bullets that tumble.
2. Keep your distance close. 50 yards and in, but some will stretch it to 100 but that is to much in my opinion.
3. Keep it off the shoulder, treat it like you are bow hunting. Aim for the heart/lungs.

It is still loud, there is testing of how loud the bullet impact is down range. It is not for everybody. Many will find it pointless, or have done it and wont do it again, and some do it all the time with success.

The main thing, is just know the limitations of what you are shooting.

That's a pretty good summary, your points all match my experience except for maybe the distance as I'm OK with a 100 yard shot. I shoot and hunt with several different subsonic rifle cartridges (including the 300 Blk of course) of various calibers and have seen a huge difference in the type of bullets used, which is what this thread was about. Just limit your shots appropriately for the bullet you're using.

 

[10ring1]

View attachment 6944471

Yep. Look dead to me. Good explanation Fig! Love the BLK!

 

[deersniper]

 

[Snuby642]

Prefered soft spot just under ear still available.
Wait for it, wait for it, oh shit wait might be a breeder.
Nope don't see browtines, press trigger slowly.

Cull!

 

[Snuby642]

Tomorrow we go down to feed, carpet blinds check trail cams and flood damage
If we can get through low water crossings.
Unfortunately tests on hogs with blk will have to wait for the new crimper, dont trust the Hornady 2 die set for a reliable crimp, will be getting the lee factory crimp.

Not too concerned if I make noise durring "off season" shoots.
Looks like first hog I see eats a 270, dang it!

 

[spaniel]

That’s really it. I’m done. Further insults and gunwriter myths will be met with silence.

Thank you for sparing us any more of this ignorance. "Bigger is better", but you can't comprehend why a .308 kills better than a 45ACP. LOL.

 

[spife7980]

Thank you for sparing us any more of this ignorance. "Bigger is better", but you can't comprehend why a .308 kills better than a 45ACP. LOL.

At subsonic speeds it doesn’t.

But subsonic speeds suck in general.

Shit. Why did I hop back in?

/Jetpack out

 

[XLR308]

Best 308 bullet, 178amax at 2650fps equals dead shit.
Keep the 300wound master for tacticool suppressed practice.

 

[Yondering]

At subsonic speeds it doesn’t.

But subsonic speeds suck in general.

That's not what the confused gentleman said though. He specifically said speed doesn't affect terminal performance, and he also seems to be saying hunting bullets in general don't expand. No idea why anyone would think that.

But you're right, best to let this one die. The OP should be able to figure out what's what by now.

 

[AP2020]

Lehigh Defense subsonic bullets.