300 prc vs 300 norma mag

[jaybigboy34]

So i read this article below that says the 300 prc outperformed the 300 norma mag in testing past 2000 yards. If both use the same bullet and both have low extreme spreads but the 300 norma mag is about 75fps faster, then how is this even possible? Does anyone know how they tested it?

US D.O.D. Awards Hornady with Contract to Supply 300 PRC Ammo

Hornady has been awarded a contract from the United States Department of Defense to supply 300 PRC ammunition for their long range sniper program.

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[RyanScott]

Lots of talk online about either a difference in twist favoring the PRC (9 outperforming 8) or the Norma having inconsistent ignition at high angle. Not sure how much stock I put in either.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Same way most .gov contracts do....

Cost, delivery ability, payment terms, contract cancellation policy, etc etc, and kickbacks.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[kthomas]

Hi,

Same way most .gov contracts do....

Cost, delivery ability, payment terms, contract cancellation policy, etc etc, and kickbacks.

Sincerely,
Theis

Yup - rarely does .gov choose what is the best performing and highest quality product.

 

[Steel head]

Lol
Obviously that test was run by stoned monkeys or someone With an agenda.

only plus I see for the PRC vs the Norma is the regular magnum bolt face.

 

[RyanScott]

Barrel life will be longer but modern rifles don’t have to go back to a shop in Virginia to be rebarreled anyway.

 

[SIDS01]

That's a Hornady press release, or based on one, and has little to do with reality.

The DOD ordered some barrels and ammo to test, they're not changing their fleet of rifles yet.

My guess on the outcome of the test is after they switch to the approved bullet, the 220smk, there won't be nearly enough performance benefit over the existing 300wm load to justify the cost of switching over.

 

[AIAW]

Surprised Barrett didn’t buy the procurement officers some more Louis XIII, fine Cubans and lap dances to get the 416B some contract lovin’. It worked for the MRAD platform ?

 

[Steel head]

Surprised Barrett didn’t buy the procurement officers some more Louis XIII, fine Cubans and lap dances to get the 416B some contract lovin’. It worked for the MRAD platform ?

You had me at Cubans and the lap dances make it a slam dunk.

 

[clcustom1911]

Any else notice that article was dated .....

December 2018

 

[THEIS]

Any else notice that article was dated .....

December 2018

Hi,

LOLOL I never opened the link to be honest......that is how much faith I have in any media accurately reporting on Gov procurement's and desires.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Johnny00K]

RecoilWeb Comparison (Probably written by Hornady)

"Norma gives up ground when it comes to case capacity. There’s a ton of room in there, and it’s impossible to fill it all up. This makes the cartridge sensitive to the rifle’s orientation when firing. " --- Rob Curtis, RecoilWeb

There it is, can't argue with that sound logic. The 300 Norma is unique as it is the only average size cartridge in the world that we just can't get enough powder into. Imagine how terrible it would be to have extra room for more powder...

 

[kthomas]

RecoilWeb Comparison (Probably written by Hornady)

"Norma gives up ground when it comes to case capacity. There’s a ton of room in there, and it’s impossible to fill it all up. This makes the cartridge sensitive to the rifle’s orientation when firing. " --- Rob Curtis, RecoilWeb

There it is, can't argue with that sound logic. The 300 Norma is unique as it is the only average size cartridge in the world that we just can't get enough powder into. Imagine how terrible it would be to have extra room for more powder...

Magazines always cater to their advertisers, there's a lot of bias built into magazine articles.

 

[Bigrederic]

I think 300 PRC is great if you are re-barreling a action. I think the 300 Norma is the way to go if you are starting from scratch. Norma has performance benefits over PRC, which seem to big if you are starting from scratch to ignore. It is why I went with 300 Norma.

 

[clcustom1911]

RecoilWeb Comparison (Probably written by Hornady)

"Norma gives up ground when it comes to case capacity. There’s a ton of room in there, and it’s impossible to fill it all up. This makes the cartridge sensitive to the rifle’s orientation when firing. " --- Rob Curtis, RecoilWeb

There it is, can't argue with that sound logic. The 300 Norma is unique as it is the only average size cartridge in the world that we just can't get enough powder into. Imagine how terrible it would be to have extra room for more powder...

Yeah.... read that and I was like "you're using the wrong powder". It's fair to say if you use a 230 grain SMK with Reloder 33 or US869 you'll get 90%+ fill volume with fantastic velocities (2800+) out of just a 24" barrel. .

 

[Bandit320]

Yeah.... read that and I was like "you're using the wrong powder". It's fair to say if you use a 230 grain SMK with Reloder 33 or US869 you'll get 90%+ fill volume with fantastic velocities (2800+) out of just a 24" barrel. .

Not trying to be argumentative, but I’m getting 2,860 out of a 26” 300 WM using 225 ELD-M coated with HbN. Edge of the primers are still rounded and no other pressure signs. I load them to approx. 3.68” so I have to shoot them single shot, but I’m okay with that. Are there other advantages to the Norma? Thanks,

Mike

 

[clcustom1911]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I’m getting 2,860 out of a 26” 300 WM using 225 ELD-M coated with HbN. Edge of the primers are still rounded and no other pressure signs. I load them to approx. 3.68” so I have to shoot them single shot, but I’m okay with that. Are there other advantages to the Norma? Thanks,

Mike

If you're good with that setup, which sounds awesome, then go with that. The powders I mentioned were from the Sierra load manual, not from my personal experience.

With the Norma, you'll be able to to get your same bullets to likely better velocities while being able to mag feed. The down side is you need a 338LM rated action and bolt face.

 

[AIAW]

I settled on this node out of a 28" Bartlein 1-9":

Bullet    Bullet Weight (gr)    Brass Manufacturer    Primer    Powder    Charge (gr)    OAL (in)    BTO (in)    SD    ES    MV (fps)    Temp (F)
ELD-M    225                    Lapua                 CCI 250    Retumbo    84.5            3.612        2.85     6     8    3006        96

Have a higher node near 3100 fps, but pressure signs/bolt lift were noticeable.

 

[clcustom1911]

300 Norma is better LOL <--- An article NOT written by Hornady

 

[Joeydias3]

I’ve got a 300 prc build going on. Hope this article is right. Lol ?

 

[clcustom1911]

I settled on this node out of a 28" Bartlein 1-9":

Bullet    Bullet Weight (gr)    Brass Manufacturer    Primer    Powder    Charge (gr)    OAL (in)    BTO (in)    SD    ES    MV (fps)    Temp (F)
ELD-M    225                    Lapua                 CCI 250    Retumbo    84.5            3.612        2.85     6     8    3006        96

Have a higher node near 3100 fps, but pressure signs/bolt lift were noticeable.

300NM?

 

[kthomas]

I’ve got a 300 prc build going on. Hope this article is right. Lol ?

Both are great cartridges. There's nothing wrong with the .300PRC. It certainly has its advantages: can be used with "regular" long actions, half decent barrel life with good performance.

You should be able to get marginally better performance out of a .300NM. But the cost is an action designed for .338LM (bigger, more expensive, less options) and short barrel life.

I have a .300NM rifle that I had built a bit over a year ago. I love it, it's a great rifle and cartridge and was the obvious choice back then for a "mid range ELR" rifle. If I had to make that same choice today, it would be a bit harder to make with the .300PRC around. I'm not sure what choice I would ultimately make today, I guess thankfully I don't have to.

Enjoy your .300PRC.

 

[AIAW]

300NM?

Yes sir!

 

[Joeydias3]

Both are great cartridges. There's nothing wrong with the .300PRC. It certainly has its advantages: can be used with "regular" long actions, half decent barrel life with good performance.

You should be able to get marginally better performance out of a .300NM. But the cost is an action designed for .338LM (bigger, more expensive, less options) and short barrel life.

I have a .300NM rifle that I had built a bit over a year ago. I love it, it's a great rifle and cartridge and was the obvious choice back then for a "mid range ELR" rifle. If I had to make that same choice today, it would be a bit harder to make with the .300PRC around. I'm not sure what choice I would ultimately make today, I guess thankfully I don't have to.

Enjoy your .300PRC.

That’s basically why I chose the prc. The regular mag face long actions. Will be using a bighorn origin. Can’t wait! First custom build, and first long action magnum.

 

[SIDS01]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I’m getting 2,860 out of a 26” 300 WM using 225 ELD-M coated with HbN. Edge of the primers are still rounded and no other pressure signs. I load them to approx. 3.68” so I have to shoot them single shot, but I’m okay with that. Are there other advantages to the Norma? Thanks,

Mike

The advantages of the 300 Norma over the 300WM are another 10 grains of water case capacity and the availability of Lapua brass. Berger loads the 230 Hybrids ~125 fps faster in the Norma than the WM. That'll cost 1/4 to 1/3 of the WMs barrel life. In practice, it's like moving a 2000 yard target about 100 yards closer. It might not be a great trade if you don't compete or chamber your own barrels.

I have a few 300WMs and a 300 Norma. I disagree that the 300WM belt is useless. It keeps the headspace on the first firing within reason. I had to neck a batch of Peterson 300 Norma brass up to 338 and back down to 30 because the shoulders were inconsistent and up to 16 thousandths short of my go gauge. It wouldn't have been a problem if the case had a belt. Yes, the belt creates another sizing step if you load them hard.

I haven't had much luck with the 225 ELDm at distance. The 230 Atips are the best I've tried for consistent BC and holding vertical deep into transonic speeds. I think the 300 PRC factory ammo is match grade, but the velocity spreads for match grade factory ammo will make it easy to out score with 300WM hand loaded for consistent velocity. If you try to load the 300 PRC, you're stuck with Hornady brass.

With appropriate bottom metal, CIP length AICS pattern magazines are available for the 300wm. The cheap PTG bottom metal uses an intermediate length magazine that you can load out to 3.700" with. 300 Norma doesn't feed great out of 338 Lapua AICS pattern magazines.

 

[BCX]

Its funny how the big manufactures release some data and ALL the arm chair warriors eat it up!!! 9MM, 6.5 CM, 6.5 PRC and now the 300 PRC.... What will be next year? 7MM Flatliners? I have read that factory 300 PRC numbers are horribly? Personally i would run a 300 NM or 338 LM AI over the 300 PRC.

 

[Nik H]

Let's do an apples to apples comparison

We will wait until the Hornady A-Tip becomes available in 338.

We will optimize case, primer, charge weight, barrel length and throat/chamber dimensions and shoot....300 PRC vs. 338 LM in optimized configurations...let's see the outcome at different distances

 

[BCX]

Let's do an apples to apples comparison

We will wait until the Hornady A-Tip becomes available in 338.

We will optimize case, primer, charge weight, barrel throat/chamber dimensions and shoot....300 PRC vs. 338 LM in optimized configurations...let's see the outcome at different distances

Is your 300 PRC together?

 

[Nik H]

Is your 300 PRC together?

I am on the side of 338LM

 

[camotoe]

 

[Steel head]

View attachment 7195302

300 Norma looks like 260‘s big brother.

 

[AIAW]

Sounds about right. FYI, I measure 102.7g H2O on 300NM Lapua unfired. 105.5g H2O fired.

 

[Rookie]

View attachment 7195302

I dont see the romance in the 300prc. It is totally eclipsed by 5 cartridges in the above pic which doesnt include the 30-378, king of the 30 cals. Had a range officer tell me the other day that 300prc kicks a** on the 300RUM. Wrong. For ELR the RUM holds 20+ grains more water than the PRC and 10 more than the NM. My accuracy node for a 212gr Eldx is 3060fps but I've easily hit 3200fps with literally no pressure signs. Granted I've only managed 1800 yards which is nothing compared to some of you but I'm still supersonic at 1800 and come ups from Strelok Pro are spot on at 63moa up.

Having said that, my gunsmith can afford to rebarrel his 300 Jerret every 500 rounds so maybe thats the king of 30s?

 

[Steel head]

I dont see the romance in the 300prc. It is totally eclipsed by 5 cartridges in the above pic which doesnt include the 30-378, king of the 30 cals. Had a range officer tell me the other day that 300prc kicks a** on the 300RUM. Wrong. For ELR the RUM holds 20+ grains more water than the PRC and 10 more than the NM. My accuracy node for a 212gr Eldx is 3060fps but I've easily hit 3200fps with literally no pressure signs. Granted I've only managed 1800 yards which is nothing compared to some of you but I'm still supersonic at 1800 and come ups from Strelok Pro are spot on at 63moa up.

I do.
it’s a moderate magnum with a bit more modern case design.
Not everyone wants to deal with the big magnums or needs that speed.

 

[RyanScott]

I dont see the romance in the 300prc. It is totally eclipsed by 5 cartridges in the above pic which doesnt include the 30-378, king of the 30 cals. Had a range officer tell me the other day that 300prc kicks a** on the 300RUM. Wrong. For ELR the RUM holds 20+ grains more water than the PRC and 10 more than the NM. My accuracy node for a 212gr Eldx is 3060fps but I've easily hit 3200fps with literally no pressure signs. Granted I've only managed 1800 yards which is nothing compared to some of you but I'm still supersonic at 1800 and come ups from Strelok Pro are spot on at 63moa up.

That’s cool but show me the magazine those RUMs feed from

 

[Rookie]

That’s cool but show me the magazine those RUMs feed from

Factory Sendero BDL internal mag box.

 

[RyanScott]

That’s why the Norma exists. To feed 230s from existing detachable magazines.

 

[Rookie]

And BTW, the 300wm case in the pic above should have been trimmed before it was fired the last time. The case was loaded into the lands. Bad mojo.

 

[Steel head]

And BTW, the 300wm case in the pic above should have been trimmed before it was fired the last time. The case was loaded into the lands. Bad mojo.

That’s probably a military crimped case.

 

[AIAW]

That’s probably a military crimped case.

That or a Lee factory crimp die. Looks like that same pattern.

 

[shoot4fun]

I own a Surgeon Scalpel built on a 1086 action (not XL) originally (and still) chambered in 300 Win Mag. It came from Surgeon when Surgeon was Surgeon (Preston) and has served me very well over he years. It's getting time to start looking at a new barrel and, until the 300PRC arrived, I was set on going back with another 300 Win Mag chamber but in 9 twist due to the fact I like the Berger 230 OTM. What now? I have two blanks, one is 9 and the other 8.5 twist. I already have 300WM brass and high quality dies. I already have the Larry Willis Collet Die to handle the belted brass. Why wouldn't I go back with 300WM? Well, truth is, I like the idea of just a little more powder from the PRC, the lack of the belt and the slightly longer neck. My biggest concern is 300PRC brass and just how many other manufacturers will get on the bandwagon.

 

[Steel head]

I own a Surgeon Scalpel built on a 1086 action (not XL) originally (and still) chambered in 300 Win Mag. It came from Surgeon when Surgeon was Surgeon (Preston) and has served me very well over he years. It's getting time to start looking at a new barrel and, until the 300PRC arrived, I was set on going back with another 300 Win Mag chamber but in 9 twist due to the fact I like the Berger 230 OTM. What now? I have two blanks, one is 9 and the other 8.5 twist. I already have 300WM brass and high quality dies. I already have the Larry Willis Collet Die to handle the belted brass. Why wouldn't I go back with 300WM? Well, truth is, I like the idea of just a little more powder from the PRC, the lack of the belt and the slightly longer neck. My biggest concern is 300PRC brass and just how many other manufacturers will get on the bandwagon.

I saw a picture of ADG 300 PRC brass so that’s in the works.
ADG is good brass.

 

[shoot4fun]

I saw a picture of ADG 300 PRC brass so that’s in the works.
ADG is good brass.

No doubt ADG is good stuff. I have 6.5PRC brass from ADG on hand. I have to say I am really liking that we have quality choices in brass such as ADG, Alpha and Peterson.

 

[Steel head]

No doubt ADG is good stuff. I have 6.5PRC brass from ADG on hand. I have to say I am really liking that we have quality choices in brass such as ADG, Alpha and Peterson.

Without them 7 saum would be pretty dead.

 

[Sig Marine]

300 Norma is better LOL <--- An article NOT written by Hornady

View attachment 7195132

Not quite sure where the picture of the PRC/Norma cases/rounds "clcustom1911" (post #19) came from but my PRC and .300 Norma Mag cases are not anything like the ones pictured. Here are the two cases I have for comparison; PRC left and Norma right. Easy to see the additional length of the PRC as well as the larger diameter of the Norma.

 

[Steel head]

Not quite sure where the picture of the PRC/Norma cases/rounds "clcustom1911" (post #19) came from but my PRC and .300 Norma Mag cases are not anything like the ones pictured. Here are the two cases I have for comparison; PRC left and Norma right. Easy to see the additional length of the PRC as well as the larger diameter of the Norma.
View attachment 7195632

lol
That article can’t even get the picture right.

 

[Rocketmandb]

My biggest concern is 300PRC brass and just how many other manufacturers will get on the bandwagon.

Right with you on the Hornady brass - I despise it. So, I've been prepping and fire forming RWS 8x68S and it is working well. Very easy to do, too. I also got my hydro forming die, but haven't set it up yet.

I put two videos up on Youtube on how to do it. Search under fire forming 300 PRC. I can do 20 cases in under half an hour using a bushing die, Forster trimmer with reamer attachment, and other standard stuff.

 

[shoot4fun]

Right with you on the Hornady brass - I despise it. So, I've been prepping and fire forming RWS 8x68S and it is working well. Very easy to do, too. I also got my hydro forming die, but haven't set it up yet.

I put two videos up on Youtube on how to do it. Search under fire forming 300 PRC. I can do 20 cases in under half an hour using a bushing die, Forster trimmer with reamer attachment, and other standard stuff.

Not a stranger to hydroforming brass at all. I've been shooting 6 Dasher since around 2004.
I do not despise Hornady brass as a whole. Quite the opposite, as I have had extremely good results from both their 6 & 6.5 Creedmoor brass over he years. I've shot thousands of rounds of Hornady ammo and it is good stuff too. I did run into an issue with one early lot of Hornady 6.5PRC brass but a quick call to Hornady tech and they took care of and then some. My whole point on brass is merely having multiple sources to choose from.

 

[kthomas]

I own a Surgeon Scalpel built on a 1086 action (not XL) originally (and still) chambered in 300 Win Mag. It came from Surgeon when Surgeon was Surgeon (Preston) and has served me very well over he years. It's getting time to start looking at a new barrel and, until the 300PRC arrived, I was set on going back with another 300 Win Mag chamber but in 9 twist due to the fact I like the Berger 230 OTM. What now? I have two blanks, one is 9 and the other 8.5 twist. I already have 300WM brass and high quality dies. I already have the Larry Willis Collet Die to handle the belted brass. Why wouldn't I go back with 300WM? Well, truth is, I like the idea of just a little more powder from the PRC, the lack of the belt and the slightly longer neck. My biggest concern is 300PRC brass and just how many other manufacturers will get on the bandwagon.

I wouldn't be surprised if the PRC gets a lot more component support.

 

[AIAW]

I wouldn't be surprised if the PRC gets a lot more component support.

I think it will, in time. Lapua among others is going to be key in that happening.

I want to build a 300 PRC, but I'm just covered up in 30 caliber magnums currently. I just don't see the benefit in me grabbing another when there are more interesting things on my "list". The 300NM is kicking ass... I think I'll wait and see how the component availability turns out in time.