300 prc vs 300 norma mag

[kthomas]

I think it will, in time. Lapua among others is going to be key in that happening.

I want to build a 300 PRC, but I'm just covered up in 30 caliber magnums currently. I just don't see the benefit in me grabbing another when there are more interesting things on my "list". The 300NM is kicking ass... I think I'll wait and see how the component availability turns out in time.

I hear ya. I love my .300NM and nothing is replacing it.

 

[shoot4fun]

I hear ya. I love my .300NM and nothing is replacing it.

In my case the 300 NM is out of contention as the case head is too large for my bolt.

 

[kthomas]

In my case the 300 NM is out of contention as the case head is too large for my bolt.

Nothing wrong with a PRC. Get a barrel spun up for it and stretch it out.

 

[Blaster7Romeo]

300 PRC is probably going to be a better call of you want to shoot factory ammo..

Why is a box of 300 NM so much higher ?

 

[Soulezoo]

You had me at Cubans and the lap dances make it a slam dunk.

He had me at the Louis XIII....

 

[NoLegs24]

@AIAW a Barrett MRAD with a proof carbon 300PRC barrel is calling your name...

 

[AIAW]

@AIAW a Barrett MRAD with a proof carbon 300PRC barrel is calling your name...

I wouldn’t mind that one bit! Just let me know where to send the soulless hookers, Louis XIII and Cohibas ?

5926 Miller Ln, Christiana, TN perhaps?

 

[kthomas]

I wouldn’t mind that one bit! Just let me know where to send the soulless hookers, Louis XIII and Cohibas ?

5926 Miller Ln, Christiana, TN perhaps?

Is that where @TheGerman lives?

 

[AIAW]

Is that where @TheGerman lives?

One of his summer houses is near there! Former surplus MRAD storage before the contract was awarded.

Gotta be poor somewhere else outside of Christiana Tennessee!

 

[Simia Dei]

@AIAW you run a 300NM improved?

 

[BCX]

300 PRC is probably going to be a better call of you want to shoot factory ammo..

Why is a box of 300 NM so much higher ?

Brass Quality?

 

[AIAW]

@AIAW you run a 300NM improved?

No sir, non-improved. I have two identical non-improved barrels currently, but after those are done with an AI might just get spun up.

 

[Blaster7Romeo]

Berger ammo has 300 norma priced at $93 /box and 300 win at $50 /box. And hornaday has 300prc in the $50 /per box area and 300 Norma at $100ish /box price.

That price difference never maid sense to me and kept me away from a 300 norma..

But it looks like Federal is gonna have a 300 norma loaded with a 215 berger for about $50 / box.. so I see that as a game changer for the norma in my eyes...

The thing the 300 prc has going for it is.. all you need is a barrle to upgrade your winmag.

 

[Simia Dei]

No sir, non-improved. I have two identical non-improved barrels currently, but after those are done with an AI might just get spun up.

Ah no worries, I'm chasing info on how the improved version feeds in an AXMC if anyone has had experience

 

[AIAW]

Ah no worries, I'm chasing info on how the improved version feeds in an AXMC if anyone has had experience

Wish I could help you out there. No experience with that, but I would imagine someone here is running 300NM AI in an AXMC.

 

[b2lee]

300 PRC is the VHS to the 300NM BETA. One was first to market, slighter better stats, a superior maker, but a little more expensive.....the other one won.

I am a proud owner of a 300PRC that planned to originally build a 300NM.

 

[BCX]

Berger ammo has 300 norma priced at $93 /box and 300 win at $50 /box. And hornaday has 300prc in the $50 /per box area and 300 Norma at $100ish /box price.

That price difference never maid sense to me and kept me away from a 300 norma..

But it looks like Federal is gonna have a 300 norma loaded with a 215 berger for about $50 / box.. so I see that as a game changer for the norma in my eyes...

The thing the 300 prc has going for it is.. all you need is a barrle to upgrade your winmag.

I believe the mag well must be opened up to CIP length to run from a CIP length mag for the 300 PRC.

 

[shoot4fun]

300PRC
From Hornady Load data:
230 Atip
COAL 3.685"
2,850 FPR 24" Test Barrel
300 WM
From Hodgdon:
230 Berger OTM
COAL 3.395"
2835 FPS 24" Barrel
My Personal Data:
230 OTM
WW Brass
Retumbo (charge weight redacted)
COAL 3.585"
2769 FPS with SD 5FPS
26" Krieger 1:10 twist

Do I have an extra .1" space in my standard long action AI mags? Probably, I'll have to check. I did check the specs on Surgeon 1086 and it shows the 3.685" COAL should feed from the mag into the action. If I were starting from scratch I would want a little more room to work with.

 

[jmw]

The advantages of the 300 Norma over the 300WM are another 10 grains of water case capacity and the availability of Lapua brass. Berger loads the 230 Hybrids ~125 fps faster in the Norma than the WM. That'll cost 1/4 to 1/3 of the WMs barrel life. In practice, it's like moving a 2000 yard target about 100 yards closer. It might not be a great trade if you don't compete or chamber your own barrels.

I have a few 300WMs and a 300 Norma. I disagree that the 300WM belt is useless. It keeps the headspace on the first firing within reason. I had to neck a batch of Peterson 300 Norma brass up to 338 and back down to 30 because the shoulders were inconsistent and up to 16 thousandths short of my go gauge. It wouldn't have been a problem if the case had a belt. Yes, the belt creates another sizing step if you load them hard.

I haven't had much luck with the 225 ELDm at distance. The 230 Atips are the best I've tried for consistent BC and holding vertical deep into transonic speeds. I think the 300 PRC factory ammo is match grade, but the velocity spreads for match grade factory ammo will make it easy to out score with 300WM hand loaded for consistent velocity. If you try to load the 300 PRC, you're stuck with Hornady brass.

With appropriate bottom metal, CIP length AICS pattern magazines are available for the 300wm. The cheap PTG bottom metal uses an intermediate length magazine that you can load out to 3.700" with. 300 Norma doesn't feed great out of 338 Lapua AICS pattern magazines.

Mine feeds like butter AICS CIP mausingfield action. I have no experience with the prc but my Norma was so easy to get a load for, it shot everything I tried in it well.

 

[Vasiggie]

300 Norma outperforms 300 PRC, but as we all know the Norma has issues at extreme testing. Having said that i love my 300 Norma and i think i might take it with me in the coffin, just in case, LOL. My 300 norma is a tack driver at 1000yrs shooting 4" clay pigeons, i have no complaints.

From what i understand DOD is not looking to move to another 30 cal variant. Perhaps SOCOM might be looking for something different but it will take a long time before it materializes but right now the good ole trusty 300 WM is the overall choice.

 

[spinlite]

" If you try to load the 300 PRC, you're stuck with Hornady brass."

This is no longer a disadvantage for the PRC since ADG makes very high quality Brass for 300 PRC.

 

[SIDS01]

" If you try to load the 300 PRC, you're stuck with Hornady brass."

This is no longer a disadvantage for the PRC since ADG makes very high quality Brass for 300 PRC.

The ADG brass has 4-5 grains of water less capacity than the Hornady, so you're down to pretty much 300 Win Mag case capacity with brass that costs twice what decent 300 Win Mag brass costs.

 

[b6graham]

The ADG brass has 4-5 grains of water less capacity than the Hornady, so you're down to pretty much 300 Win Mag case capacity with brass that costs twice what decent 300 Win Mag brass costs.

so guys getting 3050-3100 from a 215 hybrid can do that from a winmag?

 

[Rocketmandb]

so guys getting 3050-3100 from a 215 hybrid can do that from a winmag?

Also, we should introduce Mr. Apple, to Mrs. Apple for a valid comparison (ADG 300 WM to ADG 300 PRC).

 

[b6graham]

Also, we should introduce Mr. Apple, to Mrs. Apple for a valid comparison (ADG 300 WM to ADG 300 PRC).

?

 

[Rocketmandb]

?

He was comparing 300 PRC ADG case volume to 300 WM Hornady case volume - e.g. not apples to apples.

 

[Bandit31]

He was comparing 300 PRC ADG case volume to 300 WM Hornady case volume - e.g. not apples to apples.

He was comparing the ADG 300prc brass to Hornady 300PRC brass.

 

[Rocketmandb]

He was comparing the ADG 300prc brass to Hornady 300PRC brass.

Sort of both - he said it has less capacity then said it took it down to 300 WM volume... for Hornady.

 

[MOUNTIC]

Closest comparison I have at the moment below..

Hornady fireformed brass through sizing die bumping shoulder 2 thou., 76.9 gr RL26, 215 bergers. 3038 fps. Shows slight ejector and extractor marks.
ADG virgin brass. 77.0 gr RL26, 215 Bergers. 3048 fps. No pressure signs.

27"Tooley 300prc AXMC barrel.


Can't even get close to that in the win mag with 215s. Hornady, W-W Super, and ADG brass.


With the 27" Norma and Retumbo in the AXMC WinTac barrel, I'm at the same 3050 as the PRC but with 87gr and the 215s. Just barley seeing pressure at that load also.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Hornady fireformed brass, 76.9 gr RL26, 215 bergers. 3038 fps. Shows slight ejector and extractor marks.
ADG virgin brass. 77.0 gr RL26, 215 Bergers. 3048 fps. No pressure signs.

Your Hornady load is close to where I was seeing pressure signs with 225s. I've backed way down now, though - currently playing with 73.4 gr RL26 and 230 Bergers in ADG through a 28" Bartlein. Getting 2850 and liking the results. With that said, all my components for my new 300 PRC build should be in by early next week, so I get to do some more playing with loads. Same barrel length and twist, same chamber, different action, different stock.

 

[hseII]

Now that there’s been time to play, if building a new bolt gun ground up for LR & Hunting purposes detachable magazine, which to pick between The 300 PRC or 300 Norma since the MRADs will now be a Norma?

 

[shoot4fun]

Now that there’s been time to play, if building a new bolt gun ground up for LR & Hunting purposes detachable magazine, which to pick between The 300 PRC or 300 Norma since the MRADs will now be a Norma?

Since I started gathering the things I need to change over from 300WM to 300PRC I got a killer deal on a 300 Norma Mag (along with a bit of Berger ammo and 800 215 hybrid bullets). I still have the thought of completing the PRC project but now my mind wanders as to just what I want it to do. Obviously, I want it to be the replacement for my 300WM but I never shot that over 1,300 yards anyway. I think the 215 Hybrid bullet would do well in the 300PRC and that has me thinking of ordering a reamer with less free bore than the SAAMI spec. Does this make sense to anyone or should I just stay the course?

 

[hseII]

If it were me, I’d focus on one of them & try real hard to wear the barrel out while I forgot about the other.

 

[shoot4fun]

If it were me, I’d focus on one of them & try real hard to wear the barrel out while I forgot about the other.

Forgot to point out that my 300NM is the 35˚ improved version from Alex Wheeler. I already have the 6.5PRC and haven't shot the 300WM in a couple years. Decided it's going with me to the match next weekend.

 

[Rooster22]

Anyone on here have any experience with the 30 Sherman, seems ideal being able to shoot 300PRC and then reload to get more performance with fire formed 30 Sherman

 

[shoot4fun]

Anyone on here have any experience with the 30 Sherman, seems ideal being able to shoot 300PRC and then reload to get more performance with fire formed 30 Sherman

So 30 Sherman is an Ackley version of 300PRC?
From what I see the 30 Sherman adds about 100FPS over 300 PRC.

 

[gnochi]

So 30 Sherman is an Ackley version of 300PRC?
From what I see the 30 Sherman adds about 100FPS over 300 PRC.

Exactly. Note that 30 Sherman Magnum specifically is 300 PRC Improved; 300 Sherman is essentially a necked up and elongated 280AI.

 

[shoot4fun]

Exactly. Note that 30 Sherman Magnum specifically is 300 PRC Improved; 300 Sherman is essentially a necked up 280AI.

I am second guessing a change from 300WM to 300PRC when my current barrel is toast. Now that I have a 300NM Improved, along with looking over all the 300 PRC velocity numbers (compared to what I get in 300WM) I may just stay with 300WM on the next barrel. I'm getting 2,900 FPS with the 230 Hybrids from my 26" 300WM now and since I use a Innovative Technologies Collet Die on the base the belt is no issue.

 

[Rooster22]

So 30 Sherman is an Ackley version of 300PRC?
From what I see the 30 Sherman adds about 100FPS over 300 PRC.

I just started looking at them but I talked to Rich Sherman who is a super nice guy and he is loading 245 Berger’s at 3000fps, in a 28 inch barrel. I haven’t seen enough loads from people on the PRC side to know if the Sherman is worth it but lot of people seem to love it on long range hunting. Seems like you get good accuracy shooting prc out of it. Wanted to see if someone on here had one and could chrono prc out of a Sherman to see how much velocity is lost in the fire forming. Seems like pretty good set up to be able to use prc ammo when needed and get the extra velocity with a Sherman load. I like the idea of the flexibility but given I can’t buy ammo primers bullets or powder right now or probably even get an action I’m hoping someone does all the work to see if shooting a prc out of one is worth it

 

[EKane]

NF ELR Calibers & Cartridges – What The Pros Use

Over the past few weeks, I surveyed over 100 shooters who competed in this year’s Nightforce Extend...

precisionrifleblog.com

Cal Zant did a great writeup on 2020 Nightforce steel Challenge cartridges. Cant say that one is necessarily better than the other.
I went with the 300 Nancy and haven't looked back. The Lapua brass is awesome. After 8 firings I finally had to bump the shoulders back and trim the case a little. I can certainly get pressure. Ive tried H1000, Retumbo, and H50BMG.
Best load for me at the moment is
250 grain Hornady A tips Lapua brass
Base to Ogive 2,884 (jump 0.020”), case length trim 2.485”
necks .3365”-.3375”, 87 g H50BMG
5 shot average 2827fps, ES 26fps, SD 10.5fps
temp 82*F, 28.58 inHg, alt 1440ft
0.7 MOA @ 100 yards, recorded with magnetospeed
Ive had 88.5g H50BMG pushing the 250 ATips to 2885fps but the SD went to 13fps
Would love to try some VV N570 but cant find any.

Additionally I bought some Berger ammo and disassembled a cartridge and recorded my results.
Berger 300 Norma Mag 215 hybrid Ammo Part No. 65-62020
Base to Ogive 2.839”, 81.7 grains unknown powder, Lapua brass
5 shot average 3050fps, ES 27fps, SD 10fps
temp 60*F, 28.56 in Hg, alt 1500ft
All bullets were in the same hole @100 yards , recorded with chronograph

Berger 300 Norma Mag 230 OTM Hybrid Part No. 65-62010
Base to Ogive 2.774”, 79.4 grains unknown powder, Lapua brass
5 shot average 2908fps, ES 31fps, SD 11fps
temp 61*F, 28.54 inHg, alt 1500ft
.5MOA @100 yards, recorded with chronograph

Im running an SRS A1 with a SAC Bartlein 1:8 28"

 

[Frank Green]

That's a Hornady press release, or based on one, and has little to do with reality.

The DOD ordered some barrels and ammo to test, they're not changing their fleet of rifles yet.

My guess on the outcome of the test is after they switch to the approved bullet, the 220smk, there won't be nearly enough performance benefit over the existing 300wm load to justify the cost of switching over.

It’s not press release hype etc….

read my next post…

 

[Frank Green]

In reali

So i read this article below that says the 300 prc outperformed the 300 norma mag in testing past 2000 yards. If both use the same bullet and both have low extreme spreads but the 300 norma mag is about 75fps faster, then how is this even possible? Does anyone know how they tested it?

US D.O.D. Awards Hornady with Contract to Supply 300 PRC Ammo

Hornady has been awarded a contract from the United States Department of Defense to supply 300 PRC ammunition for their long range sniper program.

www.thefirearmblog.com

In reality the Norma is overloaded in my opinion when it first came out and or what some shooters where pimping they’re loads at. SAAMI just this past year corrected/lowered the safe working pressure of the Norma round.

In reality…and being practical the Norma doesn’t have anything ballistically over the PRC.

I’ve seen more test data on both rounds then I care. Made more test barrels for both than I can count/remember since both have come out.

I almost built my new f open gun and was so close to doing the Norma but more and more data I seen on the PRC I went PRC. Even if the Norma is 25 or 75fps faster….doesn’t mean it’s better. The other deciding factor for me was using a standard mag bolt face. Gives me more options for different calibers as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels.

 

[b2lee]

Also, Thank you @Frank Green for making all the barrels that allow my 300PRC to win and outshine many 300NM and bigger calibers in the 1mile + game. I too, originally planned a 300NM build and then went 300PRC back in late 2018.

To me, a 300NM is a waste of that bolt face. If you have that bolt face, rebarrel to a 33XC and call it a day.

 

[Garvey]

In reali

In reality the Norma is overloaded in my opinion when it first came out and or what some shooters where pimping they’re loads at. SAAMI just this past year corrected/lowered the safe working pressure of the Norma round.

In reality…and being practical the Norma doesn’t have anything ballistically over the PRC.

I’ve seen more test data on both rounds then I care. Made more test barrels for both than I can count/remember since both have come out.

I almost built my new f open gun and was so close to doing the Norma but more and more data I seen on the PRC I went PRC. Even if the Norma is 25 or 75fps faster….doesn’t mean it’s better. The other deciding factor for me was using a standard mag bolt face. Gives me more options for different calibers as well.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels.

Bartlein 30" 1:8 MTU contour, Fat Bastard brake.

250 gr A-tip on virgin Lapua, and a new barrel 2980 fps MV. I did load testing shooting a ladder test at 700 yards. Group testing was also at 700 yards. 1/4 MOA barrel and load, typical of Bartlein.

Thank you Bartlein barrels for being so reliable! You are always my first pick for any project.