300 PRC

[markl323]

Cci200s gave me better SDs then 210M or mag primers.

Most my SDs are in the 6 to 10 range.

Also single SDs as cool as they are doesn’t necessarily mean smaller groups.

thanks for that suggestion. I tried the CCI 200's, 210M's and 215M's with Retumbo (76.4gr) and the CCI's were the best and easy to find too! I shot 3x 5 shot groups for each type of primers. and SDs for the CCI 200's were 13, 12, 3. significantly better than the other two primers.

how do some people get their SDs down to 4-6? my steps are as followed:

anneal
full length size (with neck bushing - but no shoulder bump possible yet since brass have only fired once)
ultrasonic clean brass
dry brass
trim brass with 21st Century case trimmer
chamfer, deburr case mouth
apply imperial dry lube case mouth then mandrel (0.002" tension) twice
seat primers with 21st Century primer seater (0.002" crush - as in below flush?)
dispense powder with the A&D FX-120i scale
apply Imperial Dry Wax on bullets (Berger 220 LRHT)
seat bullets with 21st Century inline bullet seater and K&M pressure gauge. then use the ones that have unusually higher seating pressure for sighters.

I also shot when it was 100F. not sure if that caused high SDs?

 

[markl323]

I tested the CCI 200s with N565 and got a better SDs on average. Again I did 3x 5-shot groups. SD for each were 8.8, 9.3 and 5.1.

I also tried the CCI 250s with this powder as well and they are not as good, at least for this gun.

 

[Williamtell]

What’s your first thought on this factory ammo chambered and then ejected?

A little late replying, but have you used a borescope? Have you checked for carbon ring/deposits?

 

[robozebra]

Anyone have experience with a 210 Cayuga in 300 PRC? I’ve shot the 7mm (151 and 170) in my SAUM and have had great results. Considering 210 in my new 300 PRC. 24” Bartlein CFW LH gain twist 1:9 to 1:8.

 

[SEPAboltrifle]

Are you considering the 210 grain Cayuga strictly for hunting application?
If the intended applicaiton is long range target then you might consider PVA .30 caliber 212 grain Seneca solid projectile. PVA advises 1:8 twist rate required to stablize the Seneca 212 grain projectile.

 

[robozebra]

I was planning on using the 300 PRC for hunting. Specifically an elk hun in Colorado at end of Oct.

 

[KiloGolf]

Hey everyone, I have an awesome load worked up for my 300prc, but its with H1000. I'm thinking of changing powder since I only have 2.5lbs of H1000 left. Main reason is, it seems to be easier to get Vihtavuori here in Canada, also its cheaper as well with H1000 at $100/ lb now. I started stock piling N570 for my 338 edge, other forums show great success with N570 in 300prc. N570, if I remember right is $160/ 2.2lbs.

Has anyone else found N570 a good powder for 300prc with 225gr eldm, or similar bullets? What main Vihtavuori powders are you guys using for 300prc?

 

[Dog Doc]

This may be a dumb question but going to ask. I do not have a 300PRC yet but considering it for long range fun. It seems everyone goes with heavy bullets. I recently tried the 169gr Sierra HPBT CT for my 308. It turned it in to a new rifle and hits at 1000 about as easy as my creed. Just curious, could this bullet be used in 300PRC?

 

[markl323]

Hey everyone, I have an awesome load worked up for my 300prc, but its with H1000. I'm thinking of changing powder since I only have 2.5lbs of H1000 left. Main reason is, it seems to be easier to get Vihtavuori here in Canada, also its cheaper as well with H1000 at $100/ lb now. I started stock piling N570 for my 338 edge, other forums show great success with N570 in 300prc. N570, if I remember right is $160/ 2.2lbs.

Has anyone else found N570 a good powder for 300prc with 225gr eldm, or similar bullets? What main Vihtavuori powders are you guys using for 300prc?

I'm developing a load for a new 300 PRC barrel. so far I have tried:

1. H1000 with Berger 220 LRHT
2. N565 with Berger 220 LRHT
3. N565 with Berger 215 HT
4. N570 with Berger 245gr LRHT

- 3 has the smallest groups but very high ES/SDs
- 4 has endless vertical strings
- 1 groups well but has higher ES/SD than 2
- 2 has the lowest ES/SD but does not group as well as 1

I'm continuing with 1 & 2, trying with different primes now.

 

[HemiPowrd]

This may be a dumb question but going to ask. I do not have a 300PRC yet but considering it for long range fun. It seems everyone goes with heavy bullets. I recently tried the 169gr Sierra HPBT CT for my 308. It turned it in to a new rifle and hits at 1000 about as easy as my creed. Just curious, could this bullet be used in 300PRC?

I suppose you could use it, but why? The real advantage of heavier bullets is the higher bullet coefficient giving a flatter trajectory at long distances. A heavier bullet is also less affected by wind which is also important at long distance. The real question you should first answer is how far are you planning to shoot it? If 1000 yards is your max distance then there really isn't much reason to go with 300PRC unless you are going to hunt with it, but then you'd still want a heavier bullet in that case as well.

ETA: Forgot to mention in a standard 300PRC chamber a bullet that short would have to jump a long way to get to the rifle lands. Not even sure that would work.

 

[375fan]

Hey everyone, I have an awesome load worked up for my 300prc, but its with H1000. I'm thinking of changing powder since I only have 2.5lbs of H1000 left. Main reason is, it seems to be easier to get Vihtavuori here in Canada, also its cheaper as well with H1000 at $100/ lb now. I started stock piling N570 for my 338 edge, other forums show great success with N570 in 300prc. N570, if I remember right is $160/ 2.2lbs.

Has anyone else found N570 a good powder for 300prc with 225gr eldm, or similar bullets? What main Vihtavuori powders are you guys using for 300prc?

I use 565 with 230 A-Tips in my 300prc. It's a little faster burning than H1000 but the load works/shoots well.

 

[Frank Green]

I'm developing a load for a new 300 PRC barrel. so far I have tried:

1. H1000 with Berger 220 LRHT
2. N565 with Berger 220 LRHT
2. N565 with Berger 215 HT
3. N570 with Berger 245gr LRHT

- 2 has the smallest groups but very high ES/SDs
- 3 has endless vertical strings
- 1 groups well but has higher ES/SD than 2
- 2 has the lowest ES/SD but does not group as well as 1

I'm continuing with 1 & 2, trying with different primes now.

Try CCI#200s if you haven’t.

In my gun…going from 210Ms I cut my SD’s down to 10 or lower. Mostly between 6.7 to 10. I’m running 76.0 of H1000 behind 230gr ATIP’s or 230SMK and it worked excellent with 225 ELDM’s as well. I went up to 78.0 but after getting some ammo pressure tested…76.0 is a max working load pretty much even though at 78 showed no pressure signs or hard bolt lift etc…

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[375fan]

thanks for that suggestion. I tried the CCI 200's, 210M's and 215M's with Retumbo (76.4gr) and the CCI's were the best and easy to find too! I shot 3x 5 shot groups for each type of primers. and SDs for the CCI 200's were 13, 12, 3. significantly better than the other two primers.

how do some people get their SDs down to 4-6? my steps are as followed:

anneal
full length size (with neck bushing - but no shoulder bump possible yet since brass have only fired once)
ultrasonic clean brass
dry brass
trim brass with 21st Century case trimmer
chamfer, deburr case mouth
apply imperial dry lube case mouth then mandrel (0.002" tension) twice
seat primers with 21st Century primer seater (0.002" crush - as in below flush?)
dispense powder with the A&D FX-120i scale
apply Imperial Dry Wax on bullets (Berger 220 LRHT)
seat bullets with 21st Century inline bullet seater and K&M pressure gauge. then use the ones that have unusually higher seating pressure for sighters.

I also shot when it was 100F. not sure if that caused high SDs?

I may not have seen it but what is your barrel length and twist?
How much time between shots when shooting on 100 degree day? Temperatures like that could be a issue on your sd's.

 

[Dog Doc]

I suppose you could use it, but why? The real advantage of heavier bullets is the higher bullet coefficient giving a flatter trajectory at long distances. A heavier bullet is also less affected by wind which is also important at long distance. The real question you should first answer is how far are you planning to shoot it? If 1000 yards is your max distance then there really isn't much reason to go with 300PRC unless you are going to hunt with it, but then you'd still want a heavier bullet in that case as well.

ETA: Forgot to mention in a standard 300PRC chamber a bullet that short would have to jump along way to get to the rifle lands. Not even sure that would work.

Thank you for this. I am not used to magnums yet and it just seems like some calibers like smaller bullet weight for faster fps. You statement makes a lot of sense. I am just so impressed with it in my 308 I was just wondering what else this bullet would do well in.

 

[KiloGolf]

Thanks for the response. I'll do some figuring on N565 and compare to N570 and N568. I think I'm done with H1000.

I also heard guys are getting lower SD and ES with large rifle primers instead of magnum primers at king of 2 mile Canada.

 

[markl323]

I use 565 with 230 A-Tips in my 300prc. It's a little faster burning than H1000 but the load works/shoots well.

curious what does your ES/SD look like and with what primers?

I may not have seen it but what is your barrel length and twist?
How much time between shots when shooting on 100 degree day? Temperatures like that could be a issue on your sd's.

this was back when I was still using the original barrel that came with the rifle, 26" in length and 1.8 twist. do you believe barrel length or twist rate can contribute to higher ES/SD? I used an air pump to cool the barrel to about the same temperature with every shot (1-2m). I make sure it's about the same level of warmness every time but never completely cool.

after that round of testing, which was done with virgin brass, I was able to reduce the SD down a bit to 7.72 (the average of 3x 5-shot groups) by shoulder bumping, trimming case, de-burring, chamfering case mouth and increasing neck tension from 0.0025" to 0.0035".

 

[markl323]

Try CCI#200s if you haven’t.

In my gun…going from 210Ms I cut my SD’s down to 10 or lower. Mostly between 6.7 to 10. I’m running 76.0 of H1000 behind 230gr ATIP’s or 230SMK and it worked excellent with 225 ELDM’s as well. I went up to 78.0 but after getting some ammo pressure tested…76.0 is a max working load pretty much even though at 78 showed no pressure signs or hard bolt lift etc…

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

curious have you also tried BR-2 or 215M? after months of searching I have found some.
last time I tried H1000 with Berger 220 LRHT and CCI 200, my SD was about 7.3 (average of 3x 5-shot groups). ES was below 24. it is almost as good as N565 + CCI 200. the ES "spikes" with N565 are smaller.

 

[375fan]

curious what does your ES/SD look like and with what primers?

this was back when I was still using the original barrel that came with the rifle, 26" in length and 1.8 twist. do you believe barrel length or twist rate can contribute to higher ES/SD? I used an air pump to cool the barrel to about the same temperature with every shot (1-2m). I make sure it's about the same level of warmness every time but never completely cool.

after that round of testing, which was done with virgin brass, I was able to reduce the SD down a bit to 7.72 (the average of 3x 5-shot groups) by shoulder bumping, trimming case, de-burring, chamfering case mouth and increasing neck tension from 0.0025" to 0.0035".

federal 215m, es runs 10-15

 

[markl323]

federal 215m, es runs 10-15

I have to try this out this weekend now. Last time I tried 215M with Retumbo, the numbers weren’t good at all.

 

[375fan]

I have to try this out this weekend now. Last time I tried 215M with Retumbo, the numbers weren’t good at all.

Forgot to mention, I tried 568 and was way too slow for me. Even with filling the case to the point where I was compressing powder when seating the bullet I couldn't get velocity anywhere close to what I was looking for or wanted. 28" barrel.

 

[markl323]

Forgot to mention, I tried 568 and was way too slow for me. Even with filling the case to the point where I was compressing powder when seating the bullet I couldn't get velocity anywhere close to what I was looking for or wanted. 28" barrel.

Thanks for the heads up.

I plan to try 215M and 210M with H1000 and N565.

 

[Frank Green]

curious have you also tried BR-2 or 215M? after months of searching I have found some.
last time I tried H1000 with Berger 220 LRHT and CCI 200, my SD was about 7.3 (average of 3x 5-shot groups). ES was below 24. it is almost as good as N565 + CCI 200. the ES "spikes" with N565 are smaller.

Other than 210Ms no I have not. In the past 215M's in other calibers gave me bigger deviations.

Again the 200's are working so good for me.... I'm not going to mess with it.

If you fired 15 shots and your SD is at 7.3... run it bud!

 

[markl323]

If you fired 15 shots and your SD is at 7.3... run it bud!

who knows it may get even lower

 

[Taylorbok]

I wish I could find enough primer selection to even have the option to test

 

[markl323]

I wish I could find enough primer selection to even have the option to test

Taylor,
Took me months to get 210M and 215M. I subscribed to shootingbot so that helped. I never got a notification for BR-2. Not even a false one, so in the end I bought them on gunbroker just to see what the fuss is all about. Speaking of that, someone is selling Tulammo primers (Russian made) there right now at a decent price. I hear they produce very low ES/SD. Too bad the seller does not ship to my state.

 

[markl323]

210 and 210M

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www.powdervalley.com

 

[markl323]

N565 + BR-2 with neck turned brass and lower neck tension. ES/SD looks good but the groups are not.
N565 + 210M groups well but ES/SD are not as good.

 

[375fan]

N565 + BR-2 with neck turned brass and lower neck tension. ES/SD looks good but the groups are not.
N565 + 210M groups well but ES/SD are not as good.


View attachment 8533514

View attachment 8533516

Load up 20 of the C3 and go set up some fresh painted steel at distance to see real world performance. By distance, I mean starting at 1000 and going to at least a mile if possible.

 

[Frank Green]

N565 + BR-2 with neck turned brass and lower neck tension. ES/SD looks good but the groups are not.
N565 + 210M groups well but ES/SD are not as good.


View attachment 8533514

View attachment 8533516

Don't get to hung up on the SD and ES. Your numbers are good.

Even at a 10SD my gun will hold 1/4 to 1/3moa at a 1k yards.

 

[HemiPowrd]

Testing a reduced powder charge today. I wasn't seeing any signs of overpressure, but 2953 fps seemed like it was probably too hot even for a 30" barrel - definitely not good for barrel life. I'll need to do further testing to verify, but 76.0 grains of H1000 looks promising!

 

[375fan]

Testing a reduced powder charge today. I wasn't seeing any signs of overpressure, but 2953 fps seemed like it was probably too hot even for a 30" barrel - definitely not good for barrel life. I'll need to do further testing to verify, but 76.0 grains of H1000 looks promising!
View attachment 8538301

The 2953fps load you mention, is that the 230Atip w/H1000 load you mentioned/posted a few months ago? That 30" barrel probably really helps with getting that velocity without being too hard on barrel, IMO.
I'm running the 230Atip @2940 using N565 out of 28" barrel. Probably max where I'm at but shoots well.

 

[HemiPowrd]

The 2953fps load you mention, is that the 230Atip w/H1000 load you mentioned/posted a few months ago? That 30" barrel probably really helps with getting that velocity without being too hard on barrel, IMO.
I'm running the 230Atip @2940 using N565 out of 28" barrel. Probably max where I'm at but shoots well.

Yes 230 gr ATips over 77.1 gr of H1000. Frank had mentioned that my load might be too hot so I'm going to see what happens if I go with a bit less powder.

 

[Outlaw45]

I started using Retumbo and 220 LRHT but could never get it to group and velocity was low. I switched to N570 and saw that it wanted to group. I settled on 81.0 of N570 with 220 LRHT which was 2860 fps at the end of summer. I'll try going up to 82.0 then test out seating depth.

My question is with lighter bullets like 220 LRHT or 220, 212 ELD-X what powder do you suggest? I have N570 or H1000? What velocity should I target with 220gr bullets?

 

[375fan]

I started using Retumbo and 220 LRHT but could never get it to group and velocity was low. I switched to N570 and saw that it wanted to group. I settled on 81.0 of N570 with 220 LRHT which was 2860 fps at the end of summer. I'll try going up to 82.0 then test out seating depth.

My question is with lighter bullets like 220 LRHT or 220, 212 ELD-X what powder do you suggest? I have N570 or H1000? What velocity should I target with 220gr bullets?

What is your barrel length?
I've never used N570.
I'd go with H1000 (so versatile ) or N565 which is slightly faster burning than H1000.

 

[Frank Green]

Yes 230 gr ATips over 77.1 gr of H1000. Frank had mentioned that my load might be too hot so I'm going to see what happens if I go with a bit less powder.

Your at max for sure. Are you over? Maybe maybe not.

My ammo in a pressure test barrel.... when I went to I think it was 76gr.... was right at or just over the max limit. I did shoot like 10 rounds prior to that at 78gr of H1000. Stupid accurate and no tell tale signs of pressure at all. Bolt lift etc... all ran like normal but after finding out what my loads where running at... I backed it off to 76 and running it there. Still stupid accurate.

The Hornady manual is showing a max load at 77.5.

Why did my ammo at 76 load go over by 5k psi? Different lot of powder, different primers, different lot of bullets, brass etc... all of these variables make a difference. Here is a pic of one of the data sheets....

The velocity out of my gun is 2900fps but my barrel is 32" long.

 

[markl323]

I started using Retumbo and 220 LRHT but could never get it to group and velocity was low. I switched to N570 and saw that it wanted to group. I settled on 81.0 of N570 with 220 LRHT which was 2860 fps at the end of summer. I'll try going up to 82.0 then test out seating depth.

My question is with lighter bullets like 220 LRHT or 220, 212 ELD-X what powder do you suggest? I have N570 or H1000? What velocity should I target with 220gr bullets?

I have tried Retumbo + 220 LRHT with 3 types of primers, CCI 220, 210M and 215M. The combos that grouped well had bad ES and ED (210M and 215M). and the combo that produced good ES and SD (CCI 200) did not group at all.

Most people use N570 with heavier bullets (i.e Berger 245gr). For your lighter bullets, they tend to use H1000 or N565 as alternatives as 375fan said above. But if you don't require a specific speed, I would try several powders, bullets and primers and see what work best for you in terms group sizes and ES/SD. do ladder test for several bullet/powder/primer combo and see which ones group the best and have the lowest ES/SD. in my limited experience, the "best" powder or "best" primers or powder/primer combos didn't work for me. (i.e H4350, H1000, 215M).

 

[Outlaw45]

What is your barrel length?
I've never used N570.
I'd go with H1000 (so versatile ) or N565 which is slightly faster burning than H1000.

24"

 

[markl323]

Testing at the range last weekend, I was able to reduce ES/SD significant from 10 FPS to about 6.7 FPS by using turned necks and lighter neck tension.

Summary
1. the first groups of all 3 configs all have bad ES. perhaps due to low case fill ratio? I removed A1, B1, C1 from all calculations.

2. the rest of the groups have SD ranges from 2-9 FPS, except for B5. it could be a process issue.

3. previously, neck thickness of 0.014" and NT 0.0035" has been tried with N565 + BR-2 and it has produced disappointing ES/SD. now neck thickness of 0.014" and 0.001" NT has also not performing. data suggests the gun does not like thick necks but rather thin necks when it comes to ES/SD.

4. previously neck thickness of 0.012" and NT 0.0025" has been tried with N565 + BR-2 and the average SD was 7.7 FPS. this run gives 6.72 FPS for N565 + 210M. this is the second time we see this neck thickness + NT combo work. for both of these groups, there is no negative velocity delta, indicating stable MV? for the 210M groups, all are below 18 ES and 8 SD. this neck thickness and tension is the combo choose.

5. looking at group Bs and Cs, any time MV is between 2850 and 2890, we have a good group. looks like the group size is determined by the MV not the charge weight. so C at 2870 FPS (74.2 gr) is the chosen charge weight.

6. 0.0015" tension is not stable regardless of neck thickness. something always goes wrong. for A, (with thicker necks), the speed deltas are like a roller coaster. for B, (with thinner necks), B5 has an SD of 13 and Velocity Delta is 24 FPS went going from B3 to B4.

Notes:
1. heavy bolt lift for many groups, even when shooting B2. this is the first time I'm hitting this and these charges are way below VV recommended max load. the only culprit I can think of is that this time, the shoulder length (2.1940") being only 0.0015" smaller than the max shoulder length of the fired cases (2.1955"). perhaps Magnum cartridges require 0.002" or longer shoulder bump?

2. choosing B (0.29 MOA) or C (0.43 MOA)? difference is 0.14 MOA
at 1000 yards
1000 yards 2870 fps drop -252.37"
if ES difference is +10 FPS, drop is -250.34", difference is 2" (0.2 MOA). so C is better.
if ES difference is +30 FPS, drop is -246.36", difference is 6" (0.6 MOA)

1700 yards 2870 fps drop -1033.60"
ES difference is +10 FPS, drop is 1025.3", difference is 8.3" = 0.45 MOA. C is much better.
ES difference is +30 FPS, drop -1007.83" difference is 25" = 1.5MOA

to do's:
- adjust seating depths with C
- try 12 rounds with no mandrel and no lube
- try 12 rounds with 215M
- try 12 rounds with White River LRP
- try 12 rounds with White River LRMP

 

[markl323]

best neck thickness + neck tension combo so far.