.300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

[Bunnyack]

OK, I had this topic on .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM. Most people ended up recommending the .300 win. mag for long-distance shooting (up to 1200 yards). But looking at ballistic charts and so on, the .300 WSM produces both higher velocity and energy (for example with a 165gr nosler) than the .300 win mag.
Plus it is unbelted... I have been told the belt affects accuracy in a negative way. So wich one should I choose?

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

once again?

Okay same answer as before, they are both good for 190 or less grain bullets, but if you want to shoot anything bigger than that, the WM takes the lead.

 

[Bloody_Tailgate]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

How would the belt affect accuracy? If it does than <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">PLEASE</span></span> nobody tell my WM it shouldn't shoot as good as it does.

They're both equally as likely to shoot well, but in my experience the WSM is a little harder to find a load for.

And are you really going to be that concerned with an extra 50 or 100 fps? Just buy one and shoot the hell out of it, you'll never notice the loss or gain in speed.

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bloody_Tailgate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How would the belt affect accuracy? If it does than <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">PLEASE</span></span> nobody tell my WM it shouldn't shoot as good as it does.

They're both equally as likely to shoot well, but in my experience the WSM is a little harder to find a load for.

And are you really going to be that concerned with an extra 50 or 100 fps? Just buy one and shoot the hell out of it, you'll never notice the loss or gain in speed.</div></div>
The belt has no effect on accuracy but sometimes feeding.
As meantioned before, they are practically dead even up to 190 grain bullets, beyond that the Win Mag has the advantage.
If handloading, the WSM uses less powder but the cost difference is probably not worth meantioning.
Win Mag is easier to find in stores if wanting store bought shells.
I love the 300 WSM and handload for it, It's just a hotter, fatter 308 WIN in my opinion but it's not the holy grail of a bullet.
Both are good in my opinion.
....SmokeRolls

 

[BobinNC]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

Bunny,

Stop looking a ballistic charts for factory ammo for starters.

First some elemental internal ballistics:

300 Win Mag case capacity 87 grains
300 WSM case capacity 81 grains

Hint: which is bigger????

Next belts have been put on cases since about 1909 or so. If they affect accuracy negatively, I think we might have heard about before now.

Now a belt on case for headspacing was needed when the 375 H&H and 300 H&H were invented, and they may be an unnecessary implement, but if you know how to reload them they don't hurt or help accuracy, they just are..... When you reload you learn to deal with them.

Next, the companies that make match 300 WSM ammo are two: Cor- Bon and HSM. And the sum total of their loads are one each. Not a vast selection.

If you don't reload the 300 Win Mag is the way to go if for no other reason is the large selection of fine factory match ammo.

If you reload, then if you go the WSM route, brass selection is smaller, you really have to watch your COAL and Mag geometry constraints, and you get into the whole "do I go short action WSM or long action WSM thingee"?

It's a fun exercise, but the 300 WSM requires more thought and imput, and skill from the operator, than the LA only go buy a box of ammo and go shoot, 300 Win Mag.

None of this is to say you cannot build or buy a fine LR 300 WSM. It's just that the LR WSM's in general require a bit more skill and knowledge of the reloader and operator than the average "20 or 40 rounds a year" shooter displays.

Bob

 

[teal325]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

Not only that - but were one to tire of the rifle and want to turn it into something else - with a WSM that's what your relegated to. Another WSM.

The 300 WM might be a very fine 264 WM or 358 Norma or etc...

 

[Bloody_Tailgate]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
None of this is to say you cannot build or buy a fine LR 300 WSM. It's just that the LR WSM's in general require a bit more skill and knowledge of the reloader and operator than the average "20 or 40 rounds a year" shooter displays. </div></div>

I agree with this statement but also have to add that the three 300WSM chambered rifles I have reloaded for have all been very picky and very different. Primer and powder selection made more of a difference in these three rifles than any other rifle I have loaded for...be ready to have several half empty boxes of primers, bullets, and kegs of powder when it's all through.

 

[Tomcat088]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not only that - but were one to tire of the rifle and want to turn it into something else - with a WSM that's what your relegated to. Another WSM.

The 300 WM might be a very fine 264 WM or 358 Norma or etc...</div></div>

This is far too broad of a generalization. There are WSM's on long actions, and since it has the magnum bolt face, and the same action as the .300 WM, I can change it into any option that you would have with the .300 winmag. Lots of other caliber conversions need other bolt faces also, so this would open back up lots of other possibilities for even a .300 WSM on a short action. I just think this is way too broad of a generalization.

 

[Tomcat088]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bloody_Tailgate</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree with this statement but also have to add that the three 300WSM chambered rifles I have reloaded for have all been very picky and very different. Primer and powder selection made more of a difference in these three rifles than any other rifle I have loaded for...be ready to have several half empty boxes of primers, bullets, and kegs of powder when it's all through. </div></div>

I shoot .300 winmag, 7mm Remington Magnum, and .300 WSM. I've had the opposite experience from you. I've found that it's easier to find a load for my .300 WSM than the other two. My .300 WSM will shoot lots of things pretty well, and it wasn't difficult to find a load that was great. If I'm willing to do the brass prep work, I've found several loads that will put 5 in less than .200" on a regular basis. Sadly, this is more accuracy than I "need", and usually I'm a bit lazy, lol. Most of the time I'd rather shoot more than spend a ton of time reloading. My buddy's .300 WSM, and another friend's 7 WSM aren't very picky either. I'm not discounting your experience, I just want to mention that my experience with the WSM's has been the opposite of yours.

 

[teal325]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomcat088</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not only that - but were one to tire of the rifle and want to turn it into something else - with a WSM that's what your relegated to. Another WSM.

The 300 WM might be a very fine 264 WM or 358 Norma or etc...</div></div>

This is far too broad of a generalization. There are WSM's on long actions, and since it has the magnum bolt face, and the same action as the .300 WM, I can change it into any option that you would have with the .300 winmag. Lots of other caliber conversions need other bolt faces also, so this would open back up lots of other possibilities for even a .300 WSM on a short action. I just think this is way too broad of a generalization.</div></div>

If one is building a rifle from the ground up on a long action - he or she will spend a lot of time and money getting it to feed a WSM case (and once it does - it won't likely feed anything else again without another bucket of money) or money on a DBM that feeds a WSM for that action. Not necessarily what everyone will want to do.

If it's based on a WSM action - unless you want to remove your bolt to load every round - it's gonna be real hard to fit anything but a WSM into that loading port.

Do what you want but the 300 WM on a standard action with mag boltface will offer easier changing to a new caliber/cartridge for less loot than a 300 WSM on a standard action and more options for cartridges on the WSM action.

YMMV....

 

[Tomcat088]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: teal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If one is building a rifle from the ground up on a long action - he or she will spend a lot of time and money getting it to feed a WSM case (and once it does - it won't likely feed anything else again without another bucket of money) or money on a DBM that feeds a WSM for that action. Not necessarily what everyone will want to do.

If it's based on a WSM action - unless you want to remove your bolt to load every round - it's gonna be real hard to fit anything but a WSM into that loading port.

Do what you want but the 300 WM on a standard action with mag boltface will offer easier changing to a new caliber/cartridge for less loot than a 300 WSM on a standard action and more options for cartridges on the WSM action.

YMMV.... </div></div>

Would you like for me to send you photos of how it can be done quickly and cheaply? I wasn't there when my gunsmith friend did it, but I know exactly how he did it. Couldn't have taken more than 30 or 40 minutes. It can be changed back over to where it could feed full long action rounds in less time than it took to get it to feed the WSM's. If we wanted to talk about DBM's and all that, it obviously gets more complicated. I can prove it if you like, but you're still making too broad of a generalization.

 

[teal325]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

Yeah - I'd like to see that.

Aint' busting your balls - just looking at the 2 and thinking about it - I can't see how you're gonna get that fat phugger to feed decently without rail work. Shucking multiple rounds...

 

[border_reiver]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

IMHO, when comparing the 300Winnie to 300whiz, I say if you want to keep up with the winnie go to 7mmwsm, shoot a lighter 162-180gr bullet with higher bc..it will get you 12. Same powder column as the 300wsm..

 

[fish30114]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

Lots of good comment here, I have several short mags, and my 300's have in fact been load picky. Having said that, my others (270 & 7) have not. Comparing all to my 300 WM's.

None of my WSM's shoot discernably faster than a WM apples to apples as best as you can do that with these cartridges, which I guess are more like apples and cucumbers--my meaning is that if you keep pressure equal, bulet weights equal, powder charges may vary slightly, but not faster per se.

Many advocate that the shorter action is stiffer and therfore more prone to accuracy, and I think that can probably be proven empirically. Going to a long action and using a WSM case seems counterproductive to me, if you go long action mag, and don't want a belt, look at Dakota's cartridges, the RUM's, the Lapua and probably a ton of other stuff I don't know of offhand.

I think the home for the WSM is light to mid weight for caliber pills, and lighter flatter shooting type rigs. Now there are a ton of guys shooting the 7 WSM in long range and lighting it up.......but WSM vs WM, to me is easy, how heavy a bullet you want to shoot? If it's over 180 as others have said, go the WM and don't look back.

 

[JByrd]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

Please do not tell the us military that the 300 wm is not accurate and will not feed because it has a belt or they will realize they made a huge mistake. It can be your secret. I think I may sell the surgeon now that I know this. Im glad we all know now

 

[JByrd]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

Hogwash. 300 wm bank door reliable sledgehammer. Don't take the shortbus

 

[longshooter]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

Everyone knows the .300WM is the best. Light to heavy, mild to wild, manageable, the most versatile cartridge on this continent, if not the world.

I love the belt. It has many positive attributes that a smooth case does not.

EVERYONE knows, that the .300WM is the best!

 

[Bunnyack]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

OK, finished, 300 win mag is my choice, PERIOD. Just had been hearing/ reading stuff that concerned me once again...
thanks guys.

 

[Bloody_Tailgate]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

Are you sure??? JK, now buy one and get out and shoot the damn thing!

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone knows the .300WM is the best. Light to heavy, mild to wild, manageable, the most versatile cartridge on this continent, if not the world.
I love the belt. It has many positive attributes that a smooth case does not.
EVERYONE knows, that the .300WM is the best!</div></div>
Not trying to pick on you.
I know the 300WM is great in it's niche but "The most versatile cartridge on this continent."???
I think you need to think about that ....just a little.
There are so many calibers that cover a very wide and diverse shooting/ hunting spectrum.
The 300WM is outstanding in it's own right but it's not the holy grail of cartridges. It's to hot for many applications, to cold or weak for others.
I would not prefer it on a varmit hunt on coyote's or groundhogs and prairie dogs.
I would not prefer it on a cape buffalo hunt unless I had a death wish.
And thats to name just a few.
I'm sure the benchshooter competition groups could chime in as well with their PPC's and BR calibers.
It has it's niche and I do agree it's a good one and I'm glad your a fan, so am I.
But I am also a fan of the best caliber for the job at hand.
I have a 22LR for close up head shots on rabbits at 100 yards and less. 17HMR for within 200. 223 and 22-250 for up to 400, 308/30-06/300WSM for deer sized game and longer range shots.
And they all are great in their own respect.
In my opinion, one of the most versatile cartridges is the 30-06.
You can get tons of it at every known store that sells bullets. You can get 55 grain sabot loads for varmits all the way to like 220-230 grain heavy bullets for fairly large game .It can be loaded hot and it nips at the heals of the 300 WM in performance.
It performs very well in many applications.
It has taken probably more deer than any other caliber in the US, because it has been around for over 100 years and still going strong especially with the hunters.
It has spawned some fantastic smaller and larger grained calibers.

Just giving you food for thought, not trying to ruffle your feathers though.
......SmokeRolls

 

[longshooter]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
one of the most versatile cartridges is the 30-06.
......SmokeRolls</div></div>

Thank you for your rebuttal. However, I said "the most", not "one of the most". The .300WM can do everything the .30-06 can do, and more, if not better.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

Including eating more barrels...


I like (have)a WinMag, I load a 210 Berger - it is the most accurate rifle I own. That said, I think it is a waste of the barrel to shoot it at less than 800 yards. I have made many hits out to 1,550 with it.


Good luck

 

[longshooter]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

You can run it as mild or wild as you want. But, you don't HAVE to run it wild. But you CAN!

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
one of the most versatile cartridges is the 30-06.
......SmokeRolls</div></div>

Thank you for your rebuttal. However, I said "the most", not "one of the most". The .300WM can do everything the .30-06 can do, and more, if not better.</div></div>
I'm smiling

It's all good.
That's what makes America great.
......SmokeRolls

 

[Bunnyack]

Re: .300 win mag vs. .300 WSM once again...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheSmokeRolls</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone knows the .300WM is the best. Light to heavy, mild to wild, manageable, the most versatile cartridge on this continent, if not the world.
I love the belt. It has many positive attributes that a smooth case does not.
EVERYONE knows, that the .300WM is the best!</div></div>
Not trying to pick on you.
I know the 300WM is great in it's niche but "The most versatile cartridge on this continent."???
I think you need to think about that ....just a little.
There are so many calibers that cover a very wide and diverse shooting/ hunting spectrum.
The 300WM is outstanding in it's own right but it's not the holy grail of cartridges. It's to hot for many applications, to cold or weak for others.
I would not prefer it on a varmit hunt on coyote's or groundhogs and prairie dogs.
I would not prefer it on a cape buffalo hunt unless I had a death wish.
And thats to name just a few.
I'm sure the benchshooter competition groups could chime in as well with their PPC's and BR calibers.
It has it's niche and I do agree it's a good one and I'm glad your a fan, so am I.
But I am also a fan of the best caliber for the job at hand.
I have a 22LR for close up head shots on rabbits at 100 yards and less. 17HMR for within 200. 223 and 22-250 for up to 400, 308/30-06/300WSM for deer sized game and longer range shots.
And they all are great in their own respect.
In my opinion, one of the most versatile cartridges is the 30-06.
You can get tons of it at every known store that sells bullets. You can get 55 grain sabot loads for varmits all the way to like 220-230 grain heavy bullets for fairly large game .It can be loaded hot and it nips at the heals of the 300 WM in performance.
It performs very well in many applications.
It has taken probably more deer than any other caliber in the US, because it has been around for over 100 years and still going strong especially with the hunters.
It has spawned some fantastic smaller and larger grained calibers.

Just giving you food for thought, not trying to ruffle your feathers though.
......SmokeRolls
</div></div>

Your right about that. The only thing I don´t quite agree with is that it can be hotloaded almost to .300 WM performance. yes, you can absolutely hotload your .30-06 but you will never get really close to .300WM performance.