300 WinMag vs 300 PRC vs 300 Norma

[zekers7]

Just started looking into a mangnum option for ELR. I know 300 PRC takes the cake for efficiency in just about every regard over the other two but given current times its just not available. Im fine reloading it but cant even pickup the powder/brass/primers.

At this point its easier to get 300 Norma in berger 215gr hybrid for $2.50/rd or just plentiful types of 300 WM.

Any recommendations? Has 300 PRC been stocked out for a while now or is it just short at the moment?

 

[vinniedelpino]

The only ammo on the shelf at walmart earlier today was two different flavors of 300 win mag.

....Just saying.

 

[Steel head]

300 Norma factory ammo is scarce, expensive and famously underpowered.
Right now all ammo and components are scarce.
Good luck!

 

[BytorJr]

Just started looking into a mangnum option for ELR. I know 300 PRC takes the cake for efficiency in just about every regard over the other two but given current times its just not available. Im fine reloading it but cant even pickup the powder/brass/primers.

At this point its easier to get 300 Norma in berger 215gr hybrid for $2.50/rd or just plentiful types of 300 WM.

Any recommendations? Has 300 PRC been stocked out for a while now or is it just short at the moment?

Tons of 300 Win Mag at Sportsman's Warehouse in Nashville area. By tons, I mean maybe 10 boxes .

 

[natdscott]

The only ammo on the shelf at walmart earlier today was two different flavors of 300 win mag.

....Just saying.

And being a military caliber might be handy some day.

 

[Tchitcherine]

How is this even a question, get all three.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

These times will pass. It will just take some patience. Get what you want and establish backorders at several places for components.

 

[dgheriani]

I went through the same thought process as you when I was planning out my ELR build. Originally planned on going with the .300PRC but was put off by being stuck with Hornady brass (before Lapua announced they'd make brass). Since I was building from the ground up, there really wasn't much additional cost to going the .300 Norma Mag route and I've been very happy with the results. Berger 220 LRHTs at 3150 out of a 29.5" pipe is a wonderful thing

 

[vh20]

At this point its easier to get 300 Norma in berger 215gr hybrid for $2.50/rd or just plentiful types of 300 WM.

Where are you finding Berger 215gr 300NM ammo for $50.00/box?

 

[zekers7]

Where are you finding Berger 215gr 300NM ammo for $50.00/box?

Federal GM300NMBH1 Gold Medal Berger Hybrid Hunter 300 Norma Mag 215 gr Berger Hybrid Hunter 20 Bx/ 10 Cs

Federal GM300NMBH1 Gold Medal Berger Hybrid Hunter 300 Norma Mag 215 gr Berger Hybrid Hunter 20 Bx/ 10 Cs Manufacturer:FederalCaliber:300 Norma Mag Bullet Type:Berger Hybrid Hunter Bullet Weight:215 gr Energy:4296 ft lbs Velocity:3000 fps Rounds per Box:20Boxes Per Case:10CasingBrass

www.foundryoutdoors.com

ammoseek.com

 

[Matt_3479]

By far 300. Win mag is safest for on the shelf ammo. There’s 100’s of different ones, folllwed by prc then Norma. As far as performance it goes norma followed by prc/winny.

I’ve always shot the win mag until this year I got the Norma and it’s simply amazing! Zero regrets

 

[vh20]

Federal GM300NMBH1 Gold Medal Berger Hybrid Hunter 300 Norma Mag 215 gr Berger Hybrid Hunter 20 Bx/ 10 Cs

Federal GM300NMBH1 Gold Medal Berger Hybrid Hunter 300 Norma Mag 215 gr Berger Hybrid Hunter 20 Bx/ 10 Cs Manufacturer:FederalCaliber:300 Norma Mag Bullet Type:Berger Hybrid Hunter Bullet Weight:215 gr Energy:4296 ft lbs Velocity:3000 fps Rounds per Box:20Boxes Per Case:10CasingBrass

www.foundryoutdoors.com

ammoseek.com

Ah, FEDERAL ammo with Berger bullets, not Berger ammo, which comes in Lapua brass that costs more than 2.50 for the case alone. The OP just said "300 Norma in Berger 215" without mentioning Federal, so it read like you meant Berger ammo.

 

[FatBoy]

Curious if you’re starting ground up or do you have a rifle you’re planning on rebuilding?

 

[extendoclip]

The fed 215 Bergers come with norma brass. Great deal

 

[zekers7]

Barrett mrad. Just picked up the 300nm 26” barrel. So the federal ammo is confirmed lapua brass?

 

[MACHTECH]

I was shooting my 300 Norma at 2640 yards with over 10 less mils of elevation than a 300 prc. That should tell you a little bit about the difference.

 

[Nik H]

Barrett mrad. Just picked up the 300nm 26” barrel. So the federal ammo is confirmed lapua brass?

No

Berger factory 338 LM uses Lapua Brass

 

[jbonnie]

Zeke once you get through this build I would love to learn from your experience. Glad the collection is expanding again!

 

[Birddog6424]

The 300 Norma mag is the king of the mainstream 30 calibers.

If you want to push 200gr plus heavy bullets fast and far, its the best choice.

 

[dgheriani]

The 300 Norma mag is the king of the mainstream 30 calibers.

If you want to push 200gr plus heavy bullets fast and far, its the best choice.

I'd agree. There really is no replacement for displacement. I'm quite enjoying 220gr LRHTs at 3188 fps, haha.

 

[Chandalar]

I'm a big fan of 300 Norma as well, that said the 300 RUM is sadly overlooked far to often that is easily its equal.

 

[Lost_Phil]

I'm a big fan of 300 Norma as well, that said the 300 RUM is sadly overlooked far to often that is easily its equal.

You are quite ight about the 300 RUM and it has the largest case capacity out of all new calibers. Another one that seems to be over looked is the Nosler 30, 26, 27, 28 calibers.

I have been looking at building something that will get me out to 2K and for the ease of being able to build it my self, I am going to do a 300WM. I did also look at the 300RUM and might do one as well down the road to reach out further.

One of the things I did was to look at average gr/H2O case capacity. Not sure on some of these..

300 RUM 110.2 gr
300 Norma 104.2 gr
30 Nosler 98.5 gr
300 PRC 97 gr
300 Win Mag 93.8 gr

 

[JB.IC]

Don’t forget about the 30 Sherman Mag. My buddy has one and it shoots about 100fps than my 300PRC.
I think the 30SM case capacity is just a pinch below 300NM

 

[Chandalar]

You are quite ight about the 300 RUM and it has the largest case capacity out of all new calibers. Another one that seems to be over looked is the Nosler 30, 26, 27, 28 calibers.

I have been looking at building something that will get me out to 2K and for the ease of being able to build it my self, I am going to do a 300WM. I did also look at the 300RUM and might do one as well down the road to reach out further.

One of the things I did was to look at average gr/H2O case capacity. Not sure on some of these..

300 RUM 110.2 gr
300 Norma 104.2 gr
30 Nosler 98.5 gr
300 PRC 97 gr
300 Win Mag 93.8 gr

I’m currently working on a 7 twist barrel for a 300 Norma to shoot the PVA Seneca 241 grain billets that have a G7 BC of .555. I should be able to get around 3000 fps from a 30-31” barrel, shows some promising numbers run through a Kestrel.

 

[Lost_Phil]

I’m currently working on a 7 twist barrel for a 300 Norma to shoot the PVA Seneca 241 grain billets that have a G7 BC of .555. I should be able to get around 3000 fps from a 30-31” barrel, shows some promising numbers run through a Kestrel.

I did not know PVA made solid pills, so I am curious on how you make out with them. Did you take a look at the Berger 30 Caliber 245 Grain Extreme Outer Limits (EOL) Elite Hunter? I think the average BC is around that as well.

 

[phlegethon]

I did not know PVA made solid pills, so I am curious on how you make out with them. Did you take a look at the Berger 30 Caliber 245 Grain Extreme Outer Limits (EOL) Elite Hunter? I think the average BC is around that as well.

No, the G7 BC of the Berger 245 is .413. The claim for the PVA bullet is far beyond anything else out there. It’s higher than most claimed BCs for .375 and .416 bullets. I wouldn’t believe it without independent verification.

 

[Lost_Phil]

No, the G7 BC of the Berger 245 is .413. The claim for the PVA bullet is far beyond anything else out there. It’s higher than most claimed BCs for .375 and .416 bullets. I wouldn’t believe it without independent verification.

I was going by the average G7 BC that both have listed...

PVA G7 BC average = 0.555*

Berger G7 Form Factor 0.893 (Form factor is an average estimation like PVA's)

I do have to agree that PVA number is inflated and is more along the lines of the Berger, which is G7 BC 0.413. Berger has some good information on No BS BC. It is one of the reasons I bought there reloading manual, it has allot of technical information in it.

 

[Birddog6424]

I’m currently working on a 7 twist barrel for a 300 Norma to shoot the PVA Seneca 241 grain billets that have a G7 BC of .555. I should be able to get around 3000 fps from a 30-31” barrel, shows some promising numbers run through a Kestrel.

That G7 seems awfully high..

I'm interested to see if anyone has that as a confirmed number.

 

[Chandalar]

For PVA's web page;


"The "Seneca" series is a turned copper projectile designed with the most demanding competitors in mind. These projectiles are the epitome of performance with their high BC, lower weight and sleek profiles. The bullet designs are all measured via acoustic chronograph and/or Doppler radar for the utmost in confidence of the equipment. The bullets are designed to be used in a broad range of competition calibers and magazines. As compared to other monolithics or hybrid construction projectiles these exhibit better form factors, better repeatability, lower weight and higher BC's. Not only are the trajectories better with these projectiles but the overall performance aids the competitor in "shootability" with reduced recoil for the performance gained.



This bullet family has multiple patents awarded for the design. Due to some of the patented features the designs are not only extremely efficient in flight but also very easy to load with conventional powders and standard chamber dimensions. The bullets are designed with bore rider geometry for use of normal throat geometry.



Each bullet is individually turned on high precision lathes and measured to ensure the utmost in consistency. These projectiles are not bulk washed/tumbled or other bulk-method processed to ensure that the sleek profiles are not damaged after machining is completed.



For example, using the 6.5mm 124gr Seneca and a conventional 130gr jacketed bullet design in comparison the Seneca performance allows a 6.5 Creedmoor shooter compete head to head with 6.5 PRC and other 6.5mm short magnum cases. THis is a huge advantage in the overall cost of ammunition, cost of an additional caliber to reload, cost of a new barrel and bolt or a whole rifle, and increased barrel life of a 6.5 Creed vs. 6.5 PRC



Length: 2.05"

Optimal Freebore: 0.090"-0.165"

G1 BC average = 1.15*

G7 BC average = 0.555*

*The average BC was measured using 7tw 5R rifled barrels and being shot at approximately 2810fps. Different rifling geometry and muzzle velocity will affect the BC in a nominal manner.



TNF stands for Trajectory Normalizing Factor. It is a simplification used to accurately estimate the potential of firearms trajectories across calibers and weight ranges without the complexity of running a ballistic calculator.

TNF = Muzzle Velocity * Ballistic Coefficient

See the Patriot Valley Arms article on TNF.



Seneca G7 BC = 0.555

250gr Jacketed bullet G7 BC = 0.426

For a 2,950fps Seneca load we have a TNF value of 0.555*2850=1582

To equate that TNF value with the 250gr bullet it would need to be traveling at least 3,710 fps!



Test packages of 100ct bullets are available however the best pricing of course comes with larger volumes. Volumes of 500pcs or more will be filled in bulk packages not in 100ct bags.



30c 241gr Seneca requires a 1:7tw barrel, it will likely not be stable from slower twist rates. We cannot accept returns of projectiles due to liability reasons.

Starting load information should be based on conventional 230-240 grain projectile information in published reloading manuals. The bullets have shown good repeatability across a broad seating depth range. We suggest loading the bullets 0.020" off the lands and starting load development in that area."

 

[Chandalar]

From Josh Kunz FB post;

"I made some updates to the venerable 198gr 30cal design and made a variant to take advantage of the faster twist magnums starting to show up. I successfully tested today, as a repeater, from my 300wsm with a long action mag.
Bullet is 241gr, I am testing from a 7tw and will be looking for some beta testers who have 7.5 or 8 twist magnum 30cal chambers in the 0.125-0.210 freebore range
The calculated BC is based off the doppler data from the 198 and extrapolates to be around 0.55 G7 avg"

 

[Chickentoast]

 

[phlegethon]

The calculated BC is based off the doppler data from the 198 and extrapolates to be around 0.55 G7 avg"

Oh wow, even worse, he isn’t claiming to have directly measured it.

 

[Chandalar]

View attachment 7486312

Awesome Chickentoast!

 

[Chickentoast]

^ I have yet to chamber a fresh 31" 9 twist Bartlein - going with ~4.1" coal, good for the 225-250 grain class. Should be over 3200 with 225's. But seeing the pics of your mag-fed WSM with solids makes me want a 7 twist - those are some long projectiles!

 

[Chandalar]

^ I have yet to chamber a fresh 31" 9 twist Bartlein - going with ~4.1" coal, good for the 225-250 grain class. Should be over 3200 with 225's. But seeing the pics of your mag-fed WSM with solids makes me want a 7 twist - those are some long projectiles!

Photos were from Josh Kunz, that he posted on FB.

 

[CBlack]

But do they act fluky after a certain distance?

Didn't he design the Flatlines? Haven't heard many positives on those

 

[CBlack]

But as to the original question...

300NM or 30-28 Nosler

 

[CrabsandFootball]

300NM is one of the only calibers at local Sportsmans

They have 20 round boxes of FGMM for $54. I may go buy it all if thats a good price.

 

[richthe1]

Barrett mrad. Just picked up the 300nm 26” barrel. So the federal ammo is confirmed lapua brass?

Question for you experts out there. Warning: beginner here.
I’ve wanted an MRAD in 300NM, but I simply don’t know enough when it comes to twist rate, SG, etc. The MRAD appears to offer a 1/8 twist, and I’m a little worried about that.

Using the Berger stability calculator: At 59 degrees at sea level I got an SG of 2.31 with the 215gr assuming 3017fps for a 26” barrel. Is that too high of an SG?

It looks like the RPMS for Berger factory 215gr ammo in a 1-8 twist 26” barrel would be approximately 3017x720/8=271,530 rpm. Is that getting too close to the 300,000 rpm rule of thumb for possible bullet failure?

I want an MRAD, but am worried about a 1/8 barrel that it comes with because of the above concerns...

 

[GMZ]

300NM is one of the only calibers at local Sportsmans

They have 20 round boxes of FGMM for $54. I may go buy it all if thats a good price.

Hdy raised the price on 300 prc ammo to damn near that, might as well go big at this point.

 

[Tchitcherine]

300NM is one of the only calibers at local Sportsmans

They have 20 round boxes of FGMM for $54. I may go buy it all if thats a good price.

Well, $54/20=$2.70 ea. Compare vs. Lapua 300NM brass at $194/100=$1.94 ea. Pick a bullet, say Berger 220gr LRHT, $58/100=$0.58 ea. Add in availability problems with primers and powders, and $54 doesn't seem so bad. Buy 'em all.

 

[shoot4fun]

How is this even a question, get all three.

Okay.
I have had a Surgeon Scalpel in 300WM and in 2020 I added a BAT action build in 300NM 35˚ Improved. It came with 10 boxes of Berger factory ammo loaded with 215 Hybrids.
I have 300PRC brass (ADG), dies, 800 215 Hybrids (also came with the NMI) and a Krieger 9 twist 31" blank so a 300PRC is on the near horizon. Just deciding between two action choices at this time.
On a side note, I have found the Berger 300NM factory ammo to be no where near the published velocity. I am missing about 170 FPS. Maybe the barrel will speed up because only 20 rounds down it thus far (not many places to air it out near me).

 

[Eric B.]

Everything considered I'd choose the new 300 PRC. Reloading bullet options are greater than for the other two cartridges.
I'm thinking of selling my .300 Win. mag. trued Remington-actioned HS Precision target rifle. It's in an M24 style HS Precision stock and the action and fluted barrel are stainless. OR I may have it re-chambered to .300 PRC. Still thinkin'...

 

[JBarton]

Everything considered I'd choose the new 300 PRC. Reloading bullet options are greater than for the other two cartridges.
I'm thinking of selling my .300 Win. mag. trued Remington-actioned HS Precision target rifle. It's in an M24 style HS Precision stock and the action and fluted barrel are stainless. OR I may have it re-chambered to .300 PRC. Still thinkin'...

Im building a 300PRC on an archimedes action and should have my proof ss 9 twist blank by the end of the month. Can't wait to be honest. Im shooting a 300WM with a 26" 9 twist bartlein and absolutely love it. Pushing 220gr ELDX and scenars close to 2900fps. Im probably going to get a new barrel for it soon and keep shooting it also. At least thats what I'm saying now..we will have to see how the PRC does. From all of my research I really don't think you can go wrong with a 300PRC.

 

[GUNNER10]

I think that if you are getting into magnums now, 300WIN may be the best option if you want to shoot now. If one is waiting for things to somewhat stabilize, one could make the argument that the PRC or norma may may more sense.

I have an endless supply of 300WM brass and a fresh krieger so while the PRC makes more sense than the WM at this point, I am kind of invested into WM for the time being. If I was not all ready set up, I really like the PRC

 

[GUNNER10]

Im building a 300PRC on an archimedes action and should have my proof ss 9 twist blank by the end of the month. Can't wait to be honest. Im shooting a 300WM with a 26" 9 twist bartlein and absolutely love it. Pushing 220gr ELDX and scenars close to 2900fps. Im probably going to get a new barrel for it soon and keep shooting it also. At least thats what I'm saying now..we will have to see how the PRC does. From all of my research I really don't think you can go wrong with a 300PRC.

I am running 208's at 2915 out of my 26 inch Krieger and its a hammer. Love that rifle

 

[jmw]

Everything considered I'd choose the new 300 PRC. Reloading bullet options are greater than for the other two cartridges.
I'm thinking of selling my .300 Win. mag. trued Remington-actioned HS Precision target rifle. It's in an M24 style HS Precision stock and the action and fluted barrel are stainless. OR I may have it re-chambered to .300 PRC. Still thinkin'...

They all shoot 30 caliber bullets

 

[Onewolf42]

How long do those 3100+ fps 300 Norma Mag barrels last? Or is that irrelevant same as how long do tires last on a Hellcat/Demon?

 

[Johnny00K]

How long do those 3100+ fps 300 Norma Mag barrels last? Or is that irrelevant same as how long do tires last on a Hellcat/Demon?

Most people say you get around 1k give or take. It's irrelevant to me, pay to play man. When people talk about barrel life I always suggest that they get a 30-30 Winchester, or a pellet gun, or just throw rocks.

 

[GUNNER10]

Most people say you get around 1k give or take. It's irrelevant to me, pay to play man. When people talk about barrel life I always suggest that they get a 30-30 Winchester, or a pellet gun, or just throw rocks.

yeah pretty much,

I think the issue with the think that barrels only last x amount of rounds is that often times the criteria by which the barrel is being judged is not mentioned,

For example, say if sombody is shooting F class, or PRS, and they notice that after 1200 rounds, they start throwing shots and as a result placing lower, Barrel life is going to be something that is more critically looked at. Especially if they are putting that many rounds down range a year.

For others who may not shoot as much, or possibly at larger targets, barrel life is not as much of a concern. I don't really consider magnums a volume shooter, so if I do a decent amount of shooting over the next year or so, I don't think its really any issue to pull the barrel every couple years or so considering the performance one can get out of it.

For me, This is why for my next bolt gun, I really think I am going to pick up an MRAD or AI, as when it comes time for a swap, its 2 minutes and done.