Hey Y'all... I have a couple of Great .308's and now I'm in the process of buying a .30'06 in hopes of a little more range. My .308's are are deadly accurate... far more so than I... and I'm wondering if I can expect the same accuracy from a .30'06? Obviously, the same rules apply as far as quality of action, barrel and ammo but I'm wondering about the actual round vs .308. Is there a particular reason I don't read much here on the Hide about .30'06? I think I read somewhere it had to do with the acceptable amount of powder vs the amount of air inside a .30'06 but I may have misunderstood. I know the "Generally Accepted" round for Snipers is the .308 but I also read about many other more obscure calibers here too. Am I just not "searching" correctly? The rifle I'm buying is not, by any means, a box-stock rifle. It's a Remington Long Action Receiver with a Lilja Heavy-contour fluted Barrel with a muzzle-break that's got a 1 in 10" twist. It's in a fully adjustable HS Precision Stock. The rifle was built by Bansners so I assume it was built well. I'm probably fishin' for acceptance as much as anything but let me hear your thoughts... You ARE the EXPERTS! Thanks in advance.
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.30'06 vs .308
- Thread starter oneshot onekill
- Start date
Re: .30'06 vs .308
30-06 is a more than capable rifle. Although many would argue that it's a waste being that performance is close to a 308, experience shows that with the heavy bullets, i.e. the 190 and 210, the 3006 can be a great rifle.
30-06 is a more than capable rifle. Although many would argue that it's a waste being that performance is close to a 308, experience shows that with the heavy bullets, i.e. the 190 and 210, the 3006 can be a great rifle.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
I'm no Ex-spurt but I do drive a 30-06 to some good effect.
The limitations you will find with the 06 is historical more than factual. There have been rifles produced since.....1906 chambered in 30-06 some are significantly weaker than todays as that was one of the very first high pressure rounds created. So what you are faced with is ammunition mfg's make ammo that can be fired in all rifles including the weak ones. Read that it's WEAK.
I drive 210gr Bergers and 208 Amax's at 2800 fps and can drive them a goodly ways further down range than that via RE-22. I have not played with 240's or 190's yet as I am quite happy with the 210ish performance. Couple hundred less fps than the 300WM and a couple hundred more than a 308 with long barrel life. Much to like about that.
Cheers,
Doc
I'm no Ex-spurt but I do drive a 30-06 to some good effect.
The limitations you will find with the 06 is historical more than factual. There have been rifles produced since.....1906 chambered in 30-06 some are significantly weaker than todays as that was one of the very first high pressure rounds created. So what you are faced with is ammunition mfg's make ammo that can be fired in all rifles including the weak ones. Read that it's WEAK.
I drive 210gr Bergers and 208 Amax's at 2800 fps and can drive them a goodly ways further down range than that via RE-22. I have not played with 240's or 190's yet as I am quite happy with the 210ish performance. Couple hundred less fps than the 300WM and a couple hundred more than a 308 with long barrel life. Much to like about that.
Cheers,
Doc
Re: .30'06 vs .308
I have several .308's and just shipped an action off today to have a 30-06 built. I am having it throated for the 190 grainers. If I am correct, the '06 has a bit longer neck and allows the the use of heavier bullets. My hope is that even though this rifle is twisted for the heavier bullet, it will still handle the 168's.
The '06 drips nostalgia and I just wanted one. If you hunt, there are few critters in the US this round is underpowered for.
David
I have several .308's and just shipped an action off today to have a 30-06 built. I am having it throated for the 190 grainers. If I am correct, the '06 has a bit longer neck and allows the the use of heavier bullets. My hope is that even though this rifle is twisted for the heavier bullet, it will still handle the 168's.
The '06 drips nostalgia and I just wanted one. If you hunt, there are few critters in the US this round is underpowered for.
David
Re: .30'06 vs .308
I think the main reason the 30-06 doesn't get as much print on the hide is because it is not as "tactical" as the 308. By tactical, I am meaning strictly that in a situation where you may need to rely on your tactical rifle for defense of life or land, you would be more likely to be able to scavange 308 rounds on the field than you would .30-06.
To answer your other question, there are some deadly accurate .30-06s out there, and it will out perform the 308. I think you will like it, I know there is some FGMM ammo out there for the -06, but if you reload it won't be an issue anyway.
Dave
I think the main reason the 30-06 doesn't get as much print on the hide is because it is not as "tactical" as the 308. By tactical, I am meaning strictly that in a situation where you may need to rely on your tactical rifle for defense of life or land, you would be more likely to be able to scavange 308 rounds on the field than you would .30-06.
To answer your other question, there are some deadly accurate .30-06s out there, and it will out perform the 308. I think you will like it, I know there is some FGMM ammo out there for the -06, but if you reload it won't be an issue anyway.
Dave
Re: .30'06 vs .308
About 9 years ago I was shooting a bunch of 308 at 1000 yards (imagine that) 175-SMK/Berger 185's. Running the 175's at 2800 and the 185's at 2730....... Well I got to thinking a 30-06 should run that 175 at 3000 no problem. Barreled up a rifle and 2950 the primers were falling out............kicked like a mule too. Thought well its just this barrel, did one 32 inches long in 30-06 Ackly Improved not any better. IMHO a 300 mag is more comfortable to shoot recoil is more of a push and a REAL difference in performance.
About 9 years ago I was shooting a bunch of 308 at 1000 yards (imagine that) 175-SMK/Berger 185's. Running the 175's at 2800 and the 185's at 2730....... Well I got to thinking a 30-06 should run that 175 at 3000 no problem. Barreled up a rifle and 2950 the primers were falling out............kicked like a mule too. Thought well its just this barrel, did one 32 inches long in 30-06 Ackly Improved not any better. IMHO a 300 mag is more comfortable to shoot recoil is more of a push and a REAL difference in performance.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
I love my 30-06, and yes it'll run all over the .308
But, you are looking for a "little more range" with the 06 you'll get more, but maybe you should consider haveing something built. Sometimes one gets too many rifles that are to close (ballisticly) to one another. It's at least something to consider before spending the money on what is available now.
I'm more of a fan of a fellow haveing 3, a .223, a mid size .308 or 260 or something of that nature and a large rifle, 7mm or 30 cal mag or ??? .284 winny is a good choice.
By all means though the 30-06 with some heavy bullets and slower powder is my choice in the safe here
I love my 30-06, and yes it'll run all over the .308
But, you are looking for a "little more range" with the 06 you'll get more, but maybe you should consider haveing something built. Sometimes one gets too many rifles that are to close (ballisticly) to one another. It's at least something to consider before spending the money on what is available now.
I'm more of a fan of a fellow haveing 3, a .223, a mid size .308 or 260 or something of that nature and a large rifle, 7mm or 30 cal mag or ??? .284 winny is a good choice.
By all means though the 30-06 with some heavy bullets and slower powder is my choice in the safe here
Re: .30'06 vs .308
The 30/06 is without doubt the most storied cartridge out there,weather it out performs the .308 is kinda a distant second in my warped little world, it just oozes all things great about America. I never think of the cartridge without remembering all the history,from Bella wood( where the USMC gave the germans a lesson in long range marksmenship) to Chet Hamilton who called it "Big Medicine" This old girl has been getting it done for over a century...
Just a thought, Buck Garrett
The 30/06 is without doubt the most storied cartridge out there,weather it out performs the .308 is kinda a distant second in my warped little world, it just oozes all things great about America. I never think of the cartridge without remembering all the history,from Bella wood( where the USMC gave the germans a lesson in long range marksmenship) to Chet Hamilton who called it "Big Medicine" This old girl has been getting it done for over a century...
Just a thought, Buck Garrett
Re: .30'06 vs .308
I've been shooting and reloading both the 308 and 30-06 for several years now.
In equal length barrels, the 30-06 is good for about a 200 fps gain over the 308 with like bullets.
I started out with my 308 and 30-06 both with 26" barrels, now the 308 is 20.5", and the 30-06 is 22.4".
Some comparative velocities I get with current barrel lengths
110 VMax:
308: 3200
30-06: 3570
130 TTSX:
308: 3100
30-06: 3340
155 Scenar:
308: 2800
30-06: 3030
208 AMax:
308: 2540
30-06: 2700
As to accuracy, my Douglas-barreled 1/10 twist 30-06 is consistently .5 moa accurate, with everything I've tried from 110 to 240 gr bullets. Get a good barrel and have it installed by a good 'smith, you will have an accurate rifle.
I've been shooting and reloading both the 308 and 30-06 for several years now.
In equal length barrels, the 30-06 is good for about a 200 fps gain over the 308 with like bullets.
I started out with my 308 and 30-06 both with 26" barrels, now the 308 is 20.5", and the 30-06 is 22.4".
Some comparative velocities I get with current barrel lengths
110 VMax:
308: 3200
30-06: 3570
130 TTSX:
308: 3100
30-06: 3340
155 Scenar:
308: 2800
30-06: 3030
208 AMax:
308: 2540
30-06: 2700
As to accuracy, my Douglas-barreled 1/10 twist 30-06 is consistently .5 moa accurate, with everything I've tried from 110 to 240 gr bullets. Get a good barrel and have it installed by a good 'smith, you will have an accurate rifle.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
The 30-06 can be as accurate as the 308, but they are ballistically similar as well.
If you are starting from scratch, the 300WM or 300WSM is a more significant step up and adds more capability in a package of about the same size...as to that, for a greater step up in ballistic performance with less recoil, consider a 7 WSM.
TC
The 30-06 can be as accurate as the 308, but they are ballistically similar as well.
If you are starting from scratch, the 300WM or 300WSM is a more significant step up and adds more capability in a package of about the same size...as to that, for a greater step up in ballistic performance with less recoil, consider a 7 WSM.
TC
Re: .30'06 vs .308
26" Rock 5R 308
155 moly scenar, gobs of IMR
3050fps over Oheler 35P
Didnt shoot real good but easy bolt lift n no ejector wipe.
final load will be 47.8 vargay @2.920 OAL, thats mag feed per some mods.
If yer want a laser
7WSM
now if you want a laser that kicks like a 22
6.5x47
308/30-06 just cant shoot that flat, well unless ya put some thought to it. 308 can pert near equal 260 performance many here have been down that road.
26" Rock 5R 308
155 moly scenar, gobs of IMR
3050fps over Oheler 35P
Didnt shoot real good but easy bolt lift n no ejector wipe.
final load will be 47.8 vargay @2.920 OAL, thats mag feed per some mods.
If yer want a laser
7WSM
now if you want a laser that kicks like a 22
6.5x47
308/30-06 just cant shoot that flat, well unless ya put some thought to it. 308 can pert near equal 260 performance many here have been down that road.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a particular reason I don't read much here on the Hide about .30'06? I think I read somewhere it had to do with the acceptable amount of powder vs the amount of air inside a .30'06 but I may have misunderstood. I know the "Generally Accepted" round for Snipers is the .308 but I also read about many other more obscure calibers here too. Am I just not "searching" correctly?</div></div>
The reason you don't find much about the '06 on the Hide is, all the posts about load development that MontanaMarine and I did 5 and 6 years was lost in changes and updates to this website. Put RL22 behind 190gr or 210gr bullets, and you will have no "air space" inside the case.
Don
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is there a particular reason I don't read much here on the Hide about .30'06? I think I read somewhere it had to do with the acceptable amount of powder vs the amount of air inside a .30'06 but I may have misunderstood. I know the "Generally Accepted" round for Snipers is the .308 but I also read about many other more obscure calibers here too. Am I just not "searching" correctly?</div></div>
The reason you don't find much about the '06 on the Hide is, all the posts about load development that MontanaMarine and I did 5 and 6 years was lost in changes and updates to this website. Put RL22 behind 190gr or 210gr bullets, and you will have no "air space" inside the case.
Don
Re: .30'06 vs .308
Yep, Don and I were doing the 30-06 thing about the time this website came into existence.
190-220 gr bullets and RL22 are where it's at with the 30-06.
Yep, Don and I were doing the 30-06 thing about the time this website came into existence.
190-220 gr bullets and RL22 are where it's at with the 30-06.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 30-06 can be as accurate as the 308, but they are ballistically similar as well.
TC </div></div>
Can you please quantify this.
I'd like to know the 308 loads that can push a 210 gr bullet 2700 fps, or a 155gr bullet at 3000+ fps from a 22" bbl.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 30-06 can be as accurate as the 308, but they are ballistically similar as well.
TC </div></div>
Can you please quantify this.
I'd like to know the 308 loads that can push a 210 gr bullet 2700 fps, or a 155gr bullet at 3000+ fps from a 22" bbl.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, Don and I were doing the 30-06 thing about the time this website came into existence.
190-220 gr bullets and RL22 are where it's at with the 30-06. </div></div> I would be interested in viewing some of your load data on the 210's and some of your smaller stuff if you have any.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, Don and I were doing the 30-06 thing about the time this website came into existence.
190-220 gr bullets and RL22 are where it's at with the 30-06. </div></div> I would be interested in viewing some of your load data on the 210's and some of your smaller stuff if you have any.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
Here's my 30-06 loading notes,
30-06 Reload Data
22.4" bbl
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hornady 110gr V-Max, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL 3.20"
Reloader-15
63 gr - 3570 fps
------------------------------------------------------------------
Barnes 130gr TTSX, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.26"
Reloader-15
59.0 gr - 3195 fps
60.0 gr - 3255 fps
61.0 gr - 3315 fps
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Lapua 155gr Scenar, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.30" (3.35" OAL kisses lands, 15Feb08)
Reloader-15
57 gr - 3030 fps
58 gr - 3110 fps
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hornady 208gr AMax, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.46" (3.47" OAL kisses lands, 15Feb08)
CCI-200 primer
Reloader-22
60 gr - 2660 fps - 57K psi
61 gr - 2710 fps - 62K psi
62 gr - 2765 fps - 66K psi
63 gr - 2800 fps - 70K psi, flattening primer
64 gr - 2850 fps - 74K psi, flattening primer, brass flow in ejector, .002" web expansion
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Berger 210gr VLD, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.34" (3.41" OAL kisses lands, 15Feb08)
Reloader-22
60 gr - 2620 fps
Edited to add:
240 SMKs, Rem brass, 56.5gr RL22, 2610 fps via 26" bbl, haven't tried them in the shorter barrel.
Here's my 30-06 loading notes,
30-06 Reload Data
22.4" bbl
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hornady 110gr V-Max, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL 3.20"
Reloader-15
63 gr - 3570 fps
------------------------------------------------------------------
Barnes 130gr TTSX, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.26"
Reloader-15
59.0 gr - 3195 fps
60.0 gr - 3255 fps
61.0 gr - 3315 fps
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Lapua 155gr Scenar, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.30" (3.35" OAL kisses lands, 15Feb08)
Reloader-15
57 gr - 3030 fps
58 gr - 3110 fps
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hornady 208gr AMax, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.46" (3.47" OAL kisses lands, 15Feb08)
CCI-200 primer
Reloader-22
60 gr - 2660 fps - 57K psi
61 gr - 2710 fps - 62K psi
62 gr - 2765 fps - 66K psi
63 gr - 2800 fps - 70K psi, flattening primer
64 gr - 2850 fps - 74K psi, flattening primer, brass flow in ejector, .002" web expansion
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Berger 210gr VLD, moly'd
Brass: Norma
OAL: 3.34" (3.41" OAL kisses lands, 15Feb08)
Reloader-22
60 gr - 2620 fps
Edited to add:
240 SMKs, Rem brass, 56.5gr RL22, 2610 fps via 26" bbl, haven't tried them in the shorter barrel.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
The "Ol ought six was good enough as a battle cartridge to be chosen as the load for the M1 Garand, one of the greatest battle rifles of all time! I grew up on that cartridge as one of only two used to hunt deer in Western NY... the other being the 30.30.... Used the 30.06 (via a Ruger M77) when hunting from my tree stand, and the 30.30 while ground hunting (via a Winchester 94AE).... I tried my best to accurize that old Ruger, but was never able to get better than 1.5 MOA consistently from it, 1 MOA on really good days, but that Ruger wasn't cut out for the real precision game...probably could have done better with a barrel swap, but traded it off for my first magnum (.300) as there aren't many smiths who enjoy working on the Rugers.... That leaves my M1 Garand as my only 30.06 left in the stable, and she will always have a spot there! Feeding her surplus (non-corrosive!) ammo allows for plenty of range time with her!
30.06 ammo would also be an easy to acquire round during hard times as you can count on there always being some available in every/any sporting goods store! It was a great cartridge to grow up on, and it still has a place in my heart and safe! But, I believe there are ballistically better options available for those situations where the .06 is suitable with better economy & performance.... Still, I will always have at least one 30.06 as well as a 30.30 in the 94AE in my stable! Both are classic chamberings that our great Country grew up on!!
Long live the ought-six!!!
The "Ol ought six was good enough as a battle cartridge to be chosen as the load for the M1 Garand, one of the greatest battle rifles of all time! I grew up on that cartridge as one of only two used to hunt deer in Western NY... the other being the 30.30.... Used the 30.06 (via a Ruger M77) when hunting from my tree stand, and the 30.30 while ground hunting (via a Winchester 94AE).... I tried my best to accurize that old Ruger, but was never able to get better than 1.5 MOA consistently from it, 1 MOA on really good days, but that Ruger wasn't cut out for the real precision game...probably could have done better with a barrel swap, but traded it off for my first magnum (.300) as there aren't many smiths who enjoy working on the Rugers.... That leaves my M1 Garand as my only 30.06 left in the stable, and she will always have a spot there! Feeding her surplus (non-corrosive!) ammo allows for plenty of range time with her!
30.06 ammo would also be an easy to acquire round during hard times as you can count on there always being some available in every/any sporting goods store! It was a great cartridge to grow up on, and it still has a place in my heart and safe! But, I believe there are ballistically better options available for those situations where the .06 is suitable with better economy & performance.... Still, I will always have at least one 30.06 as well as a 30.30 in the 94AE in my stable! Both are classic chamberings that our great Country grew up on!!
Long live the ought-six!!!
Re: .30'06 vs .308
WOW!!! Great info Guys! I really appreciate it! As far as the rifle itself, it's a Remington 700 Long Action with a Lilja 1 in 10" twist Fluted Heavy Barrel and a Muzzle Break. I didn't ask the barrel length. I don't know who made the bottom metal but it has a 10 round Box Magazine. It's sitting in what appears to be an HS Precision PST038 or PST026 and was built by a company called Bansners who are known more for hunting rifles rather than Tactical Rifles. As you can tell I haven't taken delivery of it yet. I'm doing my homework early and Y'all have given me PLENTY of Great info! Thanks again... Long-Live The Hide! <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shooting and reloading both the 308 and 30-06 for several years now.
In equal length barrels, the 30-06 is good for about a 200 fps gain over the 308 with like bullets.
I started out with my 308 and 30-06 both with 26" barrels, now the 308 is 20.5", and the 30-06 is 22.4".
Some comparative velocities I get with current barrel lengths
110 VMax:
308: 3200
30-06: 3570
130 TTSX:
308: 3100
30-06: 3340
155 Scenar:
308: 2800
30-06: 3030
208 AMax:
308: 2540
30-06: 2700
As to accuracy, my Douglas-barreled 1/10 twist 30-06 is consistently .5 moa accurate, with everything I've tried from 110 to 240 gr bullets. Get a good barrel and have it installed by a good 'smith, you will have an accurate rifle.
</div></div>
WOW!!! Great info Guys! I really appreciate it! As far as the rifle itself, it's a Remington 700 Long Action with a Lilja 1 in 10" twist Fluted Heavy Barrel and a Muzzle Break. I didn't ask the barrel length. I don't know who made the bottom metal but it has a 10 round Box Magazine. It's sitting in what appears to be an HS Precision PST038 or PST026 and was built by a company called Bansners who are known more for hunting rifles rather than Tactical Rifles. As you can tell I haven't taken delivery of it yet. I'm doing my homework early and Y'all have given me PLENTY of Great info! Thanks again... Long-Live The Hide! <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shooting and reloading both the 308 and 30-06 for several years now.
In equal length barrels, the 30-06 is good for about a 200 fps gain over the 308 with like bullets.
I started out with my 308 and 30-06 both with 26" barrels, now the 308 is 20.5", and the 30-06 is 22.4".
Some comparative velocities I get with current barrel lengths
110 VMax:
308: 3200
30-06: 3570
130 TTSX:
308: 3100
30-06: 3340
155 Scenar:
308: 2800
30-06: 3030
208 AMax:
308: 2540
30-06: 2700
As to accuracy, my Douglas-barreled 1/10 twist 30-06 is consistently .5 moa accurate, with everything I've tried from 110 to 240 gr bullets. Get a good barrel and have it installed by a good 'smith, you will have an accurate rifle.
</div></div>
Re: .30'06 vs .308
300 WinMag is another 200 fps faster than top 30-06 loads.
The performance is appealing, but it has to be considered with the increased powder consumption, recoil, noise, heat, and lower barrel life that go along with it.
300 WinMag is another 200 fps faster than top 30-06 loads.
The performance is appealing, but it has to be considered with the increased powder consumption, recoil, noise, heat, and lower barrel life that go along with it.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
Happy medium....
30-06 AI
BTW, take a careful look at what Shane says. He knows his '06's and speaks from experience.
Happy medium....
30-06 AI
BTW, take a careful look at what Shane says. He knows his '06's and speaks from experience.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
I'm definitely not opposed to having a 300WM but what attracted me to this particular rifle was that I have a bunch of .30'06 ammo and brass and the price of the rifle for the features it has. The rifle is already built. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Regency</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not just step up to .300mag and have even more capability???</div></div>
I'm definitely not opposed to having a 300WM but what attracted me to this particular rifle was that I have a bunch of .30'06 ammo and brass and the price of the rifle for the features it has. The rifle is already built. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Regency</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not just step up to .300mag and have even more capability???</div></div>
Re: .30'06 vs .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW!!! Great info Guys! I really appreciate it! As far as the rifle itself, it's a Remington 700 Long Action with a Lilja 1 in 10" twist Fluted Heavy Barrel and a Muzzle Break. I didn't ask the barrel length. I don't know who made the bottom metal but it has a 10 round Box Magazine. It's sitting in what appears to be an HS Precision PST038 or PST026 and was built by a company called Bansners who are known more for hunting rifles rather than Tactical Rifles. As you can tell I haven't taken delivery of it yet. I'm doing my homework early and Y'all have given me PLENTY of Great info! Thanks again... Long-Live The Hide! </div></div>
It sounds like a solid rifle. What is the round count...cost...??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 30-06 can be as accurate as the 308, but they are ballistically similar as well.
TC </div></div>
Can you please quantify this.
I'd like to know the 308 loads that can push a 210 gr bullet 2700 fps, or a 155gr bullet at 3000+ fps from a 22" bbl. </div></div>
MM...
Your data is perfectly adequate to show the difference...obviously, anything the 308 can do, the 30-06 will do a little better...practical accuracy between the two has always appeared to be about the same to me...I wish all my 308s would grow up to be 30-06s...now if I could just figure out how to stretch the actions a little...
TC
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW!!! Great info Guys! I really appreciate it! As far as the rifle itself, it's a Remington 700 Long Action with a Lilja 1 in 10" twist Fluted Heavy Barrel and a Muzzle Break. I didn't ask the barrel length. I don't know who made the bottom metal but it has a 10 round Box Magazine. It's sitting in what appears to be an HS Precision PST038 or PST026 and was built by a company called Bansners who are known more for hunting rifles rather than Tactical Rifles. As you can tell I haven't taken delivery of it yet. I'm doing my homework early and Y'all have given me PLENTY of Great info! Thanks again... Long-Live The Hide! </div></div>
It sounds like a solid rifle. What is the round count...cost...??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 30-06 can be as accurate as the 308, but they are ballistically similar as well.
TC </div></div>
Can you please quantify this.
I'd like to know the 308 loads that can push a 210 gr bullet 2700 fps, or a 155gr bullet at 3000+ fps from a 22" bbl. </div></div>
MM...
Your data is perfectly adequate to show the difference...obviously, anything the 308 can do, the 30-06 will do a little better...practical accuracy between the two has always appeared to be about the same to me...I wish all my 308s would grow up to be 30-06s...now if I could just figure out how to stretch the actions a little...
TC
Re: .30'06 vs .308
WB,
Couldn't agree more on the foundation of 30-06 and 30-30. Nostalgia is a part of the reason. The other is the practicality and availablity of the rounds. Wouldn't be without them.
But I love my .308s and .223s too!
Shane,
Thanks for the recipes. I'll add em to my own and give them a try.
WB,
Couldn't agree more on the foundation of 30-06 and 30-30. Nostalgia is a part of the reason. The other is the practicality and availablity of the rounds. Wouldn't be without them.
But I love my .308s and .223s too!
Shane,
Thanks for the recipes. I'll add em to my own and give them a try.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
My '06 shooting has been pretty much restricted to the two bullets that I have many of: the 190SMK, and the 178gr Hornady Amax.
Lapua or LC M72 Match brass
190SMK
Fed 210M primer
60.7gr RL22
2900fps
Lapua or LC M72 Match brass
178gr Hornady Amax
Fed 210M primer
60.0gr VV N160
2950fps
The above were fired out of a rifle with a fluted 26" MTU contour Krieger barrel.
Don
My '06 shooting has been pretty much restricted to the two bullets that I have many of: the 190SMK, and the 178gr Hornady Amax.
Lapua or LC M72 Match brass
190SMK
Fed 210M primer
60.7gr RL22
2900fps
Lapua or LC M72 Match brass
178gr Hornady Amax
Fed 210M primer
60.0gr VV N160
2950fps
The above were fired out of a rifle with a fluted 26" MTU contour Krieger barrel.
Don
Re: .30'06 vs .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW!!! Great info Guys! I really appreciate it! As far as the rifle itself, it's a Remington 700 Long Action with a Lilja 1 in 10" twist Fluted Heavy Barrel and a Muzzle Break. I didn't ask the barrel length. I don't know who made the bottom metal but it has a 10 round Box Magazine. It's sitting in what appears to be an HS Precision PST038 or PST026 and was built by a company called Bansners who are known more for hunting rifles rather than Tactical Rifles. As you can tell I haven't taken delivery of it yet. I'm doing my homework early and Y'all have given me PLENTY of Great info! Thanks again... Long-Live The Hide! </div></div>
It sounds like a solid rifle. What is the round count...cost...??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 30-06 can be as accurate as the 308, but they are ballistically similar as well.
TC </div></div>
Can you please quantify this.
I'd like to know the 308 loads that can push a 210 gr bullet 2700 fps, or a 155gr bullet at 3000+ fps from a 22" bbl. </div></div>
MM...
Your data is perfectly adequate to show the difference...obviously, anything the 308 can do, the 30-06 will do a little better...practical accuracy between the two has always appeared to be about the same to me...I wish all my 308s would grow up to be 30-06s...now if I could just figure out how to stretch the actions a little...
TC</div></div> Actually, the round count is 20 according to the current owner. One box! I called Bansners to get the twist info and they told me the gun was only built about a month ago. The stock is damaged a little from an apparent fall against a rock but supposedly everything else is fine. The metal all looks fine but who's to say. I'll take him at his word on that but of course I'm a little nervous. The price was right though. With shipping it came to $855.00. HS Precision says they can probably fix the stock for minimal cost and will paint it basically for free. Yes... I know... With the damage to the stock and the low price it's hard to believe there's not more wrong with it and I'm really taking a chance... But What The Hell! If you don't take some chances you never get anywhere in life! It will at least be a learning experience! I figure the receiver, stock (after it's fixed) and bottom metal are worth as much as I'm paying if they're not all FUBAR.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneshot onekill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW!!! Great info Guys! I really appreciate it! As far as the rifle itself, it's a Remington 700 Long Action with a Lilja 1 in 10" twist Fluted Heavy Barrel and a Muzzle Break. I didn't ask the barrel length. I don't know who made the bottom metal but it has a 10 round Box Magazine. It's sitting in what appears to be an HS Precision PST038 or PST026 and was built by a company called Bansners who are known more for hunting rifles rather than Tactical Rifles. As you can tell I haven't taken delivery of it yet. I'm doing my homework early and Y'all have given me PLENTY of Great info! Thanks again... Long-Live The Hide! </div></div>
It sounds like a solid rifle. What is the round count...cost...??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 30-06 can be as accurate as the 308, but they are ballistically similar as well.
TC </div></div>
Can you please quantify this.
I'd like to know the 308 loads that can push a 210 gr bullet 2700 fps, or a 155gr bullet at 3000+ fps from a 22" bbl. </div></div>
MM...
Your data is perfectly adequate to show the difference...obviously, anything the 308 can do, the 30-06 will do a little better...practical accuracy between the two has always appeared to be about the same to me...I wish all my 308s would grow up to be 30-06s...now if I could just figure out how to stretch the actions a little...
TC</div></div> Actually, the round count is 20 according to the current owner. One box! I called Bansners to get the twist info and they told me the gun was only built about a month ago. The stock is damaged a little from an apparent fall against a rock but supposedly everything else is fine. The metal all looks fine but who's to say. I'll take him at his word on that but of course I'm a little nervous. The price was right though. With shipping it came to $855.00. HS Precision says they can probably fix the stock for minimal cost and will paint it basically for free. Yes... I know... With the damage to the stock and the low price it's hard to believe there's not more wrong with it and I'm really taking a chance... But What The Hell! If you don't take some chances you never get anywhere in life! It will at least be a learning experience! I figure the receiver, stock (after it's fixed) and bottom metal are worth as much as I'm paying if they're not all FUBAR.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: criver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About 9 years ago I was shooting a bunch of 308 at 1000 yards (imagine that) 175-SMK/Berger 185's. Running the 175's at 2800 and the 185's at 2730....... Well I got to thinking a 30-06 should run that 175 at 3000 no problem. Barreled up a rifle and 2950 the primers were falling out............kicked like a mule too. Thought well its just this barrel, did one 32 inches long in 30-06 Ackly Improved not any better. IMHO a 300 mag is more comfortable to shoot recoil is more of a push and a REAL difference in performance. </div></div>
Howdy Brother!
I shot the 30-06 seriously hard (and successfully) at 1000yards several years ago. Versus the 308, I think if you are considering a 30-06, you should also be looking at shooting bigger bullets. I think the 175 gr. is not a good match for the case capacity of the -06 and the recoil would be greater due to muzzle blast (or the rocket effect) from unburnt propellant. Heavier bullets with slower propellants will give more efficient combustion and optimize velocity. I also think the 32 inch barrel with 200 gr. bullets and 4350 would be real mother at 1000yd. I’d like to try that sometime. Then again there are some good shortened .300 cases, such as the .30 FBI, that have stronger, straighter cases........
MontanaMarine is absolutely correct that the -06 is good for ~200 fps over the .308 and .300 is again a 200 fps step over the -06. One thing you should be aware of , and the thing that finally made me abandon the -06 for 1000yd competition, is case life. The -06 feeds great due to low shoulder angel and body taper, but these feature also mean that the cases stretch a lot. This is especially true with the loads that give the best performance. At some point, its just easier to drive heavy bullets with larger cases. I think it goes without saying that long barrels are preferred. A barrel less than 24 inches with practically any load will be serious flamethrower. If you want a short barrel, the -06 is not a good choice.
If you want to have a go with the -06, here are the two best loads for long range that I have used in 28 inch barrels. Four reloads is about the limit on the cases.
1. 200 gr. SMK and 55 to 56 gr. 4350. This is a classic load that has won the Wimbledon.
2. 210 VLD or 220 SMK and 57-58 gr. of H4831 SC. Yes, you can get all that into a fired case. Use a long drop tube.
Note: These are both compressed charges. The propellants are slow enough with these bullets that you won’t get into the danger zone, although I hear that recent lots of IMR 4350 are hotter than in the past. Always work up with your specific rifle.
Regards,
Scott
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: criver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About 9 years ago I was shooting a bunch of 308 at 1000 yards (imagine that) 175-SMK/Berger 185's. Running the 175's at 2800 and the 185's at 2730....... Well I got to thinking a 30-06 should run that 175 at 3000 no problem. Barreled up a rifle and 2950 the primers were falling out............kicked like a mule too. Thought well its just this barrel, did one 32 inches long in 30-06 Ackly Improved not any better. IMHO a 300 mag is more comfortable to shoot recoil is more of a push and a REAL difference in performance. </div></div>
Howdy Brother!
I shot the 30-06 seriously hard (and successfully) at 1000yards several years ago. Versus the 308, I think if you are considering a 30-06, you should also be looking at shooting bigger bullets. I think the 175 gr. is not a good match for the case capacity of the -06 and the recoil would be greater due to muzzle blast (or the rocket effect) from unburnt propellant. Heavier bullets with slower propellants will give more efficient combustion and optimize velocity. I also think the 32 inch barrel with 200 gr. bullets and 4350 would be real mother at 1000yd. I’d like to try that sometime. Then again there are some good shortened .300 cases, such as the .30 FBI, that have stronger, straighter cases........
MontanaMarine is absolutely correct that the -06 is good for ~200 fps over the .308 and .300 is again a 200 fps step over the -06. One thing you should be aware of , and the thing that finally made me abandon the -06 for 1000yd competition, is case life. The -06 feeds great due to low shoulder angel and body taper, but these feature also mean that the cases stretch a lot. This is especially true with the loads that give the best performance. At some point, its just easier to drive heavy bullets with larger cases. I think it goes without saying that long barrels are preferred. A barrel less than 24 inches with practically any load will be serious flamethrower. If you want a short barrel, the -06 is not a good choice.
If you want to have a go with the -06, here are the two best loads for long range that I have used in 28 inch barrels. Four reloads is about the limit on the cases.
1. 200 gr. SMK and 55 to 56 gr. 4350. This is a classic load that has won the Wimbledon.
2. 210 VLD or 220 SMK and 57-58 gr. of H4831 SC. Yes, you can get all that into a fired case. Use a long drop tube.
Note: These are both compressed charges. The propellants are slow enough with these bullets that you won’t get into the danger zone, although I hear that recent lots of IMR 4350 are hotter than in the past. Always work up with your specific rifle.
Regards,
Scott
Re: .30'06 vs .308
I've been pushing 60gr RL22 under 210/208s for a long time now. I have been neck sizing (Lee Collet Die), and had no case life issues.
Current barrel has about 4000 rounds through it. 90% of those all went through 100 pieces of Norma brass, that are still in use.
I've been pushing 60gr RL22 under 210/208s for a long time now. I have been neck sizing (Lee Collet Die), and had no case life issues.
Current barrel has about 4000 rounds through it. 90% of those all went through 100 pieces of Norma brass, that are still in use.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: criver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About 9 years ago I was shooting a bunch of 308 at 1000 yards (imagine that) 175-SMK/Berger 185's. Running the 175's at 2800 and the 185's at 2730....... Well I got to thinking a 30-06 should run that 175 at 3000 no problem. Barreled up a rifle and 2950 the primers were falling out............kicked like a mule too. Thought well its just this barrel, did one 32 inches long in 30-06 Ackly Improved not any better. IMHO a 300 mag is more comfortable to shoot recoil is more of a push and a REAL difference in performance. </div></div>
Do you recall barrel length, and what powder you were loading?
I've never loaded 175/185s, but those velocity goals would seem fairly realistic without undue pressure.
I started at 190gr SMK, and went heavier from there, only lately dabbling with the 155 Scenar. 190s at 2900 fps from a 26" barrel is easy to do, via RL22.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: criver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">About 9 years ago I was shooting a bunch of 308 at 1000 yards (imagine that) 175-SMK/Berger 185's. Running the 175's at 2800 and the 185's at 2730....... Well I got to thinking a 30-06 should run that 175 at 3000 no problem. Barreled up a rifle and 2950 the primers were falling out............kicked like a mule too. Thought well its just this barrel, did one 32 inches long in 30-06 Ackly Improved not any better. IMHO a 300 mag is more comfortable to shoot recoil is more of a push and a REAL difference in performance. </div></div>
Do you recall barrel length, and what powder you were loading?
I've never loaded 175/185s, but those velocity goals would seem fairly realistic without undue pressure.
I started at 190gr SMK, and went heavier from there, only lately dabbling with the 155 Scenar. 190s at 2900 fps from a 26" barrel is easy to do, via RL22.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
Stiggy picked up my favorite 'old' 30-06, a Sako I used for over 20 years: He is going to try 168's and 190's with H4895 and RE22. He is loading tomorrow and shooting at 1000 with me Sunday. Anyone have good long range load suggestions with these powder/bullet combos?
Stiggy picked up my favorite 'old' 30-06, a Sako I used for over 20 years: He is going to try 168's and 190's with H4895 and RE22. He is loading tomorrow and shooting at 1000 with me Sunday. Anyone have good long range load suggestions with these powder/bullet combos?
Re: .30'06 vs .308
I can understand the need for a .223 AND a medium .260, .308, 30-06 and a heavy mag but unless you have money to burn I don't see why you would have both. I would pick one or the other. Then you can save a little money on additional reloading and supplies to buy better components and better dies presses etc. Wish I had the money for both.
I can understand the need for a .223 AND a medium .260, .308, 30-06 and a heavy mag but unless you have money to burn I don't see why you would have both. I would pick one or the other. Then you can save a little money on additional reloading and supplies to buy better components and better dies presses etc. Wish I had the money for both.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stiggy picked up my favorite 'old' 30-06, a Sako I used for over 20 years: He is going to try 168's and 190's with H4895 and RE22. He is loading tomorrow and shooting at 1000 with me Sunday. Anyone have good long range load suggestions with these powder/bullet combos? </div></div>
60gr RL22 under a 190 SMK was very accurate for me, about 2900 fps from 26" bbl.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stiggy picked up my favorite 'old' 30-06, a Sako I used for over 20 years: He is going to try 168's and 190's with H4895 and RE22. He is loading tomorrow and shooting at 1000 with me Sunday. Anyone have good long range load suggestions with these powder/bullet combos? </div></div>
60gr RL22 under a 190 SMK was very accurate for me, about 2900 fps from 26" bbl.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
32 inches and tried every powder I had IMR 4064 being the fastest through the 4350's/RE-19/N-160 4831...........I still have the Ackly Improved barrel. I decided that if I'm going to put up with this much recoil I would rather shoot a magnum.
32 inches and tried every powder I had IMR 4064 being the fastest through the 4350's/RE-19/N-160 4831...........I still have the Ackly Improved barrel. I decided that if I'm going to put up with this much recoil I would rather shoot a magnum.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
That's interesting.
Quickload calculates N550 or W760 should be able to launch 175s from the 30-06AI at 3150 or so, at 60-62K pressure, via 32" bbl. Nearly 3200 fps with moly'd bulets.
That's interesting.
Quickload calculates N550 or W760 should be able to launch 175s from the 30-06AI at 3150 or so, at 60-62K pressure, via 32" bbl. Nearly 3200 fps with moly'd bulets.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
I've hunted whitetail for 6 years now in Michigan's U.P. with a variety of rifles. On paper I'm good with everything I've picked up so far, but the only thing I've ever had any luck with in the field is my 1903 in 30'06. For target and high volume I wouldn't get it, but for hunting, I wouldn't get anything else. also, I really like the versatility of being able to load an accurate round for anything from coyote to bear.
I've hunted whitetail for 6 years now in Michigan's U.P. with a variety of rifles. On paper I'm good with everything I've picked up so far, but the only thing I've ever had any luck with in the field is my 1903 in 30'06. For target and high volume I wouldn't get it, but for hunting, I wouldn't get anything else. also, I really like the versatility of being able to load an accurate round for anything from coyote to bear.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
If you already have a 308win, why not just skip a 30-06 and get a 300win? Just my thoughts.
If you already have a 308win, why not just skip a 30-06 and get a 300win? Just my thoughts.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Happy medium....
30-06 AI
BTW, take a careful look at what Shane says. He knows his '06's and speaks from experience. </div></div>
I agree...I've got a 30-06AI as well and it performs well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RussW1911 ®</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Happy medium....
30-06 AI
BTW, take a careful look at what Shane says. He knows his '06's and speaks from experience. </div></div>
I agree...I've got a 30-06AI as well and it performs well.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
have been debating this for a while myself. Just traded for an older savage '06 a few weeks ago, w/ a pencil barrel and irons. Am looking to put heavier barrel, dbm,stock,etc... am leaning toward 308, but... The rifle will be a hunter/target shooter. Hogs, deer, and some 'yotes. Found 20" threaded varmint profile barrel pretty cheap($139) and the selection of 308 ammo is a little better( don't reload yet). the hunting will be inside of 400, but would like to ring some steel out to say 7-800. Does anyone make a dbm for the '06? Checked CDI site, but didn't find anything, just SA savage. Any suggestions appreciated.
Eric
have been debating this for a while myself. Just traded for an older savage '06 a few weeks ago, w/ a pencil barrel and irons. Am looking to put heavier barrel, dbm,stock,etc... am leaning toward 308, but... The rifle will be a hunter/target shooter. Hogs, deer, and some 'yotes. Found 20" threaded varmint profile barrel pretty cheap($139) and the selection of 308 ammo is a little better( don't reload yet). the hunting will be inside of 400, but would like to ring some steel out to say 7-800. Does anyone make a dbm for the '06? Checked CDI site, but didn't find anything, just SA savage. Any suggestions appreciated.
Eric
Re: .30'06 vs .308
Just got out of a 300WSM to the '06. Looking at saving a bit on ammo and recoil, while getting some quality trigger time. figured inside 800 the 308 or '06 were plenty, and still capable of going to 1000 if skills develope to that level.
Just got out of a 300WSM to the '06. Looking at saving a bit on ammo and recoil, while getting some quality trigger time. figured inside 800 the 308 or '06 were plenty, and still capable of going to 1000 if skills develope to that level.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you already have a 308win, why not just skip a 30-06 and get a 300win? Just my thoughts. </div></div>
Seems like a duh to me also......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vkc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you already have a 308win, why not just skip a 30-06 and get a 300win? Just my thoughts. </div></div>
Seems like a duh to me also......
Re: .30'06 vs .308
The way I would look at the 308 vs 30-06 vs 300.This is my guidelines. From a power stand point as in I think they would over lap each other. Dont get me wrong the 308 can go 1000 yards.
Its all about bullet choice.
308 from 100-400 yards.
30-06 from 400-800 yards
300 win mag 800 to 1200 yards
The way I would look at the 308 vs 30-06 vs 300.This is my guidelines. From a power stand point as in I think they would over lap each other. Dont get me wrong the 308 can go 1000 yards.
Its all about bullet choice.
308 from 100-400 yards.
30-06 from 400-800 yards
300 win mag 800 to 1200 yards
Re: .30'06 vs .308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trailrider121</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The way I would look at the 308 vs 30-06 vs 300.This is my guidelines. From a power stand point as in I think they would over lap each other. Dont get me wrong the 308 can go 1000 yards.
Its all about bullet choice.
308 from 100-400 yards.
30-06 from 400-800 yards
300 win mag 800 to 1200 yards
</div></div>
308 stays very lethal to around 700m
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trailrider121</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The way I would look at the 308 vs 30-06 vs 300.This is my guidelines. From a power stand point as in I think they would over lap each other. Dont get me wrong the 308 can go 1000 yards.
Its all about bullet choice.
308 from 100-400 yards.
30-06 from 400-800 yards
300 win mag 800 to 1200 yards
</div></div>
308 stays very lethal to around 700m
Re: .30'06 vs .308
I look at the differences in this manner,
Assume 26" bbl, sea level, 208gr AMax at Litz BC of .630.
308 launches a 208 AMax at 2600 fps, retains 1200 fps to 1350 yards.
30-06 launches a 208 AMax at 2800 fps, retains 1200 fps to 1500 yards.
300 WinMag launches a 208 AMax at 3000 fps, retains 1200 fps to 1625 yards.
I look at the differences in this manner,
Assume 26" bbl, sea level, 208gr AMax at Litz BC of .630.
308 launches a 208 AMax at 2600 fps, retains 1200 fps to 1350 yards.
30-06 launches a 208 AMax at 2800 fps, retains 1200 fps to 1500 yards.
300 WinMag launches a 208 AMax at 3000 fps, retains 1200 fps to 1625 yards.
Re: .30'06 vs .308
My 2 cents: hope to give you another angle to look at; 1000 people will have 1000 different opinions and what ifs... 308 has been around for a while now and battle proven way out past 700 yards..ammo is plentiful and in current military surplus production all over unlike the others.. Short action let's you keep your eyes down range and on target while chambering another round..cheaper to shoot... Easier on the old bones to shoot.. Again probably nothing new to you, just another pov
My 2 cents: hope to give you another angle to look at; 1000 people will have 1000 different opinions and what ifs... 308 has been around for a while now and battle proven way out past 700 yards..ammo is plentiful and in current military surplus production all over unlike the others.. Short action let's you keep your eyes down range and on target while chambering another round..cheaper to shoot... Easier on the old bones to shoot.. Again probably nothing new to you, just another pov
Re: .30'06 vs .308
MM,
since you've exp. w/ both rounds, what would be the min. barrel length for the '06? and still maintain the edge over the 308 regarding velocity. i've seen alot about guys running 20" 308's to 1000, but nothing much really regarding the old '06. All while using factory loaded ammo( for now).
thanks,
Eric
MM,
since you've exp. w/ both rounds, what would be the min. barrel length for the '06? and still maintain the edge over the 308 regarding velocity. i've seen alot about guys running 20" 308's to 1000, but nothing much really regarding the old '06. All while using factory loaded ammo( for now).
thanks,
Eric
Re: .30'06 vs .308
Just as it's likely true that for most of what the .308 can do, the .30-'06 can do better, it's also possible that for most of what the .30-'06 can do, the .280 can also probably do better too.
Wringing the full potential out of the .30-'06 usually dictates loading the cartridge up to near-300WM performance levels. Honestly, driving a 200+gr VLD at max performance velocities is a bit too snarly for the likes of me.
This is where I start to prefer the .280. It is not impossible to drive a 150gr Nos BT fast enough to keep it supersonic welll past 1000yd. It may get loud, but my shoulder thanks me; especially if I'm going to be shooting a few boxes worth at a time.
There's no question the '06 will arrive with mucho more terminal energy.
But I see it the other way around.
I'm thinking that maybe I have to put too much muzzle energy into the .30 cal to get the bullet out there far enough and still be supersonic.
I mean, just how much terminal energy do I need anyway, as long as I can reliably deliver what's getting there with acceptible shot placement? Maybe not as much as the '06, but what about the .308?
Better BC per grain of bullet weight, better velocity for that BC, and maybe even with less overall energy expenditure and recoil. What makes the .260 an improvement over the .308 is the very same thing that makes the .280 better than the '06.
In any case, I think it's an interesting and viable alternative to the .308, and maybe to the '06 as well.
I'm still doing my initial experimentation with the .280; but even going as slow as I have, it just keeps looking like a great choice for LR stuff.
For up until now, my guns have been a hunter and a varmint rifle. I think it's time to conserve their bore life for their intended purposes; and to get hold of a custom barrel and put it on an LR optimized platform. .280 Ghost Dancer time?
Greg
Just as it's likely true that for most of what the .308 can do, the .30-'06 can do better, it's also possible that for most of what the .30-'06 can do, the .280 can also probably do better too.
Wringing the full potential out of the .30-'06 usually dictates loading the cartridge up to near-300WM performance levels. Honestly, driving a 200+gr VLD at max performance velocities is a bit too snarly for the likes of me.
This is where I start to prefer the .280. It is not impossible to drive a 150gr Nos BT fast enough to keep it supersonic welll past 1000yd. It may get loud, but my shoulder thanks me; especially if I'm going to be shooting a few boxes worth at a time.
There's no question the '06 will arrive with mucho more terminal energy.
But I see it the other way around.
I'm thinking that maybe I have to put too much muzzle energy into the .30 cal to get the bullet out there far enough and still be supersonic.
I mean, just how much terminal energy do I need anyway, as long as I can reliably deliver what's getting there with acceptible shot placement? Maybe not as much as the '06, but what about the .308?
Better BC per grain of bullet weight, better velocity for that BC, and maybe even with less overall energy expenditure and recoil. What makes the .260 an improvement over the .308 is the very same thing that makes the .280 better than the '06.
In any case, I think it's an interesting and viable alternative to the .308, and maybe to the '06 as well.
I'm still doing my initial experimentation with the .280; but even going as slow as I have, it just keeps looking like a great choice for LR stuff.
For up until now, my guns have been a hunter and a varmint rifle. I think it's time to conserve their bore life for their intended purposes; and to get hold of a custom barrel and put it on an LR optimized platform. .280 Ghost Dancer time?
Greg
