I loaded 10ea. 230LRHT with 77.0 of Staball HD to chrono only. Through my 28" bbl I recorded 2820 with no pressure signs. However, the numbers sucked(43/23.1(?)). I charge with FX120 and V4. Deciding if I want to continue with these nice pills and that powder.
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.300wm - .300wsm
- Thread starter Two Shoes
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Yeah I don't know if it's trying to light that much ball powder in a long skinny column like the winmag or what it is. I had some trouble with the magpro having high es/sd at first. Ran through all my different LR primers and ended up with standard Winchester LR. I had es down around 20 during load development where I was trickling every charge. When I finally loaded some up I only checked every fifth round and I just threw them on my Harrels measure. Loaded rounds es ended up around 40! Oops. Still got consistent hits at 1k though. But yeah, I need to do better on that.
I want to pick up a pound of the HD to try. I've read where several people have struggled to get velocity with it though.
How does military 300WM brass (FC) compare to other brands? I know it's only once fired from a bolt gun that probably has good specs. One would think they should be pretty decent since they have to meet Mil Spec.
Thanks,
E_T_G
Thanks,
E_T_G
I'm glad you posted this. I've been going to ask this question for two days now. An acquaintance local to me is selling out of the 300winmag business and has some primed military brass, headstamp FC10, supposed to have 215m primers in them. I'm wondering about the quality as well.
Case capacity on the FC brass is a little low. I loaded some of those a while back using a recipe built on winchester cases and blew the primer pockets out well below the listed max.
I would definitely start low and work up. If you're not pushing to the max, they'll probably do alright. My 208 a-max loads hit 2980-3000 fps when my primer pockets said adios.
I should probably avoid them then. I keep trying to make my winmag a prc.
Running Norma brass and a 215 hybrid at 2930 right now. 2x fired and they still feel okay. R-P brass with a 212eldx going 2850ish on its 3rd firing and it feels like I'll get one or two more out of them.
How is the nosler brass ? Same guy has two boxes of them also.
FWIW, I ran into a guy with same issues using US869 and he said to switch to magnum primers for that exact reason. I have 20 prepped cases laying out and I will try same load with GM215M.
Attachments
Tried two loads for comparison. Used a 208 Hornady ELD-M with 69.4g of RE22 and 71g of H1000. Both actually shot about the same. Didn't take my chrono so not sure of the speed. The accuracy was good so it gives me something to work with.
New rifle
Rem 700 custom shop pre-bankruptcy action
23 inch X-Caliber pipe, 1:10 twist, 5R rifling
OSS HXQD 762 Suppressor
Norma Brass
Federal Premium magnum primers
H4350
168 Hornady ELD Match
Broke the barrel in over the weekend. Made some test loads Sunday and shot tonight. Pretty impressed with these first test rounds trying to find pressure (didn't find it and now have no intention of loading hotter).
Chamber measurements
LANDS: 2.806 COL: 3.438
All test group rounds set at 2.796
3 round test groups
Group 1: 70.5 grains of H4350 at 0.67 MOA
Group 2: 71.0 grains at 0.55 MOA
Group 3: 71.4 grains (Hornady Reloading Manual max load) 0.48 MOA
Group 4: 71.7 grains at 0.40 MOA
I am going to load up two more test batches of Group 3 and 4 to chrono. Will update with results and pictures
Rem 700 custom shop pre-bankruptcy action
23 inch X-Caliber pipe, 1:10 twist, 5R rifling
OSS HXQD 762 Suppressor
Norma Brass
Federal Premium magnum primers
H4350
168 Hornady ELD Match
Broke the barrel in over the weekend. Made some test loads Sunday and shot tonight. Pretty impressed with these first test rounds trying to find pressure (didn't find it and now have no intention of loading hotter).
Chamber measurements
LANDS: 2.806 COL: 3.438
All test group rounds set at 2.796
3 round test groups
Group 1: 70.5 grains of H4350 at 0.67 MOA
Group 2: 71.0 grains at 0.55 MOA
Group 3: 71.4 grains (Hornady Reloading Manual max load) 0.48 MOA
Group 4: 71.7 grains at 0.40 MOA
I am going to load up two more test batches of Group 3 and 4 to chrono. Will update with results and pictures
AB's and Scirocco's not the same, jacket on Scirocco is near pure copper, creates more pressure than AB's
I believe Nosler brass is made by Norma. I could be wrong.I should probably avoid them then. I keep trying to make my winmag a prc.
Running Norma brass and a 215 hybrid at 2930 right now. 2x fired and they still feel okay. R-P brass with a 212eldx going 2850ish on its 3rd firing and it feels like I'll get one or two more out of them.
How is the nosler brass ? Same guy has two boxes of them also.
Norma brass has been fantastic for me. I only have a hunting load right now with a 180gn interlock,Norma brass,Winchester LRM primers and 82.5gn of H1000. On my 6th or 7th firing.
AL
Posted this somewhere else, but figured you 300 WSM guys will be happy about this
www.lapua.com
Lapua Announces Two Cartridge Cases: 300 WSM and 6mm GT
We are proud to announce the addition of .300 Winchester Short Magnum (WSM) and 6mm GT cartridge cases to our product offering in 2024. Lapua cartridge cases are known to exceed the quality and…
www.lapua.com
1-8's are usually allocated for 245/250 gr projectiles or solids and if you're thinking of a 208 ELD, a 1-8 is encroaching into jacket separation territory.
Even if you can push a 208 at 3000 fps you are still only looking at 270,000 rpm which is significantly under the general idea of around 300-320k causing potential separation
Try doing a little research on ELDM's and jacket failure. Doesn't have to be close to 300,000.
Range Report - Hornady 147 ELDM blowing up
Searched for 147 ELDM jacket separation or bullets blowing up/coming apart down range on here and one dead thread with 7 posts about the 147 and another on the 180 ELDMs. Over the past 2 weeks i've talked to at least 15 people who have experienced both factory Hornady 6.5PRC and reloads using...
www.snipershide.com
It’s not all Eldm…the 147/180 is one that has a history specifically with the 6.5 PRC. You may want to research the heavier 30 cals at least I havent read or heard anything about bullets other than the 147/180Try doing a little research on ELDM's and jacket failure. Doesn't have to be close to 300,000.
Range Report - Hornady 147 ELDM blowing up
Searched for 147 ELDM jacket separation or bullets blowing up/coming apart down range on here and one dead thread with 7 posts about the 147 and another on the 180 ELDMs. Over the past 2 weeks i've talked to at least 15 people who have experienced both factory Hornady 6.5PRC and reloads using...
Did you read through the posts? I have been seeing jacket separation on these bullets of all weights for years. The jackets are all the same no matter what the weight is, and if you're going to spin them 250,000 or above, you're asking for problems.
I seem to be having some trouble with my 300wm and I was hoping maybe some of you guys in here could help. I have a 300 I built last fall as a tactical/comp rifle. Rem700 long action, 23 inch XCaliber 1:10 twist senderro profile barrel with a 7 inch Huxwerx suppressor. As of today I have 196 rounds down the pipe. My problem is this…after barrel break in and load development I settled on the 168 ELD Match in Norma brass with 71.4 grains of H4350 set 1/10,000th of lands. My accuracy was phenomenal at sub half MOA every time I went out. Two days ago I switched some gear on the rifle to a 50 MOA MDT base, zero MOA spuhr mount, and a Zeiss s3 6-36. After getting everything set and torqued, the best group I could produce yesterday and today was .81 when previously the best was .39 and hovered around that .45-.49 range. Any suggestions? Is there something blatantly obvious I’m missing? Did adding a different base and mount with different torque specs change my harmonics? I’m going to the NF Steel Challenge in June and am trying to square this away pretty quick. Thanks in advance for anyone who has any suggestions!
Interesting. I wouldn't think changing mounts/ bases and a scope would mess with the harmonics but I guess anything is possible.
thicker reticle covering more of you poa leading to larger groups ? Maybe a little more parallax in this scope vs the previous? I'll be interested in seeing what others have to say.
I got a bad scope one time straight out of the box. Put it on a known shooter and the rifle opened up about like yours. Ended up in a warranty case with the manufacturer. When I got the scope back the rifle went back to killing it.
thicker reticle covering more of you poa leading to larger groups ? Maybe a little more parallax in this scope vs the previous? I'll be interested in seeing what others have to say.
I got a bad scope one time straight out of the box. Put it on a known shooter and the rifle opened up about like yours. Ended up in a warranty case with the manufacturer. When I got the scope back the rifle went back to killing it.
Sorry, I forgot to add that I had some 180s left over from barrel break in and shot those to get the brass and the shot substantially better than the 168 even though that wasn’t the case earlier when I was doing load development so it isn’t the optic thankfully
ok i will do that. during load development the average speed was 3064 with a SD of 19. Two days ago I used the chrono again and the speed had picked up to a 3076 average but the SD was better at 9. Both chrono test groups were 12 rounds with the first two being thown out
3064 and 3076 are both within your normal error with your SD numbers (ES is generally going to be around 3.5-4x your SD). Yeah it could be some fouling causing it also. Clean and retest like Nick mentioned to get a better idea.
180gr Warner Tool Company 308, 300WM, Brux 26in barrel, TRG-42A1:
Shot them this fall at @Lowlight 's PA course, and they where wind agnostic at 1000 yards... literally unaffected by 6MPH winds. "Hold 2 mils left..." shot the dirt. "What happened?" "I held two mils left... Let try center of target" <Dong!> He He.
Those are using Hornady Brass.
Shot them this fall at @Lowlight 's PA course, and they where wind agnostic at 1000 yards... literally unaffected by 6MPH winds. "Hold 2 mils left..." shot the dirt. "What happened?" "I held two mils left... Let try center of target" <Dong!> He He.
Those are using Hornady Brass.
300WM Brass, my experiences...
I really wish I had seen the brass question posts when they were posted.
FC brass tends to kinda suck from a consistency perspective.
Lapua is pretty great.
Norma brass is the best, and it used to be that the Lapua brass was made by Norma. YMMV.
Peterson is pretty good. I've loaded a bunch of their "Long" variant 300WM. That said, I'm a little unimpressed by the sorting of it (it seems to sort in 3 traunches of weight range, and if you sort them... you get ~8-10SD out of the loads.
In depth review of Peterson 300WM brasses:
www.longrangehunting.com
Hornady is ok, again, you end up sorting it.
Winchester is ok, still more need to sort it...
Remington is ok, still requires sorting....
Gunwerks brass is good, also required a fair amount of sorting...
Nosler brass is NOT USED. It's probably fine, but they sold me a boat load of 300WM brass years ago and the belts were out of tolerance on pretty much 40% of all of the cases. It was a debacle. Their basic attitude was that rather than replace all of the brass with a new lot (so that they were uniform), they'd send me individual pieces to replace the bad ones (of which there were many). As such, I avoid their brass like the plague.
ADG brass... I'd probably avoid it as I've had huge inconsistencies with some ammo loaded with it, and the massive swings in accuracy where related to the brass (weighed after the fact). That said, the ammo supplier is the issue as they clearly didn't sort... Of course, if you did that with Norma / Lapua / RWS / possibly Peterson, you'd be fine...
Quote from Long Range Hunting:
"I bought and received 800 cases of 300 Win Mag from ADG in April 2018. All but 15 pieces weighed between 247-250.9 grains. 3 were a little lighter (in the 246 grain range) and 12 were a little heavier (in the 251 grain range.) 369 of the cases were 248 grain, 231 cases were 249 grains, 117 were 247 grains, 68 were 250 grain. My water volume measurements of fired cases put them at 92 gr of water volume."
RWS is GREAT, like Norma and Lapua, but I did have to do a bit of sorting. It's also VERY heavy; don't try your normal load from Winchester / Remington / Hornady in RWS if that load is at the top of the range. (Same goes for Norma and Lapua brass, which tend to be heavier / thicker.)
Only Lapua and Norma are consistent enough that sorting is only required if you are SUPER anal (trying to get to that 5-10SD range.)
I really wish I had seen the brass question posts when they were posted.
FC brass tends to kinda suck from a consistency perspective.
Lapua is pretty great.
Norma brass is the best, and it used to be that the Lapua brass was made by Norma. YMMV.
Peterson is pretty good. I've loaded a bunch of their "Long" variant 300WM. That said, I'm a little unimpressed by the sorting of it (it seems to sort in 3 traunches of weight range, and if you sort them... you get ~8-10SD out of the loads.
In depth review of Peterson 300WM brasses:
Peterson 300 WM - Std Length vs. Long - Initial Data & Impressions
Peterson 300 Win Mag brass - Standard Length vs. Long - Initial Data & Impressions Introduction This thread is being generated for a number of reasons, not the least of which is in relation to the comments and questions that have come up during the multiple active threads regarding the release...
Hornady is ok, again, you end up sorting it.
Winchester is ok, still more need to sort it...
Remington is ok, still requires sorting....
Gunwerks brass is good, also required a fair amount of sorting...
Nosler brass is NOT USED. It's probably fine, but they sold me a boat load of 300WM brass years ago and the belts were out of tolerance on pretty much 40% of all of the cases. It was a debacle. Their basic attitude was that rather than replace all of the brass with a new lot (so that they were uniform), they'd send me individual pieces to replace the bad ones (of which there were many). As such, I avoid their brass like the plague.
ADG brass... I'd probably avoid it as I've had huge inconsistencies with some ammo loaded with it, and the massive swings in accuracy where related to the brass (weighed after the fact). That said, the ammo supplier is the issue as they clearly didn't sort... Of course, if you did that with Norma / Lapua / RWS / possibly Peterson, you'd be fine...
Quote from Long Range Hunting:
"I bought and received 800 cases of 300 Win Mag from ADG in April 2018. All but 15 pieces weighed between 247-250.9 grains. 3 were a little lighter (in the 246 grain range) and 12 were a little heavier (in the 251 grain range.) 369 of the cases were 248 grain, 231 cases were 249 grains, 117 were 247 grains, 68 were 250 grain. My water volume measurements of fired cases put them at 92 gr of water volume."
RWS is GREAT, like Norma and Lapua, but I did have to do a bit of sorting. It's also VERY heavy; don't try your normal load from Winchester / Remington / Hornady in RWS if that load is at the top of the range. (Same goes for Norma and Lapua brass, which tend to be heavier / thicker.)
Only Lapua and Norma are consistent enough that sorting is only required if you are SUPER anal (trying to get to that 5-10SD range.)
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This can be an insulting question and it's not meant to be...
Did you absolutely double check to make sure everything (rings, bases, etc...) were tight?
I ask because I learned the hard way.
As far as changing the harmonics. I guess it could be possible. You changed something, although it wasn't on the barrel itself. I changed how one of my rifles shot by adjusting the action bolt torque... Didn't touch the barrel at all: Except the possibility that maybe the end of the forward action bolt was possibly making contact with something before I adjusted it X in/lbs.
But I wouldn't think a scope mount screw could exert enough force to do that... And I would think a scope mount would flex before the receiver would. Which in theory might potentially cause issues if anything moves from shot to shot.
Did anything feel like it was binding when you were putting it together?
Mike
I had a base on a friend's 700 in 280AI give me fits one time. There was an edge that wasn't machined off properly when it was manufactured I guess, that would bind on the top of the reciever when you tightened it down. You thought you were good and torqued but it would come loose under recoil. But then it would kind of wedge itself back tight. Yeah we chased that one for a while.
1200 rounds into my 300 win mag and it's shooting better than ever. Lapua brass, H4350, Fed 215m, Berger 215 hybrid, no annealing - Alex wheeler cut proof 1.2' straight.
Looking for a sanity check factory load velocities. This ammunition is probably a couple of years old now.
9 twist 1.25 full profile 32 inch barrel.
I will be hand loading either 230atip or 178eldx down the track with 2225/Retumbo for heavy and probably 2209/H4350 for light.
Hornady 300winmag 195gr ELDM Match ammunition gave 3024 fps with 12.5SD for 5 shots. Factory stated velocity 2930fps 24 inch test barrel. Couple of primers were a bit flat but consistent with hundreds of rounds of 140 hpbt American gunner I have fired in 6.5cm without issue.
Hornady 300winmag Custom 195GR BTHP gave 3115 fps and I stopped at the 3rd round as it was hard to extract. Obvious ejector marks on cases. This load doesn't appear available any longer? Will edit with box velocity when I get home.
Hornady Precision Hunter 200ELDX gave 2923fps box velocity 2860fps for 24 inch barrel.
What's a reasonable case head expansion and where should I measure on a belted cartridge?
I would have thought there was a bit more than 7- 12fps/inch of barrel velocity gain, are these factory loadings all over the shop? I can probably chuck the factory 26 inch sporter barrel back on just to see what they run from it?
9 twist 1.25 full profile 32 inch barrel.
I will be hand loading either 230atip or 178eldx down the track with 2225/Retumbo for heavy and probably 2209/H4350 for light.
Hornady 300winmag 195gr ELDM Match ammunition gave 3024 fps with 12.5SD for 5 shots. Factory stated velocity 2930fps 24 inch test barrel. Couple of primers were a bit flat but consistent with hundreds of rounds of 140 hpbt American gunner I have fired in 6.5cm without issue.
Hornady 300winmag Custom 195GR BTHP gave 3115 fps and I stopped at the 3rd round as it was hard to extract. Obvious ejector marks on cases. This load doesn't appear available any longer? Will edit with box velocity when I get home.
Hornady Precision Hunter 200ELDX gave 2923fps box velocity 2860fps for 24 inch barrel.
What's a reasonable case head expansion and where should I measure on a belted cartridge?
I would have thought there was a bit more than 7- 12fps/inch of barrel velocity gain, are these factory loadings all over the shop? I can probably chuck the factory 26 inch sporter barrel back on just to see what they run from it?
Glad I found this thread. I have a 300 WSM with a 22" Proof CF en route. I have H4350 and RL16 available. Will be picking up Hornady brass unless Lapua becomes available soon.
I'd like to run 190gr Accubond LRs, but I cannot find a starting point for any of these combos. Am I looking at the wrong powders?
I'd like to run 190gr Accubond LRs, but I cannot find a starting point for any of these combos. Am I looking at the wrong powders?
ADI lists a 190gr load with 2209/H4350. That probably means reloader 16 will go a touch faster for equal pressure?
Just in case you have trust issues with burn rates. H4350 is the ADI powder repackaged in the US.
https://www.adiworldclass.com.au/powder-equivalents/
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