.308 best barrel length

[TonyAngel]

Hey guys, I think I may have screwed up my barrel or there is an excess of copper build up someplace or something. In any case, I'm tired of dealing with it. I just ordered a barrel from Krieger. It's going to be 26" long, so I can go up to 25" long on it, once all is said and done.

I really like my 20". It's quite handy, but don't like the sacrifice in velocity that comes with such a short barrel. The longest that I'm going to be shooting is 600 yards. My dilemma is that I don't know what barrel length to go with. My first impulse was to go with 22". Will I gain much by going to 24 or 25"? For that matter, will going to 22" get me much?

 

[Rob01]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Do a search. This is covered almost daily but definitely weekly.

 

[xNF_9]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Use the snipershide google search very helpful. Could someone post a link for me I don't have the link on my iTouch.

 

[larbhills]

Re: .308 best barrel length

http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=010955838166721108978:qcbx5qqy10o&hl=en

 

[rickp]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Are you thinking about adding a suppressor to it in the future.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of short barrels mainly because of velocity. We all know you can reach 1000y with a short barrel but with not much punch IMO.

I would do about 24" maybe 22 if adding a can, but probably 24".

R.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: .308 best barrel length

For me, 20-22" is best.....except when it isn't....

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: .308 best barrel length

An inch or two either way doesn't amount to a huge ballistic difference with the 308.

Put more thought into twist rate, and bullet choice.

 

[81sfo]

Re: .308 best barrel length

If you're only going up to 600yds ,id recommend 18.5-20". If you don't like short barrels then go 22" for best all around length.With the right powder and bullet combo you won't loose anything.It's all is a compromise anyway,short barrel or long barrel ,oh well.good luck

 

[larbhills]

Re: .308 best barrel length

I don't have a chronograph so I don't know my exact muzzle velocity but in order to get my dope to come out right I have estimated it. I'm shooting a Savage 10 PC with a 20" barrel and I think I should go subsonic at around 1000 yards. And my load is pretty low pressure too.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: .308 best barrel length

I did use the search function guys, but what I was hoping for was perhaps some critical remarks from guys that do a lot of long range shooting.

I was hoping that someone might be able to clue me in on what a "sweet spot" might be between good velocity and having to be a champion wind reader because the bullet is taking a longer flight.

What I have stuck in my head is that I've had some people tell me that 2400fps is too slow for shooting out to 600 yards. I've also had people tell me that 2600 is a good velocity because it doesn't leave the bullets swaying out in the wind for too long. I guess I'm looking on advise as to what the best compromise would be.

I guess the best compromise is going to be to get another rifle. I suppose I could just leave this one at 24" when I get the new barrel. I do have an LTR barrel sitting in my parts box and got wind of a used action for sale at the range and I have my old X-Mark trigger and SPS Tactical stock and bottom metal. All that would leave is having to buy another scope.

Heck, I just don't know.

 

[head2h2o]

Re: .308 best barrel length

I would choose to go as long as possible, so for you 25". I like mine to be at least 26". The reality is that you may loose a few fps by going shorter, but you will still have great accuracy. If you are considering shorter and only going to 600, the velocity drop is going to be insignificant in real world application. If you stretch it to a 1000yd, it will be more noticable, but nothing that you can't easily compensate for with a turn of the turret.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: .308 best barrel length

The thing to consider is how much do you want to haul around, and how does it balance. If you are shooting from a bench, or square range, longer probably isn't an issue. if you are out walking around, or maneuvering in close quarters/vehicles etc, then a long barrel might be a bit cumbersome.

Comparing 2400 to 2600 fps....Trust me, you won't see 200 fps difference in a a couple inches of 308 barrel. More like 15 fps per inch. I cut mine from 26" to 20.5", and lost about 90 fps, with my warmish handloads.

No need to over-think it. If in doubt, go with the longer length under consideration. If you want, you can always cut some off down the road.

 

[larbhills]

Re: .308 best barrel length

I love my 20" 308. I believe it is a stiffer barrel than it would be if it was longer. I have never felt handicapped by the small drop in velocity.

 

[Graham]

Re: .308 best barrel length

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/longrange_shooting/ideal_barrel_308_tactical_rifle.htm

 

[AUJohn]

Re: .308 best barrel length

600, who cares

Get what YOU want, what fits YOUR need.
If you want to get out to 1K and further then keep it long.
If you always have a short then keep it long.

OTOH, if you are just shooting rocks and "stuff" then accuracy does not matter much which is why many are happy with short barrels at longer ranges. After all, 2MOA targets are quite small....

 

[michael_aos]

Re: .308 best barrel length

I've been shooting a 22" 260 Remington the last couple of years.

139gr Scenar @ ~2800fps.

I sometimes think it might be nice to have a longer barrel, just so I didn't have to work the brass so hard. Velocity would be similar.

But the accuracy with the 22" barrel has really been great.

 

[xNF_9]

Re: .308 best barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/longrange_shooting/ideal_barrel_308_tactical_rifle.htm </div></div>

Never seen that before. Great article. I'll make sure my 26" 700P becomes a 22" after I rebarrel it.

 

[fx77]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Life and shooting are trdoffs
Good article thanks

 

[JamieD]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Don't beat yourself up to badly. It's not as big a deal breaker as you might think.

If you are running a 24" .308 shooting the 155 A-max and running 2900fps you speed at 1000 yards will be 1260fps

Now you cut it back to 20" and loose 150FPS at the muzzle, your 1000 yard speed is 1188. You Didn't loose 150fps at 1000, you lost 72fps or just 5 percent. It's not a deal breaker.

Just trying to keep it simple. You lost only 5 percent at the muzzle as well. If you like it short, don't sweat the little stuff. I just built a 20" .260 and it looses 120fps from my 24" with the same bullet/load or just 79fps at 1000.

Hope that helps,

JamieD

______________________________
Jamie Dodson
Wolf Precision
814-262-7994

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: .308 best barrel length

I appreciate all of the input from you guys. It certainly provided me with some food for thought. The first thing that I figured out is that I am over thinking this. The second thing is that I really needed to just take a little time and assess my needs. i think I got side tracked because I'm kind of excited about shooting this first competition this Saturday. I've never done anything like that before, but the fact of the matter is that I need a rifle that I can hump around with me and that means that it has to be short so that it doesn't get hung up.

I'm going to go ahead and get this barrel that's coming in cut to 20". I do love the way that my SPS handles, so I'm not going to change that right now. If this 600 yard thing gets to be something that I fall in love with and it appears that having a longer barrel will be an advantage, I'll just build another rifle with a longer barrel.

Thanks again.

 

[azimutha]

Re: .308 best barrel length

I have two .308s - an LTR with a 20" and another Remy with a 24". I usually find that I take the LTR out hunting because the shorter barrel just doesn't get in the way as much. The MV diff between the two is 90-100 fps.

 

[AUJohn]

Re: .308 best barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamieD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't beat yourself up to badly. It's not as big a deal breaker as you might think.

If you are running a 24" .308 shooting the 155 A-max and running 2900fps you speed at 1000 yards will be 1260fps
Now you cut it back to 20" and loose 150FPS at the muzzle, your 1000 yard speed is 1188. You Didn't loose 150fps at 1000, you lost 72fps or just 5 percent. It's not a deal breaker.

<span style="color: #FF0000">If HIS gun does not lose more, IF the conditions he shoots in, at his range would not push him subsonic.
At the very least he is on the border with little to no margin. Come on, don't gloss over the facts and ignore real world conditions. </span>

Just trying to keep it simple. You lost only 5 percent at the muzzle as well. If you like it short, don't sweat the little stuff. I just build a 20" .260 and it looses 120fps from my 24" with the same bullet/load or just 79fps at 1000.

<span style="color: #FF0000">You are making a lot of assumptions. </span>

Hope that helps,

JamieD
</div></div>

Read this
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2189350&gonew=1#UNREAD
Maybe buy his book and read it as well?

 

[JamieD]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Not many assumptions - just ran the numbers using the two different muzzle velocities as I think 150fps (my assumption) will be the most he will loose going from 24" to 20". I don't think at the distances he posted he has to worry about subsonic. I've spent a fair amount of time with a .308 at 24" hence the 2900FPS with the 155 A-max. I have also built two .260's with the same reamer and Kreiger 1-8 barrels and used the numbers for them as well. One is 24" the other 20". It lost 120fps. The rest was using a ballistic program.

Most important is for him to get a rifle and start shooting and enjoying the sport.

JamieD

______________________________
Jamie Dodson
Wolf Precision
814-262-7994

 

[BP_Shooter]

Re: .308 best barrel length

I don't if you've seen this article. Its older but still good

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

 

[AUJohn]

Re: .308 best barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamieD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not many assumptions - just ran the numbers using the two different muzzle velocities as I think 150fps (my assumption) will be the most he will loose going from 24" to 20". I don't think at the distances he posted he has to worry about subsonic.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Me either, notice I had said so.
The issue is "Now you cut it back to 20" and loose 150FPS at the muzzle, your 1000 yard speed is 1188."
Did you read the post I linked to?
Let's say he IS getting the same speed you posted, He has a margin of 30FPS @40C. That means he will be splitting groups. Bad news for accuracy. Do you not see any problem with having such a low margin? How much are you happy with? 50fps? 80? What load processes do you use to keep within that range? Does he do the same? What is the SD on the loads you use?
It really might be time for you to get that book and read it.</span>

I've spent a fair amount of time with a .308 at 24" hence the 2900FPS with the 155 A-max. I have also built two .260's with the same reamer and Kreiger 1-8 barrels and used the numbers for them as well. One is 24" the other 20". It lost 120fps. The rest was using a ballistic program.
<span style="color: #FF0000">What is your standard of accuracy at 1k? How often do you shoot that far?
It's really important to understand what we are talking about here and why it matters.
</span>

Most important is for him to get a rifle and start shooting and enjoying the sport.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I don't think we should distract from the issue here. It's really important to understand this and not post content which is not at all accurate even if we are trying to help</span>JamieD


</div></div>

 

[AUJohn]

Re: .308 best barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bp_shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't if you've seen this article. Its older but still good

</div></div>

Yes, most have and it's one of the sources guys who don't understand the subject use to support the current short barrel fashion.
Can you not see any issues with it?
Or why it does not apply to everything?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Keep cutting it until its long enough.

 

[JamieD]

Re: .308 best barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamieD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not many assumptions - just ran the numbers using the two different muzzle velocities as I think 150fps (my assumption) will be the most he will loose going from 24" to 20". I don't think at the distances he posted he has to worry about subsonic.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Me either, notice I had said so.
The issue is "Now you cut it back to 20" and loose 150FPS at the muzzle, your 1000 yard speed is 1188."
Did you read the post I linked to?
Let's say he IS getting the same speed you posted, He has a margin of 30FPS @40C. That means he will be splitting groups. Bad news for accuracy. Do you not see any problem with having such a low margin? How much are you happy with? 50fps? 80? What load processes do you use to keep within that range? Does he do the same? What is the SD on the loads you use?
It really might be time for you to get that book and read it.</span>

I've spent a fair amount of time with a .308 at 24" hence the 2900FPS with the 155 A-max. I have also built two .260's with the same reamer and Kreiger 1-8 barrels and used the numbers for them as well. One is 24" the other 20". It lost 120fps. The rest was using a ballistic program.
<span style="color: #FF0000">What is your standard of accuracy at 1k? How often do you shoot that far?
It's really important to understand what we are talking about here and why it matters.
</span>

Most important is for him to get a rifle and start shooting and enjoying the sport.
<span style="color: #FF0000">I don't think we should distract from the issue here. It's really important to understand this and not post content which is not at all accurate even if we are trying to help</span>JamieD


</div></div> </div></div>

That's twice now,

In both of my posts you seem to like to ask a lot of questions and criticize but haven't provided the OP with many answers yourself. These are my opinions based on real world experiences! Why don't you either post something to help the OP based on your own experiences or just go back to reading your books!

TonyAngel - Good luck and keep us updated!


JamieD

______________________________
Jamie Dodson
Wolf Precision
814-262-7994

 

[Katahdin]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Maybe I can help a little. I have two .308 rifles with the following specs.

R700 PSS barrel 1:12 cut to 20" using FGMM 168gr 10-shot avg 2503fps

R700 24" SS Lilja 1:10 barrel using FGMM 168gr (same lot#) 10-shot avg 2620fps

So as you can see using FGMM there is about 117fps difference between the two. I like the 24" if I want to shoot past 600yds, but if you're only shooting to 600 then the 20" will get you there all day. I have also shot the 20" gun to 800yds with no problem hitting steel targets, so I think you're good to go no matter what barrel length you choose.

 

[Cegorach]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Mess around with a ballistic calculator. See what you are actually gaining or loosing with different barrel lengths/velocity. Look at your load of choice, find out how far it will stay super sonic, how much it will drift at different intervals. Then look at the type of shooting you are doing and choose a length that gives you what you need to succeed.

 

[AUJohn]

Re: .308 best barrel length

<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/wink.gif[/img]</span>

These are my opinions based on real world experiences!
<span style="color: #FF0000">Which is why I was trying to find out, just what your experiences were

</span>

Why don't you either post something to help the OP
<span style="color: #FF0000">Did it before you entered into this.</span>

based on your own experiences
<span style="color: #FF0000">Yes AND real world shooting at 1K with a .308. What about you? I backed up what I said. </span>

or just go back to reading your books!
<span style="color: #FF0000">I would have liked you to learn something. You lack knowledge on the subject.
Either through experience, ignorance or other issues.
I was trying to point you in the right direction by asking questions and giving input. Trying to get you to think about what you were saying. I backed it up with *FACTS*.
Either you do not shoot to 1K with a .308 or similar or have a very low standard of accuracy.
I backed up what I said, I showed what you were saying was bad news and why.
Don't get upset, learn. </span>
JamieD

Edited to add colour.

 

[Chiller]

Re: .308 best barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you thinking about adding a suppressor to it in the future.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of short barrels mainly because of velocity. We all know you can reach 1000y with a short barrel but with not much punch IMO.

I would do about 24" maybe 22 if adding a can, but probably 24".

R. </div></div>

20" and 2690fps....not seeing a problem yet?

 

[JamieD]

Re: .308 best barrel length

I'm not hi-jacking another person's thread to argue with an idiot or to have to explain my qualifications to offer advice.

Again Tonyangel - sorry about the hi-jack. Good luck and post what you decide to do and the results get.

JamieD

______________________________
Jamie Dodson
Wolf Precision
814-262-7994

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Thanks for all of the info guys. Katadihn's post of the velocity comparison between the 20" and 24" barrels using the same lot of ammunition kind of opened my eyes and confirmed what I suspected. Four inches is going to net me about 100fps, which to my way of thinking means that I'll be able to burn around 2gr less powder with the 24" barrel to get to a specific velocity. Well, it's working that way with RL15 anyway.

As things stand now, I'm leaning toward going with 22". Sort of splitting the baby. I don't mind having to go an extra grain of powder to make up the difference in velocity.

A friend of mine just had a rifle built using the same barrel that I am getting and his was chambered by the same guy that is going to be doing mine. I'm going to try to chrony his rifle with my loads this weekend and see if I can deduce or extrapolate anything from the results. I should have done this already, but I just bought a chrony and it just came in yesterday.

My goal is to be between 2500 and 2600fps with a 168gr bullet. My inexperienced figuring tells me that it should be a good place to be as a compromise between wear and tear on the barrel/throat and my suck ass wind reading skills, since 600 yards is all I'll ever have access to 99.9% of the time. The vast majority of my shooting is done at 300 yards and closer.

 

[bmt]

Re: .308 best barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys, I think I may have screwed up my barrel or there is an excess of copper build up someplace or something. In any case, I'm tired of dealing with it. I just ordered a barrel from Krieger. It's going to be 26" long, so I can go up to 25" long on it, once all is said and done.

I really like my 20". It's quite handy, but don't like the sacrifice in velocity that comes with such a short barrel. The longest that I'm going to be shooting is 600 yards. My dilemma is that I don't know what barrel length to go with. My first impulse was to go with 22". Will I gain much by going to 24 or 25"? For that matter, will going to 22" get me much? </div></div>

I went 23 inches on mine.

No difference in trajectory with 175 SMK factory ammo ballistic charts to 600.

The more I shoot, the more I realize that marksman ship is more important than velocity (within the parameters of shooting a 308 with a 20-24 inch tube)

BMT

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: .308 best barrel length

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My goal is to be between 2500 and 2600fps with a 168gr bullet. My inexperienced figuring tells me that it should be a good place to be as a compromise between wear and tear on the barrel/throat and my suck ass wind reading skills, since 600 yards is all I'll ever have access to 99.9% of the time. The vast majority of my shooting is done at 300 yards and closer. </div></div>

If you have a 308 boltface, and are getting a new barrel, why not get a 7-08 or a 6.5 Creedmoor?

Either caliber is relatively easy on barrels at the conservative velocities you are speaking of, will get there with less powder, and will shoot with 1/2-1/3 the wind deflection of a 168 out of a 308.

 

[Top Cat]

Re: .308 best barrel length

While you are thinking all this over, get some Montana Extreme and clean your barrel out and see if the accuracy returns.

TC

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: .308 best barrel length

^^^
Yup!

 

[BP_Shooter]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Never said it applies to everything?
Seems to me you just like to bash everyone else's advice.
Why not respond directly to the person asking the question with your wisdom.
Also you might want to contact Tactical Operations Inc and advise them where they screwed up.

 

[Jedi5150]

Re: .308 best barrel length

I love the 20" barrel on my new XCR Compact but I'm a novice long distance shooter. If I were to rebarrel it in the future I may actually go with an 18", or possibly even shorter. I simply don't have enough access to long distance shooting ranges.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Short barrels are the rage at this time. The guys with M4 type AR's are complaining about weight and length and going to 10" SBR's and so on.
For shooting the longer the barrel the less recoil, noise and blast.
For carrying and shooting out of a truck, which many seem to do, short is easy.
Over 27" gains about nothing on a .308.
Un suppressed barrels on my .308's are 25-27" for long range prone shooting.
30-32" on the 6.5x284's
I also do not care for muzzlebreaks at all. I do better with more barrel.
To each his own.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: .308 best barrel length

Just an update guys. I got the Krieger barrel and had it cut to 22". It shoots nicely, cleans up with two patches and as a result of the two extra inches and tighter chamber am getting 100 fps more than i did with my stock 20" barrel. I'm happy with it. My next project is going to be to get this LTR barrel that I have cut to 16" just to have a handy up close package. I just need to find a good deal on a used action.