.308 bullet for long range

eleaf

eleaf

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Oct 12, 2009
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The Bluegrass
www.puregrowthorganics.com
#1
I'm pretty sure that I'll be taking a PR course at Rifles Only this year, and need some suggestions on what bullet to use. I generally use 168 grain A-Max bullets, but have read that they are not great at distance. I generally prefer Hornady as they have performed consistently the best in my rifle.

Should I be looking heavier, as in 175 grain A-Max? Or lighter as in 155 grain A-Max (which I have read does pretty well at distance). How about going as light as the 110 grain V-Max?

Thanks
 
#2
Re: .308 bullet for long range

Your asking about the 308 Winchester I'm guessing.
.308 is a calibre.
It would help to know the weapon type and barrel twist rate.
All my Long range guns are 1 in 10's except for a GAP rifle and it's a 1 in 11.25.
I use 175 SMK's in both and Berger 185's in my 11.25 when the X count could be the diference in a win or lost. If your not shooting for score the 155 palma and any of the good 175's are great choises. I have not shot the new SMK palma so I can only state I hear good things about them. The Lapua Scenars are some of the best.
If your shooting some thing bigger like WSM or SAUM then look to the 208's or 210's. Donald
 
#3
Re: .308 bullet for long range

Yes. .308 Win.

I have a Remington 700P LTR with a 20" barrel 1:12 twist.

I don't think I'll be shooting for score short of in-class competitions of some sort which I don't know if RO does or not.

I've found that out to 300 yards, my rifle likes the Hornady TAP 168 grain A-Max best. But the 155 grain does about as well, and from what I've read is a pretty good 1000 yard bullet.
 
#4
Re: .308 bullet for long range

If you are only shooting out to distances of 600yds or so, the 168gr loads will do fine but they won't hold up to 1,000yd shooting very well.

After that, I'd go for the 178gr A-Max if you prefer Hornady offerings.

For the best performance with a 1:12 twist, 20" tube...I'd probably opt for the 155gr Scenars!
 
#7
Re: .308 bullet for long range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mavrick10_2000</div><div class="ubbcode-body">155 Lapua Scenars
155 Amax
175 SMK
178 Amax

Any of them will do what you want in .308. </div></div>

Excellent. Now to develop a load that the gun likes!
 
#8
Re: .308 bullet for long range

I'm in the same position as you.

I've been reading that the 155g Scenars don't to their best out of 20" barrels. The velocity isn't high enough.

My plan is to try the 175 SMKs and Varget powder first.
 
#11
Re: .308 bullet for long range

check out the reloading forum ... some guys getting interesting results with 208g rounds at 2650 to 2700 fps running RE17 powder. Testing / work up some loads / find your rifles sweet spot
 
#12
Re: .308 bullet for long range

I was shooting the 168 to 300 and 600yds and the 175 to a 1000yds. I have recently decided just to use 175 for everything. The heavier bullets just give better results at the longer distances.
 
#13
Re: .308 bullet for long range

Well, I used to think the 175 SMKs where the best choice, until trying some Lapua Scenar 155s, with a BC of .508, as well as the Berger 155 VLDs (BC= .439). If you get your barrel to like a load for one of these bullets, I am convinced they outperform the 175s in just about every way. Your 11.25 twist barrel may like the 155s. The Bergers and Scenars arent cheap, but what bullet is these days.....

Kirk R
 
#14
Re: .308 bullet for long range

I shot F-class in Capitan New Mexico for the first time this last summer and shot against a guy using 185 Bergers in a 12 twist Krieger that ran neck and neck with my .284 Win. using 168 Berger VLDS. I think his barrel length was somewhere around 26 to 28 inchs though. We tied for the win I shot a 420-8X and he shot a 420-10X.
 
#16
Re: .308 bullet for long range

I've been using 208's for a little while now, and gotten pretty good results with RL17, however it's an acquired taste, it's not for everyone. IMO they are more difficult to shoot well due to the significant increase in recoil. I'm dropping down to 175 SMK's and Varget for some testing. I'll have my bullets next week. I want a magazine length round that I can do everything with.

For the OP's purposes, sounds like you may want to try out the 178amax. Good BC, it's pretty much right there with the SMk's, and they're a good price compared to the 155 Scenars, and Berger brands. The expensive brands are expensive for a reason, it all comes down to how far are you wanting to push the envelope.

Branden
 
#21
Re: .308 bullet for long range

I thought the 168 A-MAX does well at long distance? I know the 168 SMK does not do well past 800. I never shot the 168's A-MAX personally, wanted to try them but I couldn't find any.
 
#22
Re: .308 bullet for long range

Shoot the heaviet bullet that stabilizes well in your rifle. That might mean the 175 SMK, and if so, then jump it .010 from the mag and try as close to 45.0 Varget as works within pressure limits. But, if your rifle shoots the 155 Scenars well, meaning that it's a tight bore, then try them with RE15. They will do fine out of a short barrel. If all else fails, pick up a case of 175gr SMK Match ammo, take it to RO, and plan to shoot it all.
 
#23
Re: .308 bullet for long range

I still dont know why someone would pick the 175SMK over the 155 Scenar. It does everything the 175 can do but at much faster speeds. I gave up on SMK's when I realized how well the Scenars perfrom out to 1K.
 
#24
Re: .308 bullet for long range

168 smk no good past 800 yds? what causes this, and is there the same problem with the 167 scenars? I hope not because I have about 500 of these, but oh well after reading more I will be switching to the 155 scenars after these are shot up.
 
#25
Re: .308 bullet for long range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I still dont know why someone would pick the 175SMK over the 155 Scenar. It does everything the 175 can do but at much faster speeds. I gave up on SMK's when I realized how well the Scenars perfrom out to 1K. </div></div>

It could be for any number of reasons. My 700P with it's long factory throat just doesn't shoot Scenars well at mag length. Flatter doesn't matter if I can't hit the target. At Midsouth Scenars are $42/100, and Matchkings are $29/100. I tend to have a fixed budget for shooting, so I can put more rounds downrange with Sierra's than Lapua's, I just have to read the wind better. Also, despite the opinions of others, I like to use one bullet for everything, and 175SMK's have performed perfectly on deer for me, but I've read that Scenars have a thicker jacket and don't mushroom as well. I buy Bergers for my KMW .260, but just haven't seen enough benefit to shoot premium bullets in my factory .308, even though I have tried them.

I did buy a box of Sierra Palma 2156's, and my rifle liked them better than Scenars, so I just got 500 more to give it a better evaluation.
 
#26
Re: .308 bullet for long range

The 168SMK's can be shot past 800 yards. We have found that at sea level (actually 400' ASL) 168gr Federal Gold Metal Match will stay stable at 900 yards from a 20" and 26" factor barrel. After 900 they go sideways, but are still reasonably accurate (just not as good as 175's or 155 Scenars).

I don't have any input on the 167 Scenars, but if the BC is higher than the 168SMK you should be fine.

I still have a mess of Nosler 168gr CC's because the majority of my shooting is under 800 yards. However I have seen that in my rifle even at short range the 175SMK is more accurate. At very close range (100 yards) the 155's don't seem to stabilize quick enough and will produce larger groups. They are still sub-MOA usually, but they don't clean a dot drill like the 175's will.

I like the 175SMK as a good all around bullet. I will probably cease buying 168's if we switch to Hornady TAP as our duty load.
 
#28
Re: .308 bullet for long range

Since you are asking this question about a rifles only course... I wonder what lowlight or jacob would answer?

I shoot 175SMK's... and I intend to use them when I go to rifles only later this year... but I would be interested to hear what they'd recommend.
 
#29
Re: .308 bullet for long range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since you are asking this question about a rifles only course... I wonder what lowlight or jacob would answer?

I shoot 175SMK's... and I intend to use them when I go to rifles only later this year... but I would be interested to hear what they'd recommend. </div></div>

Why the heck didn't I think of that? Go to the source . . . duh!
 
#31
Re: .308 bullet for long range

i love the 155 Scenars, i used to shoot only the 175 SMKs and given the fact that the 155s have a better BC and you can push them a hell of alot faster is a no brainer for me.
 
#32
Re: .308 bullet for long range

Scenars like speed. I've made them work at 2775fps out of an 18" bbl, but they're happier at 2950.

168's and 175's can perform well at very low speeds, like 2400fps, where nobody shoots them.
 
#33
Re: .308 bullet for long range

I dunno Graham, last time i went to 600yds. I was shooting 168mk at 2450 cus thats the most acurate load I've found for my rifle. Hit the steel most evey time. Only problem, 20.5 moa come ups.
 
#34
Re: .308 bullet for long range

I did't realize the 155 Scenars had such a high bc. I looked at them compared to the 175 SMK and there actually longer than the 175s look like something I might have try especialy since I have tight bore 5c barrel.
 
#35
Re: .308 bullet for long range

Question why wouldn't the 168amax or 168 berger vld shoot out to 1000? They both have a higher bc then the 155 amax smk and berger bullets and suspect about the same ase the 175smk ( don't think they are really .505 bc)the bc on the amx and berger 168 are .475.
 
#37
Re: .308 bullet for long range

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joe M</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the 168 A-MAX does well at long distance? I know the 168 SMK does not do well past 800. I never shot the 168's A-MAX personally, wanted to try them but I couldn't find any. </div></div>

You're right. The 168 SMK has major issues, the 168 Amax doesn't. The discussion history on 168's was

"168 SMK's are subsonic and tumble by 1000"

which turned into

"168 SMK's don't shoot well at long range"

which turned into

"168's don't shoot well at long distance"

which is now

"168's shouldn't be shot past 600y, but up to that point they're great"

In reality it's the 168 SMK and the boat tail design that has caused issues and the 168 Amax is much more reliable.

If it were me I'd be going with the 178 Amax and RL15 or the 175 SMK and RL 15.

For a class that's not a competition, I'd take the Hornady's over the Sierra's because of the sizable price difference when I'm bringing 500 rounds of ammo to a class with me.
 
#38
Re: .308 bullet for long range

for what its worth to the OP, the 155 scenar load i am running is moving along right at about 2850ish out of my 19 inch barrel. They all end up in one hole @ 100yds, 200 they open up a little bit to probably an inch edge to edge group, but at distance they are amazing.
 
#39
Re: .308 bullet for long range

My experience with the Lapua Scenar bullets, regardless of caliber, is that they like a tight bore. I've never had favorable results with the 155 in a high mileage barrel or the 105 in a .237 bore barrel. That being said, if you have a tight bore rifle, it will be a hammer with the Lapua projectiles.

I think the 175s are a great bullet. They have always seemed fairly forgiving on loads, have a real decent BC, and are usually available.

My vote goes to the 175s with Varget.
 
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