.308 Elk Bullet Performance

[03-MM]

I am hand loading for a .308. I have many Barnes TTSX bullets 150g, 165g, 168g, and 180g. I know that Barnes claims the minimum velocity on impact to expand is 1,500fps for the 168g. In my opinion anything under 150g for elk is out of the question I do not want to put "fireball" loads in my rifle. If their claim about 1,500 fps for the 168g is actually true then that most definitely extends the capable range to ethically shoot at game. What i want to discuss is if it would be better suited to pair a bonded bullet with the 308 for large game over the copper bullets and reserve the copper bullets for magnum rifles?
I know people will say it depends on variables so for discussions sake lets assume the following: Bull Elk 450yrd shot what would be a more forgiving bullet choice? My 168g TTSX are getting about 2615 muzzle vel. with 22" barrel.

 

[wvfarrier]

That gives you about 2500ft lbs at the muzzle. Minimum recommended (on impact) is 1000ft lbs, however, a passel of them have been killed with 357 mag, 45 colt amd 44 mag. Most of which are well under 1000ft lbs.

Now personally I would prefer a spitzer in the 180 grain range. I have had really good results with the 180 grain norma bondstrike on bear and deer. Sadly no elk here to test them on

 

[kyotekiller25]

I'll just be the guy to say 308s aren't really elk rifles, but that's just my opinion after seeing over 250 elk killed in 25 years. 7mm/30/33 Mags are elk rifles. Sure a 308 will kill elk, but you are limited to about 500-600 yard range at most. If you're ok with that, then go for it.

You also don't need monos to kill any NA game. They don't do nearly as much damage as lead bullets. I think you'd be better off with a 165g AB or 168g NBT for elk honestly. They'll penetrate more than enough for elk at those low speeds, and they'll transfer a lot more shock throughout with the lighter constructed bullet at lower speeds and longer range. Monos at long range don't transfer enough shock, nor leave a big enough hole since they're such a tough bullet. I'd hate to see what the expansion of a Barnes bullet is at 1500fps, a 308 bullet hole is all...

Save the monos for African dangerous game.

 

[RegionRat]

What i want to discuss is if it would be better suited to pair a bonded bullet with the 308 for large game over the copper bullets and reserve the copper bullets for magnum rifles?
I know people will say it depends on variables so for discussions sake lets assume the following: Bull Elk 450yrd shot what would be a more forgiving bullet choice? My 168g TTSX are getting about 2615 muzzle vel. with 22" barrel.

I'm not sure if we all have the same understanding of "forgiving bullet"... for example if you mean the range is suddenly very much less than your 450 yards? or if you mean you miss the kill zone?

At 450 yards, you have just enough for the manufacturer's demands, you are still doing about 1913 fps with 1365 ft*lbs. I have not seen a TTSX from a 308 WIN do anything unexpected at point blank either, so if you mean you are suddenly up close then no worries.

If what you mean is how much terminal effect there is with a different bullet versus a TTSX, then the thread will go long with all sorts of opinion and anecdotes about everyone's favorite. But since you asked....

If you gut enough elk shot with the TTSX at 450 yards from a 308, you will find less internal damage than when that same bullet is launched from a 300 mag. Velocity matters when it comes to the TTSX and so does placement.

When traditional cup-core bullets are studied in the same context, we will see similar trends, i.e., the 308 Win is enough at 450 when well placed, but just barely.

As often as not, the choice of the specific bullet between TTSX or one of the popular hunting bullets, will boil down to the one you like and will practice with the most. If picking a bullet means you don't practice because they are expensive and hard to find, then that is a good reason to go with one you can get and practice with more. When properly placed with enough velocity, they are all about the same.

When all is said and done, there isn't just one factor that simplifies these complex trades, but shot placement will top my list, ... and so getting and shooting enough bullets to keep your hit within a dinner plate is affected by that bullet cost/availability more than the slight differences in terminal performance. Pick the one you will not run out of in October.... and go get good with it. YMMV

 

[supercorndogs]

What do you mean by "more forgiving"? Hit them in the vitals or don't. You don't need bonded bullets for elk with a 308. I feel better with a partition bullet if I am shooting elk with a fast 6mm. The main problem I would worry about there is bullet failure due to impact velocity.

I like 168s and 180s both in 30 cal. You can get a longer PBR zero with the 168s.

 

[david walter]

Or, launch a 155 Scenar over 45.2 - 45.5 grains of Varget and anything under 600 yards should be coming home with you.

On 24hourcampfire, there’s a thread on killing deer up to elk with this combo.

Accuracy beats power most of the time, at least in my experience.

That load shoots well in just about everything.

 

[zeroz]

Ive killed a bunch of elk with Barnes bullets. 127's in 260 rem and 6.5 Grendel (gasp!!) and the 168's in 308 and '06. Keep them above 1800 and the energy at 900 lbs or so and you have enough ass to break bones, get through vitals and in all but 2 cases in dozens of elk, pass through. Several DRT and not one lost yet. After having cup and core bullets come apart on me, the SST's specifically, and spatter lead through meat I switched to barnes. I haven't been disappointed. I did try sierras 140 game changer last year in a 260 and it killed everything, that said I found lots of differing pieces of bullets spattered around in meat. Shots were from 20 yards at a bull to 450 or so on a cow and then lots of smaller critters. Needless to say Im switching back to barnes this year. Lots of people will tell you you need more shock, bigger guns, etc. After elk with a Grendel as well as with arrows that have 50lbs of energy, I definitely take it with a grain of salt. Bottom line is shot placement is king. It was mentioned above, and I agree that whatever gun/bullet combo you'll shoot the most and most proficiently with, will be YOUR best elk gun. I guess if you cant get inside of 500 yards on elk and want to take shit shots, you might need a magnum with heavies in it. Some elk are tough as hell and some give up more easily. I have seen an elk soak up two lung shots from a 300 Weatherby and still make it a ways before piling up and Ive also send them drop from a Grendel. I really like exit holes for the tough elk so I can find them in the thick stuff and barnes typically provide that.

 

[zeroz]

Duplicate post.

 

[hero's machine]

I've killed 30 some odd elk now. They're not hard to kill. Feed a 308 a cup/core and you'll be able to pick it up and eat it.......a lot farther away than you will believe.

 

[RTH1800]

I have shot only 22 bull elk. Nothing like some of the posters. Many were very large bulls. Also shot some elk like critters in Asia and South America. Mostly used various large 7MM cartridges. I did shoot a couple with the .270 Win and 130 Barnes TS. With my limited experience the .270 was not such a sudden killer. All worked, never lost one. I would suspect the .308 to behave more like a 270 than a 7 Mag. Not my first choice in elk rifles. Not bad in open country but could be trouble in thick cover or public land where others might claim an elk. It does happen,

 

[Pharmseller]

Opinions are like…well, you know.



I hunt with a 7mm-08 and 150 gr ELDX.

Shoot a bull where you need to and he‘ll die right quick.

Just my opinion, based on experience.




P

 

[rdinak]

If you have seen what a 120 grain tsx will do out of a 7MM-08, you would have confidence in your 168 TTSX out of a .308.

Go fourth and slay.

 

[Capri_Man]

Even the 180gr TTSX should be above the 1500fps minum for expansion at 450yds.

I have no experience hunting elk, but if I ever get the chance I plan on using the 168gr TTSX in the 30-06.

 

[zeroz]

Even the 180gr TTSX should be above the 1500fps minum for expansion at 450yds.

I have no experience hunting elk, but if I ever get the chance I plan on using the 168gr TTSX in the 30-06.

It has been nothing but phenomenal out to 518 and I have no doubt it would continue to do real well on out to 650 or so.

 

[FNG1001]

kind of shocked the Barnes LRX hasnt been mentioned.

 

[zeroz]

kind of shocked the Barnes LRX hasnt been mentioned.

Shocked, or triple shocked?

 

[david walter]

I see what you did there.

Any Berger shooters in the 7-08?

Shocked, or triple shocked?

 

[Ronws]

I have not yet shot an elk but I once stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

I have also heard it said that we tend to over-estimate the toughness of hide.

I have also heard that the ubiquitous cup-and-core doesn't always bring down an elk. That a copper monolithic is better, primarily because it is like to cause an exit wound. The advantages of that are blood trail for tracking and also, deflation of the cavity to aid in lung collapse. But the copper has limits. It is better at closer ranges.

I have also seen guys follow a good blood trail for quite a ways and not always immediately find the game.

I think the reason I would prefer my 7 PRC for elk over one of my .308s (yes, I have more than one,) is the higher BC. I am still pushing .308 mass but a little faster and flatter.

On a box of Hornady Precision Hunter 175 gr ELD-X, it shows a fully mushroomed crushing machine at 1800 fps. I had emailed Hornady about a technical detail and they replied that the minimum velocity for petal to occur is 1600 fps.

Colorado says you need a minimum of 1200 ft-lbs for an elk. For .308 165 gr, you are skirting the edge at 525 yards. 168 gr at maybe 2800 fps might buy you 50 yards more.

Usually, I go by impact velocity. You can have a high energy bullet that does not open enough and pencils through.

I could be wrong but some guys prefer magnums (both standard and magnum action) because of the better performance in the wind. Ryan Cleckner carried a .300 WM in the GWOT because it cut through the wind better than the 7.62x51 mm NATO. Not because of being a heavier bullet but better flight performance. The job was to get a round somewhere in the IPSC, not trying to pierce ear lobes.

To me, I am also trying to get a round in a zone, though somewhat smaller. And my intention is not that of a military sniper but that of a hunter bringing down game with a minimum of suffering.

So, really the best round is the one that you are really good with. However, your distance for ethical energy or impact velocity is going to require paying attention to that range. And if you cannot get close enough for the shot, don't take the shot.