308 loads for PRS

[DIYguy]

Several questions for the group
Been loading 6.5CM and have my loads pretty well dialed in but adding 308 to the list. Have an ACC custom 308 rifle by MDT on order and approaching week seven of waiting. While waiting for the rifle working on getting my preparations out of the way. New Redding comp dies, upgraded the single stage to a Forster CoAx, Lapua brass, new annealing machine, etc.
My normal club I regularly shot at goes out to 200m but I've been accepted to a club that goes out to 1,000y. Buddy that shoots at 1,000 gave me his recipe using ELD-Match 208gr (G7 BC= 348) Bit much for the majority of 200m shooting and hopefully PRS this summer so looking at other loads.

I've always been a fan of the ELD-M bullets and looking at 168gr and 178, the 178 have slightly better BC.. For the 208gr have RL-17 but looking to load AR-Comp for the other weights as I have 12# on the shelf. Alliant lists 40.6 of AR-Comp behind 178gr of BTHP but nothing for the ELD-M, I would ASSUME pretty much the same load. BTHP doesn't even list the G7 but easlily available in factory rounds to play with.

The MDT is a 26" barrel with 1:10. Anyone else have their recommendations for AR-Comp, PRS loads and general bang-um loads for the 200m?

 

[Lindley Machine]

Several questions for the group
Been loading 6.5CM and have my loads pretty well dialed in but adding 308 to the list. Have an ACC custom 308 rifle by MDT on order and approaching week seven of waiting. While waiting for the rifle working on getting my preparations out of the way. New Redding comp dies, upgraded the single stage to a Forster CoAx, Lapua brass, new annealing machine, etc.
My normal club I regularly shot at goes out to 200m but I've been accepted to a club that goes out to 1,000y. Buddy that shoots at 1,000 gave me his recipe using ELD-Match 208gr (G7 BC= 348) Bit much for the majority of 200m shooting and hopefully PRS this summer so looking at other loads.

I've always been a fan of the ELD-M bullets and looking at 168gr and 178, the 178 have slightly better BC.. For the 208gr have RL-17 but looking to load AR-Comp for the other weights as I have 12# on the shelf. Alliant lists 40.6 of AR-Comp behind 178gr of BTHP but nothing for the ELD-M, I would ASSUME pretty much the same load. BTHP doesn't even list the G7 but easlily available in factory rounds to play with.

The MDT is a 26" barrel with 1:10. Anyone else have their recommendations for AR-Comp, PRS loads and general bang-um loads for the 200m?

I use 168gr eldx with 44.5 grs of varget, I do want to try the 178 eldx though.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

I had good luck with IMR4064 and 178 ELDMs in my 20 inch 308. I we t to the standard BTHP and the load was essentially the same. I think I went up .2gr because I was seating a smidge longer due to the lack of ballistic tip.

If you are going to mag feed out of an AICS mag, you may want to consider the standard BTHP. You can load it a little longer and still keep it within mag length. Just an idea.

My local range goes out to 890. Both the BTHP and the ELDm still hit steel at that range just fine. Went out to the desert and went to a bit over 1100, still fine. You'll be fine with either one

 

[DIYguy]

Interesting point regarding the length and tip on the ELD (no pun fun)
MDT AICS metal mags with binder plate @ 2.870
Looking into different metal mags for my 6.5 as the magazine is so short I'm over .040 of the lands. Pmag gen II but that's a different topic.

 

[cooper_257]

I have had great luck running Hornady 178 BTHP with Varget. It is a really easy bullet to get to shoot well. For PRS with a 308 in the Tac class I would give the Nosler 175 RDF a try.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

I have had great luck running Hornady 178 BTHP with Varget. It is a really easy bullet to get to shoot well. For PRS with a 308 in the Tac class I would give the Nosler 175 RDF a try.

The good luck I've had with sierras and hornadys has not extended to noslers, for whatever reason

 

[BILLLONGTHOOTH]

Following , getting into prs and wanna start in the tac class.

 

[Nebulous]

I'm new to reloading but i just went out and did my first ever ladder test and it just so happened to be with ar-comp and the 178 ELD-M. this was for a 20" 1-10. My rifle seemed to like the 40.2 and 40.4grain loads best giving me 2600 and 2635fps. I plan to explore this range a little more. I also have a box of 175 TMK to try out but havent loaded anything yet.
This rifle has shot very well with a whole bunch of different factory 168grain loads and the 178 ELD-X brought in a buck and a doe this season. My range is only just starting its first prs match this year so we will see when we get there.

 

[Nimothy]

I’m of the belief that 178eld-m aren’t the bullets for a mag fed rifle. They are VERY long and they aren’t going very fast with how deep you have to seat them. I would stick with 168’s whether it be hybrids, smk, hornady bthp, or eld’s I don’t think the higher bc does much for you when you’re 150-200 fps slower

 

[Nimothy]

I'm new to reloading but i just went out and did my first ever ladder test and it just so happened to be with ar-comp and the 178 ELD-M. this was for a 20" 1-10. My rifle seemed to like the 40.2 and 40.4grain loads best giving me 2600 and 2635fps. I plan to explore this range a little more. I also have a box of 175 TMK to try out but havent loaded anything yet.
This rifle has shot very well with a whole bunch of different factory 168grain loads and the 178 ELD-X brought in a buck and a doe this season. My range is only just starting its first prs match this year so we will see when we get there.

That’s very fast for 178 eld’s what was your oal?

 

[918v]

He’s prolly got a fast chronograph.

 

[BILLLONGTHOOTH]

So im kinda in the same boat would he safe to say to start out with the 168 weight class n see if i can make those bullets work or shoot a sample size from each 168, 175,178 considering tac division capps out at 178

 

[Doc68]

He’s prolly got a fast chronograph.

No shit, I barely get mid 2500’s out of a 20 inch tube.

 

[DIYguy]

Sierra 175 TMK is another bullet I'm considering also. I know a lot of people like Verget but it's been sort of hit or miss to find here for a while. I use the AR-Comp to load 75gr ELD-M in 223 and as mentioned have about 12# on the shelf. AR is supposed to be the Alliant version of Varget with a bit more temp stability which is important in Manysnowta

 

[cooper_257]

I run the 178 BTHP out of my GAP 10 with a 20" barrel at 2600 no problem with lake City brass and varget

 

[Nebulous]

That’s very fast for 178 eld’s what was your oal?

2.8in. This was my first time using a new magnetospeed sporter and have nothing to compare it against. I also shot some factory PPU 168 match which was giving me around 2600fps. Blackhills 168 match ~2630fps. Hornaday Precision Hunter 178 ELD-X ~2540fps.

 

[Nimothy]

2.8in. This was my first time using a new magnetospeed sporter and have nothing to compare it against. I also shot some factory PPU 168 match which was giving me around 2600fps. Blackhills 168 match ~2630fps. Hornaday Precision Hunter 178 ELD-X ~2540fps.

You shot it at distance? If those aren’t the crono reading it fast, that’s awesome!

 

[Nebulous]

I only had the chance to shoot at 100 that day. Those are all 5 shot averages collected with the xfr app.

 

[MarinePMI]

(cough) 2000MR...

 

[EN2722]

I started with the 178 ELD-M and continued to have problems with bullet seating depth and the bullets raking across the front of my AI mags. Switched to 178 BTHP and haven’t had problems sense. I’m running IMR4064 out of a 20“ tube getting just shy of 2600 FPS.

Also, the my bullet seating die crushed the top of the tip on the ELD-M’s often. I wasn’t excited about buying the ELD-M bullet seating stem from Hornady, so that pushed me to switch to the BTHP.

 

[rockin randy]

185 juggernaut w/ varget or imr4064 mag fed all day

 

[DIYguy]

Matt, good info, I understand what you mean. Had to confirm with MDT regarding the AICS mags and my rifle will have "with binder plate" so I 2.870 for max COAL.

Regarding loads with Varget, my local powder supplier is having issues getting Varget but I have 12# of AR-Comp on the shelf which is rated as equal to or slightly better than Varget, just by Alliant.

Another buddy recommend the 185 Juggernauts also.

 

[Conrad]

Back when I was shooting 308 out of a Desert tech 22” barrel I was seated out to 2.87 and this afforded more powder capacity. I was getting 2750 FPS with the following.

Lapua LRP Brass
178 ELDX @ 2.87” OAL
43.6 gr H4895

it was an absolute hammer and the accuracy node was over a grain wide.

 

[Jabot]

185 juggernaut 44.5 varget
Mag fed out of accu mag
Extremely accurate

 

[Jrb572]

Sierra 175 TMK is another bullet I'm considering also. I know a lot of people like Verget but it's been sort of hit or miss to find here for a while. I use the AR-Comp to load 75gr ELD-M in 223 and as mentioned have about 12# on the shelf. AR is supposed to be the Alliant version of Varget with a bit more temp stability which is important in Manysnowta

I use 8208XBR and 175 gr SMK. Switched when I could not get varget. I’ve shot it in extreme heat and cold. No issues

 

[Ryridesmotox]

I’m of the belief that 178eld-m aren’t the bullets for a mag fed rifle. They are VERY long and they aren’t going very fast with how deep you have to seat them. I would stick with 168’s whether it be hybrids, smk, hornady bthp, or eld’s I don’t think the higher bc does much for you when you’re 150-200 fps slower

I was like 2750 with mine. It wasn't a very accurate node at all though. I'm feeding out of a magpul AICS, can't remember what I was using as OAL as I switched to standard BTHP like a year ago. For the same reason I said in a reply earlier.

45.2 gr 4064 in jagemann brass with CCI primers. It was still under 2moa easy, but it was opening up primer pockets, and it was like half a cunt hair from the front of the mag. I got up to 46gr of 4064, but again, primer pockets didnt like it.

 

[DIYguy]

Ran into another argument regarding tip bullets and load length. My previous load crept up a few thousandth and I ended up with 2.847. They were too long for my 7.62 Gen3 mags so bought an AC mag to try. The AC allows longer loads but had two rounds that didn't feel right going into battery and when I checked them the tip was broken off. Might have been just a couple thousands longer yet but have never had a tip break, now I'm on my third.

 

[squib]

So im kinda in the same boat would he safe to say to start out with the 168 weight class n see if i can make those bullets work or shoot a sample size from each 168, 175,178 considering tac division capps out at 178

168grs are not suggested for ranges over 600yds . 175 and up is a better choice.

 

[squib]

My match load:
1:12 24" barrel
175gr SMK
44.5gr Varget
Lapua Brass
Fed primer
.020 jump
2700fps

 

[Matches Malone]

I started with the 178 ELD-M and continued to have problems with bullet seating depth and the bullets raking across the front of my AI mags. Switched to 178 BTHP and haven’t had problems sense. I’m running IMR4064 out of a 20“ tube getting just shy of 2600 FPS.

Also, the my bullet seating die crushed the top of the tip on the ELD-M’s often. I wasn’t excited about buying the ELD-M bullet seating stem from Hornady, so that pushed me to switch to the BTHP.

I load eld-m, and they fit in the mags. They do better with extra jump. Something about how the bearing surface is. Go buy or borrow some of the factory ammo, use that as a reference seating depth. Fine tune off that.

If you’re using a seating stem that’s not made for VLDs or Hornady’s eld seating stems, then you will have that problem with the tip. The other way of getting around it, especially if you’re using Lee dies, is drill the seating stem, or call them and you can order a bullet specific stem.

 

[308Gunner]

The 168 hybrids work well past 600 ?

 

[spife7980]

168grs are not suggested for ranges over 600yds . 175 and up is a better choice.

(That’s just the 168 smk with its steep boat tail angle)

 

[truck1]

175 SMKHPBT
LC brass
Varget 43.0 gr.
Fed Match Lg Rifle primers
Forster bushing comp neck sizing die
5R Rem 24" tube
Very happy with this load

 

[mojavejim]

Just an FYI, Alliant AR Comp has a lot faster burn rate than Varget or even IMR4064 . Closer to IMR8208 XRB BTW.

 

[truck1]

OK Mojavejim you've piqued my interest and upon further reading, does AR Comp perform as well in bolt guns as gas guns? Might have to get a pound and check it out. Like my Varget but sometimes I get MV variances of 50 FPS. Still super consistent on paper.

 

[glock63]

155 scenar pushed by 44.4 grains 8208 lit by a federal 210M primer in lapua brass. 2960 out of a 22 inch bartlein gain twist tube. SD 8.3

 

[mojavejim]

OK Mojavejim you've piqued my interest and upon further reading, does AR Comp perform as well in bolt guns as gas guns? Might have to get a pound and check it out. Like my Varget but sometimes I get MV variances of 50 FPS. Still super consistent on paper.

I haven't tried the AR comp powder for 308, I think it's a bit to fast for the 175-178 class bullets. I've had good #'s with Varget And IMR4064 but have issues with temp stability with the 4064. I've been trying to find a good substitute for Varget because it isn't available lately & I don't think it's going to get any better with the BR & GT craze

 

[Ryridesmotox]

I haven't tried the AR comp powder for 308, I think it's a bit to fast for the 175-178 class bullets. I've had good #'s with Varget And IMR4064 but have issues with temp stability with the 4064. I've been trying to find a good substitute for Varget because it isn't available lately & I don't think it's going to get any better with the BR & GT craze

How bad are your temp swings? For me, totally the opposite. I've shot in 100+ and in 40°. Velocities were pretty consistent. That's probably not a huge temp swing to some people though

 

[918v]

What’s your load with 4064? I’m my experience it’s plus/minus 20FPS over a 100 degree range.

I haven't tried the AR comp powder for 308, I think it's a bit to fast for the 175-178 class bullets. I've had good #'s with Varget And IMR4064 but have issues with temp stability with the 4064. I've been trying to find a good substitute for Varget because it isn't available lately & I don't think it's going to get any better with the BR & GT craze

 

[mojavejim]

From 30's to mid 70's so far with this lot. Load developed with 175's around 50* with 6-8 SD's, 75* has mid 20's SD. Load developed with Saterlee method. Varget load stays stable for me but not so much with the 4064. Could be the current 8LB jug just opened up, I have a go to practice load with 168 SMK's that I'm going to load with current lot and see how it compares to the old data. It's to bad because I get a lot of speed w/4064 with out pressure signs but I'll take slow & consistent over speed.

 

[mojavejim]

What’s your load with 4064? I’m my experience it’s plus/minus 20FPS over a 100 degree range.

43.1 with 175TMK about .025 off. Have seen 2720 avg @ 36* to 2808 avg @ 75*. Checked w/ Magnetospeed

 

[EN2722]

I load eld-m, and they fit in the mags. They do better with extra jump. Something about how the bearing surface is. Go buy or borrow some of the factory ammo, use that as a reference seating depth. Fine tune off that.

If you’re using a seating stem that’s not made for VLDs or Hornady’s eld seating stems, then you will have that problem with the tip. The other way of getting around it, especially if you’re using Lee dies, is drill the seating stem, or call them and you can order a bullet specific stem.

Thanks for the information. I also had similar results with the ELD-M’s liking more jump. I knew about the stem upgrade to allow eld bullets, however, I did not think to contact Lee and see if they had any options.

IMHO, I haven’t seen very much difference between the BTHP and the ELD-M besides 20-30 FPS lost. Normally, I can find Hornady 178 gr BTHP on sale which makes them come in a few cents cheaper. Maybe, if I run across ELD-M’s on sale I’ll start chucking them at steel again!

 

[EN2722]

43.1 with 175TMK about .025 off. Have seen 2720 avg @ 36* to 2808 avg @ 75*. Checked w/ Magnetospeed

I have also noticed some velocity difference however, living in southern california we do not have temp‘s that swing that much.

 

[918v]

43.1 with 175TMK about .025 off. Have seen 2720 avg @ 36* to 2808 avg @ 75*. Checked w/ Magnetospeed

What if you slow it down to 2600? It seems to be stable at 2600.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

I have also noticed some velocity difference however, living in southern california we do not have temp‘s that swing that much.

You near Pendleton at all? Do you ever go out to pala

 

[Matches Malone]

IMHO, I haven’t seen very much difference between the BTHP and the ELD-M besides 20-30 FPS lost. Normally, I can find Hornady 178 gr BTHP on sale which makes them come in a few cents cheaper. Maybe, if I run across ELD-M’s on sale I’ll start chucking them at steel again!

Just BC. If you like keeping things closer to center.

 

[EN2722]

You near Pendleton at all? Do you ever go out to pala

I am, currently I live in San Clemente. I’ve only shot a USPA match at Pala, but I’ve been looking at SDPRC matches.

 

[MarinePMI]

I am, currently I live in San Clemente. I’ve only shot a USPA match at Pala, but I’ve been looking at SDPRC matches.

We had one yesterday (it was pushed one weekend earlier due to some conflicts with a National level pistol tournament). Next match is on the 22nd of March as well/. Also, Camp Pendleton (if you have base access) is hosting a two day event (one day clinic, next day match) on the 14-15th of March. It is being run by the Santa Margarita Gun Club.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

We had one yesterday (it was pushed one weekend earlier due to some conflicts with a National level pistol tournament). Next match is on the 22nd of March as well/. Also, Camp Pendleton (if you have base access) is hosting a two day event (one day clinic, next day match) on the 14-15th of March. It is being run by the Santa Margarita Gun Club.

Interesting, what website is that info on? I'm near Temecula so it's not far for me.

I am, currently I live in San Clemente. I’ve only shot a USPA match at Pala, but I’ve been looking at SDPRC matches.

Yea I used to shoot every USPSA match there. But being as kids and wife are all consuming, I'm down to one a month. Between USPSA and PPC matches, I'd be gone every weekend and it wasn't exactly fair to the Mrs or the kids. Sure was fun burning 1k rounds a month just in pistol.

 

[MarinePMI]

Interesting, what website is that info on? I'm near Temecula so it's not far for me.



Yea I used to shoot every USPSA match there. But being as kids and wife are all consuming, I'm down to one a month. Between USPSA and PPC matches, I'd be gone every weekend and it wasn't exactly fair to the Mrs or the kids. Sure was fun burning 1k rounds a month just in pistol.

Pala Shooting Range

Shoot @NoLegs24 a PM with your e-mail addy and he'll add you to the DL for the SDPRC.