.308 OCW Test Help

parsky1

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Minuteman
Jul 15, 2014
37
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I'm getting ready to test out some loads for my custom LR-308

Components are Lapua Brass, BR-2 Primers, Varget, 178gr A-Max. Yeah its lapua brass through an autoloader, but winchester is too hard to find and lapua seems to have the best quality. It is still cheaper than factory ammo.

I was thinking the following for the OCW test. Is this too coarse or fine for an OCW test?

42.6gr
43gr
43.4gr
43.8gr
44.2gr
44.6gr
45gr
 
Thanks

I've read there is an accuracy node around 43gr, but I'm not sure if there is a higher charge weight node with a 178gr bullet or not? Anyone have any experience with this?
 
Thanks

I've read there is an accuracy node around 43gr, but I'm not sure if there is a higher charge weight node with a 178gr bullet or not? Anyone have any experience with this?

+1 on .3 grain increments

Based on your end charge you'll find another node somewhere in the 44's (44.2-44.5 i think).

Happy trigger pulling...
 
+1 on .3 grain increments

Based on your end charge you'll find another node somewhere in the 44's (44.2-44.5 i think).

Happy trigger pulling...

Based on that, I'm thinking I'm going to pull the 45.1gr charge. Seems pretty hot for 178gr bullet and lapua. Wondering if this is good or should I start at 42.4?

42.7
43
43.3
43.6
43.9
44.2
44.5
44.8
 
Based on that, I'm thinking I'm going to pull the 45.1gr charge. Seems pretty hot for 178gr bullet and lapua. Wondering if this is good or should I start at 42.4?

42.7
43
43.3
43.6
43.9
44.2
44.5
44.8

I prefer more data than less myself. I would make 42.4 and 45.1. I want to see where NODE begins and ends.

In theory, you could see 44.8 tail of higher node and 45.1 would/could confirm by shifting POI. My money is you do not see pressure signs at 44.8. If correct then, it would be good to see if there are any pressure signs at 45.1 For example, IF higher node is 44.5 and you have no pressure signs at 45.1 then you have a good safety net.

I am looking for confirmation when I perform LD.

Just some quick thoughts...

More info if you wish:
Check my post #21 http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/258954-help-me-build-30-06-load-rifle-new-precision-hand-loading.html#post3202319
 
Start at 42 and work up to 45 in .5 gr increments. You will be able to see your nodes then you can go back and fine tune it in smaller increments. Just my .02.

Actually I do agree with your .5 increments as this is how I would normally begin OCW LD with a combination I do not have much background on. In case of OP's components I did my homework some months back and obtained credible and consistent data that would make me go to .3 grain increments. I was very close to running same/similar LD using Varget until I just recently got my hands on a keg of 4064. Now I can leave all my Varget for my .223 rig.

Either way, .5 or .3 OP will obtain data needed to narrow in on nodes.

Safe shooting
 
Not entirely applicable to your situation since I'm assuming you'll want to load to mag length, but I have nearly all the same components as you, and providing this just as a reference point.

Lapua brass (necks turned to .0140), FGMM 210m, 178AMAX, 42.2gr Varget, loaded .020 off lands in my FN SPR to a COAL of 2.950. This load gives me consistent cloverleaf groups & single digit ES/SD w/ MV of 2,650.

One caveat I found while testing: I had better luck with 175smks at mag length vs the AMAX. However loading closer to the lands, the AMAX were more accurate.
 
Not entirely applicable to your situation since I'm assuming you'll want to load to mag length, but I have nearly all the same components as you, and providing this just as a reference point.

Lapua brass (necks turned to .0140), FGMM 210m, 178AMAX, 42.2gr Varget, loaded .020 off lands in my FN SPR to a COAL of 2.950. This load gives me consistent cloverleaf groups & single digit ES/SD w/ MV of 2,650.

One caveat I found while testing: I had better luck with 175smks at mag length vs the AMAX. However loading closer to the lands, the AMAX were more accurate.

Thanks for the info everyone. I wanted a compromise between a hunting and match bullet. A-max appeared to be the best for that. Hopefully it works out. I will need to load to mag length. I decided to not neck turn for a semi auto. Rather I'm body sizing with a redding body die first and then neck sizing with a lee collet die. Does the same, but the lee collet die does a better job than running an expander ball back through.
 
I went with the 178 match for accuracy and I would use the amax for soft targets. I found that 44.6 of varget was perfect for my savage 10. I loaded 5 of each at .1 grain increments (didn't want to have to do load development twice and I loaded to aics mag length.
I probably could have went over 44.6, but I have an 18" barrel so I was getting unburnt powder and a halt in velocity climb.
 
I'm getting ready to test out some loads for my custom LR-308

Components are Lapua Brass, BR-2 Primers, Varget, 178gr A-Max. Yeah its lapua brass through an autoloader, but winchester is too hard to find and lapua seems to have the best quality. It is still cheaper than factory ammo.

I was thinking the following for the OCW test. Is this too coarse or fine for an OCW test?

42.6gr
43gr
43.4gr
43.8gr
44.2gr
44.6gr
45gr

If you have not already read this check it out. Appears to be pretty much right up your ally.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...082-help-ocw-target-analysis.html#post3196913
 
So I loaded up 42.2, 42.6, 43.0, 43.4, 43.8, and 44.2 Loads were already starting to get compressed at 42.6 grains. I noticed that as my charges went up I had to adjust the micrometer on my seating die to compensate. I used a hornady bullet comparator to measure each. Given that, I tried to keep base to ogive within .002" for all loads. I held off on 44.6 because the loads were already so compressed. Hopefully this is all normal?
 
I held off on 44.6 because the loads were already so compressed. Hopefully this is all normal?

Shake your highest load very well (44.4 grains??) and listen/feel closely as you may not be compressed as you believe you are. I am not speaking specifically for Varget load but have been in similiar with 4064 (.308) , Retumbo and H1000 (.338LM). I thought same until I shook and noticed there was tiny movement.
 
Shake your highest load very well (44.4 grains??) and listen/feel closely as you may not be compressed as you believe you are. I am not speaking specifically for Varget load but have been in similiar with 4064 (.308) , Retumbo and H1000 (.338LM). I thought same until I shook and noticed there was tiny movement.

43.8 on up does not move at all. Lower charges have a tad bit of movement. I went ahead and loaded up 44.6 anyway. By the time I got to 44.6 I had adjusted the micrometer by 10 thou to keep a similar base to ogive measurement.
 
IMG_6940.jpg

Well there ya go. These shots are my first reloads ever made by me. Guess all the internet research and attention to detail is paying off. Two of those groups are better than what FGMM 175gr ever did in this gun. The best I could do was 1MOA on average with FGMM. I'm going to explore around 43.0gr. That was just about where I was seeing light compression of the loads when seating the bullet. This was shot off of bags made of T-shirts filled with rice. I ran Hoppes #9 through the gun followed by 2 dry patches and finally 1 oiled patch the night before shooting. There was very little wind this morning. Shot 4 fouling shots, ~2min between shots and then 15-20min between low-high, high-low, low-high. I thought I had a hang fire on my second shot, found out a round didn't chamber because the mag wasn't locked in all the way... idiot... ;)
 
Studying the target further I'm temped to play around 43.0gr. Maybe try 3 of 42.8, 42.9, 43.0, 43.1, 43.2? What do you guys think? I'm trying not to bias myself by the awesome group at 43.0. 42.6 and 43.8 were suggested in another load workup on here, but that person was loading longer than mag length.
 
Studying the target further I'm temped to play around 43.0gr. Maybe try 3 of 42.8, 42.9, 43.0, 43.1, 43.2? What do you guys think? I'm trying not to bias myself by the awesome group at 43.0. 42.6 and 43.8 were suggested in another load workup on here, but that person was loading longer than mag length.

Parsky1,

Based on your results 42.6, 43.0, 43.4 & 43.8 have similar POI's. I like to run OCW on one straight horizontal line as I have found multiple lines can shift POI.

Maybe consider 42.8, 43.2 & 43.6 which are in between your loads above. This should show which direction to then go to .1 increments followed by seating depth changes if applicable.

Just some quick thoughts after viewing your results.
 
Well I went 42.8g to 43.2g in 0.1g increments. The far right target is 43.0g sighters. Before I went out I did move POI up 1MOA on my scope. I'm not sure what to make of these groups. Could be me I suppose? I did chrono 3, 43.0g loads on another target and they were 2487, 2478, 2482... Rifle has an 18", 3 polygonal rifling, 1:11 twist barrel. I'm sort of wondering if I shouldn't be exploring 42.6 to 42.8g Untitled3.jpg
 
Well I just worked through all the stuff in quickload and have measured velocities and charge weights matching. An 18" barrel has a usable optimum barrel time of .989ms. Quickload suggests a 43g charge. A 43g charge was giving me a MV of about 2475fps and a 43.8g charge was giving me about 2500-2520. I saw a few people using 42.6g loads with 26" tubes on the internet. Those with a COAL of 2.850" appear to match up with an OBT node. I'm thinking I need to fine tune my process and return back to the range.
 
The goal is to find a charge where the group doesn't move around even if your powder charge isn't perfect. In your 0.1 string, the 43.0 group is wide because of wind (probably:) ). 42.8 looks great and 43.2 looks great. It appears that if you chose 43.0 and if your powder charge was anywhere between 42.8 and 43.2, the group would print in the same place. The problems are 42.9 and 43.1. If you have a node at 43.0, then 42.8 through 43.2 should all have the same point of impact and the group size should grow slightly as you move away from 43.0. 43.1 has vertical and 42.9 is too big. And neither of those make sense.

I would reload and reshoot that series.

Pay particular attention to your fundamentals - shoulder position, strong hand grip strength, strong hand thumb position and trigger finger position, trigger pull, and breathing. Make sure that the scope is pointing at the center of the target when the shot breaks. You said that you are using bags made from rice and tee shirts. Be sure that you also have and use a rear bag. The stock fore-end pays in the front bag - remove the front sling attachment. The butt stock lays on the rear bag. Squeeze the rear back harder to raise the buttstock and lower the point of aim.

Make and use wind flags - put three or four garden stakes or other sticks downrange, hang two feet of engineer tape off them. As the wind blows the tape will stream downwind. With no wind, the tape hangs straight down. Light wind the tape starts to stream out downwind. For a given wind speed the angle made by the stake and the tape will be the same. Shoot all your shots at the same angle. If the direction is changing, the tape may stream toward or away from you - this can be tricky but you are not in a hurry.

You want the absolute best possible performance from the gun -- like you were shooting in a warehouse without wind and off a machine rest.

By the way, you certainly could go down to 42.6 but if 43.0 is the center then 42.6 would be an unusually wide node.

One other idea. Just for the heck of it, weigh this brass. You said that it is Lapua. The old Lapua brass was the most consistent I ever saw. But the newer Lapua is not quite as good as the old stuff. It is possible (but unlikely) that 42.9 and 43.1 can be explained by inconsistent brass. My Lapua brass weighs about 71 to 72 grains per case - full prep, no primer. FWIW, Fed 210M primers weight about 4.3 grains each. These days I shoot Lake City LR brass and it weighs between 175 and 182 grains per case. When I load Lapua, it use 42.2 grains of 4064. In order to get the same point of impact with the LC LR brass, I have to reduce my charge to 41.2, 41.0, or 40.8 grains. In my rifle, I get just a smidge over 2,600 fps with those loads. If the brass is the same then either you pulled those shots or your gun is behaving in an unusual way.
 
The goal is to find a charge where the group doesn't move around even if your powder charge isn't perfect. In your 0.1 string, the 43.0 group is wide because of wind (probably:) ). 42.8 looks great and 43.2 looks great. It appears that if you chose 43.0 and if your powder charge was anywhere between 42.8 and 43.2, the group would print in the same place. The problems are 42.9 and 43.1. If you have a node at 43.0, then 42.8 through 43.2 should all have the same point of impact and the group size should grow slightly as you move away from 43.0. 43.1 has vertical and 42.9 is too big. And neither of those make sense.

I would reload and reshoot that series.

Pay particular attention to your fundamentals - shoulder position, strong hand grip strength, strong hand thumb position and trigger finger position, trigger pull, and breathing. Make sure that the scope is pointing at the center of the target when the shot breaks. You said that you are using bags made from rice and tee shirts. Be sure that you also have and use a rear bag. The stock fore-end pays in the front bag - remove the front sling attachment. The butt stock lays on the rear bag. Squeeze the rear back harder to raise the buttstock and lower the point of aim.

Make and use wind flags - put three or four garden stakes or other sticks downrange, hang two feet of engineer tape off them. As the wind blows the tape will stream downwind. With no wind, the tape hangs straight down. Light wind the tape starts to stream out downwind. For a given wind speed the angle made by the stake and the tape will be the same. Shoot all your shots at the same angle. If the direction is changing, the tape may stream toward or away from you - this can be tricky but you are not in a hurry.

You want the absolute best possible performance from the gun -- like you were shooting in a warehouse without wind and off a machine rest.

By the way, you certainly could go down to 42.6 but if 43.0 is the center then 42.6 would be an unusually wide node.

One other idea. Just for the heck of it, weigh this brass. You said that it is Lapua. The old Lapua brass was the most consistent I ever saw. But the newer Lapua is not quite as good as the old stuff. It is possible (but unlikely) that 42.9 and 43.1 can be explained by inconsistent brass. My Lapua brass weighs about 71 to 72 grains per case - full prep, no primer. FWIW, Fed 210M primers weight about 4.3 grains each. These days I shoot Lake City LR brass and it weighs between 175 and 182 grains per case. When I load Lapua, it use 42.2 grains of 4064. In order to get the same point of impact with the LC LR brass, I have to reduce my charge to 41.2, 41.0, or 40.8 grains. In my rifle, I get just a smidge over 2,600 fps with those loads. If the brass is the same then either you pulled those shots or your gun is behaving in an unusual way.

I think I will try around 43g again. I did weigh my brass after prep and used brass that was within +/- 0.1g of each other.