Hey guys I'm new to the forum and still learning as I go, so bear with me. I am looking for a affordable .308 that isn't gonna rape my wallet. I plan to build it up as i go and eventually have it be a pretty nice rifle. This rifle will mainly be shooting at paper at ranges out to 400 yards. Any and all suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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.308 suggestions
- Thread starter Chalky14
- Start date
If you're only shooting to 400 yards buy a 223. The targets won't know the difference but your wallet and shoulder will. For a budget minded rifle I'd recommend the SPS tactical.
Redneck has a good point, if 400 is your max distance stick to something cheaper to shoot. Unless you want to go hunting with it as well, then .308 is a nice diverse caliber. Hello from a fellow Michigan shooter.
Rem 700 in sps or AAC-SD. great platform and the sky is the limit. But if you will never shoot paper past 400, a bolt .223 would be the best non-wallet-raping platform.
I'll just echo what everybody else has said. You can get the 700 SPS tactical in either .308 or .223 for around $550. After that, you can drop the barreled action into most styles of chassis/stocks, slap on a bipod, and a decent scope. For a budget minded build, I would recommend the SWFA SS line or the Vortex Viper PST's. I used to have a SPS tactical in .308 with a piece of shit Millet TRS-1 (before I knew any better) and it would should 168 gr Hornaday match rounds into the same hole at 100 yds.
I really like the ideas guys and ill start looking into 223 bolt guns as i already have a 223 AR. Im curious about the 300 blkout cartridge, can anyone give me some more info on it? (Specs, availability)
For a newbie shooter, I always recommend howa 1500's. They are great out of the box rifles and very affordable. And yes, maybe consider .233 because .308 will run you 2-3x the cost to shoot.
As far as ammo cost, the 300 BLK is probably about the same as a good match .308 round. It will have less recoil, and it also is very ballistically inferior to the .308, but you can certainly shoot it out to 400yds. .308 ammo is much more available, but you shouldn't have a super hard time finding 300 BLK either, especially if you buy it online. If you plan on ever getting a suppressor, 300 BLK subsonics are an absolute blast to shoot.
^^What he said^^
I would get a Remington 700 or Tikka, Savage, FN. But Lots more aftermarket part for the 700 to upgrade with later. Spend the money on good glass and ammo.
You can get into a 20" fluted 1:10 twist Remington 700 in 308 cheap by getting the SPS Lt-Tactical (Lews Horton) Model# 85471. Runs just under $600 and will shoot darn good out if the box. Later you can upgrade the stock from the SPS to whatever you like. My first bolt gun build started this way and the only thing I regret is selling it to build a custom.
That Lt-tactical was a shooter for me! It's a good budget entry gun.
That Lt-tactical was a shooter for me! It's a good budget entry gun.
an expensive package...
to the OP: .223 sps tac or the savage equivalent. I have a 308 sps tac and its about 1.25/rd to shoot FGMM since I don't have reloading stuff for this caliber yet.
Savage precision carbine witch is there model 10 line or a used model 10 since part of the 10 line was discontinued in December 2013
I've never shot one of those but handling one in the store i was impressed. i also liked the digicam stock because i'm hella tacticool.
I'm partial to the Tikka T3. For all out price to accuracy, the Rem 700 and Savage 10 are also great guns. (Whetherby and Howa are supposed to be pretty nice, although less common, but I have no experience with them.) Just about any hunting rifle with .223+ caliber using solid optics (Don't have to be expensive necessarily, although I would recommend making an investment in a good scope. It should be firm at holding a zero, and able to adjust for elevation and windage.) should be able to reach 400 yards. .308 is great, but prices are a little steep, with ~$.60/rd for Cheap NATO ball, ~$1.10/rd for entry level match grade ammo. Even hand loading, you can't really get your match grade rounds below $.50-.60 each, But it is still a blast to shoot.
All of said guns run between about $500 - $800 depending on model, so if you are serious about getting a decent gun be prepared to spend ~$1000 for the finished product. If you just want a cheap hunting rifle for plinking out to 400 yards, look into the used market. Lots of used Rem 700s are floating around out there looking for a home, and you may be able to save quite a bit off retail. Entry level Burris and Vortex BDC scopes can run anywhere from $150 on sale to about $400, and are still very good quality.
Happy Shooting!
All of said guns run between about $500 - $800 depending on model, so if you are serious about getting a decent gun be prepared to spend ~$1000 for the finished product. If you just want a cheap hunting rifle for plinking out to 400 yards, look into the used market. Lots of used Rem 700s are floating around out there looking for a home, and you may be able to save quite a bit off retail. Entry level Burris and Vortex BDC scopes can run anywhere from $150 on sale to about $400, and are still very good quality.
Happy Shooting!
Yeah there a damn good bang for your buck. I swear by my Savage, its my go to gun out to 800meters. If your shooting on a budget and want top shelf glass for a great price i love the SWFA SS10x42 fixed power. It will be great glass out to 1000meters and with a fixed power you get better glass for your buck. the scope is built to mil spec standards and is rugged as hell and is equal glass with the fat cats. Just as good as any 1000 to 2000 dollar glass in my opinion and the SWFA SS scopes are only $299 for any of their fixed powers 10x, 12x, 16x, 20x. There are many threads on here that will back the SWFA quality that i speak of.
you're preaching to the choir buddy, I have a SWFA 3-15 FFP scope resting on top of my SPS tac
I always recommend them to people as a good way to learn mil ranging and mil/mil adjustments on a budget while not giving up optical clarity.
howa .308...they are with out a doubt the finest reasonably priced starting point today. flat bottom receivers like the high dollar bench rest jobs. you can replace the trigger (I prefer the rifle basix) with one screw...not that the factory trigger isn't fine, I just like mine around 14 oz. the recoil lug is designed for bedding and the bolt is smoother than most customs and has the m-16 style extractor if i'm not mistaken. mine groups on the average 1/3" on a good day when the wind is working with me. these group averages are based on the snipers hide 6 five shot groups. if I can figure out how to load pics i'll post one of the old girl, as she now has more than 3000 rounds logged.
The 700 series for the entry price is tough to beat. The biggest benefit to the 700 series is the amount of aftermarket parts that can be found. If you can spring for the 5R line they have a better barrel and stock.
The Tikka T3s have a well deserved reputation for being extremely accurate. I have two .308 chambered T3s, one is a heavy barrel, the other is a sporter. The heavy barrel Tikka rivals my .308 Sako TRG in accuracy.
I use a Remington 700 at the deparment for our sniper rifle. I personally built a Tikka T3 Scout. The Tikka is a much better rifle in my opinion even if it costs a little more, its well worth it. Just simply working the bolt on both you can tell a major difference.
As far as the 300BO, I have a Daniel Defense that I plan on using for hunting and it is quite accuracte for a semi auto. A few things to consider for the 300BO is if you are planning to hunt with it, you are pretty much limited to about 300 yards at the most. It loses a good bit of energy cause its basically a 223 casing pushing a 308 bullet if that makes sense. So its going to drop a good bit more than a 223 or 308. Ammo is not too hard to find for it. I got a case of Hornady on GB for $220 shipped so a little over a $1 a round. The main reason I got it though is because my suppressor should be here in a couple months.
I have been tempted to build a 300BO from Remington's 700 so I could have a bolt 300BO also, but I just don't think its feasible considering I have the Tikka.
Hope this helps.
Oh, and your wallet is gonna get raped. Go ahead and prepare for it. You will constantly be finding upgrades that you HAVE to have.
As far as the 300BO, I have a Daniel Defense that I plan on using for hunting and it is quite accuracte for a semi auto. A few things to consider for the 300BO is if you are planning to hunt with it, you are pretty much limited to about 300 yards at the most. It loses a good bit of energy cause its basically a 223 casing pushing a 308 bullet if that makes sense. So its going to drop a good bit more than a 223 or 308. Ammo is not too hard to find for it. I got a case of Hornady on GB for $220 shipped so a little over a $1 a round. The main reason I got it though is because my suppressor should be here in a couple months.
I have been tempted to build a 300BO from Remington's 700 so I could have a bolt 300BO also, but I just don't think its feasible considering I have the Tikka.
Hope this helps.
Oh, and your wallet is gonna get raped. Go ahead and prepare for it. You will constantly be finding upgrades that you HAVE to have.
Another Michigan shooter here. Welcome. In no way will the 300 Blackout be a candidate for anything beyond 200 yards. It's a ballistic turd and only good for shooting suppressed out of an AR or for hunting at short ranges. After 200 it drops like a stone. The .308 is a good overall cartridge because it's cheap and easy to find. You can shoot everything from the cheapest surplus to the most expensive match. Yes 223 is also great especially for shorter ranges but if you decide to eventually go longer you will be wanting more. I am also a Savage nut because of their versitility. With a simple and cheap set of tools you can have a .223/.308 switch barrel with only one optic. Two barrels and bolt heads and you can swap them out. The best bang for your buck in a starter rifle is the Savage Hog Hunter. They can be purchased locally for less than $500. The stock 20" varmint barrels are good shooters and come threaded for a brake. The plastic stock is a throw away but you can get decent stocks from a Boyd's Tacticool or Thumbhole laminate for $100 up to full a full chassis. Pick your poison. Out of the box they are shooters. They are the top bolt release blind mag model and can be easily converted to BDM/Mags. I have built quite a few great shooters with on the Hog Hunter donor.
I agree with the group.
My T3 Tikka 223 is spooky accurate. Great place to start.
My Savage 16 308 is spooky accurate. Great place to start.
BMT
My T3 Tikka 223 is spooky accurate. Great place to start.
My Savage 16 308 is spooky accurate. Great place to start.
BMT
If you wanted the 308 I would stick wit it. I originally wanted a 308 but decided to get a 223 because I only have access to 300 yds. I also have ab AR so I thought no need to start buying anothe caliber of ammo. Bought an FN TSR XP .223. Guess what? I still wanted a 308 and wasn'thappy so I bought a Remoington 700 Milspec 5R. Now I have a 223 that I don't hardly shoot because the 308 is more fun.
This. Add a 12X SWFA SS scope, a rail, a bipod and a bag and start shooting to get some trigger time.
Then over time, replace the stock, the barrel, the action, the trigger, the bipod, the scope and the rail.
Or just don't buy a piece of shit remington where you have to replace every single componet to get it to shoot like other factory rifles...............
I was recently in your position, and with similar range access. If I could do it over again, I would have picked up a R700 223 AACSD, added any stock with adjustable length of pull, added a timney, and then top it off with a SWFA 10x. I thought I wanted 308, but it's a bit of a waste and has more kick than I want for all day shooting (hardly unbearable, but affects me enough to have to deal with a flinch, certainly user not rifle). I also bought a Vortex pst 4-16, but it's underwhelming for the price and I'd rather have spent the price difference vs the SWFA on ammo (which would have been cheaper to reload than the 308). Just my retrospective thoughts.
Edited to add: I also now own the SWFA on a 22 trainer and honestly I think the glass isn't a little clearer than my Vortex. I'd say go to the next tier (new Steiner?) or stick with swfa.
Edited to add: I also now own the SWFA on a 22 trainer and honestly I think the glass isn't a little clearer than my Vortex. I'd say go to the next tier (new Steiner?) or stick with swfa.
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Just a side note here....I know its probably out of your budget but my Tikka in the Whiskey 3 Chassis doesn't have much recoil at all being a 308. Much Much less than the stock Remington 700. I would say its really close to the same as a 223.
It is quite heavy however, maybe 15 lbs with the chassis, scope, bipod and all.
It is quite heavy however, maybe 15 lbs with the chassis, scope, bipod and all.
If .308 recoil is an issue than perhaps a hobby such as knitting or basket weaving is more appropriate.
Much less sand enters the vag this way.
Much less sand enters the vag this way.
^ that's funny stuff right there.
i got a 700 varmint "dicks special" in .243. it shoots 3.5" groups at 425 yards with cheap assed BTSP. i put a clamp on witt brake on it just because i had a coupon. can see the impacts through the optic. feels like a hot / heavy headed .223, maybe even little less, and is sub MOA out to 425. added bottom metal and a choate tactical, which the weight helped too. very smooth shooting and accurate.
sort of bridges the gap between .223 and .308, and have never been happier with another caliber.
love my .308 stevens 200, 4" at 425Y with 110 vmax or 165 sst and a sporter profile barrel. can go from light varmint rounds to enough to go for bear if you wish, and prints well on paper. has the same brake just because of the coupon. then there is the .308 subsonic option.
for a budget conscious shooter, either provides an accurate enough platform, especially if patient enough to buy "when on sale" or coupon in hand, and both has more than enough accuracy enhancements a DIYer can do in the garage.
even that savage 10V at dicks seems to be a deal for 550.00ish
save a few bucks there and invest the rest in glass and reloading supplies. load your own "recoil managed" rounds, then you can go full power later, just to squeeze as much out of what you got by loading your own.
if i go with another rifle for coyotes and such, it'll be a howa 1500 in .243 or perhaps kick around a .260 rem, same action as a mossberg or weatherby vanguard
neither of the 3 rifles or calibers are gucci, but they do get the job done well vs. price, light on the wallet, and better to go out past 400Y or a more versatile hunting cartridge than .223 when the time comes.
i got a 700 varmint "dicks special" in .243. it shoots 3.5" groups at 425 yards with cheap assed BTSP. i put a clamp on witt brake on it just because i had a coupon. can see the impacts through the optic. feels like a hot / heavy headed .223, maybe even little less, and is sub MOA out to 425. added bottom metal and a choate tactical, which the weight helped too. very smooth shooting and accurate.
sort of bridges the gap between .223 and .308, and have never been happier with another caliber.
love my .308 stevens 200, 4" at 425Y with 110 vmax or 165 sst and a sporter profile barrel. can go from light varmint rounds to enough to go for bear if you wish, and prints well on paper. has the same brake just because of the coupon. then there is the .308 subsonic option.
for a budget conscious shooter, either provides an accurate enough platform, especially if patient enough to buy "when on sale" or coupon in hand, and both has more than enough accuracy enhancements a DIYer can do in the garage.
even that savage 10V at dicks seems to be a deal for 550.00ish
save a few bucks there and invest the rest in glass and reloading supplies. load your own "recoil managed" rounds, then you can go full power later, just to squeeze as much out of what you got by loading your own.
if i go with another rifle for coyotes and such, it'll be a howa 1500 in .243 or perhaps kick around a .260 rem, same action as a mossberg or weatherby vanguard
neither of the 3 rifles or calibers are gucci, but they do get the job done well vs. price, light on the wallet, and better to go out past 400Y or a more versatile hunting cartridge than .223 when the time comes.
Hahaha, nice. Can't find the like button. The instructor at my last carbine course had similar commentary for a few shooters.
My comment earlier isn't really meant to say the 308 has a lot of recoil, but I shoot around 200 rounds rounds per outing, once weekly. Around 150 deep I start to notice. Wouldn't think twice if I was using it it's long range, but at 300 it's kind kind if a waste. That's what I was trying to convey to op since he has similar range limitations.
My comment earlier isn't really meant to say the 308 has a lot of recoil, but I shoot around 200 rounds rounds per outing, once weekly. Around 150 deep I start to notice. Wouldn't think twice if I was using it it's long range, but at 300 it's kind kind if a waste. That's what I was trying to convey to op since he has similar range limitations.
LOL. I was going to put it this way, but thought I would try the soft approach as he appeared to be dead set on buying a cheap precision rifle.
Another vote for the .308 here...especially if you don't hand load...nothing out there gives you the available options on ammo choices..if you can't find a factory load that shoots,you've got a pos barrel...you don't need it to put holes in things out to 400,but it's much more flexible than the .223 should your requirements change down the road...
And again,hello from Michigan...!
And again,hello from Michigan...!
1 gun out of hundreds of thousands is a poor sample size
Savage are known to be unreliable/ have serious issues if used hard.
Compared to a QUALITY gun, they are absolute dog shit. Its not even debatable.
So with that being said, how can you recommend one?
I saw you said Tikkas, any specific model? My understanding is that they stopped importing the .308 varmint and the tac and ctr rifles are significantly more expensive
LOL Cobracutter. Maybe you should have read the OP's origional message. He is looking for a "starter rifle on a budge". What part of that made you think the rifle is going to be hard used? Don't be Savage hater dude. They flat out shoot well and and extremely flexible for those like to DIY. I am never embarrased at the line with my home custom Savages and hard use is defined by the user. I shoot mine alot! Do I crawl around in the dirt and mud on infil missions...no. Will I ever....NO.
Savage makes a great budget beginner platform. Not everyone can afford a custom and beginnners should never BEGIN with a custom. Your basic Remmy 700 or Savage 10 will get you going with minimal cost. Spend the dough on ammo and a good optic. Once you have a clue you can go full custom or even stay with the dog assed Savages if that's your huckleberry. Nothing better than running with the big dogs with a home brewed Savage.
Carry on!
really? i know what i want to say, but it'll make me sound like a dick. i'll let the several thousand experienced, casual, and novice shooters that cloverleaf out of the box with factory ammo speak the volumes.
yeah everyone punching paper at 400 yards runs their rifle "hard" too, and buys their kids a bentley for their first car.
you are correct, it's not even worth debating.
I would choose in this order: Tikka, Howa, Savage, Remington.
Pick your poison and get shooting!
Pick your poison and get shooting!
LOL Cobracutter. Maybe you should have read the OP's origional message. He is looking for a "starter rifle on a budge". What part of that made you think the rifle is going to be hard used? Don't be Savage hater dude. They flat out shoot well and and extremely flexible for those like to DIY. I am never embarrased at the line with my home custom Savages and hard use is defined by the user. I shoot mine alot! Do I crawl around in the dirt and mud on infil missions...no. Will I ever....NO.
Savage makes a great budget beginner platform. Not everyone can afford a custom and beginnners should never BEGIN with a custom. Your basic Remmy 700 or Savage 10 will get you going with minimal cost. Spend the dough on ammo and a good optic. Once you have a clue you can go full custom or even stay with the dog assed Savages if that's your huckleberry. Nothing better than running with the big dogs with a home brewed Savage.
Carry on!
No they are shit. For a cheap hunting rifle or something to throw a couple of rounds at paper or dirt they are OK.
They are a shitty designed gun with their own set of problems. It has been proven upteen times, that if you run them hard or push they.....they fail. AS such, they are a waste of money when much better products are produced for similar money.
What you and 90% of the mouth breathers on this site fail to understand is statistics. You think because you have a decent gun (or one you don't hardly shoot, or you don't know your gun sucks because you are ignorant) that they all are decent guns.
The truth is, there are tens of thousands of these guns out there. They have been tested and run hard.........and they fail. Almost universally to the point they are one of the worst factory rifles made. Now if you need a cheap hunting rifle and shoot a box of ammo a year, it will probally be acceptable for your 8MOA hunting requirement. Even then its silly when you can buy a stock tikka T3 lite in the caliber of your choice.... that beats just about any factory rifle in every category.
The flip side is, this sport is EXPENSIVE. Quality costs money and you get what you pay for. Cheaping out is pissing bad money after bad money. So trying to shoot or getting into the sport on a cheap budget is futile. Your better of taking your entire budget, taking a few training classes (with rented guns) and actualy learn something. Then you might have a bit of a headstart on what you want to buy.
There are a good number of cheaper factory rifles out there that are every bit as good as a custom gun. The T3 Sporter/Tac/Varmit/CTR (soon to be) and the FN SPR are bargins that no one is going to outshoot for practical purposes........atleast in a .308 chamber.
You seem to think that shitty cheap gear can hang with the big dogs? How many savages were in the PRS Finals? How many Military/Sniper/Tac comps are won with a savage? Truth is they can't. They can't even survive most basic precision rifle courses without going down.
So you are privy to the number of Match and Ultra Match barrels that have been sold, their accuracy requirement, and where each of them shoots?
Feel like sharing your data with the rest of us?
Dude tell us how you really feel!!! Not all members here are operators or mil/Leo snipers. Not all can afford a Surgeon or DTS. I can but prefer not to although I have had some nice rifles. I'll never run a tactical match although I shoot hundreds of rounds at steel at 1000 regularly. Your definition of hard use does not exist in my world and never will short of TEOTWAWKI or the ZA. So if that makes me and those like me an ignorant mouth breather in your opinion the ill just make judicious use of the ignore button so your obnoxious, rude and opinionated posts no longer show up.
Carry on.
Carry on.
The OP wants to shoot paper out to 400 yds. Probably from a bench. A Savage will probably withstand that. If he decides to jump into the competition circut and his rifle starts to show issues then he can upgrade from there. Not everybody wants or needs to start with a multi thousand dollar gun and a multi thousand dollar optic. It is perfectly ok to start low and work your way up.
Hopefully the OP gets a rifle of his choice, starts shooting, and becomes a dedicated member of the shooting sports.
Hopefully the OP gets a rifle of his choice, starts shooting, and becomes a dedicated member of the shooting sports.
400yds go .223. If I was gonna go .223 I'd do AR15 RRA all day, but since your looking for a bolt gun, I'd go Rem or Savage. If you want to have it built either will work, but there's alot of 700 stuff out there. 1st off, don't buy an SPS unless your gonna replace the stock 1st thing. I dunno about Raping your wallet, but you can buy a Stiller Tac 30 barreled action ready for a stock for $1700 RTG. If you can find an old ADL 700 for cheap, that's your best bet. When you can out shoot the gun, send it to Beanland/GAP,SAC,Clay Spencer, and viola.... It now out shoots you again.
BTW Danco??? Dog's A$$ Savage? I've got a 1600+yd range now, and sound's like you need to come and meet a few of the Savage guys I got here,lol. Yea I'm a 700 fan, but if I wanna just pull one out of the box, and get accuracy for the $, I'm looking at Savage 1st (cost) Winchester/FN 2nd. I'll put $ on a cpl of my Savage shooters to 1600yds anyday. Let the OP ask for info, and get intelligent feedback, like 99% on this site. This isn't BARF.com. Chill, I haven't saw a gun yet I don't like,lol. I'll take em all n shoot em
BTW Danco??? Dog's A$$ Savage? I've got a 1600+yd range now, and sound's like you need to come and meet a few of the Savage guys I got here,lol. Yea I'm a 700 fan, but if I wanna just pull one out of the box, and get accuracy for the $, I'm looking at Savage 1st (cost) Winchester/FN 2nd. I'll put $ on a cpl of my Savage shooters to 1600yds anyday. Let the OP ask for info, and get intelligent feedback, like 99% on this site. This isn't BARF.com. Chill, I haven't saw a gun yet I don't like,lol. I'll take em all n shoot em
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