.308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

BryanLitz

BryanLitz

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#1
<span style="font-size: 14pt">Announcing .308 Tactical Ammunition from Applied Ballistics, LLC.</span>


TacAmmo.png


<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Key items to note:</span></span>

1) Loaded with new 175 grain Berger Tactical bullets and Lapua Brass (large rifle primer)

2) Individually weighed powder charges (very rare for pre-assembled ammo). The weighed powder charges minimize velocity SD's to less than 10 fps. Not a big deal at short to medium range, but is a big deal at long range.

3) I designed the Berger 175 grain Tactical bullet specifically for this class of ammo (M118LR). It's mag length feed-able, length tolerant, stable at transonic speeds, and has a higher BC than the 175 SMK and the 178 Hornady. Not to mention being made to Berger's high standards of precision.

4) Made with the same equipment and practices as used to produce the highly successful AB FULLBORE Ammo which has been used to win at National and international levels of competition.

5) A 20" LaRue OBR was used as the primary test platform and routinely produces sub-MOA groups at 1000 yards with this ammo. Note that this precision is possible despite the bullets going transonic around 850 yards.

At $40/box of 20, this ammunition certainly represents the high end. The cost reflects the high quality components and time intensive methods used in it's assembly. If you're only shooting to 200 or 300 yards, you probably won't notice a big improvement with this option. However, if you routinely shoot to 600 yards and further, you will see a definite advantage with this ammunition compared to other 'factory' ammo that's loaded with lower quality components and metered charges of ball powder.

Currently in stock and available to ship
(UPS ground to the lower 48)

-Bryan
 
#3
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

Bryan,
Can you tell us what the avg. MV out of the 20" OBR pipe was? I looked and didn't see it in the link you posted. Obviously, if you're an advocate of this ammo, I'd say that's about as good a recommendation as one is ever likely to get. I'm just curious as to how hot it's loaded.

Thanks!
 
#4
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

Was about to order then a question popped up, what exactly is Bergers tactical bullet? I couldn't find it on their site, I see varmint, target and hunting. I see tactical in their headlines just not on a particular bullet. I shoot more animals than paper, is this a bad choice? Thanks man
 
#6
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

Thanks for the interest guys.

The chrono data from my last 3 sessions (10-shot groups)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Code:</div><div class="ubbcode-body ubbcode-pre" ><pre>Ave 2562 fps
ES 23 fps
SD 7.2 fps

Ave 2566 fps
ES 29 fps
SD 9.7 fps

Ave 2562 fps
ES 25 fps
SD 7.6 fps</pre></div></div>

Other rifles:
2643 fps average from a 26" Savage bolt rifle.
2808 fps average from a 30" Palma rifle.

The above velocities are for ambient temps around 30-40 degrees F. This ammo uses extruded powder and is very temperature stable.

The G1 BC for the Berger 175 Tactical OTM is .510 (average from 3000 to 1500 fps), and the G7 BC is .259.

This is a new bullet for Berger, specifically designed for this class of ammunition (M118LR). 'Tactical' means primarily that it is mag length feed-able, length tolerant (not sensitive to jump distance so it works well in many rifles), and in the case of this bullet, it is transonic stable*. It is made on Berger's <span style="font-style: italic">thick</span> target jacket, which is thicker than the VLD Hunting bullet jackets, but not as thick as the SMK jacket. The bullet is officially <span style="font-style: italic">not</span> recommended for hunting.

*The bullet only requires a 1:13" twist to be stable from the muzzle, but transonic stability has only been proven in the 1:11.25" twist so far.

Berger will be coming out with more Tactical bullets as specific requirements are identified.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

-Bryan
 
#10
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

Add me to the list of those interested in buying this bullet. If I didn't load my own, I would be buying this.
 
#13
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The website you provided in your post is not working for me at all. Am interested in this ammo. Might like to try some out. </div></div>

Worked for me....

http://store.appliedballisticsllc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AB308T
 
#15
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The website you provided in your post is not working for me at all. Am interested in this ammo. Might like to try some out. </div></div>

Worked for me....

http://store.appliedballisticsllc.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=AB308T </div></div>

I was having trouble loading it. I finally got it though. See edited message above.
 
#17
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hank440</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bryan

Any chance you could load some with the 155 Lapua bullet ?

Hank </div></div>

He's the chief ballistician for BERGER bullets. If anything, you will see their 155.5 loaded up.

Josh
 
#18
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hank440</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bryan

Any chance you could load some with the 155 Lapua bullet ?

Hank </div></div>

He's the chief ballistician for BERGER bullets. If anything, you will see their 155.5 loaded up.

Josh</div></div>

It is loaded up, go see his other products, the Berger 155 is available now.
 
#19
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hank440</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bryan

Any chance you could load some with the 155 Lapua bullet ?

Hank </div></div>

He's the chief ballistician for BERGER bullets. If anything, you will see their 155.5 loaded up.

Josh </div></div>

OK that's fine then berger 155.5
grin.gif
 
#20
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hank440</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bryan

Any chance you could load some with the 155 Lapua bullet ?

Hank </div></div>

He's the chief ballistician for BERGER bullets. If anything, you will see their 155.5 loaded up.

Josh </div></div>

Bryan is a nice guy.....

I am sure he will spin you up some 175 SMK....
smile.gif
 
#21
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

Thanks for commenting on the slow loading. Has anyone else had trouble/delays loading the store page?
http://store.appliedballisticsllc.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=46

To address the question of loading Lapua and Sierra bullets...
There are lots of people and companies doing that already. I have nothing against those brands, but I am interested in doing something different. Berger often suffers from the perception that their bullets are not 'friendly' for use in pre-assembled ammunition. They have a reputation for not being length tolerant (accuracy is sensitive to seating depth). This reputation was born from the VLD, a bullet which certainly is sensitive to seating depth, and does have to be tuned in handloads to get good accuracy. However, Berger is now offering options that are more length tolerant, and are perfectly suited for use in pre-assembled ammo. Trouble is, the old perception born from the VLD is still in place, so many of the large ammo makers are reluctant to try them.

Since I've designed the latest bullets for Berger with the specific objective of being length tolerant, I can confidently load them into ammo knowing they'll work in many rifles. Over time, I believe the perception of Berger bullets as a 'handload only' bullet will evolve, and other large ammo makers will become interested. But for now, I'm happy to lead the way with two ammo types that are loaded with length tolerant Berger bullets!

-Bryan
 
#22
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

For anyone like myself that doesn't handload (and possibly even those who do) that may be on the fence about these rounds, it might be worth considering from this perspective.

Where else are you going to purchase a pre-loaded round that:

A) has the actual projectile specifically <span style="font-style: italic">designed</span> by the very same person that also tested and developed the load?

B) was tested and developed by an EXPERT ballistician and shooter that is also a sponsor/member and regular poster on this website?

Personally, I think it's a no-brainer. The only question I have at this point is whether there might be a load like this with a similar but slightly heavier projectile in the 180-200 gr range currently in the works?
 
#27
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

Thanks for the vote of confidence g!

Sako,
Your 1:12" will be fine for this ammo. The bullet only needs a 1:13" to be stable from the muzzle. Transonic stability is verified from a 1:11.25", and I suspect it would also be transonic stable from a 1:12" as well. It will certainly be good from muzzle to whatever range it goes transonic.

-Bryan
 
#28
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

Bryan, I'm curious to know how you approached seating depth / oal for your ammo. Are all .308 loaded to the same oal or ogive and if so what is that and is it based on anything other than saami or other specs ? Just trying to understand how you consider the relationship between loading longer vs producing a round that fits in most mags/easy to load. Thx
 
#30
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bryan Litz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for commenting on the slow loading. Has anyone else had trouble/delays loading the store page?
http://store.appliedballisticsllc.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=46

To address the question of loading Lapua and Sierra bullets...
There are lots of people and companies doing that already. I have nothing against those brands, but I am interested in doing something different. Berger often suffers from the perception that their bullets are not 'friendly' for use in pre-assembled ammunition. They have a reputation for not being length tolerant (accuracy is sensitive to seating depth). This reputation was born from the VLD, a bullet which certainly is sensitive to seating depth, and does have to be tuned in handloads to get good accuracy. However, Berger is now offering options that are more length tolerant, and are perfectly suited for use in pre-assembled ammo. Trouble is, the old perception born from the VLD is still in place, so many of the large ammo makers are reluctant to try them.

Since I've designed the latest bullets for Berger with the specific objective of being length tolerant, I can confidently load them into ammo knowing they'll work in many rifles. Over time, I believe the perception of Berger bullets as a 'handload only' bullet will evolve, and other large ammo makers will become interested. But for now, I'm happy to lead the way with two ammo types that are loaded with length tolerant Berger bullets!

-Bryan </div></div>

I've found this statement VERY true with the 155.5 fullbore. I had a hard time finding a length in my stock AE that wouldn't preform less then half minute with the right charge. The final load was capable of 5 round groups slightly under 1" at 300 yards. It still surprises me that I see so few shooters using them outside of F-Class/Palma style events.
 
#31
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

TJ,

The FULLBORE ammo is loaded to be 0.015" off the riflings in the 2011 FULLBORE chamber which is being used by the US rifle team. It's also the same throat length as the popular '95 Palma chamber used in the Savage Palma rifle. This seating depth with the 155.5 grain bullet results in an OAL just over 2.900" which is too long for mag feeding. That's OK though, because almost every Palma/FULLBORE rifle uses a solid bottom receiver and the shooters single the rounds so mag feeding is a non-issue.

The tactical ammo on the other hand does necessarily have to be mag length, so it's loaded to 2.800" OAL. No doubt this bullet will encounter a huge range of jump distances to the riflings in the many rifles it will be fired from, so the best thing you can do there is go with a length tolerant ogive design (tangent). This is the advantage of being the bullet designer and the ammo assembler; the parts fit like they were made for each other.

-Bryan
 
#44
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

Bryan i agree, about berger getting a reputation of not being length tolerant. Although like you said that was mainly due to the VLDs. I was worried about the same until recently i loaded up some groups with the 175gr BT LR all shot SUB moa, without a hitch. Keep up the great work.

Lowlight, if or when you get a chance to shoot them are you going to do a video review?
 
#45
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bryan i agree, about berger getting a reputation of not being length tolerant. Although like you said that was mainly due to the VLDs. I was worried about the same until recently i loaded up some groups with the 175gr BT LR all shot SUB moa, without a hitch. Keep up the great work.

Lowlight, if or when you get a chance to shoot them are you going to do a video review? </div></div>

+1 Hope so!
 
#46
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

Last week had a chance to shoot the tactical 308 ammo out to about 250 yds before cows meandering through the range and hail shut me down. Shot it through a 22 inch barrel 1 in 11 twist-very impressive groups for what they are worth-really want to take it to 800/1000 perhaps next weekend and hope the sun shines so the chrono can actually register some numbers at next visit.
 
#48
Re: .308 Tactical Ammo from Applied Ballistics

Update: I see that Midway now has these bullets for sale. I'm going to see what I can work up for my M1As, OBR, and GAP Crusader, but probably not until it cools off a bit down here.
 
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