.308 Winchester

[xsn10s]

I see, so just shoot how you're going to shoot. I guess I thought a lead sled would take out my user error.

I understood that my setup needed to be as close to exact as I could, so I had drawn circles around the feet of the lead sled to return it if it moved. What you're saying makes sense, though, now that I think about it, because I would find I might need to raise or lower the front rest just a tad between some shots.

I also don't have a great bipod, so I guess I'll have to look into that

There's nothing wrong with shooting from the bench while doing load development. Heck if all you want to do is shoot from the bench that's perfectly fine. I shoot from the bench using a bipod and rear bag when during load development. Sand bags or a good Eagle front rest is my preferred method. After that it's mostly field positions in tall grass where prone isn't practical most of the time.

 

[Snuby642]

The old lead sled I have somware around was purchased when I got a Winchester featherweight in 270.

It was a bitch on my skinny shoulder. A nice decelerator pad helped that.

Then I started to use it to get the scope close and fine tune from the shoulder.

I found my poi would shift with / without the sled.

I don't buy pencil barrels anymore and use brakes for help with recoil.

There is a wild possibility my recoil management has gotten better but still prefer bag to a bipod (frustrating).

 

[climbing1]

This is prob mentioned somewhere so apologies, I’m on my phone. Newish to reloading and worked up 39 through 42 varget on 178 ELDM’s. I grouped best at 42. Hornady considers it hot at 42.4. At 42 I’m getting about a 2400 average. Can I push this at all safely? Yes, I get it; Hornady publishes X numbers for a reason, but I venture to guess they really error on the low side to not subject themselves to liability. I’ve read a few ppl going up to 45 no problems, but wanted to get input. Tikka UPR 24” barrel. Thx

 

[Rob01]

This is prob mentioned somewhere so apologies, I’m on my phone. Newish to reloading and worked up 39 through 42 varget on 178 ELDM’s. I grouped best at 42. Hornady considers it hot at 42.4. At 42 I’m getting about a 2400 average. Can I push this at all safely? Yes, I get it; Hornady publishes X numbers for a reason, but I venture to guess they really error on the low side to not subject themselves to liability. I’ve read a few ppl going up to 45 no problems, but wanted to get input. Tikka UPR 24” barrel. Thx

Hodgdon says 45grns for 175/178 when using Win brass so depends on the brass you use and your rifle if you can go up from 42 or not.

That said I start at 43grns personally when loading Varget and the 168/178 weight bullets even in Lapua/Hornady brass.

 

[climbing1]

Hodgdon says 45grns for 175/178 when using Win brass so depends on the brass you use and your rifle if you can go up from 42 or not.

That said I start at 43grns personally when loading Varget and the 168/178 weight bullets even in Lapua/Hornady brass.

What I’m using is a bunch of LC military brass I got for free and Federal Gold Medal. All once fired brass. So if I’m understanding correctly, it’s contingent on wall thickness? Try 43 and maybe go up until I start seeing pressure signs? Thanks for the quick reply, Rob!

 

[Rob01]

What I’m using is a bunch of LC military brass I got for free and Federal Gold Medal. All once fired brass. So if I’m understanding correctly, it’s contingent on wall thickness? Try 43 and maybe go up until I start seeing pressure signs? Thanks for the quick reply, Rob!

LC brass is usually on the small side for internal capacity so I’d work up slowly from the 42 mark.

And yeah it’s wall thickness which effects internal capacity. The Winchester brass is usually thinner and a larger internal capacity.

 

[OkieMike]

I believe the "rule of thumb" for loading Lake City brass is to basically subtract 2 grains from Hodgdon's listed max charge... If Hodgdon lists 45 gr MAX then with Lake City you're probably going to max out around 43 give or take.

There is 20-30 grains difference in weight between Winchester brass and Lake City brass. Whereas there is only 5-7 grains difference between Federal and Lake City brass... At least that is what I have observed.

If you're loading Lake City brass with Hodgdon load data start at minimum and work up. It'll ll save you some trouble. Been there, done that.

And if you're loading for an AR-10 or M1A/M14, use Hodgdon's .308 service rifle data. They use Winchester brass for that too... So if you're using Lake City brass... Again reduce your max charges by about 2 grains.

Mike

 

[BCP]

This is prob mentioned somewhere so apologies, I’m on my phone. Newish to reloading and worked up 39 through 42 varget on 178 ELDM’s. I grouped best at 42. Hornady considers it hot at 42.4. At 42 I’m getting about a 2400 average. Can I push this at all safely? Yes, I get it; Hornady publishes X numbers for a reason, but I venture to guess they really error on the low side to not subject themselves to liability. I’ve read a few ppl going up to 45 no problems, but wanted to get input. Tikka UPR 24” barrel. Thx

43gr Varg LC or FC brass 175smk 2.810" was my load

My load workup with 178eld would be 2.83 and start around 41.5, 41.8 and go to 43max

 

[Old Corps 8541]

"Tikka UPR" , I know you can load your rounds to a little longer AOL in your Tikka Mag. And the 178 ELD M is a very long bullet that even at Tikka's OAL you still have a lot of bullet below the case / neck junction, So , my question is WHY the 187 ELD-M ???

 

[357Max]

IMO the 308W really comes alive when you step away from the 175gr class of bullets.

The 177SMK is in a different league vs. 175’s. Depends on the speed you can get with heavies. At 2750 the 177’s do very well.

 

[climbing1]

"Tikka UPR" , I know you can load your rounds to a little longer AOL in your Tikka Mag. And the 178 ELD M is a very long bullet that even at Tikka's OAL you still have a lot of bullet below the case / neck junction, So , my question is WHY the 187 ELD-M ???

Sorry, I don't fully understand your question... As mentioned, I'm newish to reloading.

The 178's I got a great deal on and read a lot of people were happy with that particular round in .308. I have 500 of them, so I'm going to make it work . FWIW, at 42 I'm getting more consistent groups than I did with quality factory ammo, so for me as a reload newb, it's a win.

Based on your last question, what is it you're suggesting I should do? Get some 168's next time because I can burn more powder with a longer OAL because "Tikka?" Thanks

 

[climbing1]

IMO the 308W really comes alive when you step away from the 175gr class of bullets.

By going up or down?

 

[357Max]

Crushing brass like souls

RWS & Norma having no issues after 450rnds. 4 firings only so far. 26” barrel + slowish for caliber powder = Happy brass.

 

[Rob01]

By going up or down?

It depends on use. If shooting Tac Division in PRS then the 178 is the max weight and 2800fps is the max velocity so why most competing stay under it. If no limitations then look for decent BC and accuracy in the rifle. And stating a generic weight is also not really giving the right picture either as bullets have evolved since the old 175 SMK so being in that weight is not a bad place to be now. 168-178 is my range with a .308.

 

[climbing1]

It depends on use. If shooting Tac Division in PRS then the 178 is the max weight and 2800fps is the max velocity so why most competing stay under it. If no limitations then look for decent BC and accuracy in the rifle. And stating a generic weight is also not really giving the right picture either as bullets have evolved since the old 175 SMK so being in that weight is not a bad place to be now. 168-178 is my range with a .308.

Super helpful, thanks.

So to get 2800, which was what I was after (more velocity) I need to switch powders or use a greater brass capacity, such as Winchester? Because I’m at 42gr at 2400 ish pushing the 178 ELDM. Appreciate the help.

 

[Rob01]

How long is your barrel? Also Tikka is known for slower barrels so that could be a factor as well.

 

[climbing1]

Both. Depending on how you configure your rifle. 16" Large Frame AR? 130 - 155gr, 20" lightweight hunting rifle? 130 - 165gr, 20" precision bolt gun? 155-169gr, long heavy competition rifle? 185 Juggernauts. I'm shooting 169SMKs at 2820 out of a 24" AI AT.

I shoot 125gr FMJs for AR matches out of my 16" AR. 130 Barnes TTSX for hunting, and 155 SMK Palmas for 600yd matches with it.

Shooting 175gr bullets at 2600 is 3-slow-8.

You guys are above my pay grade so let me ask it like this: I’m gonna shoot these 178’s until I’m out. If you start over for the next batch of long range ish match with a 24” medium contour 1/11, what makes the most sense for this bolt gun?

 

[climbing1]

How long is your barrel? Also Tikka is known for slower barrels so that could be a factor as well.

It’s a 24, 1/11

 

[Rob01]

It’s a 24, 1/11

24” should get you to 2700fps+ pretty easy with a 178. I bet it’s the Tikka barrel.

To answer your question above, try the 168 ELD. You can get a little more speed, which is a little overrated for long range, and still have a good BC.

 

[climbing1]

24” should get you to 2700fps+ pretty easy with a 178. I bet it’s the Tikka barrel.

To answer your question above, try the 168 ELD. You can get a little more speed, which is a little overrated for long range, and still have a good BC.

Thank you, Rob!

 

[climbing1]

Trying to get to 2750 - 2800 with a 175-something bullet takes a powder that most folks don't use. H4895, N550, maybe Varget. RL17 and MR2000 might do it but they're temp sensitive. And you're going to need one of those really fast barrels like 357 Max has. In my experience I can push 178's up to those speeds but I get heavy bolt lift and lose accuracy. Because it's not an industrial wide speed for those bullet weights. Hence my post.

The industrial standard for 175gr class bullets has been 2600 for a long time. Regardless of BC improvements in 178 ELDMs and 177's. What we're talking about here is picking up 150fps in some margins. And then hoping thise loads are accurate.

Thank you, RJ!

 

[Old Corps 8541]

Trying to get to 2750 - 2800 with a 175-something bullet takes a powder that most folks don't use. H4895, N550, maybe Varget. RL17 and MR2000 might do it but they're temp sensitive. And you're going to need one of those really fast barrels like 357 Max has. In my experience I can push 178's up to those speeds but I get heavy bolt lift and lose accuracy. Because it's not an industrial wide speed for those bullet weights. Hence my post.

The industrial standard for 175gr class bullets has been 2600 for a long time. Regardless of BC improvements in 178 ELDMs and 177's. What we're talking about here is picking up 150fps in some margins. And then hoping thise loads are accurate.

And then hoping these loads are accurate. These are the key words in his post. I guess one can get 2800/2900 with the 175's and 178's by loading them as long as their chambers will allow and single shot loading them BUT what is the end result ? brass life is nil , wear and tear on the rifle and shooter not good , and you are probably not getting the accuracy you could be getting by loading them to 2600 (+-)

 

[Rob01]

There is no "industrial standard" for 175/178 loads. They are loaded to what makers feel is safe for any rifle it will go in from ARs to grandpa's old hunting rifle. Not because it's the best. The Hornady 178 BTHP Superformance ammo is 2810fps in my 20" rifle and very accurate. Guess they didn't hear about the standard. LOL

Handloaders can adjust their loaded ammo to what works in their rifle as they can change brass used, powder used, powder charge, OAL etc so no standard. You just need to find what works in the rifle and when working with a factory rifle it might be less than in a custom rifle with a better barrel. That's it. I don't push my 178 loads over 2800fps. If I get them in the 2720-2750fps area I am happy. I have found over the years it works well for me there for shooting it long range.

 

[Rob01]

Sure there is. In two different forms. SAAMI spec in chamber pressures articulated in published load data from manufacturers and the well established M118LR that has threads dedicated to copying it. I will concede that the 118LR load is antiquated as hell but AB39 doesn't exceed it in speed.

Isn't that superformances thing? Super fast loads? Hence the name? Using a proprietary powder that we can't access. If that's the example you have to use it kinda makes the point. What about the defacto FGMM 175gr load? What's the speed on that? Is that a standard for match 308?

This is like 6 Dasher in PRS. When it became big about 6 years ago in that sport, he overwhelming majority of shooters were shooting 105's over 2900fps. With modern actions and Lapua brass you can run that cartridge at 70,000 + PSI without heavy bolt lift. This is basically what you're advocating.

Yes that is what I was talking about in their keeping them lower. Not because it's the best in every rifle. Handloaders can tailor their loads to their rifles and not have to stay with factory ammo limitations. It's why most handload.

Yes it is and why the Superformance is not supposed to be shot through ARs etc but still shows that they can be faster and safe and accurate. Again no standard for handloaders. I can get my 20" rifle with Varget and 178s to get to 2675fps safely and accurate. In my 26" it's easy to get over 2700fps and be accurate with Varget which is all I use in my .308 and have for decades.

That is nothing what I am advocating so stop trying to put words in my mouth to back up your assumption on standards.

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

It's all about natural point of aim. Managing recoil is a fairly decent aspect as well. And certain guns shoot better or worse depending on how you load the bipods, shoot with a neutral grip and load, pull back into your shoulder with a reverse load on the bipod, etc. You lose all that nuance and agency as the shooter with the sex doll of a shooting rest.

It's also been demonstrated on this forum that measured velocities change when shooting prone vs sitting at a bench. How consistent is the lead sled backing the gun every shot and what could that be doing to your SDs?

What's the science behind this? I don't pull out the chrony often (only when doing initial ladder tests looking for pressure) and only do so on a bench so I've not had a chance to see this. In my mind, a set amount of powder will equal a set velocity in a given rifle. I'm not understanding how changing shooting position would change that.

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

I'm not a scientist so I won't pretend to explain scientifically. Frank Galli had videos on this site demonstrating it a couple of years ago. Probably has to do recoil management.

Gotcha. I'll do a search for those videos for sure. Honestly it sounds like another old myth.

 

[BCP]

I used to hotrod 308 but it’s not really necessary and calibers like 243 or 6.5cd can get you much more speed and higher BC with light recoil.

My 169smk load is 9.2 to hit steel silhouette at 1000 but then I’m at 5000 so its almost like cheating compared to sea level. The crazy fucking wind makes up for it though.

 

[Snuby642]

Would you share that 169 load. I'm working on one but couldn't shoot today my hand was too swollen with ra.

It's my sons rifle and does very good with 168's and varget.

 

[fxdrider]

This is with my 308 and my 223 bolt body. Tikka t3x action.

So this is happening with 2 different bolts? Am I reading that right?

 

[BCP]

Would you share that 169 load. I'm working on one but couldn't shoot today my hand was too swollen with ra.

It's my sons rifle and does very good with 168's and varget.

42.5 varg win brass 2.82 nominal (so they would fit in magazine). The top one is 1000 it took 9.2 to get on I think with 6.5 creedmoor it was 28min so about 8mils. Haven't chrono the 308 (going by drops it's 2600-2650) but the 6.5 was 143 ELD at 2750.

circles are 600, 750, 1000

 

[straightshooter1]

Would you share that 169 load. I'm working on one but couldn't shoot today my hand was too swollen with ra.

It's my sons rifle and does very good with 168's and varget.

These loads have worked well for me, but they my not work well in your particular gun:

43.2 grs IMR-4064 loaded with a COAL at 2.929 (MV: 2691 out of a 24" barrel)
43.5 grs H-4895 loaded with a COAL at 2.929 (MV: 2769 out of a 24" barrel)
41.1 grs AR-Comp loaded with a COAL at 2.928 (MV: 2701 out of a 26" barrel)

 

[Old Corps 8541]

These loads have worked well for me, but they my not work well in your particular gun:

43.2 grs IMR-4064 loaded with a COAL at 2.929 (MV: 2691 out of a 24" barrel)
43.5 grs H-4895 loaded with a COAL at 2.929 (MV: 2769 out of a 24" barrel)
41.1 grs AR-Comp loaded with a COAL at 2.928 (MV: 2701 out of a 26" barrel)

2.928 COAL ? Will they work in a mag. What Mag. and what weapon ??
Thank you

 

[straightshooter1]

2.928 COAL ? Will they work in a mag. What Mag. and what weapon ??
Thank you

Works in my Alpha mag (good up to 2.975) for my RPR. Am not sure they're made anymore, but there are others:

ARC MAG 10-ROUND 7.62×51 (308 WIN)

The ARC MAG 10-ROUND 7.62×51 (308 WIN), is a compact, double-stack, center-feed magazine that promotes exceptionally smooth and reliable feeding.

www.anarchyoutdoors.com

 

[BCP]

My 169gr load is 42.5gr H4895 @ 2.900". 2800fps out of a 24" Proof. AW mags in an AI. Lapua SRP brass.

I shot lots and lots of 41.5 H4895 LC brass 175smk 2.810" that powder is great in 308. The 169s fly flatter but they still get grabbed by the wind we had crazy gusts the other day from 5-25mph shit was all over the place.

 

[Rider47]

I'm helping a buddy gear up for precision reloading for his .308 Win, and would appreciate some guidance on which sizes of neck bushings he should order. (My .30 cal. bushings are for turned necks.) We are currently reloading Federal (FC) cases, but he will also be obtaining Lapua brass, which will likely have thicker neck brass. He would like to order three bushings, somewhat towards the looser seating tension range. Any help appreciated.

 

[Old Corps 8541]

I'm helping a buddy gear up for precision reloading for his .308 Win, and would appreciate some guidance on which sizes of neck bushings he should order. (My .30 cal. bushings are for turned necks.) We are currently reloading Federal (FC) cases, but he will also be obtaining Lapua brass, which will likely have thicker neck brass. He would like to order three bushings, somewhat towards the looser seating tension range. Any help appreciated.

What did you use to determine your bushing size's for your neck turned brass ?

 

[straightshooter1]

I'm helping a buddy gear up for precision reloading for his .308 Win, and would appreciate some guidance on which sizes of neck bushings he should order. (My .30 cal. bushings are for turned necks.) We are currently reloading Federal (FC) cases, but he will also be obtaining Lapua brass, which will likely have thicker neck brass. He would like to order three bushings, somewhat towards the looser seating tension range. Any help appreciated.

For all the .308 Federal brass that I've used have been thicker than my Lapua brass. Best course to take would be to measure the brass he has, then decide on which bushings to use to get the desired neck tension. Whether Federal or Lapua brass, there can be significant variations from one lot of brass to the next, which is one reason I like to turn my necks for my no-turn chambers. Of course, he can always get a set of bushings to handle the variances.

 

[Rider47]

I guess I did say "any help appreciated" so thank you to the above responders, but I'm looking for a number or numbers of the size(s) of neck bushing(s) used to neck size .308 Win necks (like .326" or .330"). Is there anyone in .308-land that knows the size of their neck resizing and/or neck resizing bushings?

 

[Rob01]

When I used Lapua brass I used a .335 or .336 bushing. Been a long time with Federal but .333 is sticking in my brain. The Winchester/Black Hills is a .331.

 

[Old Corps 8541]

Rimfire ? Are you saying that even FGMM brass is "pretty shitty" brass ?
" Because federal is pretty shitty brass"

 

[BCP]

I shoot lots of fc brass it’s good stuff for plinking and steel. Small base sized with expander ball turned down a little bit to not work the necks as much. Winchester commercial has been more accurate for me though.

 

[Rider47]

RimfireJ and Rob01 - thanks for the bushing values.
RimfireJ: I have found that the .30 cal. mandrels I have give more neck tension than I have found to be optimal. What is the diameter of the mandrel you use, and where is it from?

 

[357Max]

For 308W I just use a Mighty Armory FL die with button removed for everything. Followed with a 21st Century .3065 mandrel using Imperial dry neck lube (graphite). The mandrel actually mics out at .3061

I've been using the same method as above for 6.5C & 223 even though I've got Redding S dies. Seems like the easy button when dealing with a bunch of head stamps.

I do anneal each loading & I keep all like head stamps in batches. I'm sure this works the necks on some brass a little more than bushing would, but I've yet to split a neck before loosing the primer pocket.

Also agree that the Federal GM308 brass is softer & not as durable. Been using the Federal for AR loads. Aguila brass I just leave that shit at the range.
In the bolt gun I've been running RWS, Norma, & Lapua LRP. Have a batch of 220 x Ruag all prepped to try.

 

[FredHammer]

If your brass has been fired a lot without annealing it could be experiencing some spring back

Interesting observation on spring back too. Use a bushing and the spring back goes outwards. Use a mandrel and the spring back goes inwards...

 

[FredHammer]

Yes. I wouldn't confuse the accuracy of factory federal gold medal match ammo with a quality of the brass. Which is sounds like what you're getting at. I've gotten good accuracy out of some lower quality brass but it doesn't hold up. It's neck thickness is annoying. Primer pockets, loosen etc.

Dissecting 168FGMM to see what makes it tic I came upon three very consistent values of the ammo. Two of which direct measurements and the third some relative value. So, the CBTO and the shoulders were spot on with only .002" variance on the CBTO and .001 on the shoulders. The neck tension was LIGHT. This was a relative measurement because I loaded bullets to match the "smack out" by a kinetic bullet puller. FGMM factory bullets released with one smack of the puller. To match that first smack with reloads, in virgin brass, I had to be .001" possibly .0015" that's the relative measurement downfall, but either way works for the shit I do.

 

[Rider47]

I have been precision reloading for decades for a wide variety of cartridges and rifle platforms and have found in virually all cases precision has been maximized with minimal neck tension. I resize necks until the bullets can be moved by hand, then tighten up .001". This is enough even for gas guns. I also pay attention to the surface of the inside of the necks, cleaning them with a light rotating bronze brush, and have been experimenting with lanolin and moly coating of the inside of necks as well.

 

[FredHammer]

I have been precision reloading for decades for a wide variety of cartridges and rifle platforms and have found in virually all cases precision has been maximized with minimal neck tension. I resize necks until the bullets can be moved by hand, then tighten up .001". This is enough even for gas guns. I also pay attention to the surface of the inside of the necks, cleaning them with a light rotating bronze brush, and have been experimenting with lanolin and moly coating of the inside of necks as well.

You know what you're doing. I experimented with wet & dry case neck lube and found "wet" case lube opened up the groups. Dry graphite I couldn't see a just noticeable difference. I alcohol swab the fired necks to rid of any case lube from the mandrel and use the remaining fired residue for the cold weld preventative.

I recently saw an experiment where a guy made up his own test equipment and measure the force it took to release a bullet from the case neck using various neck tensions. .0005 still required 46ftlbs, .001-.002 required 140ftlbs with anything above .002 diminished returns. It was a very limited sample set IIRC. Still intriguing.

 

[Rob01]

I use .002" of neck tension for everything. Enough to make sure it doesn't move but not enough to effect accuracy. Works for me.

 

[357Max]

Started some load development on a few high BC 308W loads light/heavy, to see how they compare.

There's not a lot of data out there for either of these 2 powders in 308.

This was just trying to find powder charges.

Maybe @straightshooter1 would be willing to check these loads in Quick load for me.

For any one reading this. These loads were built in GRT for my barrel, brass, action. I have a lot off data with these powders that has been worked up to in my rifle. Do not assume these will be safe in your gun. GRT is often pretty far off in their speed predictions. Some hammer forged barrels (Tika/Ruger) are 150fps slower for same length & will pressure out much sooner.

They are all safe according to GRT in my rifle, but up near top end. That said GRT doesn't always agree with quick load from what I've seen.

26" PVA Osprey barrel 10T
Berger 200.2X (.328 G7) Bullet oal 1.508" all rounds loaded @ 2.960" oal/ 2.175" BTO using Hornady comparator. Jump was -.064
RWS 3 x fired LRP brass. Fired H20 avg 55.62 measured on FX120
GM215 magnum primers

Alliant RL15.5
42.1 - 2522 - SD 8.7
42.4 - 2532 - SD 4.4
42.7 - 2547 - SD 4.0 * Shot best .7 primer slightly flat/ no cratering & no other pressure signs. Seating depth @ this charge.

Per GRT I should be able to reach 2599 with RL15.5 at that load length.

Lever Evolution only shot 1 charge. Same brass & primer as above.
43.4 x 6 = 2560 - SD3.6 ES 9.1
No pressure signs with this load. Per GRT node #5 is 2618 & within pmax limit
re-shoot 43.4 with seating depth test.

For the lightweight high BC option.
Warner Flatline 160 (G7 .278) bullet oal 1.390" All rounds loaded 2.954" oal (-.018 jump) 2.243 BTO
Norma virgin brass. Once fired in this chamber H20 avg 55.89
GM215 Mag primers

Lever Evolution
47.4 - 3002 - SD 5.8 / .85" group / GRT prediction 2942fps with nodes at 2942 & 2989
47.8 - 3024 - SD 10.4 / .93" group
48.2 - 3055 - SD15.1/ group opened & showing pressure (flat primers). GRT prediction 2989

47.4 shot best & I'd like to stay under max pressure for Lever since it's more temp sensitive.

Will try seating depth test with these at 47.3gr @ -.020, -.040, -.060, & -.080

Attached is the Warner 160FL load data sheet. Lever is not on the list, but CFE223 is. IME lever is a little more forgiving on top end loads than CFE223. Lever usually gives a little more velocity, other wise they are similar.

It's also noteworthy that Lever, contrary to it's reputation, burns super clean in all the above 308 loads.

 

[straightshooter1]

Started some load development on a few high BC 308W loads light/heavy, to see how they compare.

There's not a lot of data out there for either of these 2 powders in 308.

This was just trying to find powder charges.

Maybe @straightshooter1 would be willing to check these loads in Quick load for me.

For any one reading this. These loads were built in GRT for my barrel, brass, action. I have a lot off data with these powders that has been worked up to in my rifle. Do not assume these will be safe in your gun. GRT is often pretty far off in their speed predictions. Some hammer forged barrels (Tika/Ruger) are 150fps slower for same length & will pressure out much sooner.

They are all safe according to GRT in my rifle, but up near top end. That said GRT doesn't always agree with quick load from what I've seen.

26" PVA Osprey barrel 10T
Berger 200.2X (.328 G7) Bullet oal 1.508" all rounds loaded @ 2.960" oal/ 2.175" BTO using Hornady comparator. Jump was -.064
RWS 3 x fired LRP brass. Fired H20 avg 55.62 measured on FX120
GM215 magnum primers

Alliant RL15.5
42.1 - 2522 - SD 8.7
42.4 - 2532 - SD 4.4
42.7 - 2547 - SD 4.0 * Shot best .7 primer slightly flat/ no cratering & no other pressure signs. Seating depth @ this charge.

Per GRT I should be able to reach 2599 with RL15.5 at that load length.

Lever Evolution only shot 1 charge. Same brass & primer as above.
43.4 x 6 = 2560 - SD3.6 ES 9.1
No pressure signs with this load. Per GRT node #5 is 2618 & within pmax limit
re-shoot 43.4 with seating depth test.

For the lightweight high BC option.
Warner Flatline 160 (G7 .278) bullet oal 1.390" All rounds loaded 2.954" oal (-.018 jump) 2.243 BTO
Norma virgin brass. Once fired in this chamber H20 avg 55.89
GM215 Mag primers

Lever Evolution
47.4 - 3002 - SD 5.8 / .85" group / GRT prediction 2942fps with nodes at 2942 & 2989
47.8 - 3024 - SD 10.4 / .93" group
48.2 - 3055 - SD15.1/ group opened & showing pressure (flat primers). GRT prediction 2989

47.4 shot best & I'd like to stay under max pressure for Lever since it's more temp sensitive.

Will try seating depth test with these at 47.3gr @ -.020, -.040, -.060, & -.080

Attached is the Warner 160FL load data sheet. Lever is not on the list, but CFE223 is. IME lever is a little more forgiving on top end loads than CFE223. Lever usually gives a little more velocity, other wise they are similar.

It's also noteworthy that Lever, contrary to it's reputation, burns super clean in all the above 308 loads.

Here you go . . . (note I used QL's default burn rate, but use temperature of 50°F to get the velocities you showed):