.308 Winchester

[RedKnight]

I appreciate your advice, Rimfire Jesus, but I'm trying to work through this method, identifying a node to start from. He advocates finding the node and starting at the middle of that node as that should give you the most forgiving load to maintain consistency from your reloads. That's where I start a seating depth test in .003" increments from jam -.005" to -.040".

I know everyone has their own methods, I was just testing this method out to see if it worked for me. I'm really in it to learn what I can from other people. If it doesn't work out, I'm more than happy to go back to the drawing board.

@BCP, yes, I was getting good groups with 41.5, but it was with large rifle primers as opposed to these CCI small rifle magnums in using now, I'm not sure how much of a difference that really makes, though. Are you suggesting 42.5-43 based on matching (sort of) vertical spread? That's what I started thinking should be the node to go from.

Thanks everyone

 

[JR1200W3]

I appreciate your advice, Rimfire Jesus, but I'm trying to work through this method, identifying a node to start from. He advocates finding the node and starting at the middle of that node as that should give you the most forgiving load to maintain consistency from your reloads. That's where I start a seating depth test in .003" increments from jam -.005" to -.040".

I know everyone has their own methods, I was just testing this method out to see if it worked for me. I'm really in it to learn what I can from other people. If it doesn't work out, I'm more than happy to go back to the drawing board.

@BCP, yes, I was getting good groups with 41.5, but it was with large rifle primers as opposed to these CCI small rifle magnums in using now, I'm not sure how much of a difference that really makes, though. Are you suggesting 42.5-43 based on matching (sort of) vertical spread? That's what I started thinking should be the node to go from.

Thanks everyone

Half the world doesn't believe powder/ velocity nodes exist. So you could be on to something or you could be wasting components and barrel. But either way, 3rd groups and velocity nodes are probably going to have you chasing your tail for a while. It's going to be like watching 50 raccoons fighting in a trashcan through a soda straw. Too much chaos with too small a vantage point to make sense of whats going on.

 

[Rob01]

The ELDs aren't very jump sensitive. I would not even think about .003" and go to .010" differences in doing a seating test.

 

[wvfarrier]

There is a really good thread on the LRH website on maximizing 308

 

[xsn10s]

I appreciate your advice, Rimfire Jesus, but I'm trying to work through this method, identifying a node to start from. He advocates finding the node and starting at the middle of that node as that should give you the most forgiving load to maintain consistency from your reloads. That's where I start a seating depth test in .003" increments from jam -.005" to -.040".

I know everyone has their own methods, I was just testing this method out to see if it worked for me. I'm really in it to learn what I can from other people. If it doesn't work out, I'm more than happy to go back to the drawing board.

@BCP, yes, I was getting good groups with 41.5, but it was with large rifle primers as opposed to these CCI small rifle magnums in using now, I'm not sure how much of a difference that really makes, though. Are you suggesting 42.5-43 based on matching (sort of) vertical spread? That's what I started thinking should be the node to go from.

Thanks everyone

I was going to say ditch the lead sled and try the 43.0 and 43.5 gr IMR 4064 load again. I had better luck with Fed 210's or 210M's while using IMR 4064. But if you're switching to SRP then I'd say you're changing too many variables to fine tune your loads. IMO I'd go back and reshoot the 43.0 gr-43.5 gr loads on sandbags or a decent front rest and rear bag. Or if you have some Fed 210's start with the 41.5 gr load and work back up.

 

[RedKnight]

Half the world doesn't believe powder/ velocity nodes exist. So you could be on to something or you could be wasting components and barrel. But either way, 3rd groups and velocity nodes are probably going to have you chasing your tail for a while. It's going to be like watching 50 raccoons fighting in a trashcan through a soda straw. Too much chaos with too small a vantage point to make sense of whats going on.

Rofl, that just might be the case. I certainly didn't do it this way to find the round using LRPs, but then people were telling me I got lucky doing it that way. I'm not going to repeat the whole test if it doesn't work, that's for sure.

@Rob01 Thanks for that info, I'll keep that in mind!

@xsn10s Maybe a miscommunication, so I apologize. I'm not using ANY data from my LRP rounds. I've started from scratch to work witht he SRPs. So the only variable changing is the charge weights. I'm not going back and forth with brass or primers.

I get the consensus is to drop the lead sled, which I'll do. Can someone explain how the POI differs from shoulder/rear bags? Does the lead sled affect barrel harmonics (No, I'm not resting the barrel on the rest...lol) How I was using the lead sled was resting the forend on the front rest, and resting the rifle stock on my hand to fine tune my point of aim, similar (I thought) to squeezing a rear bag.

 

[xsn10s]

I get the consensus is to drop the lead sled, which I'll do. Can someone explain how the POI differs from shoulder/rear bags? Does the lead sled affect barrel harmonics (No, I'm not resting the barrel on the rest...lol) How I was using the lead sled was resting the forend on the front rest, and resting the rifle stock on my hand to fine tune my point of aim, similar (I thought) to squeezing a rear bag.

It really depends on the lead sled and how it's used. It sounds like you might not be allowing the lead sled to have as much influence or detachment from the shooter as others. IMO the rifle was designed to shoot from a person so it properly held it's more consistent than off a sled. As far as the SRP sorry I misunderstood you. I think if you go back fire those loads I mentioned it might help. Also depending on the range that 41.5 gr load might be just fine. I suggest shooting those loads out to the max distance you want to use them and look at the results.

 

[JR1200W3]

It's all about natural point of aim. Managing recoil is a fairly decent aspect as well. And certain guns shoot better or worse depending on how you load the bipods, shoot with a neutral grip and load, pull back into your shoulder with a reverse load on the bipod, etc. You lose all that nuance and agency as the shooter with the sex doll of a shooting rest.

It's also been demonstrated on this forum that measured velocities change when shooting prone vs sitting at a bench. How consistent is the lead sled backing the gun every shot and what could that be doing to your SDs?

 

[45-90]

I have never used a lead sled, and rarely shoot off a bench, once in the last 40 yrs...pretty rare.
I shoot from prone & shooting mat, with bipod or front rest along with a rear bag. Mostly get on the ARs with hard firm hold, into the shoulder, maybe a lesser extent with bolts...maybe. Use the same hold for everything from 17 Remington to 50 BMG.

 

[RedKnight]

It's all about natural point of aim. Managing recoil is a fairly decent aspect as well. And certain guns shoot better or worse depending on how you load the bipods, shoot with a neutral grip and load, pull back into your shoulder with a reverse load on the bipod, etc. You lose all that nuance and agency as the shooter with the sex doll of a shooting rest.

It's also been demonstrated on this forum that measured velocities change when shooting prone vs sitting at a bench. How consistent is the lead sled backing the gun every shot and what could that be doing to your SDs?

I see, so just shoot how you're going to shoot. I guess I thought a lead sled would take out my user error.

I understood that my setup needed to be as close to exact as I could, so I had drawn circles around the feet of the lead sled to return it if it moved. What you're saying makes sense, though, now that I think about it, because I would find I might need to raise or lower the front rest just a tad between some shots.

I also don't have a great bipod, so I guess I'll have to look into that

 

[xsn10s]

I see, so just shoot how you're going to shoot. I guess I thought a lead sled would take out my user error.

I understood that my setup needed to be as close to exact as I could, so I had drawn circles around the feet of the lead sled to return it if it moved. What you're saying makes sense, though, now that I think about it, because I would find I might need to raise or lower the front rest just a tad between some shots.

I also don't have a great bipod, so I guess I'll have to look into that

There's nothing wrong with shooting from the bench while doing load development. Heck if all you want to do is shoot from the bench that's perfectly fine. I shoot from the bench using a bipod and rear bag when during load development. Sand bags or a good Eagle front rest is my preferred method. After that it's mostly field positions in tall grass where prone isn't practical most of the time.

 

[JR1200W3]

I see, so just shoot how you're going to shoot. I guess I thought a lead sled would take out my user error.

I understood that my setup needed to be as close to exact as I could, so I had drawn circles around the feet of the lead sled to return it if it moved. What you're saying makes sense, though, now that I think about it, because I would find I might need to raise or lower the front rest just a tad between some shots.

I also don't have a great bipod, so I guess I'll have to look into that

Pls also ensure your bipod attaches to your rifle securely. People like to fun on Harris bipods but if you have a solid attachment to your gun they provide a great rest. And back the butt end with a heavy schmedium game changer. You can shoot fantastic groups this way

 

[Snuby642]

The old lead sled I have somware around was purchased when I got a Winchester featherweight in 270.

It was a bitch on my skinny shoulder. A nice decelerator pad helped that.

Then I started to use it to get the scope close and fine tune from the shoulder.

I found my poi would shift with / without the sled.

I don't buy pencil barrels anymore and use brakes for help with recoil.

There is a wild possibility my recoil management has gotten better but still prefer bag to a bipod (frustrating).

 

[climbing1]

This is prob mentioned somewhere so apologies, I’m on my phone. Newish to reloading and worked up 39 through 42 varget on 178 ELDM’s. I grouped best at 42. Hornady considers it hot at 42.4. At 42 I’m getting about a 2400 average. Can I push this at all safely? Yes, I get it; Hornady publishes X numbers for a reason, but I venture to guess they really error on the low side to not subject themselves to liability. I’ve read a few ppl going up to 45 no problems, but wanted to get input. Tikka UPR 24” barrel. Thx

 

[Rob01]

This is prob mentioned somewhere so apologies, I’m on my phone. Newish to reloading and worked up 39 through 42 varget on 178 ELDM’s. I grouped best at 42. Hornady considers it hot at 42.4. At 42 I’m getting about a 2400 average. Can I push this at all safely? Yes, I get it; Hornady publishes X numbers for a reason, but I venture to guess they really error on the low side to not subject themselves to liability. I’ve read a few ppl going up to 45 no problems, but wanted to get input. Tikka UPR 24” barrel. Thx

Hodgdon says 45grns for 175/178 when using Win brass so depends on the brass you use and your rifle if you can go up from 42 or not.

That said I start at 43grns personally when loading Varget and the 168/178 weight bullets even in Lapua/Hornady brass.

 

[climbing1]

Hodgdon says 45grns for 175/178 when using Win brass so depends on the brass you use and your rifle if you can go up from 42 or not.

That said I start at 43grns personally when loading Varget and the 168/178 weight bullets even in Lapua/Hornady brass.

What I’m using is a bunch of LC military brass I got for free and Federal Gold Medal. All once fired brass. So if I’m understanding correctly, it’s contingent on wall thickness? Try 43 and maybe go up until I start seeing pressure signs? Thanks for the quick reply, Rob!

 

[JR1200W3]

LC is thicker than Winchester

 

[Rob01]

What I’m using is a bunch of LC military brass I got for free and Federal Gold Medal. All once fired brass. So if I’m understanding correctly, it’s contingent on wall thickness? Try 43 and maybe go up until I start seeing pressure signs? Thanks for the quick reply, Rob!

LC brass is usually on the small side for internal capacity so I’d work up slowly from the 42 mark.

And yeah it’s wall thickness which effects internal capacity. The Winchester brass is usually thinner and a larger internal capacity.

 

[OkieMike]

I believe the "rule of thumb" for loading Lake City brass is to basically subtract 2 grains from Hodgdon's listed max charge... If Hodgdon lists 45 gr MAX then with Lake City you're probably going to max out around 43 give or take.

There is 20-30 grains difference in weight between Winchester brass and Lake City brass. Whereas there is only 5-7 grains difference between Federal and Lake City brass... At least that is what I have observed.

If you're loading Lake City brass with Hodgdon load data start at minimum and work up. It'll ll save you some trouble. Been there, done that.

And if you're loading for an AR-10 or M1A/M14, use Hodgdon's .308 service rifle data. They use Winchester brass for that too... So if you're using Lake City brass... Again reduce your max charges by about 2 grains.

Mike

 

[BCP]

This is prob mentioned somewhere so apologies, I’m on my phone. Newish to reloading and worked up 39 through 42 varget on 178 ELDM’s. I grouped best at 42. Hornady considers it hot at 42.4. At 42 I’m getting about a 2400 average. Can I push this at all safely? Yes, I get it; Hornady publishes X numbers for a reason, but I venture to guess they really error on the low side to not subject themselves to liability. I’ve read a few ppl going up to 45 no problems, but wanted to get input. Tikka UPR 24” barrel. Thx

43gr Varg LC or FC brass 175smk 2.810" was my load

My load workup with 178eld would be 2.83 and start around 41.5, 41.8 and go to 43max

 

[Old Corps 8541]

"Tikka UPR" , I know you can load your rounds to a little longer AOL in your Tikka Mag. And the 178 ELD M is a very long bullet that even at Tikka's OAL you still have a lot of bullet below the case / neck junction, So , my question is WHY the 187 ELD-M ???

 

[JR1200W3]

IMO the 308W really comes alive when you step away from the 175gr class of bullets.

 

[357Max]

IMO the 308W really comes alive when you step away from the 175gr class of bullets.

The 177SMK is in a different league vs. 175’s. Depends on the speed you can get with heavies. At 2750 the 177’s do very well.

 

[climbing1]

"Tikka UPR" , I know you can load your rounds to a little longer AOL in your Tikka Mag. And the 178 ELD M is a very long bullet that even at Tikka's OAL you still have a lot of bullet below the case / neck junction, So , my question is WHY the 187 ELD-M ???

Sorry, I don't fully understand your question... As mentioned, I'm newish to reloading.

The 178's I got a great deal on and read a lot of people were happy with that particular round in .308. I have 500 of them, so I'm going to make it work . FWIW, at 42 I'm getting more consistent groups than I did with quality factory ammo, so for me as a reload newb, it's a win.

Based on your last question, what is it you're suggesting I should do? Get some 168's next time because I can burn more powder with a longer OAL because "Tikka?" Thanks

 

[climbing1]

IMO the 308W really comes alive when you step away from the 175gr class of bullets.

By going up or down?

 

[JR1200W3]

By going up or down?

Both. Depending on how you configure your rifle. 16" Large Frame AR? 130 - 155gr, 20" lightweight hunting rifle? 130 - 165gr, 20" precision bolt gun? 155-169gr, long heavy competition rifle? 185 Juggernauts. I'm shooting 169SMKs at 2820 out of a 24" AI AT.

I shoot 125gr FMJs for AR matches out of my 16" AR. 130 Barnes TTSX for hunting, and 155 SMK Palmas for 600yd matches with it.

Shooting 175gr bullets at 2600 is 3-slow-8.

 

[JR1200W3]

The 177SMK is in a different league vs. 175’s. Depends on the speed you can get with heavies. At 2750 the 177’s do very well.

Crushing brass like souls

 

[357Max]

Crushing brass like souls

RWS & Norma having no issues after 450rnds. 4 firings only so far. 26” barrel + slowish for caliber powder = Happy brass.

 

[Rob01]

By going up or down?

It depends on use. If shooting Tac Division in PRS then the 178 is the max weight and 2800fps is the max velocity so why most competing stay under it. If no limitations then look for decent BC and accuracy in the rifle. And stating a generic weight is also not really giving the right picture either as bullets have evolved since the old 175 SMK so being in that weight is not a bad place to be now. 168-178 is my range with a .308.

 

[climbing1]

It depends on use. If shooting Tac Division in PRS then the 178 is the max weight and 2800fps is the max velocity so why most competing stay under it. If no limitations then look for decent BC and accuracy in the rifle. And stating a generic weight is also not really giving the right picture either as bullets have evolved since the old 175 SMK so being in that weight is not a bad place to be now. 168-178 is my range with a .308.

Super helpful, thanks.

So to get 2800, which was what I was after (more velocity) I need to switch powders or use a greater brass capacity, such as Winchester? Because I’m at 42gr at 2400 ish pushing the 178 ELDM. Appreciate the help.

 

[Rob01]

How long is your barrel? Also Tikka is known for slower barrels so that could be a factor as well.

 

[climbing1]

Both. Depending on how you configure your rifle. 16" Large Frame AR? 130 - 155gr, 20" lightweight hunting rifle? 130 - 165gr, 20" precision bolt gun? 155-169gr, long heavy competition rifle? 185 Juggernauts. I'm shooting 169SMKs at 2820 out of a 24" AI AT.

I shoot 125gr FMJs for AR matches out of my 16" AR. 130 Barnes TTSX for hunting, and 155 SMK Palmas for 600yd matches with it.

Shooting 175gr bullets at 2600 is 3-slow-8.

You guys are above my pay grade so let me ask it like this: I’m gonna shoot these 178’s until I’m out. If you start over for the next batch of long range ish match with a 24” medium contour 1/11, what makes the most sense for this bolt gun?

 

[climbing1]

How long is your barrel? Also Tikka is known for slower barrels so that could be a factor as well.

It’s a 24, 1/11

 

[JR1200W3]

Trying to get to 2750 - 2800 with a 175-something bullet takes a powder that most folks don't use. H4895, N550, maybe Varget. RL17 and MR2000 might do it but they're temp sensitive. And you're going to need one of those really fast barrels like 357 Max has. In my experience I can push 178's up to those speeds but I get heavy bolt lift and lose accuracy. Because it's not an industrial wide speed for those bullet weights. Hence my post.

The industrial standard for 175gr class bullets has been 2600 for a long time. Regardless of BC improvements in 178 ELDMs and 177's. What we're talking about here is picking up 150fps in some margins. And then hoping thise loads are accurate.

 

[Rob01]

It’s a 24, 1/11

24” should get you to 2700fps+ pretty easy with a 178. I bet it’s the Tikka barrel.

To answer your question above, try the 168 ELD. You can get a little more speed, which is a little overrated for long range, and still have a good BC.

 

[climbing1]

24” should get you to 2700fps+ pretty easy with a 178. I bet it’s the Tikka barrel.

To answer your question above, try the 168 ELD. You can get a little more speed, which is a little overrated for long range, and still have a good BC.

Thank you, Rob!

 

[climbing1]

Trying to get to 2750 - 2800 with a 175-something bullet takes a powder that most folks don't use. H4895, N550, maybe Varget. RL17 and MR2000 might do it but they're temp sensitive. And you're going to need one of those really fast barrels like 357 Max has. In my experience I can push 178's up to those speeds but I get heavy bolt lift and lose accuracy. Because it's not an industrial wide speed for those bullet weights. Hence my post.

The industrial standard for 175gr class bullets has been 2600 for a long time. Regardless of BC improvements in 178 ELDMs and 177's. What we're talking about here is picking up 150fps in some margins. And then hoping thise loads are accurate.

Thank you, RJ!

 

[Old Corps 8541]

Trying to get to 2750 - 2800 with a 175-something bullet takes a powder that most folks don't use. H4895, N550, maybe Varget. RL17 and MR2000 might do it but they're temp sensitive. And you're going to need one of those really fast barrels like 357 Max has. In my experience I can push 178's up to those speeds but I get heavy bolt lift and lose accuracy. Because it's not an industrial wide speed for those bullet weights. Hence my post.

The industrial standard for 175gr class bullets has been 2600 for a long time. Regardless of BC improvements in 178 ELDMs and 177's. What we're talking about here is picking up 150fps in some margins. And then hoping thise loads are accurate.

And then hoping these loads are accurate. These are the key words in his post. I guess one can get 2800/2900 with the 175's and 178's by loading them as long as their chambers will allow and single shot loading them BUT what is the end result ? brass life is nil , wear and tear on the rifle and shooter not good , and you are probably not getting the accuracy you could be getting by loading them to 2600 (+-)

 

[Rob01]

There is no "industrial standard" for 175/178 loads. They are loaded to what makers feel is safe for any rifle it will go in from ARs to grandpa's old hunting rifle. Not because it's the best. The Hornady 178 BTHP Superformance ammo is 2810fps in my 20" rifle and very accurate. Guess they didn't hear about the standard. LOL

Handloaders can adjust their loaded ammo to what works in their rifle as they can change brass used, powder used, powder charge, OAL etc so no standard. You just need to find what works in the rifle and when working with a factory rifle it might be less than in a custom rifle with a better barrel. That's it. I don't push my 178 loads over 2800fps. If I get them in the 2720-2750fps area I am happy. I have found over the years it works well for me there for shooting it long range.

 

[JR1200W3]

There is no "industrial standard" for 175/178 loads. They are loaded to what makers feel is safe for any rifle it will go in from ARs to grandpa's old hunting rifle.

Sure there is. In two different forms. SAAMI spec in chamber pressures articulated in published load data from manufacturers and the well established M118LR that has threads dedicated to copying it. I will concede that the 118LR load is antiquated as hell but AB39 doesn't exceed it in speed.

Isn't that superformances thing? Super fast loads? Hence the name? Using a proprietary powder that we can't access. If that's the example you have to use it kinda makes the point. What about the defacto FGMM 175gr load? What's the speed on that? Is that a standard for match 308?

This is like 6 Dasher in PRS. When it became big about 6 years ago in that sport, he overwhelming majority of shooters were shooting 105's over 2900fps. With modern actions and Lapua brass you can run that cartridge at 70,000 + PSI without heavy bolt lift. This is basically what you're advocating.

 

[Rob01]

Sure there is. In two different forms. SAAMI spec in chamber pressures articulated in published load data from manufacturers and the well established M118LR that has threads dedicated to copying it. I will concede that the 118LR load is antiquated as hell but AB39 doesn't exceed it in speed.

Isn't that superformances thing? Super fast loads? Hence the name? Using a proprietary powder that we can't access. If that's the example you have to use it kinda makes the point. What about the defacto FGMM 175gr load? What's the speed on that? Is that a standard for match 308?

This is like 6 Dasher in PRS. When it became big about 6 years ago in that sport, he overwhelming majority of shooters were shooting 105's over 2900fps. With modern actions and Lapua brass you can run that cartridge at 70,000 + PSI without heavy bolt lift. This is basically what you're advocating.

Yes that is what I was talking about in their keeping them lower. Not because it's the best in every rifle. Handloaders can tailor their loads to their rifles and not have to stay with factory ammo limitations. It's why most handload.

Yes it is and why the Superformance is not supposed to be shot through ARs etc but still shows that they can be faster and safe and accurate. Again no standard for handloaders. I can get my 20" rifle with Varget and 178s to get to 2675fps safely and accurate. In my 26" it's easy to get over 2700fps and be accurate with Varget which is all I use in my .308 and have for decades.

That is nothing what I am advocating so stop trying to put words in my mouth to back up your assumption on standards.

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

It's all about natural point of aim. Managing recoil is a fairly decent aspect as well. And certain guns shoot better or worse depending on how you load the bipods, shoot with a neutral grip and load, pull back into your shoulder with a reverse load on the bipod, etc. You lose all that nuance and agency as the shooter with the sex doll of a shooting rest.

It's also been demonstrated on this forum that measured velocities change when shooting prone vs sitting at a bench. How consistent is the lead sled backing the gun every shot and what could that be doing to your SDs?

What's the science behind this? I don't pull out the chrony often (only when doing initial ladder tests looking for pressure) and only do so on a bench so I've not had a chance to see this. In my mind, a set amount of powder will equal a set velocity in a given rifle. I'm not understanding how changing shooting position would change that.

 

[JR1200W3]

What's the science behind this? I don't pull out the chrony often (only when doing initial ladder tests looking for pressure) and only do so on a bench so I've not had a chance to see this. In my mind, a set amount of powder will equal a set velocity in a given rifle. I'm not understanding how changing shooting position would change that.

I'm not a scientist so I won't pretend to explain scientifically. Frank Galli had videos on this site demonstrating it a couple of years ago. Probably has to do recoil management.

 

[AirgunnerPCP]

I'm not a scientist so I won't pretend to explain scientifically. Frank Galli had videos on this site demonstrating it a couple of years ago. Probably has to do recoil management.

Gotcha. I'll do a search for those videos for sure. Honestly it sounds like another old myth.

 

[BCP]

I used to hotrod 308 but it’s not really necessary and calibers like 243 or 6.5cd can get you much more speed and higher BC with light recoil.

My 169smk load is 9.2 to hit steel silhouette at 1000 but then I’m at 5000 so its almost like cheating compared to sea level. The crazy fucking wind makes up for it though.

 

[Snuby642]

Would you share that 169 load. I'm working on one but couldn't shoot today my hand was too swollen with ra.

It's my sons rifle and does very good with 168's and varget.

 

[fxdrider]

This is with my 308 and my 223 bolt body. Tikka t3x action.

So this is happening with 2 different bolts? Am I reading that right?

 

[BCP]

Would you share that 169 load. I'm working on one but couldn't shoot today my hand was too swollen with ra.

It's my sons rifle and does very good with 168's and varget.

42.5 varg win brass 2.82 nominal (so they would fit in magazine). The top one is 1000 it took 9.2 to get on I think with 6.5 creedmoor it was 28min so about 8mils. Haven't chrono the 308 (going by drops it's 2600-2650) but the 6.5 was 143 ELD at 2750.

circles are 600, 750, 1000

 

[straightshooter1]

Would you share that 169 load. I'm working on one but couldn't shoot today my hand was too swollen with ra.

It's my sons rifle and does very good with 168's and varget.

These loads have worked well for me, but they my not work well in your particular gun:

43.2 grs IMR-4064 loaded with a COAL at 2.929 (MV: 2691 out of a 24" barrel)
43.5 grs H-4895 loaded with a COAL at 2.929 (MV: 2769 out of a 24" barrel)
41.1 grs AR-Comp loaded with a COAL at 2.928 (MV: 2701 out of a 26" barrel)

 

[Old Corps 8541]

These loads have worked well for me, but they my not work well in your particular gun:

43.2 grs IMR-4064 loaded with a COAL at 2.929 (MV: 2691 out of a 24" barrel)
43.5 grs H-4895 loaded with a COAL at 2.929 (MV: 2769 out of a 24" barrel)
41.1 grs AR-Comp loaded with a COAL at 2.928 (MV: 2701 out of a 26" barrel)

2.928 COAL ? Will they work in a mag. What Mag. and what weapon ??
Thank you