Need to have good environmental info for any ballistic program for it to work well. I use Hornady 4DOF now and put in the correct data as well.
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.308 Winchester
- Thread starter Two Shoes
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Need to have good environmental info for any ballistic program for it to work well. I use Hornady 4DOF now and put in the correct data as well.
Not surprising. I'm new here, but everywhere I've been on the internet regarding firearms, there seems to be 0 leniency or courtesy. I expect the same here.
Not sure where you have been but we are pretty lenient here and give warnings if someone does something they shouldn't be like putting for sale ads anywhere but the PX and not being a supporter or WTB ads other places but the PX. Those are two of the big ones but as long as you are not being an ass in tech forums or any hate speech in the Bear Pit you should be fine.
Understood. I had an experience elsewhere, where I and several others were quite literally professionally scammed (someone using a fake ID and a VPN to hide their IP address). And the admin restricted my access for reporting him and said for me to work on it by myself and to stop bothering other people with it. I told him I was trying to warn others so they didn't get scammed. I'm a bit leary of forums right now lol. I appreciate your explanation. Thanks.
We have had a bunch of scammers with a new method of copying sellers profiles and then changing the name with a period after or before or making letters look the same. The key to seeing it is they are not supporters and they have 0 posts. Also do not post "I'll take it" in a for sale post as that is scammer chum. Just PM the seller.
So I've noticed....I reported this guy on fb and paypal. He sent me a message saying that his paypal was blocked, so he is retaliating against me by using my fb and all of the information I sent him to steal my identity and start scamming other people using my likeness. This happened yesterday. Reported to the police and signed up for identity theft insurance lol.
Hello all, I have a quick question hopefully someone could help me with. I just recently received an order from Creedmoor Sports for these bullets, (.308 169gr. SMK). From what I've read, I was expecting the O.A.L. to be longer than the measurement I am getting of 1.140. Does this seem correct or do I have incorrect bullets?
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Wrong bullet I suspect. I just checked and got @ 1.3" on a loose 169smk...
Well, I just weighed it, my scale is reading 155gr.
I'll call them this week, probably have to wait until Tuesday because of the Monday holiday? Thanks again everyone, and post a reply after I talk to them.
You should weigh them to see if they're actually the 169 SMK's or the 168 SMK's. That 1.140 OAL is what my 168 SMK's tend to be. I've got ~2,000 rounds of 169 SMK's from a couple different lots and they measure from 1.296 to 1.316.
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Rob01 also suggested I weigh them and a few post up I responded that they weigh 155gr. If in fact they even are Sierra bullets, then the Sierra website has two options in .308 that weigh 155gr. One is HPBT and the other is a HPBT-Palma. I would need to call Sierra or unless possibly someone in the know, could post the differences between these two projectile specs?
Well I went to the match. While I was not competitive with the top shooters, the 12 degree temps and twitchy winds created issues for everyone. I only managed 7 hits on 40 tries. The top three scores (guys shooting much more dedicated guns and vastly more experience and way younger were 24, 22 and 18 hits) there were a handful who shot worse than me and despite a 7, I was only 3 points out of third so it was a rough match. The 308 was ballistically correct as with the low temps I calculated 10.2 mils, when it warmed to 18, I dropped out 2 tenths. Dug dirt all around the target but my 66 yo eyes just couldn't make the correction. Thanks for all your help guys.
Yep, checked also on digital calipers and had same the measurement. I did weigh them and they actually weigh 155gr., not the 169gr. that they should. And by no means are these insulting questions.
Well just wanted to give an update. Firstly I want thank you to everyone for there input and suggestions and helping me figure this out. After talking to Creedmore Sports we figured out the box was mislabeled and I was sent a box of 155gr.SMK's #2155 instead the 169gr.SMK's that I ordered. When I called them they had great customers service and are resending the correct bullets out asap.
They do. There was the 'original 155gn Sierra MatchKing 'Palma', aka model # 2155, for a very long time. Decent enough bullet, but had the BC of a whiffle-ball and the general tug-boat shape (short-n-stubby) like the S168MK. Didn't have the f'd up boat-tail angle of the 168, though. IIRC (this part is before my time) the bullet was brought out for the 1992 World LR championships for the US Palma team, as that was (I believe) the first time where the competing countries were able to use their own ammo at international events - previously everybody shot ammo provided by the host country.
Eventually, when Berger moved up from a small boutique bullet maker to something more serious, and first got Litz involved (way back when, before anyone had ever heard of him) they (Berger) came out with a 155.5gn 'Fullbore' bullet. Couldn't call it 'Palma', because Sierra had the trademark on that name locked up tight. But the 155.5 aka 'Triple Nickel' had a *very* long and sleek nose cone, and a *very* short bearing surface. Very successful bullet, right out of the gate. The US FTR rifle team used them pretty successfully at the 2009 F-Class World Championship in England, and the 2011 Creedmoor Cup in Ireland.
Why is that relevant? Because eventually even the sling shooters started realizing that using the good ol' Sierra 2155 was like leaving points on the table, given the difference in BC. After some pressure from the US Palma rifle team, Sierra rolled out the 2156 design - which looked *very* much like the B155.5BT, with the addition of being factory pointed. They didn't completely get rid of the 2155 - it was still a good, if dated, design and met a lot of people's needs. But the crown jewel 'Palma' designation got rolled to the 2156 instead. If you ever see either of these listed with the 'C' designation, that's just the bulk pack i.e. 500 count box vs. 100.
The S169MK looks like (haven't had any in hand yet) someone went back and updated the S168MK to the standards of the 2156 design. In my opinion.
Probably more than you wanted to know, but there you have it.
Wow memilanuk, thanks, that was a very good and interesting read. Now I know.
I have both bullets and have began the begining load development and look forward to testing them both (155 and the 169's. I'll post my results when I do. Now you have intrigued me to seek some of the #2156's also to try. This all being pretty new to me, I have only shot the 168gr. and 175gr. SMK's, with results I have been very pleased with.
I just bought 2000 small rifle primers at Sportsmans Warehouse 2 days ago. It was $8.49 per box of 100. No limit in store (Charleston SC area).
Ruag #5341 Large Rifle Primers Box of 1000
Limit 2 per customer, per order, per daywww.powdervalley.com
Both have worked well for me. They're not interchangeable as the Accurate is a faster burning powder and I've gotten more velocity with more case fill without over pressure. So, if you're trying to get more velocity out of that 20" barrel, I'd suggest the Accurate 4064. I think IMR-4064 is a little more temperature stable, but I haven't notice that to be much of an issue.
Im sitting on 6lbs of Accurate that I got during covid, usually I use 4064 so Im keen to hear your results!
For my ACC 4064, I loaded 45.0 grs to push 168 SMK's with a COAL of 2.880, which for my chamber was at .007 off the lands. Initial 5 rounds I got a group of .295 MOA and a Group Mean of .143". MV: 2748 fps with an ES: 30, SD: 14.7, ambient temperature at 51°F. With 30 rounds fired and chronoed, group of .525 MOA and Group Mean of .230 with an MV: 2717 fps with an ES: 30, SD: 8.6. ambient temperature at 47°F.
This is out of an RPR with a 26" Krieger heavy barrel.
I have an old box which is probably 10 years old that is 1.203-1.215
Don’t know if you can decipher the lot number or date of mfg.
I just happened to crack it open yesterday.
Others on this forum have found the same length as me.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/bullet-length-168-smk-vs-175-smk.6985397/post-8288596
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Good info, but I believe he was asking about the new S169MK, not the old S168MK. And if you read on, he actually received a box of 155s.
CCI 400s have a softer cup, Ive never used them in 308, I'm sure they would work fine but if you were running a hotter load they may start showing pressure signs sooner than other primers. Id go 450s or whatever other brand of mag primers you can find.
CCI 400's have worked well for me in my .308, though I've not done any shooting below 45°F. I've used the 450's some too, but don't find any need to. If one is shooting in really cold temperatures, I'd go with the 450's.
Thanks,
I saw that he received 155gr SMK's but I must have been half asleep because I failed to notice that it was 169gr SMK's and not 168gr SMK's.
I wasn't even aware that 169gr SMK's existed.
I typically use CCI BR-4 or Federal Gold Medal GM205M
Anyone with pet loads for the older 155 sierra palmas? I found some at a local gun store for 12$ a box. Have fc and winchester brass, varget, h4895, imr 4320 powders.
The 169s exist and they are magical, like a 175smk but fly better in the wind. Was comparing them to 175noslers which are dogshit imho too much weight and length variations. The nosler 1sts are almost as good as sierra 2nds.
The 169s exist and they are magical, like a 175smk but fly better in the wind. Was comparing them to 175noslers which are dogshit imho too much weight and length variations. The nosler 1sts are almost as good as sierra 2nds.
Nope check weights to see if they are consistent? The nosier custom comp 175 I had were almost a grain up and down.
Agree.
Now you gotta try the 177 SMK's
Wanted to try those when midway had them as seconds, that was how I got the 169s, they sold out quick though.
My 175 midway seconds are 1/2-3/4 MOA which is good on steel if the wind cooperates:
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Winchester brass and Varget are a very good combination with those bullets. 46-47 gn was a pretty common competitive load, running 2950-3000+ fps from a 30" Palma barrel.
A lot depends on what you have for a chamber - short throated, like the '95 Palma (0.050" FB), or a little longer, like the Obermeyer or others. And what kind of land/groove diameter - back in that bullet's hey-day, stupidly tight bores - like .298/.304 - were fairly common in Palma rifles. That was more a legacy thing from back when the actual Palma matches were shot using issue ammo, provided by the host country - and the shite Radway-Green bullets that the UK used were almost criminally undersized. Krieger made tighter bores specifically for that reason, so they really cemented their spot in LR target shooting for a long damn time. Also held back the use of heavy bullets for quite a while, because it's pretty hard to ram-rod a heavy (with the long-ass bearing surface designs of the time) through that small of a hole without hitting pressure fast and hard.
If you have a relatively modern chamber design, and can seat the bullets out a tad, plus having a more reasonable land/groove diameter like .304/.307... the bullets will still shoot very, very well, but you may find you can reach that magic 2900-3k speed with a much shorter barrel. Still going to take an ass-load of powder to do it, though.
46gr of Varget has done well for me. 2750 out of a 20"
Not beating a dead bush. But with the 169gr and 177gr smk,174gr eld vt, 176gr A tip. Might be a few others as well. Can the 308 be used in PRS and have any gains using these new bullets over using the tried and true 168gr or 175gr ? 26" 10 twist 90 freebore chamber. Prs limits 2800 fps and 178gr.
I answered you at Accurate Shooter but again yes all those bullets are better for TAC division in PRS than the 168 or 175 SMK. All have much higher BCs and will be pushed less by the wind.
Some in your post over there do not understand PRS and it's use of the .308 and TAC but you will get better info here.
My 169smk load was hardly a fast mover and it flew great. Had to add about a 1/2mil elevation when I switched to 175smk at 2600fps and the wind grabs the 175s more at 1000 vs the 169s.
Here’s a video 308 cranking out using Alpha brass up to over 96,000 psi a great video that tells you that looking at the brass and primers are not good ways to determine if somethings over pressured
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