.308 Winchester

[Rob01]

Personally can't see much point in loading anything heavier than 178 gr. in a .308 . Yet I'm not ringing steel at 1200 + yd. either ,so as the saying goes whatever floats one's boat . IF I go for REAL distance for intended purpose , I step up to My 285 gr. .338 LM load .

150, 155, 165,168 and occasionally ELD 178's , feed My 7.62x51mm weapons . IMO 30-06 has it's chamber full with flinging 220 gr. bullets .

Yup I agree. I use the 178 max in my .308s also. You can reach out pretty far even with those with the newer bullets. I have shot the 168 ELD-Ms to 1250 yards in matches. Farther for fun. I just got some 176 ATips I will be working up a load for in a new barrel I got. It's a 28" 10 twist so should be able to get them to good speed and reach out there.

That said if others want to load heavies then have fun.

 

[Ex E6]

Yup I agree. I use the 178 max in my .308s also. You can reach out pretty far even with those with the newer bullets. I have shot the 168 ELD-Ms to 1250 yards in matches. Farther for fun. I just got some 176 ATips I will be working up a load for in a new barrel I got. It's a 28" 10 twist so should be able to get them to good speed and reach out there.

That said if others want to load heavies then have fun.

At 3/4 of a century MY eyes aren't what they once were and neither is anything else for that matter . I still ring steel occasionally at 1177 yd. ( the farthest MY personal range allows ) . Which is actually longer than our clubs range which is 1K yd. limit ,yet we have 100- 800 yd. in 100-200 yd. increments ,as well as a drive-able access road . Mine becomes dicey in the winter and strictly Off Road .

Accuracy for ME , is 165, 278 340 and 635 Yards ,as I have target sheds established in which I can place paper targets in . That way I can record loads as to accuracy to particular weapons .

 

[TDWilson]

Yes, might be a little bit slow but it's precise and works great on dear and hogs from 30m to 200m. That's my normal shooting distances here in Germany.

Will change to CX 150grains bullets next year. Will be interesting to see how they perform.

I am *very* interested in the CX 150 for a hunting load. Please, circle back and tell us what you have learned!

 

[TangoRomeo7688]

I am *very* interested in the CX 150 for a hunting load. Please, circle back and tell us what you have learned!

I will post an update when tests are done, if possible.

Missed the deadline to continue my permission for reloading, and now the LUA makes me some trouble. At the moment they are not willing to give me a new permission.

 

[Slides]

Trying to work out what may ir may not worth with 174-178gr Hornady projectiles.

I will be running 2208 (Varget), 2209 (H4350) powders for 6 NBR and 6.5cm anyway, but I'm curious, the ADI and hogdon websites only list down to 2208/Varget loads in these bullet weights, but they are fastest for pressure, has anyone run 2209/H4350 in ~178gr bullet weights successfully? I'm curious if it may match or slightly exceed the 2208 for velocity or if you run out of case capacity first.

 

[Old Corps 8541]

Slides,
Never tried H 4350 in a 308 , mainly because I load to 2.80 (+-) "Mag length" . You might see how long you can seat a 178 HP and still chamber the round. That would require single shot reloading though.
Hornady lists Power Pro 2000 MR, along with AA TAC & 2520, as well as WW 748 at 2500 FPS **
You might read the 308 AR section here , as there are several members that list loads, mainly with Varget and the 178 BTHP.
As others have stated here , with the offerings of the ; 168 ELD-M, the 168 TMK and the 169 SMK's with their higher BC might be the way to go IF you are wanting to shoot long distances.
It might help if you told us your intended goals.
** Not sure what powders or their "down under" twins are available to you

 

[BCP]

Trying to work out what may ir may not worth with 174-178gr Hornady projectiles.

I will be running 2208 (Varget), 2209 (H4350) powders for 6 NBR and 6.5cm anyway, but I'm curious, the ADI and hogdon websites only list down to 2208/Varget loads in these bullet weights, but they are fastest for pressure, has anyone run 2209/H4350 in ~178gr bullet weights successfully? I'm curious if it may match or slightly exceed the 2208 for velocity or if you run out of case capacity first.

Varget for 308

H4350 is too slow, save it for 6-6.5mm

 

[Ex E6]

I should guess Aussie's have access to ADI ,Hodgdon and VV for sure . I've been through the ADI facilities , decades ago .

Reference : H4350 is ADI AR2209 . Used to be a land owner between Glen Innes and Grafton ,spent a fair amount of time down under ( Before the greenies Ruined it ) . Split most of my off hours between Coffs Harbor and Byron Bay aka as Surfers Paradise . Timber purveyor back in them days .

 

[BCP]

h4895 (adi 2206?) is another. It’s great for 308 about 41.5-42 with 175smk.

 

[Ex E6]

Just found this on the net , I'd never even considered looking before now .

http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/powder-equivalents/

 

[Slides]

Yes it's a good chart, I will stick with ADI (Sold as Hogdon in US) unless nothing works well. Looks like the 2208 is the sensible choice, I think I have a preference for more case fill/slower powder for load generally unless there is a consensus of just use this one as per varget/2208 in BR and 2209 in 6.5cm.

12 twist 26 inch heavy varmint, shooting Sporter/FTR to 900 yards and maybe the odd pig/goat/fox. I bought a heap of ADI loaded with sierra 168s but they don't keep up with the newer ballistic tip stuff. I have some 178ELDX but may try the new 174ELD-VT Ledzep suggested they will stabilise in the 12 under normal conditions. It's still very difficult to get any popular Berger or Sierra bullets here, Hornady is reasonable supply wise. If I get real serious about FTR I will run Atips.

 

[AZAmerican]

I'm helping a buddy gear up for precision reloading for his .308 Win, and would appreciate some guidance on which sizes of neck bushings he should order. (My .30 cal. bushings are for turned necks.) We are currently reloading Federal (FC) cases, but he will also be obtaining Lapua brass, which will likely have thicker neck brass. He would like to order three bushings, somewhat towards the looser seating tension range. Any help appreciated.

My Lapua brass neck outside diameter loaded is .337. I use a Redding .335 and .334 bushing. That measurement is only for Lapua as the neck thickness of the brass is different for other manufacturers.

 

[JeffreyD]

Back again with another question. I am competing in a 1000 yard 1MOA prone match next week...my first....with my 26" 308. Using info from this site my load development ended up with Nosler case, 43.5 Varget, 178 ELDX at 2720 fps and SD of 7.3. My question is that my AB shows a elevation of 9.7 mils. Most other comments I see are in the 11 to 12 mil range. I have tested the load to 448 yards (2.4 mil) but don't want to show up as the new guy 2 or 3 mil low. Velocity is with Magnetospeed V3. Oh, 100 yard five shot group.

 

[37L1]

Back again with another question. I am competing in a 1000 yard 1MOA prone match next week...my first....with my 26" 308. Using info from this site my load development ended up with Nosler case, 43.5 Varget, 178 ELDX at 2720 fps and SD of 7.3. My question is that my AB shows a elevation of 9.7 mils. Most other comments I see are in the 11 to 12 mil range. I have tested the load to 448 yards (2.4 mil) but don't want to show up as the new guy 2 or 3 mil low. Velocity is with Magnetospeed V3. Oh, 100 yard five shot group.

You get sighters?

If so, split the difference and be high, go from there.

No one cares about your target except you, the pit puller and scorer.

 

[JeffreyD]

You get sighters?

If so, split the difference and be high, go from there.

No one cares about your target except you, the pit puller and scorer.

Therein lies the rub. No sightseers and on a 10 inch steel plate. As it is a "fun match" fashioned after the recent YouTube Texas 1000 yard 1moa challenge, I am not too concerned, but want to show up prepared.

 

[BCP]

Back again with another question. I am competing in a 1000 yard 1MOA prone match next week...my first....with my 26" 308. Using info from this site my load development ended up with Nosler case, 43.5 Varget, 178 ELDX at 2720 fps and SD of 7.3. My question is that my AB shows a elevation of 9.7 mils. Most other comments I see are in the 11 to 12 mil range. I have tested the load to 448 yards (2.4 mil) but don't want to show up as the new guy 2 or 3 mil low. Velocity is with Magnetospeed V3. Oh, 100 yard five shot group.

9.5mils sounds about right. My 18" was 12 and it was 200fps slower.

 

[JeffreyD]

9.5mils sounds about right. My 18" was 12 and it was 200fps slower.

That makes me feel a bit better. Thanks

 

[Ex E6]

Therein lies the rub. No sightseers and on a 10 inch steel plate. As it is a "fun match" fashioned after the recent YouTube Texas 1000 yard 1moa challenge, I am not too concerned, but want to show up prepared.

Not being a smart ass but showing up and Not have shot your load at 1K Yd. isn't being prepared , JMO no offense .

 

[JeffreyD]

Not being a smart ass but showing up and Not have shot your load at 1K Yd. isn't being prepared , JMO no offense .

Interesting view. Guess that means that a person who doesn't have access to a 1k range except for a match shouldn't show up? Fortunately for me, the organizers are encouraging newbies. No offense taken.

 

[Ex E6]

Interesting view. Guess that means that a person who doesn't have access to a 1k range except for a match shouldn't show up? Fortunately for me, the organizers are encouraging newbies. No offense taken.

None taken . There is NO where You are able to fire 1K yd. ? . What about where the match is too be held ?

 

[37L1]

Interesting view. Guess that means that a person who doesn't have access to a 1k range except for a match shouldn't show up? Fortunately for me, the organizers are encouraging newbies. No offense taken.

At least show up with a fouled barrel.

 

[DstRflMn645]

If you know the actual velocity and BC, JBM will get you on paper at 1K, I've done it many times

John

 

[JeffreyD]

I cleaned and foiled my barrel, dope is good to 500. The 1k range is restricted to ROs and matched. I have my request in to become a 1k range RO, but not happening before the match.

 

[Rob01]

If you know the actual velocity and BC, JBM will get you on paper at 1K, I've done it many times

John

Exactly. I have too and had to do that years back when i only had a 400 yard range and going to matches that shot out to 1000+. Today you get really close with good numbers and a good ballistic program. Actually shooting at 1000is nice but not needed.

 

[JeffreyD]

I will report back on my success or failure. Supposed to be in the teens for the match. Thank you for a the advice and critique. I am going to try my first PRS match next month, so hoping this will deliver some good data.

 

[DstRflMn645]

If you’re going to use JBM don’t forget to put in the atmospheric data, it affects elevation.

John

 

[JeffreyD]

I am still running Strelok Pro and AB is installed on my Vortex binos. Both gather and apply weather. I noticed significant variations when applying weather. Thanks.

 

[Rob01]

If you’re going to use JBM don’t forget to put in the atmospheric data, it affects elevation.

John

Need to have good environmental info for any ballistic program for it to work well. I use Hornady 4DOF now and put in the correct data as well.

 

[Roblj4]

Scheels.

The mods will let you know with prejudice

Not surprising. I'm new here, but everywhere I've been on the internet regarding firearms, there seems to be 0 leniency or courtesy. I expect the same here.

 

[Rob01]

Not surprising. I'm new here, but everywhere I've been on the internet regarding firearms, there seems to be 0 leniency or courtesy. I expect the same here.

Not sure where you have been but we are pretty lenient here and give warnings if someone does something they shouldn't be like putting for sale ads anywhere but the PX and not being a supporter or WTB ads other places but the PX. Those are two of the big ones but as long as you are not being an ass in tech forums or any hate speech in the Bear Pit you should be fine.

 

[Roblj4]

Not sure where you have been but we are pretty lenient here and give warnings if someone does something they shouldn't be like putting for sale ads anywhere but the PX and not being a supporter or WTB ads other places but the PX. Those are two of the big ones but as long as you are not being an ass in tech forums or any hate speech in the Bear Pit you should be fine.

Understood. I had an experience elsewhere, where I and several others were quite literally professionally scammed (someone using a fake ID and a VPN to hide their IP address). And the admin restricted my access for reporting him and said for me to work on it by myself and to stop bothering other people with it. I told him I was trying to warn others so they didn't get scammed. I'm a bit leary of forums right now lol. I appreciate your explanation. Thanks.

 

[Rob01]

Understood. I had an experience elsewhere, where I and several others were quite literally professionally scammed (someone using a fake ID and a VPN to hide their IP address). And the admin restricted my access for reporting him and said for me to work on it by myself and to stop bothering other people with it. I told him I was trying to warn others so they didn't get scammed. I'm a bit leary of forums right now lol. I appreciate your explanation. Thanks.

We have had a bunch of scammers with a new method of copying sellers profiles and then changing the name with a period after or before or making letters look the same. The key to seeing it is they are not supporters and they have 0 posts. Also do not post "I'll take it" in a for sale post as that is scammer chum. Just PM the seller.

 

[Roblj4]

We have had a bunch of scammers with a new method of copying sellers profiles and then changing the name with a period after or before or making letters look the same. The key to seeing it is they are not supporters and they have 0 posts. Also do not post "I'll take it" in a for sale post as that is scammer chum. Just PM the seller.

So I've noticed....I reported this guy on fb and paypal. He sent me a message saying that his paypal was blocked, so he is retaliating against me by using my fb and all of the information I sent him to steal my identity and start scamming other people using my likeness. This happened yesterday. Reported to the police and signed up for identity theft insurance lol.

 

[Okee]

Hello all, I have a quick question hopefully someone could help me with. I just recently received an order from Creedmoor Sports for these bullets, (.308 169gr. SMK). From what I've read, I was expecting the O.A.L. to be longer than the measurement I am getting of 1.140. Does this seem correct or do I have incorrect bullets?

 

[StrayDog]

Hello all, I have a quick question hopefully someone could help me with. I just recently received an order from Creedmoor Sports for these bullets, (.308 169gr. SMK). From what I've read, I was expecting the O.A.L. to be longer than the measurement I am getting of 1.140. Does this seem correct or do I have incorrect bullets?

Wrong bullet I suspect. I just checked and got @ 1.3" on a loose 169smk...

 

[Okee]

Thank you StrayDog, that's what I suspected.☹

 

[Rob01]

That kind of looks like a 168. What’s it weigh?

 

[357Max]

Thank you StrayDog, that's what I suspected.☹

Yup, 1.305" for my batch of 169.

 

[Okee]

That kind of looks like a 168. What’s it weigh?

Well, I just weighed it, my scale is reading 155gr. I'll call them this week, probably have to wait until Tuesday because of the Monday holiday? Thanks again everyone, and post a reply after I talk to them.

 

[DstRflMn645]

That's what I have been getting with my 169’s, between 1.29-1.30

 

[Okee]

That's what I have been getting with my 169’s, between 1.29-1.30

I guess I'll have to call Sierra first?

 

[straightshooter1]

Hello all, I have a quick question hopefully someone could help me with. I just recently received an order from Creedmoor Sports for these bullets, (.308 169gr. SMK). From what I've read, I was expecting the O.A.L. to be longer than the measurement I am getting of 1.140. Does this seem correct or do I have incorrect bullets?

You should weigh them to see if they're actually the 169 SMK's or the 168 SMK's. That 1.140 OAL is what my 168 SMK's tend to be. I've got ~2,000 rounds of 169 SMK's from a couple different lots and they measure from 1.296 to 1.316.

 

[Okee]

You should weigh them to see if they're actually the 169 SMK's or the 169 SMK's. That 1.140 OAL is what my 168 SMK's tend to be. I've got ~2,000 rounds of 169 SMK's from a couple different lots and they measure from 1.296 to 1.316.

Rob01 also suggested I weigh them and a few post up I responded that they weigh 155gr. If in fact they even are Sierra bullets, then the Sierra website has two options in .308 that weigh 155gr. One is HPBT and the other is a HPBT-Palma. I would need to call Sierra or unless possibly someone in the know, could post the differences between these two projectile specs?

 

[JeffreyD]

I will report back on my success or failure. Supposed to be in the teens for the match. Thank you for a the advice and critique. I am going to try my first PRS match next month, so hoping this will deliver some good data.

Well I went to the match. While I was not competitive with the top shooters, the 12 degree temps and twitchy winds created issues for everyone. I only managed 7 hits on 40 tries. The top three scores (guys shooting much more dedicated guns and vastly more experience and way younger were 24, 22 and 18 hits) there were a handful who shot worse than me and despite a 7, I was only 3 points out of third so it was a rough match. The 308 was ballistically correct as with the low temps I calculated 10.2 mils, when it warmed to 18, I dropped out 2 tenths. Dug dirt all around the target but my 66 yo eyes just couldn't make the correction. Thanks for all your help guys.

 

[Rider47]

Check the zero on your caliper??? Looks like it's showing more than 1.14" on the ruler portion.
Did you weigh them?
(Apologies if these are insulting questions.)

 

[Okee]

Check the zero on your caliper??? Looks like it's showing more than 1.14" on the ruler portion.
Did you weigh them?
(Apologies if these are insulting questions.)

Yep, checked also on digital calipers and had same the measurement. I did weigh them and they actually weigh 155gr., not the 169gr. that they should. And by no means are these insulting questions.

 

[Okee]

Hello all, I have a quick question hopefully someone could help me with. I just recently received an order from Creedmoor Sports for these bullets, (.308 169gr. SMK). From what I've read, I was expecting the O.A.L. to be longer than the measurement I am getting of 1.140. Does this seem correct or do I have incorrect bullets?

Well just wanted to give an update. Firstly I want thank you to everyone for there input and suggestions and helping me figure this out. After talking to Creedmore Sports we figured out the box was mislabeled and I was sent a box of 155gr.SMK's #2155 instead the 169gr.SMK's that I ordered. When I called them they had great customers service and are resending the correct bullets out asap.

 

[memilanuk]

Rob01 also suggested I weigh them and a few post up I responded that they weigh 155gr. If in fact they even are Sierra bullets, then the Sierra website has two options in .308 that weigh 155gr. One is HPBT and the other is a HPBT-Palma. I would need to call Sierra or unless possibly someone in the know, could post the differences between these two projectile specs?

They do. There was the 'original 155gn Sierra MatchKing 'Palma', aka model # 2155, for a very long time. Decent enough bullet, but had the BC of a whiffle-ball and the general tug-boat shape (short-n-stubby) like the S168MK. Didn't have the f'd up boat-tail angle of the 168, though. IIRC (this part is before my time) the bullet was brought out for the 1992 World LR championships for the US Palma team, as that was (I believe) the first time where the competing countries were able to use their own ammo at international events - previously everybody shot ammo provided by the host country.

Eventually, when Berger moved up from a small boutique bullet maker to something more serious, and first got Litz involved (way back when, before anyone had ever heard of him) they (Berger) came out with a 155.5gn 'Fullbore' bullet. Couldn't call it 'Palma', because Sierra had the trademark on that name locked up tight. But the 155.5 aka 'Triple Nickel' had a *very* long and sleek nose cone, and a *very* short bearing surface. Very successful bullet, right out of the gate. The US FTR rifle team used them pretty successfully at the 2009 F-Class World Championship in England, and the 2011 Creedmoor Cup in Ireland.

Why is that relevant? Because eventually even the sling shooters started realizing that using the good ol' Sierra 2155 was like leaving points on the table, given the difference in BC. After some pressure from the US Palma rifle team, Sierra rolled out the 2156 design - which looked *very* much like the B155.5BT, with the addition of being factory pointed. They didn't completely get rid of the 2155 - it was still a good, if dated, design and met a lot of people's needs. But the crown jewel 'Palma' designation got rolled to the 2156 instead. If you ever see either of these listed with the 'C' designation, that's just the bulk pack i.e. 500 count box vs. 100.

The S169MK looks like (haven't had any in hand yet) someone went back and updated the S168MK to the standards of the 2156 design. In my opinion.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but there you have it.

 

[Okee]

They do. There was the 'original 155gn Sierra MatchKing 'Palma', aka model # 2155, for a very long time. Decent enough bullet, but had the BC of a whiffle-ball and the general tug-boat shape (short-n-stubby) like the S168MK. Didn't have the f'd up boat-tail angle of the 168, though. IIRC (this part is before my time) the bullet was brought out for the 1992 World LR championships for the US Palma team, as that was (I believe) the first time where the competing countries were able to use their own ammo at international events - previously everybody shot ammo provided by the host country.

Eventually, when Berger moved up from a small boutique bullet maker to something more serious, and first got Litz involved (way back when, before anyone had ever heard of him) they (Berger) came out with a 155.5gn 'Fullbore' bullet. Couldn't call it 'Palma', because Sierra had the trademark on that name locked up tight. But the 155.5 aka 'Triple Nickel' had a *very* long and sleek nose cone, and a *very* short bearing surface. Very successful bullet, right out of the gate. The US FTR rifle team used them pretty successfully at the 2009 F-Class World Championship in England, and the 2011 Creedmoor Cup in Ireland.

Why is that relevant? Because eventually even the sling shooters started realizing that using the good ol' Sierra 2155 was like leaving points on the table, given the difference in BC. After some pressure from the US Palma rifle team, Sierra rolled out the 2156 design - which looked *very* much like the B155.5BT, with the addition of being factory pointed. They didn't completely get rid of the 2155 - it was still a good, if dated, design and met a lot of people's needs. But the crown jewel 'Palma' designation got rolled to the 2156 instead. If you ever see either of these listed with the 'C' designation, that's just the bulk pack i.e. 500 count box vs. 100.

The S169MK looks like (haven't had any in hand yet) someone went back and updated the S168MK to the standards of the 2156 design. In my opinion.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but there you have it.

Wow memilanuk, thanks, that was a very good and interesting read. Now I know. I have both bullets and have began the begining load development and look forward to testing them both (155 and the 169's. I'll post my results when I do. Now you have intrigued me to seek some of the #2156's also to try. This all being pretty new to me, I have only shot the 168gr. and 175gr. SMK's, with results I have been very pleased with.

 

[Sanwizard]

Ruag #5341 Large Rifle Primers Box of 1000

Limit 2 per customer, per order, per day

www.powdervalley.com

I just bought 2000 small rifle primers at Sportsmans Warehouse 2 days ago. It was $8.49 per box of 100. No limit in store (Charleston SC area).