Indeed…I received a letter in the mail last week from the attorneys handling the bankruptcy with a motion to convert chapter 7 to chapter 11. I’m assuming I got the letter because RCC took my money but didn’t ever deliver the product.
The 400 Warlord has much more capacity than the 375 mercenary so it has adequate volume to push the heavy 408 bullets as far as the story of RCC it's not surprising there is a rumor that the company will survive but all of that is to be seen. I would not be surprised if machine brass will not be available at some date by others that may go down that rabbit hole.
We saw quite a bit of this going on for quite some time people had paid orders that were made that were well over a year old and somehow in some way people got orders for product filled as they were somehow more important. Mismanagement is a strange thing sometimes there's no Rhyme or Reason
Yeah I have to drop the 375 Merc project now since I got no brass to work with... However, is there anywhere I can get the 400 Warlord's die, brass, and reamer? And what action does it take? Does it still use 375 cheytac bolt face and action? Thanks!
Just out of curiosity what brass did you order? And RCC is the one that released 7mm PRC? or are they just "making" the brass so they claim? Anyway I'll just treat it like my money thrown into the sea, I hope I can find another brass company that can offer wildcats though....
Your shit out of luck on the warlord as well because it was also RCC. I am the one that makes the dies however I don't think that I will be making it anytime soon since RCC is gone. As far as the mercenary you can still make it from Bertram 585 nyatti. Express. If you have forming dies. The warlord however is 3.6 inches long so you're out of luck and yes both the mercenary and warlord require a cheytac action
www.pacermonitor.com
Both the mercenary and warlord were no longer proprietary they were released to the public. Unfortunately Bertram screwed up an opportunity on the mercenary and the. warlord we'll just most likely fade away due to the RCC issue. Very sad deal because both of them are phenomenal performance-based cartridges that in their class nothing even closely compares
Interesting. How about a method three. A company I worked for had WWII era multi-spindle screw machines that were solely used during that time to make brass cases for the war effort. Granted it takes skilled machinists to keep screw machines running, but I have yet to see a CNC match the productivity of a screw machine. Depending on the size of the case, a 9mm would have roughly a 4-5sec cycle time per case, while a larger cheytac sized case would be 1min tops. Probably less than that. Deep draw is more expensive an operation to set up than screw machines, screw machines have much higher tooling and maintenance costs. I think we both agree that CNC's aren't the right machines for this work............
Method two is a fully machined cartridge. Not really an option. Look into it and tell me even a CNC turning center can turn out an affordable case even with reclaiming the brass swarf and making your own bar stock. Ever investigate continuous cast processes for, well, any metal? Yeah, in short, unless someone wants to turn a small fortune into an even smaller fortune this isn't happening.
Just for those that didn't know, it's not a trivial thing
I actually approached peterson and was in conversations with them on the mercenary on behalf of swamplord before the enabelr ever existed they wanted 18,000 for setup fees and a minimum order of 3000 pieces on top of the 18,000 even though the mercenary was public at the time and full market and prophet's would have went to them .
Cnc is a cheaper investment then swiss screw mechines by far but swiss screw mechines are way faster and hold better tollerances. But need way better straighter and stress free bar stock. Or your finished product sucks. By the way Rcc was using 2 swiss mechines before they shut down. But yes old tech screw or and or turrent mechine would be the way to go. Thats what i have used in the past for manufactoring prototype cases. And dimond inserts all but eliminate tool ware adjustments. About .0005 ware on 10,000 plus passes on most copper/ brass alloys
The brass suppliers of that company I worked for had to start importing their bar stock when the covid panic hit. Fun times trying to get banana shaped bars loaded into the machines.
Well what else can I say... Fuck me I guess... But thank you for all the info provided! It is impressive how many wildcats and ideas you guys can produce and they perform! Well, then how about 375/BMG? that's basically a BMG necked down to take 375 right? I guess is not good since I see no one is using it.
Yeah I did use credit card and I have put it on dispute but I have little hope
375 bmg is too over bore and cant use the capacity same with 375 barrett . Pressure limits issue and extraction issues . A shortened barrett would work but why. When you can build a hellfire ( cheytac cylinder ) or you could get the 585 aferican basic brass from bertram and neck it to what ever you want
Affordable is the operative word in kopcicle's post. Conventional turning centers are too low of volume/too slow for a business to make any real profit off of brass cases.
Yes I know, I've jumped the part of affordability. But I related to my previous message, would it be technically possible? Fully CNC machined brass sleeves. Including the inner shoulder and neck. No press, no drawing, no dies for forming etc.
You did miss somthing the entire case is made on cnc including neck and shoulder just not how you think.
We ain't done hijacking just yet. As you saw, CNC Swiss machines. But yes, it is possible for a CNC lathe to turn a case as well, just it isn't the most productive machine to do the job with. A single turret CNC lathe would turn the case profile, drill/ream the large ID for the powder column; special tooling would need to made, but it can also profile the case ID as well if so desired, drill the flash hole, cut off the nearly finished case, then either be reprogrammed and set up again to face the back and drill & ream primer pocket. Or have a 2nd CNC lathe on hand for the 2nd op. Modern turning centers usually have a 2nd turret and a tailstock capable of being set up with a mandrel, so the entire case can be machined with one program. Still not as efficient as a Swiss. Swiss machines are not the fastest way to produce cases, but they are efficient at what they do and hold tolerances better than almost every other method currently out there. Screw machines come in two flavors, Swiss as shown above and spindle automatics, which have a turret with multiple spindles that advance from one tool station to the next.
You asked the same question that most mechine companies also asked how can this be done its not possable . But it is the entire case is made on the lathe column neck and shoulder many companies have tried to figure this out And cant . Lol cylinders are easy. Shouldered cases are a whole different story . Hell some companies like lapua cant even make the 6mm ppc on conventional draw presses yet Rcc can mechine them.
Thank you, I've done some research and I think I'm gonna build a 375 hellfire instead, 416 hellfire sounds awesome too but unfortunately I have my barrel ordered already.
For radical designs, integrity, consistency. Absolutely it is the way to go but it is by no means efficient or cost-effective or profitable unless you charge some insane price. With set up times cycle times and run times you're looking at approximately 100 BMG size cases in an 8 hour day. It is by no means efficient method of mass production. From non standardize non-parent case design it is about the only cost-effective method of prototyping testing and getting some pieces in hand.
I am not sure it will get that far. it will most likly re open after the smoke clears .
Is the 18k a one time tooling charge or is it every time you want a batch done?
The 18000 is a one time tooling fee and a minimum first time order of 10,500 so basically to even get some brass in hand you're looking at $28,500. The same thing from Bertram is about 40,000 this is why making new designs is so appealing from the lathe turned aspect because you're looking at somewhere around 250 bucks for a design fee and $50 for a test sample pieces then after that it's simply how many pieces you want to order at X price. You can order a lot of pieces of lathe turn cases for $18,000
I have the same hopes been waiting on brass to for a 400 warlord everything else has been obtained
The 375 Hellfire performs very well, but it is a hot rod, I shot the end of 2019 , all of 2020 and all of the 2021 season with the 375 Hellfire. As much as I love the cartridge, if you're concerned about barrel life I'd look at something a little slower. I averaged 450-600 rounds of match barrel life if I didn't push it hard and bumped up to the 416 Hellfire this year with great results .
Thank you for your info! I would have gone for 416 hellfire but I’ve ordered the barrel when RCC went broke so I don’t really have another option, or else I would have the ordered the barrel for nothing
Dies are not a problem. My self and or warner can make them. Cartridge can be formed from 585
Well I think it’s dead if you check our previous posts… unless you can find someone that can custom your brass with a brass drawing or else I would say good luck
When there is a will there is a way . Can from from bertram 585 nyatti express or peterson enabelr cylinder brass. .
Thanks for the reply!
Not having shot the 375 merc, I can't say much about it, the 375 Hellfire I have more rounds downrange than probably anyone on the planet. Brass is available, dies are available through Warner or a few other sources and the performance is awesome. If you're interested in chambering one let me know, as far as I know the only 375 Hellfire reamer in north America to date is the one I own. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.
Barrel life for caliber (bore diamiter) would be close to the same. mercenary might be a little worse sence it is slightly greater capacity. By about 10 grains. But the hellfire would be easier to do sence brass is easier to get
Oh I thought they had the same capacity but I guess merc just fatter. Anyway, now I’m curious are there other 416 cal nice performing rounds out there that uses cheytac bolt face other than 416 hellfire?
