Started out looking at the 10mm for a woods defense gun. Then came across the 460 Rowland. Seems like it's a pretty good cartridge. Anybody have experience with it? Is it as powerful as they say - on par with the 44 mag? What platform do you use for it? I'm thinking the Glock 21 or FNH FNX-45 would be a good choice.
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Sidearms & Scatterguns 460 Rowland vs 10mm Woods Defense
- Thread starter treillw
- Start date
I have a Glock 40 running hot 10mm, 180gr 1300 fps, I also have the FNX 45 tac with the 460 Rowland. I just shot the fnx with the 460 rowland yesterday.
Initial impressions, it shoots completely flat, with my RMR I can easily and consistently hit a torso size steel at 100 yds without bracing the pistol. It was fun to shoot and the accuracy was amazing. My RMR was still sighted in for 45acp at 40ft. It makes huge craters in the dirt and slams that steel. It is very impressive. The extended cases makes chambering the round a little finiky, sometimes the first round would not go in completely, wiggle the slide and good to go. This is with factory loads., all subsequent rounds in each mag fed without issue.
I haven't done enough testing for reliability. I plan on making my own 185, I found the COAL on my dummy rounds made a big difference with chambering, basically go long as you can and still fit them in the mag, I have not shot any of them yet.
I would go 460 over 10mm any day, I was actually consider selling my 10mm. The 460 was amazing. I need further testing on reliability to make a full recommendation
Initial impressions, it shoots completely flat, with my RMR I can easily and consistently hit a torso size steel at 100 yds without bracing the pistol. It was fun to shoot and the accuracy was amazing. My RMR was still sighted in for 45acp at 40ft. It makes huge craters in the dirt and slams that steel. It is very impressive. The extended cases makes chambering the round a little finiky, sometimes the first round would not go in completely, wiggle the slide and good to go. This is with factory loads., all subsequent rounds in each mag fed without issue.
I haven't done enough testing for reliability. I plan on making my own 185, I found the COAL on my dummy rounds made a big difference with chambering, basically go long as you can and still fit them in the mag, I have not shot any of them yet.
I would go 460 over 10mm any day, I was actually consider selling my 10mm. The 460 was amazing. I need further testing on reliability to make a full recommendation
I wouldn't go 10mm, but I have no experience with the 460, sorry. I always thought it looked interesting.
The best option that I have found is a full size or larger HK USP in 45acp. From the factory, it is built to handle 45 Super. It functions perfectly with it, is very accurate, hits like a good .44, and the gun itself, though not classy like a 29 or 1911, is really purpose built for the field. Lightweight, high capacity, extremely reliable and accurate. Large controls and a large trigger guard make cold weather, gloved use easy. The trigger options are excellent, and the safety is a plus, imo. Several companies make good 45 Super ammo, plus 45acp is always an option for city use or low cost, low recoil practice.
The best option that I have found is a full size or larger HK USP in 45acp. From the factory, it is built to handle 45 Super. It functions perfectly with it, is very accurate, hits like a good .44, and the gun itself, though not classy like a 29 or 1911, is really purpose built for the field. Lightweight, high capacity, extremely reliable and accurate. Large controls and a large trigger guard make cold weather, gloved use easy. The trigger options are excellent, and the safety is a plus, imo. Several companies make good 45 Super ammo, plus 45acp is always an option for city use or low cost, low recoil practice.
I had a Wilson 460 Rowland. It was very accurate and unfailingly reliable. Recoil was mild with the large ported break. Not a really ideal set up for carry. More of a range set up for me.
I find a 30 Cal. carbine better than any large heavy handgun for woods use. More accurate, more powerful and easier to carry in truck or on tractor. YMMV. Not sure what you are defending yourself from? That could make a difference. Big bears are one thing, meth cookers another.
I find a 30 Cal. carbine better than any large heavy handgun for woods use. More accurate, more powerful and easier to carry in truck or on tractor. YMMV. Not sure what you are defending yourself from? That could make a difference. Big bears are one thing, meth cookers another.
.460 Rowland 1001 ft pounds muzzle energy
.45 Super 694 ft pounds muzzle energy
10mm 718 ft pounds muzzle energy
.44 Mag 1533 ft pounds muzzle energy
.50 AE 1664 ft pounds muzzle energy
.45 Super 694 ft pounds muzzle energy
10mm 718 ft pounds muzzle energy
.44 Mag 1533 ft pounds muzzle energy
.50 AE 1664 ft pounds muzzle energy
To compare with the above:
9mm 480 ft pounds muzzle energy
.40 588 ft pounds muzzle energy
.45 592 ft pounds muzzle energy
.357 Sig 636 ft pounds muzzle energy
.357 Magnum 783 ft pounds muzzle energy
However you need to figure out what you are shooting at as certain targets speed and total muzzle energy is king, other targets hard mass is king.
9mm 480 ft pounds muzzle energy
.40 588 ft pounds muzzle energy
.45 592 ft pounds muzzle energy
.357 Sig 636 ft pounds muzzle energy
.357 Magnum 783 ft pounds muzzle energy
However you need to figure out what you are shooting at as certain targets speed and total muzzle energy is king, other targets hard mass is king.
Just curious, where did you get your number from?
I was doing something similar on the Underwood website and came up with:
460 Rowland 255 GN @ 1300 fps = 957 ft*lb
44 mag 305 GN Lead @ 1325 fps = 1189 ft*lb
10 mm 220 GN hard cast @ 1200 fps = 703 ft*lb
Overall were matching up - just a little different on the 44 mag.
I don't personally care much about FT pounds of energy, as no credible modern ballistics lab cares about it vis-a-vis real world performance. A measure of penetration is much more relevant to handgun field use, whether hunting or self defense from the mythical internet bear;-)
A hard cast lead bullet, from about 250g up to about 320g, going over 1000fps, seems to offer pretty much all the penetration a guy can use in North America. Hunting really big game in Africa will be a little different, but not much. The benefit for the big bears, is recoil control and followup shots, when you choose a load that penetrates enough, rather than go for something you can barely control or shoot accurately due to the excessive recoil.
Of course, everyone has the preferences, regardless of actual need, and that's why almost none of us have the same rifles. Pick what you like, that you enjoy shooting, and call it a day. Just make sure it runs in your hands, and not just on the net.
A hard cast lead bullet, from about 250g up to about 320g, going over 1000fps, seems to offer pretty much all the penetration a guy can use in North America. Hunting really big game in Africa will be a little different, but not much. The benefit for the big bears, is recoil control and followup shots, when you choose a load that penetrates enough, rather than go for something you can barely control or shoot accurately due to the excessive recoil.
Of course, everyone has the preferences, regardless of actual need, and that's why almost none of us have the same rifles. Pick what you like, that you enjoy shooting, and call it a day. Just make sure it runs in your hands, and not just on the net.
I have loaded 45 Super to mid level Rowland specs. Heavy recoil spring, heavy striker spring, a strong mag spring and a FULLY SUPPORTED CHAMBER IS A MUST. We also have experience with 10MM + P. We get caught up in max velocity and FPE but when it comes down to it, functionality and shot placement is the key.
A big thing often overlooked is snake shot compatibility. Snakes tend to be more of a nuisance on many hikes. I have heard 10 can shoot the 40 snake rounds but personally never tried (not sure if I would try that or not though). you Can’t do ported if you do snake shot though so that’s a trade off, that’s why I tend to go revolver when talking woods gun. I have had 45acp shot cycle a P320 when you are not talking bear. Personal favorite is something that can fire 45lc shot (either Ruger 45lc for hot bear loading, 454, or 460sw mag). The amount of shot is much more than 38 spl or 45 acp. Or maybe have snake derringer as different option to a semi auto.
That's one of the reasons I haven't tried 460 Rowland, you have to have heavy this and heavy that to get the gun to function without beating itself up. My 10mm Glocks are pretty easy to shoot out of the box. Heck even my Mom had no problem shooting my G29 with pretty warm loads, and she doesn't like shooting anything larger than 9mm.
Dave
woods defense against what?
do you really need .44mag/ .460 / ect . power for the types of critters you are going to find?
unless you are in Griz country....or moose country......you really dont need anything terribly powerful.
hell, 90% of the time, my "woods gun" is a .38....as the only thing i really need to be concerned with is coyotes and the occasional rabid animal.
do you really need .44mag/ .460 / ect . power for the types of critters you are going to find?
unless you are in Griz country....or moose country......you really dont need anything terribly powerful.
hell, 90% of the time, my "woods gun" is a .38....as the only thing i really need to be concerned with is coyotes and the occasional rabid animal.
You cannot shoot the 460 Rowland without a muzzle break.....
For Hunting or meth head defense, I am not going to put in earplugs.... so the Rowland is out as is any ported firearm....
It's a great round buy I would prefer hard cast underwood or buffalo bore ammo in either 357 or 44 to be on my side....
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=396
If you want a semi auto, then a Glock in 10MM or even your Glock 22/23....
plenty of people have shot moose... up close with a 40 cal glock.... not the preferred hunting round but easy to carry on your snow machine...
For Hunting or meth head defense, I am not going to put in earplugs.... so the Rowland is out as is any ported firearm....
It's a great round buy I would prefer hard cast underwood or buffalo bore ammo in either 357 or 44 to be on my side....
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=396
If you want a semi auto, then a Glock in 10MM or even your Glock 22/23....
plenty of people have shot moose... up close with a 40 cal glock.... not the preferred hunting round but easy to carry on your snow machine...
If I'm in big bear country I'm carrying a lightweight 44Mag or 41Mag. They're lighter than semi autos anyways.
The 41Mag is ported, so if I have the choice I carry the 44. I made the mistake of firing that 41 without ear protection ONCE. I'd do it in defense of life again, but only then.
Hence I have no use for the Rowland. Beyond the carry inconvenience of the comp, it's just not practical if you care about your hearing. If you want a semi I'd carry the 10mm. If I'm carrying a semi that's what I do.
The 41Mag is ported, so if I have the choice I carry the 44. I made the mistake of firing that 41 without ear protection ONCE. I'd do it in defense of life again, but only then.
Hence I have no use for the Rowland. Beyond the carry inconvenience of the comp, it's just not practical if you care about your hearing. If you want a semi I'd carry the 10mm. If I'm carrying a semi that's what I do.
I don’t know why everyone is yammering about hearing damage.....
If you are on the range.... wear hearing protection.
In a SD scenario, how many rounds are you planning on shooting?
1-3 rounds is not going to harm your hearing to any significant effect.
A .44 mag is going to due just as much practical damage as a braked .460.
And honestly, I’ll happily lose a little hearing if it means I’m not mauled by a fucking bear
If you are on the range.... wear hearing protection.
In a SD scenario, how many rounds are you planning on shooting?
1-3 rounds is not going to harm your hearing to any significant effect.
A .44 mag is going to due just as much practical damage as a braked .460.
And honestly, I’ll happily lose a little hearing if it means I’m not mauled by a fucking bear
Not meaning to sound like a jerk, but if you say such things, it means you've never shot such guns and don't know what you are talking about. I can shoot a 4" 44Mag without hearing protection and it's loud. Shoot a similar braked or ported handgun...I have...once...tinnitus for 12 hours.
As I said, I'd do it again in self defense but why do so when there are equally effective options lacking this disadvantage?
I've always taken pretty good care of my hearing. In all of my shooting years I've screwed up exactly three times. Once with that 41Mag....once with a buddy shooting across my ear during goose hunting...once a braked rifle going off next to me before I could get my hearing protection in. Three shots total...and the damage and intermittent tinnitus resulting is noticeable.
Which is why from the stories I heard of people who went big game hunting, the professional guides really really hate anyone that brings a rifle with a brake on it.
What do you have in 44Mag that's lighter than something like a G20/G29? And how fun is it to shoot? I assumed when I go out west to hunt I'd carry one of my 10mm's, but maybe a 44Mag would be better?
Dave
Smith and Wesson 329PD. You don't even notice the weight on your belt. Look at the numbers, lighter than a semi option. As for "fun" to shoot with full bore loads? No, but if you have the 500SW grip on it (now standard, I believe) it is manageable and you can get through a couple cylinders. Fine for SD. VERY snappy.
If a grizz charges you the difference between a 6-round cylinder and a G20 magazine will be meaningless. You stopped the bear or you are food or it's knocked away. Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE 10mm fan.
My 10mm full size 1911 and Commander are indeed fun to shoot with full power loads. A full power load in a 329 is not. But they are in different leagues in terms of power.
I shoot the 329 often with "44 spl" loads, now that IS fun. When I bought the gun it came with clam rubber grips which left the grip backstrap exposed. I loaded it up with full bore loads and started to shoot. It was the only gun I've ever shot which recoiled noticeably worse each round due to the lightening in the overall weight of the gun due to spent rounds. After 3 rounds I cried uncle and set it down. With the 500SW grip installed this is not a problem.
The 41 I references is a Taurus Titanium, not made in quite awhile. I love the gun but literally I will never again fire it unless I am double muffed or my life depends on it due to the porting. Night and day difference compared to the 329, same barrel length.
The 44 magnum gets much nicer to shoot as the weight of the revolver goes up, and a nice hand fitting soft grip that lets the gun ride up a bit under recoil helps a fair bit also.
Tinnitus for 12 hrs....... but I am assuming you’re hearing has recovered and you are not suffering long term effects? Correct?
I’m not saying it won’t be uncomfortable....
However I’m not choosing my handgun based on its comfort.....I’m choosing it based on its ability to kill the thing trying to eat me.
And I’ll happily take 12hrs of discomfort to avoid being eaten by a bear.
You are not going to shoot without hearin protection 99.999% of the time.........so why concern yourself with the 0.001% chance of temporary hearing discomfort?
It's very easy with a high energy pistol with a brake, or a rifle with a brake or high powered caliber, to have lifelong hearing issues after unloading a handful of rounds without hearing protection. The father of one of my friends unloaded several rounds from a .300wm at a bear once, the hearing loss stayed with him for life.
If you have never fired a 308 with a break, one shot can permanently destroy your hearing.... I have tinnitus.... and have had it for years...
I agree that self defense shootings, its required to fight... deal with hearing later...
when planning on a SD gun, mine are never ported.... or comped
I agree that self defense shootings, its required to fight... deal with hearing later...
when planning on a SD gun, mine are never ported.... or comped
Thanks for the detailed explanation, I hadn't thought about time vs. getting rounds off. I would probably still carry the G29/G20 as empty weights are ~2-5oz difference, obviously power factor is not the same. But it never hurts to have a good excuse to buy another S&W revolver!
Dave
One problem with that line of thought is that no one shoots a 329 with bear loads as well as they shoot a 10mm semi, or anything even close. Not only is this an issue for followup shots, but it takes a higher level pistol shooter to get the first round accuracy, especially at speed, with a 329, that a bear charge requires.
If you study actual bear attacks, which are pretty well catalogued these days, you are WAY better off with a .38 or 9mm that you can actually hit with, than a big bore, heavy recoiling revolver that you won't train with and can't use under stress.
Of course, all of this is for extremely rare scenarios, but if you actually need to work in bear country, which I have done, it is better to have facts and skill on your side, rather than preference and speculation.
FWIW, when I worked in bear country on a semi regular basis (not hunting, I did that for fun on my own time), I almost always carried a semi auto .308. Way better option.
One problem with that line of thought is that no one shoots a 329 with bear loads as well as they shoot a 10mm semi, or anything even close. Not only is this an issue for followup shots, but it takes a higher level pistol shooter to get the first round accuracy, especially at speed, with a 329, that a bear charge requires.
If you study actual bear attacks, which are pretty well catalogued these days, you are WAY better off with a .38 or 9mm that you can actually hit with, than a big bore, heavy recoiling revolver that you won't train with and can't use under stress.
Of course, all of this is for extremely rare scenarios, but if you actually need to work in bear country, which I have done, it is better to have facts and skill on your side, rather than preference and speculation.
FWIW, when I worked in bear country on a semi regular basis (not hunting, I did that for fun on my own time), I almost always carried a semi auto .308. Way better option.
If you want to trust your life to taking down a charging griz with a 9mm or 38 penetration, that's your business. But not me.
But you're right, you need to be able to control the gun and you also need to be able to carry it and not get tired of the weight and leave it in the truck.
My 329 is headed back to SW later this year. All the actual practicing with bear loads has taken a toll on the blast shield. Just because some people don't practice doesn't mean it isn't a good idea for those that do.
That's where a Ruger Super Redhawk with a long barrel comes into it's own, but many don't want to carry the weight.
One problem with that line of thought is that no one shoots a 329 with bear loads as well as they shoot a 10mm semi, or anything even close. Not only is this an issue for followup shots, but it takes a higher level pistol shooter to get the first round accuracy, especially at speed, with a 329, that a bear charge requires.
If you study actual bear attacks, which are pretty well catalogued these days, you are WAY better off with a .38 or 9mm that you can actually hit with, than a big bore, heavy recoiling revolver that you won't train with and can't use under stress.
Of course, all of this is for extremely rare scenarios, but if you actually need to work in bear country, which I have done, it is better to have facts and skill on your side, rather than preference and speculation.
FWIW, when I worked in bear country on a semi regular basis (not hunting, I did that for fun on my own time), I almost always carried a semi auto .308. Way better option.
The bolded portion is also part of my reasoning for carrying the 10mm over a revolver. I have many, many more rounds downrange with a semi than I do with a revolver, use the platform you're most experienced with methodology. I should also clarify that if I'm out west I'll be carrying a rifle as well, looking to tag something like an elk. I'd use the rifle in my hands first!
Dave
I think you missed the point, but with a 329 and bear loads, that's easy to do. ;-)
I enjoy shooting .44 revolvers quite a bit. If you can shoot them well, that's great, most people cannot. A 329 makes it much harder to do well, compared to even a MTN gun, let alone a 5" classic. Even though I can shoot a .44 well, I can still shoot a 10mm faster, with the accuracy needed for this particular job.
Anyone asking for advice on a bear gun in a thread on a forum, is not an experienced .44 shooter. For them, a reasonably powerful load, in a gun they are already familiar with, is a much better choice.
Actual bear attacks have been, and are, stopped every year with calibers that no one on the internet would ever recommend. I would not recommend them either, though like with almost anything self defense related, the gun you have with you beats the gun you left at home.
I do not prefer a 10mm, as I find them to be unreliable with full power ammo. If you think you have a reliable one, and you are happy with the power, then drive on. I choose a steel .44 magnum, or an HK 45 USP, with 45 super loads. Ive also played with .41's, .44spl, and some smaller calibers. Bears are a lot like people, they dont want to be shot with anything.
Does that make things more clear?
Now, as for you wearing out your 329, what loads are you actually shooting through it, and how many of them, and how often?
I ask, because I've never met anyone, ever, who is willing to shoot more than about a cylinder full at a time. And then, not very often.
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If you choose to bounce 9mms or 38s off a bear's skull because it gives you comfort you are more familiar with it, that is your decision. Just because there is an internet account of a 22 stopping a bear does not make it my choice. There is a minimum I am willing to confront a grizz with and it is 10mm, and all handguns are already underpowered.
Just like you question powerful revolvers for most people, I questions steel framed guns for most people. Almost without exception, I see them left in the truck where they do zero good after the first hard hike.
This leaves us individually finding the balance point between power, carryability, and shootability. As the internet proves we can debate this endlessly. And it is curious that on hunting-focused sites people focus on heavy, cumbersome uber powerful revolvers, and on a this site I curiously see recommendations on grossly underpowered rounds. As with most things it seems the practical solution is probably in between.
My 329 gets several hundred rounds per year, probably 20-30% full power loads. Full power are 300gr Buffalo Bore or equivalent reloads. It's really not so bad with the 500SW grip. The fact that people today CHOOSE to make themselves non proficient with revolvers is not a reflection of the applicability of the tool for the job, but rather a reflection on the people. By no other metric than rounds per second is a 10mm superior to a 44. And I love my 10mms with a passion. But if you can't shoot a revolver well I highly recommend a quality 10mm...and with some knowledge most reliability issues are simply fixed by understanding that most production guns are tuned for underpowered factory ammo and adjustments should be made accordingly.
I give up. This is like the scene in that stupid bay watch remake movie, with the cop and the lifeguards where you are only listening to the parts you want to.
If you like your G20, you'll love a G40. I have one with an RMR 06 mounted on it and it's a pleasure to shoot!
Dave
Dave
I've asked myself this question a bunch and been down this very same road several times.
I have no experience with the .460 Rowland.
I do have a Gen3 G21 with some upgrades, including a LW threaded barrel (5.2") that shoots Atomic 185 +p loads up near 1170 fps.
The same gun shoots DT's 45 SMC 255s wadcutters around 1050- FPS and Underwoods 255's in 45 Super at around 1090-1100 (both verified).
I haven't messed with the .460 because my understanding is that you have to perform several pretty substantial mods to a 1911 or other .45 platform to make it reliable enough to compete with a Glock 10mm. In that case, I would opt for a 10mm.
I would love to add a 10mm to the stable, but I just haven't. In the meantime, the most dangerous thing in the AZ high country (where I spend most of my time) and some Northern NM hunts is a human, black bear, and wolf, small predator, in that order. I don't know whether or not I'd feel comfortable with it in griz territory. Probably not.
If I had to choose one over the other, I prefer a semi auto to a revolver though as I'm a believer in followup shots over power. I don't know if the 10mm is enough do the job in AK, MT, or other locals where the griz predominates.
I have no experience with the .460 Rowland.
I do have a Gen3 G21 with some upgrades, including a LW threaded barrel (5.2") that shoots Atomic 185 +p loads up near 1170 fps.
The same gun shoots DT's 45 SMC 255s wadcutters around 1050- FPS and Underwoods 255's in 45 Super at around 1090-1100 (both verified).
I haven't messed with the .460 because my understanding is that you have to perform several pretty substantial mods to a 1911 or other .45 platform to make it reliable enough to compete with a Glock 10mm. In that case, I would opt for a 10mm.
I would love to add a 10mm to the stable, but I just haven't. In the meantime, the most dangerous thing in the AZ high country (where I spend most of my time) and some Northern NM hunts is a human, black bear, and wolf, small predator, in that order. I don't know whether or not I'd feel comfortable with it in griz territory. Probably not.
If I had to choose one over the other, I prefer a semi auto to a revolver though as I'm a believer in followup shots over power. I don't know if the 10mm is enough do the job in AK, MT, or other locals where the griz predominates.
The more I look at the 10mm? The more disinterested I become. It’s real advantage is for EDC against two legged predators IMHO, but as for a woods gun? I’d rather take a 357mag. Seeing that they’re not that far off from each other (one maybe more powerful from the other given specific loads), because the revolveris more forgiving on various loads. Seeing you don’t need to change out different weighted springs. It also won’t go out of battery.
The same is true with the 460 Rowland. Tuning the machine can be a choir. If you’re worried about animals then a revolver is my choice. If you’re worried about people too? Then that’s different. The 460 Rowland strikes me more as a hunting round. Seeing a compensator is included plus it’ll soak up recoil (hypothetically) better.
If I had to choose? I’d go with 10mm if your most dangerous game I’d black bear, and 460 Rowland for brown bear. That’s if you’re dead set on using a semiauto of course. Just a personal recommendation is the 45 Super. I plan on building a 1911 for hunting around that cartridge.
The same is true with the 460 Rowland. Tuning the machine can be a choir. If you’re worried about animals then a revolver is my choice. If you’re worried about people too? Then that’s different. The 460 Rowland strikes me more as a hunting round. Seeing a compensator is included plus it’ll soak up recoil (hypothetically) better.
If I had to choose? I’d go with 10mm if your most dangerous game I’d black bear, and 460 Rowland for brown bear. That’s if you’re dead set on using a semiauto of course. Just a personal recommendation is the 45 Super. I plan on building a 1911 for hunting around that cartridge.
Now that I think about it. Perhaps the Darke Hour Defense “Stand Off Device” may have more merit that I initially expected. Something the OP could consider.
Revolvers can have issues too, step up to 44 and 500 and you will find out about their issues.
You can have co witness iron & red dot sights on semi, can't do that on a revolver.
460 rowland on my fnx 45 tac, I can shoot out to 100p yards with the same sight alignment at 30ft for my 45 loads on my red dot. No adjustment needed.
The 10mm is softer to shoot with a comp than the 460, the 460 is not heavy recoil with the comp and spring , nothing like 44 mag.
I do like pulling out my 460 and plinking steal standing while the rifle guys still miss off hand.
You can have co witness iron & red dot sights on semi, can't do that on a revolver.
460 rowland on my fnx 45 tac, I can shoot out to 100p yards with the same sight alignment at 30ft for my 45 loads on my red dot. No adjustment needed.
The 10mm is softer to shoot with a comp than the 460, the 460 is not heavy recoil with the comp and spring , nothing like 44 mag.
I do like pulling out my 460 and plinking steal standing while the rifle guys still miss off hand.
Every weapon system has its issues for sure. I personally like the 44mag, and it’s honestly my favorite caliber. It does just about everything you need it to do when you consider the 44spl round too.
I know red dots, or other optics, for pistols is probably the future. But I really cannot get into it myself. But also “that guy” who only carries knives for self defense too. I find some of the reasoning people put into their sidearms setup to be reasonable. If they put real thought into it of course.
At the end of the day. You need to justify your choices.
I know red dots, or other optics, for pistols is probably the future. But I really cannot get into it myself. But also “that guy” who only carries knives for self defense too. I find some of the reasoning people put into their sidearms setup to be reasonable. If they put real thought into it of course.
At the end of the day. You need to justify your choices.
