50 cal accuracy issues

[blackop555]

i have a serbu 50 bfg and at 100 yards i have a hard time shooting a 4 inch group i have a nightforce bench rest scope 8-32x56 on it, after sighting in to 100 yards best i could, just kept chasing shots around the paper, went for a 300 yard target and shots would not go on paper, so i put a large 5foot by 5 foot piece of card board behind it and they all hit all over, i say couldnt get a better group then 7 inches and after shooting enough it will finally line up near another previous shot. i have had 3 different people shoot and we can all shoot good and none of us can do it. i can shoot a 1 group with my scar at that distance. tryed two types of ammo and nothing
will improve it. is the scope bad, it is brand new mounted properly, did notice damage on the box when recieved. maybe its my technique?

any advice woudl be great

 

[Lowlight]

50 cals are a lot like kids.... they were a good idea at the time.

Sell it and get something more manageable, that would be my advice, don't waste your time.

 

[Eastbay]

Have you replaced or messed with your muzzle break? You said your scope was new, but is your barrel?

 

[James n TN]

Check your scope mounts check the bedding and action screws. Also make sure the brake is timed to the barrel. If all is good put the NF on another rifle and make sure its OK. 50's are hard on scopes regardless of brand.

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[Eastbay]

Check your scope mounts check the bedding and action screws. Also make sure the brake is timed to the barrel. If all is good put the NF on another rifle and make sure its OK. 50's are hard on scopes regardless of brand.

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^ Agreed. The brake not timed properly will make a huge disadvantage, and no accuracy.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Most .50 accuracy issues are:

1. Ammo
2. Shooter
3. Rifle

In that order assuming good optics are used. A lot of people feed their rifles surplus ammo and wonder why it won't shoot. On top of that you have a pretty good amount of recoil that your absorbing in the prone position or from a bench and a shit load of muzzle blast which both can cause shooter error. Then you have rifles that just won't shoot for a shit made from crappy parts for cheap for people who want a 50 to say they have a 50.

Serbu rifles are typically pretty accurate all things considered, they're not a Tac-50 or AW50 but they hold their own. Assuming it isn't a lemon which all companies put out from time to time, and it's shooting 4" groups I would say the scope probably isn't busted, but it doesnt rule out a bad barrel. If you want to dick with it I'd get some good match grade ammo and have somebody who is experienced shoot it again.

All that said, I agree with lowlight... 50's are cool and once were the thing. They still hold their own for ELR when your counting distance in miles or if you need to stop a car. So unless you are planning on shooting miles and have a place to do it I'd ditch it and get a 300 or 338. You'll be glad you did especially when it comes time to pay for ammo or components. Any way you slice it 50 costs no less than $3.50/round to load match grade ammo and can go way north from there, 338LM with Lapua components cost a little over a buck a round to load.

 

[sakobob]

50 cals are a lot like kids.... they were a good idea at the time.

Sell it and get something more manageable, that would be my advice, don't waste your time.

what he said . this would have been good advice 5 years ago

 

[Eastbay]

I do love my 300 RUM.

 

[blackop555]

muzzle brake appears to be spot on, gun is brand new so it has a good barrel i assume. i guess at this point i will have to pull the bullets and put in some good ones.

 

[Archer762]

Half of the comments aren't even related to fixing the problem, including a comment from Lowlight. WTF? Having a long range anti-materiel rifle is a valid need/want.

It is a factory rifle. I would rule out bad ammo, then rule out bad scope/mount by attaching it to another high-recoil rifle, then send it back if the problem still happens.

 

[Chiller]

50 cals are a lot like kids.... they were a good idea at the time.

Sell it and get something more manageable, that would be my advice, don't waste your time.

Wise words.....

 

[Chiller]

Half of the comments aren't even related to fixing the problem, including a comment from Lowlight. WTF? Having a long range anti-materiel rifle is a valid need/want.

It is a factory rifle. I would rule out bad ammo, then rule out bad scope/mount by attaching it to another high-recoil rifle, then send it back if the problem still happens.

the .50 is a hell of a round to tame. The same items that come up on every other round that is a problem.....minus the fact that you are using 200 grains to send it down range. Look at a 750 AMAX.

Something similar to

Tactical Ammo, Tactical Ammunition | McMillan Tactical Ammunition

The trouble is and this is just being honest, being a TAC shooter there are much BETTER rounds unless you are sending Mk211 down range........

 

[redneckbmxer24]

muzzle brake appears to be spot on, gun is brand new so it has a good barrel i assume. i guess at this point i will have to pull the bullets and put in some good ones.

This is not a good idea at all. You are talking about a lot of powder. Extra care needs to be taken when loading for a 50, you don't want over pressure. Pulling a bullet that is most likely going to be a lighter weight ball round with a short bearing surface and blindly seating a match bullet that is most likely heavier with a longer bearing surface on god knows how much of what powder is just downright dumb. You should work up a load with the bullet, powder, primer,and case you will be using just like any other round but exercise even more caution.

Another thing is if you don't have a 50 cal loading setup which basically means you buy everything all over again then you might once again want to rethink the whole thing before you spend more money on chasing your tail.

 

[James n TN]

My money is on bad scope or mounts or a badly chambered barrel or bad barrel period. I can't imagine you pulling your shots that much. I could be wrong though.

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[Lowlight]

Half of the comments aren't even related to fixing the problem, including a comment from Lowlight. WTF? Having a long range anti-materiel rifle is a valid need/want.

It is a factory rifle. I would rule out bad ammo, then rule out bad scope/mount by attaching it to another high-recoil rifle, then send it back if the problem still happens.

Excuse me while I roll my eyes at the ridiculousness of some people who clearly watch too much TV ...

Valid reason, Long Range anti-material... exactly, because most are lucky if they can hit the side of a barn with em.

 

[Dogtown]

Are you sure you're not flinching? It's pretty common for people relatively new to big bore rifles to subconsciously develop a flinch and have their groups remain minute-of-hand. I had that problem when I was initially exposed to .50BMG rifles in the Army about 20 years ago and it took a bit of work to get over that flinch (and eye squint). Unfortunately, being away from them for roughly a year or so just made it come back. Scopes can also take a beating but your NF should be good to go - maybe double check that your rings and base are still torqued and haven't vibrated loose? Lastly, I think it's more difficult to make very consistent match-quality .50BMG ammo. Make sure you're shooting the best you can get or make.

 

[kmose73]

Not sure what brand yours is. My friend has a Zastava that came with the most ridiculous unusable scope mounts I've ever seen. To my knowledge he still hasn't put a scope on it.

 

[Archer762]

Excuse me while I roll my eyes at the ridiculousness of some people who clearly watch too much TV ...

Valid reason, Long Range anti-material... exactly, because most are lucky if they can hit the side of a barn with em.

I'm sorry I don't have 8,000 posts and a youtube channel to earn the right to piss on someone wanting more accuracy out of their rifle. I didn't realize you're the guy who has the sole authority to approve which calibers people are allowed to own. To say I "clearly" watch too much TV illustrated you're just an asshole who likes to troll posts and project your own opinions onto others. Your statement is insulting for no reason. Your statement offers no helpful response to the actual problem. Your statement shows you're just an internet bully who "clearly" spends too much time on the internet stroking your ego. For a guy who writes about the "sniper community" you sure must have ate a bowl of urine-soaked Wheaties this morning to be so insulting for no reason.

back on topic: the OP states a 4" group or more among multiple shooters, which I think rules out flinching or other shooter errors. I am even skeptical of ammo being the sole issue when you can shoot those kinds of groups with a smooth-bore shotgun barrel and slugs. Mounts/rings or a problem with the optic seems more likely the more I think about it.

 

[Lowlight]

Do you need a Kleenex ? Are you gonna cry... Need me to call the whambulance for you. [MENTION=45573]Archer762[/MENTION]

Actually I do more than just troll the internet, I go out and actually practice what I preach. I don't talk, I do, and practical experience over the years has proven the "idea" of the .50 cal in most people's hands don't line up with the reality of them behind the trigger.

I can list dozen real world experiences when it comes to shooting a precision rifle that I guarantee you can't match. Just in the last 3 months let alone my career.

Its not not worth answering his question, how do I know, first hand experience. It's why if you look above your own stupid post about the "valid" reason you listed, you'll see people who have gone down that road agreeing with me. It's the difference in doing vs talking about it.

 

[Archer762]

Your personal experiences/opinions are are irrelevant to the topic. He's not shopper looking to buy. The guy already owns a .50 and he wants a .50, so you're being a dick for no good reason. Downright disrespectful- especially going the extra mile to talk shit saying I "watch too much TV" or that you have more real world experience. Unlike you, I assume everyone on this site is a veteran with real world experience, and speak to them accordingly.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to a motorcycle racer forum to tell them they should buy a Toyota Prius because it's less hassle with more real-world practicality.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I never realized it was so wrong to give helpful advice that saves people time, money, and frustration. Hope you enjoyed your stay LOL.

 

[blackop555]

i am not a novice to reloading or i would not attempt reloading these to match grade, nor would i not check the powder charge and tweek until i found one that works. yes it would be a new set up to me, but if it will provide consistancy its cheaper then shooting a bunch of cheap rounds and not hit paper with half of them. i want a 50 cal so that is what i have, there is a few guys up here that shoot them out to 1k at a range an hour from me and it always looked fun, but the way it is now i would hardly hit paper at 500 yards let alone 1000.

is there a recomendation on .50 match grade of ammo out there, im here for advice.

by the way gun is brand new, barrel is clean, barrel is level all the way around. i have badger ordanace 1 piece mount, the scope was loose when i first sighted it in and it was actually shooting better groups then when i took it back in the house and mounted the scope better i have less accurate groups, go figure

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Get some hornady 750 Amax loads if you want factory. Shooting a box of them at minimum would be my first move to see if the rifle is capable of good accuracy before dealing with loading. I also bought some 750 Amax loads from HSM at one point but I'm not sure if they're still making them or not. I haven't even seen HSM ammo of any sort in the last couple years so it wouldn't surprise me if they have closed their doors. The ammo I got was good ammo and every bit as accurate as the hornady.

 

[Shoottothrill]

I would give your manufacturer a call and ask them what .50 round they recommend for their rifle for best accuracy. I would explain the situation your experiencing and see if they have any helpful advice. Please remember that a semi auto rifle will not be as accurate as a bolt action .50. Having said that the groups your getting are abysmal at best. That rifle should easily be 2-MOA or better at 100 yards. Iv'e heard they are more accurate than the Barret semi auto.

I truly believe your rifle needs to go back to the manufacture for repair. A rifle that expensive should shoot.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The Serbu BFG is single shot, not semi.

 

[chariotdriver]

Don't give up on it. My guess: scope mounts coming loose; or there was some scope damage noticed on the box... how many rings are you using? Are they lapped and seated with the purple locktite? If you are shooting factory ammo most of it is great for busting big rocks but leaves much to be desired for any kind of accuracy. The good match stuff is $6-8 per round and you can hand load it for about half that. The 50 bmg is a proven round, just look at the FCSA match results from last month.......dozens of 5 shot groups at 1000 yards in the 2-4" range....the record is under 2"

You really need to experiment with the seating length for maximum accuracy, they are a challenge but very rewarding when you get some accurate strikes so far away. I take mine varmint hunting, it's a blast knocking those pd's off their mounds at 1500 yards with pretty good regularity. Start loading up some tracers and Incendiary rounds....they make quite a display just be careful of starting fires.

 

[The_FNG]

Your personal experiences/opinions are are irrelevant to the topic. He's not shopper looking to buy. The guy already owns a .50 and he wants a .50, so you're being a dick for no good reason. Downright disrespectful- especially going the extra mile to talk shit saying I "watch too much TV" or that you have more real world experience. Unlike you, I assume everyone on this site is a veteran with real world experience, and speak to them accordingly.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to a motorcycle racer forum to tell them they should buy a Toyota Prius because it's less hassle with more real-world practicality.

Yes, call the owner of the site a dick and an asshole, you'll go far my friend.

 

[Hunt4life]

Yes, call the owner of the site a dick and an asshole, you'll go far my friend.

Yeah, especially when Lowlight is 100% correct about .50s. They are fun to shoot for a while but beyond that, the affordable ammo was made to blast away with a Ma-Deuce, not shoot tight groups. I think a match chamber and reloading is the only way with a .50(or at least reloading with the standard chamber). I see them as a novelty for civilian use. I would say the OPs problem is definitely ammo related.

 

[Graham]

50 cal accuracy issues

So many people with no experience on .50s. So many people giving advice as if a .50 is a light rifle. So many people without a clue as to what makes a .50 different... And many of them owning one.

Forget about scope mount tightness, muzzle brakes and ammo.

OP, you're muscling the rifle. Dollars to donuts the spread is horizontal.

And to expand on Lowlight's point: If you don't know how to shoot a rifle, sell the .50 and learn. If you do know how to shoot a rifle, then get rid of the .50 because it will only respond poorly to proper application of the fundamentals.

 

[chariotdriver]

I'll take the bet

With the exception of SASR high accuracy ammo, 50BMG loadings are only spec'd to 2.4MOA, which is a shotgun on this cloverleaf grouping forum. Even the cheap ball stuff has a soft steel core, when we start loading lathe turned hardened cores with incendiary mixes (or tracers) the accuracy does not get better, we make up for it with volume. Quantity has a quality of its own. I have been shooting 50bmg stuff for 23 years. Several rifles and I currently own 2.......my first scope was a 16X Leupold Ultra (pre-mark4 but they look and act the same), it had an issue with shifting under recoil (look up scope oscillations on u-tube); when a firearm with large amounts of recoil discharges most folks would be shocked to see the amount of "flexing" which occurs with just about everything on the firearm.......we all know the barrel flexes and it's quite a bit stouter than any scope out there. The 50 needs a stout mount for it's optics.

Most folks take loading the 50 for granted....throw and go with surplus, pulled projectiles. It deserves the same careful attention as any other precision firearm out there if you are looking for small groups. Accurate projectiles can be found at Hornady, Barnes, Rocky Mountain, Lehigh, etc. They cost less per grain than any 338 LM stuff I shoot. It is a tool which some folks don't need nor want but it does scratch a few itches nothing else can touch....while maintaining the man-transportable label. Personally, I'm still amazed is hasn't been yanked out of civilian hands with a DD classification.

Waiting to hear back from the OP

 

[Kilmore]

While the .50 cal has been in use with the US MIL, it is not known for being an accurate platform. Many problems lie in the quality of the available ammunition. There are some very good projectiles now on the market, see posting above. Secondly, unless the shooter is properly trained on use of said weapon, many accuracy problems occur due to flinching and shot anticipation. Technique can save the day when shooting a .50 cal. If a trained pool of shooters can't get the shots on target, something is amiss. Don't start polishing a turd by pulling apart loaded ammo. Sell it and build good ammo from scratch. The SH reloading forums will offer good starting points and component suggestions. I would then take a very hard look at your scope mount as a .50 will demo the mount if not rated for the recoil of the weapon. The NF scope can handle the .50 and then some.

 

[Graham]

50 cal accuracy issues

Secondly, unless the shooter is properly trained on use of said weapon, many accuracy problems occur due to flinching and shot anticipation. Technique can save the day when shooting a .50 cal. If a trained pool of shooters can't get the shots on target, something is amiss.

Are you speaking from experience? Because you' ve got it backwards: A lack of technique will save the day on the .50. I'll take a new shooter over an experienced shooter on one any day. That's the problem.

 

[RTK]

Are you speaking from experience? Because you' ve got it backwards: A lack of technique will save the day on the .50. I'll take a new shooter over an experienced shooter on one any day. That's the problem.

How so? Bad techniques acquired over time?

 

[Graham]

50 cal accuracy issues

How so? Bad techniques acquired over time?

.50s respond well to a lack of proper technique.

 

[Dogtown]

 

[Sako man]

i have a serbu 50 bfg and at 100 yards i have a hard time shooting a 4 inch group i have a nightforce bench rest scope 8-32x56 on it, after sighting in to 100 yards best i could, just kept chasing shots around the paper, went for a 300 yard target and shots would not go on paper, so i put a large 5foot by 5 foot piece of card board behind it and they all hit all over, i say couldnt get a better group then 7 inches and after shooting enough it will finally line up near another previous shot. i have had 3 different people shoot and we can all shoot good and none of us can do it. i can shoot a 1 group with my scar at that distance. tryed two types of ammo and nothing
will improve it. is the scope bad, it is brand new mounted properly, did notice damage on the box when recieved. maybe its my technique?

any advice woudl be great

Just some friendly advice. The flinch response is a very real thing. As stated It's difficult to not develop a flinch when shooting a 50, and that response can follow you into all your shooting endeavors, not a good thing. So I say start with 308 then move up to 338 if you really want power and reach, in many ways as good as 50bmg or even better than. Trust me .338 is astounding.

Now, if it's a look at my cool toy type of thing that is calling you to the 50 then more power to ya but it comes at a very high cost.

my 10 cents, counting for inflation here.

 

[mattwaage1]

This may be a more receptive place to ask this question: Fifty Caliber Shooters Association

As far as 50 cal accuracy, it can be done: Rasmussen Shoots 1.9557" group at 1000 yards, and sets Four 50-Caliber World Records « Daily Bulletin

 

[Shoottothrill]

The Serbu BFG is single shot, not semi.

They manufacture both. If it's a single shot bolt action then the groups are horrible.

 

[JohnC76]

Excuse me while I roll my eyes atthe ridiculousness of some people who clearly watch too much TV ...

Valid reason, Long Range anti-material... exactly, becausemost are lucky if they can hit the side of a barn with em.

Sarcasm?

I have no problem getting good groups and hitting my targets with my ArmaLite AR50-A1B.

I guess all the snipers using 50BMG rifles in the battlefield, nor the 50 BMG competition shooters can hit their targets or get good groups, either.

 

[TheGerman]

If I wanted to go that far, I just used a radio.

 

[Kilmore]

OK Graham, you bring your noob and I will bring my EDM .50 and we will throw a couple targets up at 1000 yards, send 40 or so rounds down range and see what happens.

 

[HAVOK_RLS2]

50 cals are a lot like kids.... they were a good idea at the time.

Sell it and get something more manageable, that would be my advice, don't waste your time.

LMAO! Outstanding response! =D

 

[Graham]

50 cal accuracy issues

OK Graham, you bring your noob and I will bring my EDM .50 and we will throw a couple targets up at 1000 yards, send 40 or so rounds down range and see what happens.

We don't have to do that. Just look at the results from military shooters.

I guess all the snipers using 50BMG rifles in the battlefield, nor the 50 BMG competition shooters can hit their targets or get good groups, either. [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]

John nailed the issue, but drew the opposite conclusion. Competition shooters with. .50 cal rifles use very different ammunition and equipment. And although he wants to talk about it, it is clear from his post that he has not seen military snipers using .50 BMG in the field.

 

[Kilmore]

Graham...Bwaaa ha ha ha! i guess that would hinge on what units we are talking about. I shot as well as saw a few guys shoot a .50 cal in my 20 years in the special forces and special ops cmd.

 

[Dogtown]

And...this thread is done.

 

[Kilmore]

Graham, for the record, you are preaching to the choir. My own narrow opinion is that the .50 sucketh big wind. We have been working with several firearms manufacturers and mil units to once again test the .408 for mil ELR applications. It has been slow going, but we have had great success with .408 ballistic data and ammunition development. Fact is, the .408 blows by the .50 cal at 800 yards and keeps on going. With any luck, the mil will eventually consider the .408 as a replacement for the .50 cal in anti material engagements.

 

[Kilmore]

Anybody seen the ignore button on this site? You can enter a given user and never have to read their pathetic crybaby bullshit ever again. You know the guy I am talking about. Always seems to be around sniffing your butt like some mutt. Has an unnatural attraction to you. Kinda like a stalker. Lurking, wait to spit his dilute venom at you every chance he gets. Nothing factual, as he does not know you and has never met you. Knows absolutely nothing about your past or your current reality. Just the rantings of a guy that might or might have prior service, he says he does. But you can't possibly ever know for sure because he hides behind his computer, faceless and nameless, running his suck non stop to anyone that will pay him any notice. Probably fat and out of shape, dreaming about his glory days. Yeah, that guy. You keep scraping him off your shoe like dog shit, and before you know it, somethings stinks again. Yep, its him.

 

[Kilmore]

Posted by Ticeman: "Pretty cool experience with the 50 this weekend
What a treat this weekend at the shooting range: touched off a few rds of 50 BMG, when a guy next to me asked, "is that a 50?" yep, I replied. He proceeded to tell me that he's done "a lot of work" with that gun, explaining he has done two tours in the Gulf war and Iraq and shot 2-300 rds of 50/day mostly with the Raufoss round (cant imagine) and is now works for a private contractor at an Embassy. I offered him to shoot my gun, he accepted, two shots thru the same hole! I shook his hand and thanked him for his service and stood humbled in the presence of excellence, very cool experience for me." Imagine that?

 

[JohnC76]

We don't have to do that. Just look at the results from military shooters.
John nailed the issue, but drew the opposite conclusion. Competition shooters with. .50 cal rifles use very different ammunition and equipment. And although he wants to talk about it, it is clear from his post that he has not seen military snipers using .50 BMG in the field.

Yeah, but you miss my personal point. I have no problem getting good groups and hitting my targets with my AR50-A1B 50 BMG. I've sat down and shot some steel, then my wife come behind me and aim at the same hole and put a shot nearly in the same hole. This was with surplus pulled API's. I let others that have never shot my 50 BMG before shoot it and they hit where they aim with these API's. But that's not supposed to happen, right? It's a 50 BMG and it's supposed to suck? lol So go ahead and keep hating ladies and children. I don't mind. Because the less of you that have a 50 BMG, the lower demand for ammo is and the cheaper I can get it. Currently getting API's loaded in 50 BMG cans for $2.25 a shot to my door. It's more fun than any grown man should be able to have!

 

[JohnC76]

This left side is where my wife aimed at my hole. Then I aimed dead center and hit center. The API curved out right-ward, so the hold looks closed from this angle but if you look from an angle you can see it went through and then out the right rear side of the I beam. The other scattered shots are where my dad and uncle aimed at random spots not trying to do anything but poke a hole in the steel. From this angle you can see what I'm talking about. Aimed center, hit center. Shots were 275-300 yards.