500-700 elk/deer lightest recoil?

[Gobears16]

So my father was out with me today shooting my Seekins Havak 6mm creedmoor our to 800 yards and was tickled pink shooting 12in targets that far out with factory ammo. He is 62 and wants to buy/build a new Colorado deer/elk combo. He has access to a range out to 1 mile and will shoot this rifle weekly/daily to become proficient out to ethical ranges. He’s definitely hooked.

So my question to you guys is what cartridge would you pick? And what platform? Budget would be $1800-$2300 for rifle only.

He won’t reload.
He’d like to keep it under 8 1/2-9lbs all up.
Lowest recoil for effective killing range 500-700yards.

 

[BG94591]

28 Nosler. I had a Browning X Bolt that I put a brake on and the recoil felt less than my .270 Winchester. It was more of a push, also shot sub MOA.

 

[Gobears16]

28 Nosler. I had a Browning X Bolt that I put a brake on and the recoil felt less than my .270 Winchester. It was more of a push, also shot sub MOA.

I love my 28nosler but for my dad the recoil and very expensive factory ammo it doesn’t seem a right fit.

I was thinking 6.5 PRC?

 

[jbuck88]

The 6.5prc should work. I'd use that as a minimum though. Are brakes or suppressors in the plan? My 8.5lb 300wsm feels like it kicks a lot less then my 7lb 308. The stock shape, recoil pad, and muzzle device go a long way to managing recoil.

I'd look at the SAUM and WSM in the diameter you prefer as well.

 

[Diver160651]

Do not underestimate the old 7 mag. If you want hard hitting performance in a lighter recoiling package.

I get 3100+ out of 168s or about the same speed as the 140s in a 6.5PRC with more mass. That said, factory loads will be a lot milder.

The very best part of this very non-sexy round, is that you’ll find ammo from California approved solids to high BC offerings, almost anywhere.

 

[acudaowner]

45 110 with coper but stock guard unless 300 win has more kick and like it . feel the burn baby

 

[Another Casual]

Another vote for 6.5 PRC. Built mine and its 8.125 lbs with the scope and the recoil feels more mild than my old 270 to me

 

[NW Valkyrie]

One more vote for 6.5 PRC. Mild recoil, excellent factory ammo. Designed exactly for this scenario.

 

[Covertnoob5]

Also a vote for a 6.5 PRC. Use a limb saver pad as well. Makes a big difference.

 

[Gobears16]

What platform would you recommend? Seekins havak? Christensen Arms Ridgeline/Mesa? PVA nucleus BA w/ McMillan? Rebarrled Kimber Montana?

 

[jbuck88]

I've had both the CA ridgeline in 300wsm and the CA classic in 300wm. Both shot well under MOA. I've also have/had a few of kimber Montana's and dont think that would be the best for what your after. They are good actions and stocks though.

Are you considering used?
Does your dad have a preference?

I grew up hunting with Winchester m70's and have tried to switch over to the Rem 700 clones many times and just keep coming back.

 

[bodywerks]

6.5PRC has $30 factory match hunting ammo. Gonna be hard to beat. It's what I would call the minimum ethical energy(around 1500lb.ft) to take an elk at 700, though. I'd have to have perfect conditions to make a well-placed shot at that distance. I'd try to limit it to around 500 - 350 more lb.ft of energy.

 

[BigTex]

I took a my CO bull last fall with a 140gr Berger from my 6.5x284 @492yds he was DRT.

 

[DangerRanger]

6.5 prc works well for this application. I would build a tikka, or maybe buy a seekins havak

 

[Matches Malone]

Just keep in mind the lighter the gun, the more recoil. As a western hunter I get having a light rifle for multi day pack hunts but I’m not recoil sensitive. Some people are. Then it causes a flinch, then shooter induced accuracy issues, etc.

Maybe he should shoot a light magnum first before deciding quite yet.

But... as far a lethality and cartridge, I’ve always had success and confidence with the .300 win mag. Eventually I want to make the move to the .300 PRC.

 

[garandman]

Are consistent clean ethical kills of elk possible in light recoil guns? My 300 grain 338 Norma (17 lb gun) kicked like a pack of mules.

Im no hunter, but the laws of physics and terminal ballistics / bullet expansion seem to suggest those 2 objectives are at odds with each other.

 

[krw]

Are consistent clean ethical kills of elk possible in light recoil guns? My 300 grain 338 Norma (17 lb gun) kicked like a pack of mules.

Im no hunter, but the laws of physics and bullet expansion seem to suggest those 2 objectives are at odds with each other.

Great post! I have never killd an elk but lots of deer. Marginal shot at those ranges, 300Win mag. Down load for rangeshooting. Had rather have too much than not enough.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I would buy a Tikka 7 RM, have a brake installed, swap trigger spring and start shooting.

 

[Another Casual]

I'd go Seekins or piece together something custom on a big horn origin with a PVA prefit. I got mine in rock creek's #2 contour and its solid.

 

[Alabusa]

Get a 7 mag or a 300 win mag, have a Terminator brake installed for recoil in the .243 Win range.

 

[Evolution 9]

Are consistent clean ethical kills of elk possible in light recoil guns? My 300 grain 338 Norma (17 lb gun) kicked like a pack of mules.

Im no hunter, but the laws of physics and terminal ballistics / bullet expansion seem to suggest those 2 objectives are at odds with each other.

When striking the vitals, there is literally 1 inch (ONE) of hide, and rib or muscle before the bullet is inside the vital organs. I’ve measured.

The ridiculous notion of our grandfathers day that we need massive bone crushing energy and retained weight to drop elk are disproved every time I drop one with a .223.

It’s time for those stupid notions to die a long agonizing death.

ONE INCH. I’d almost struggle to name a centerfire round that isn’t capable of this.

If you strike the vitals, .223 and up are excellent, including past 500 yards. DRT. I’ve seen it. DOZENS of times.

If your capability and decisions dictate that a shoulder may be struck, I’d definitely lean more towards grandpa’s advice, but at 500 yards, I’ve seen an elk shoulder stop two 180 grain bonded rounds from a 300 Win Mag, so all bets are off if you can’t hit the vitals directly.

 

[Evolution 9]

Both taken with the venerable bone crusher... .223 from SBRs.

Bullet technology has come a long way and I do select the projectile for the task, but it really is all about shot placement.

 

[DangerRanger]

I couldn’t give a damn what people use as long as it’s effective, but OP and anyone reading this should look at the laws of the state they will be hunting as some have minimum bullet diameters for legal take.

 

[Steel head]

Are consistent clean ethical kills of elk possible in light recoil guns? My 300 grain 338 Norma (17 lb gun) kicked like a pack of mules.

Im no hunter, but the laws of physics and terminal ballistics / bullet expansion seem to suggest those 2 objectives are at odds with each other.

17# 338 norma magnum kicks like pack of mules?

Hardly

8-9# 300 win mag or weatherby,,,yea that’s far worse.

When striking the vitals, there is literally 1 inch (ONE) of hide, and rib or muscle before the bullet is inside the vital organs. I’ve measured.

The ridiculous notion of our grandfathers day that we need massive bone crushing energy and retained weight to drop elk are disproved every time I drop one with a .223.

It’s time for those stupid notions to die a long agonizing death.

ONE INCH. I’d almost struggle to name a centerfire round that isn’t capable of this.

If you strike the vitals, .223 and up are excellent, including past 500 yards. DRT. I’ve seen it. DOZENS of times.

If your capability and decisions dictate that a shoulder may be struck, I’d definitely lean more towards grandpa’s advice, but at 500 yards, I’ve seen an elk shoulder stop two 180 grain bonded rounds from a 300 Win Mag, so all bets are off if you can’t hit the vitals directly.

^^^^
Absolutely no arguments with that.

 

[Franko]

7mm Rem Mag. Shoots flat, good in the wind, and universal availability as far as guns and factory ammo. If he feels that 7mm isn't enough gun then 30'06.

I'd go with a Tika, I don't own one but they seem like a lot of gun for the money.

 

[garandman]

17# 338 norma magnum kicks like pack of mules?

Hardly

8-9# 300 win mag or weatherby,,,yea that’s far worse.

You point is pointless and stupidly obvious. It amateurish trolling.

"My 2 lb 50 BMG is way worse than your 300 winmag."

<rolleyes>

 

[Evolution 9]

I’d agree with those recommendations but 7mm mag isn’t very light recoiling. Perhaps a break would solve that if it’s drawbacks were acceptable to the OP.

Any non-magnum TIkka would be great.

 

[Steel head]

You point is pointless and stupidly obvious.

My 2 lb 50 BMG is way worse than your 300 winmag.

<rolleyes>

I can see why so many think your a twat

 

[garandman]

Then dont post stupidly obvious troll posts.

OBVIOUSLY the lighter the rifle, the more the felt recoil. Its 8th grade physics. Duh.

Your only conceivable point is that you're a more studly man than I am.

I dont care, either way. Have fun with that.

 

[chevy_man]

Are consistent clean ethical kills of elk possible in light recoil guns? My 300 grain 338 Norma (17 lb gun) kicked like a pack of mules.

Im no hunter, but the laws of physics and terminal ballistics / bullet expansion seem to suggest those 2 objectives are at odds with each other.

Pick the right bullet and poke a hole in their lungs.
Kid got caught poaching here 2 years ago. He had 3 deer and an elk in the truck, with a 22wmr.

Big guns are compensating for bad hits.

 

[Evolution 9]

Grandman,

I don’t know Steel Head’s intentions, but I didn’t read it as demeaning your manhood or uplifting his. He disagreed with your characterization of that caliber kicking so hard in such a heavy gun.

Felt recoil is usually judged in very subjective ways so nobody is right or wrong on this one, but I do expect that most here would perceive 338 Norma in a 17 pound gun as pretty benign.

 

[garandman]

Grandman,

I don’t know Steel Head’s intentions, but I didn’t read it as demeaning your manhood or uplifting his. He disagreed with your characterization of that caliber kicking so hard in such a heavy gun.

Felt recoil is usually judged in very subjective ways so nobody is right or wrong on this one, but I do expect that most here would perceive 338 Norma in a 17 pound gun as pretty benign.

Thanx. Did you ever shoot my gun with my particular load ?

Yes it's a highly subjective discussion. But given the 3 or 4 dozen different rifles I've shot ( incl 300WM and 50 BMG) , I would suggest a recoil sensitive person would find the recoil significant.

Anyway, that whole discussion was never the point. The point was that if you're going to shoot elk @ 700 yd you're gonna wanna hit the vitals. To hit the vitals you're gonna want a wind busting bullet. Wind busting bullets are generally heavier bullets. Moving at a high rate of speed. And those loads tend to produce significant recoil… particularly in the type of rifle that you're going to take out on a hunting trip. You're going to take in 8 to 10 pound rifle including scope. Not a 17 pound rifle.

Bottom line… for a recoil sensitive person the 2 objectives are at odds.

 

[b6graham]

Thanx. Did you ever shoot my gun with my particular load ?

Yes it's a highly subjective discussion. But given the 3 or 4 dozen different rifles I've shot ( incl 300WM and 50 BMG) , I would suggest a recoil sensitive person would find the recoil significant.

you're admittedly not a hunter. but come in half suggesting that you need a 338 norma to kill an elk at 500-700 yards. which is laughable.

you didn't post anything useful. steel head did.

 

[Steel head]

Grandman,

I don’t know Steel Head’s intentions, but I didn’t read it as demeaning your manhood or uplifting his. He disagreed with your characterization of that caliber kicking so hard in such a heavy gun.

Felt recoil is usually judged in very subjective ways so nobody is right or wrong on this one, but I do expect that most here would perceive 338 Norma in a 17 pound gun as pretty benign.

Nailed it.

Thanx. Did you ever shoot my gun with my particular load ?

Yes it's a highly subjective discussion. But given the 3 or 4 dozen different rifles I've shot ( incl 300WM and 50 BMG) , I would suggest a recoil sensitive person would find the recoil significant.

I shoot my buddy’s 14# 338 norma a couple times a month.

It doesn’t even have a decent brake on it.
And old surefire brake.

I find that rifle an absolute pleasure to shoot and I shoot it very well.

He’s often pressed for time so I often even reload his ammunition so he can bring it along when we shoot.

 

[garandman]

you're admittedly not a hunter. but come in half suggesting that you need a 338 norma to kill an elk at 500-700 yards. which is laughable.

you didn't post anything useful. steel head did.

I said nothing of the sort.

In fact, my OP was a question, not a stmt.

 

[garandman]

Nailed it.


I shoot my buddy’s 14# 338 norma a couple times a month.

It doesn’t even have a decent brake on it.
And old surefire brake.

I find that rifle an absolute pleasure to shoot and I shoot it very well.

He’s often pressed for time so I often even reload his ammunition so he can bring it along when we shoot.

Yer so studly. Its clear now that was your whole point.

You always have to have the last word, so knock yourself out. I'm done with you.

 

[b6graham]

Yer so studly. Its clear now that was your whole point.

You always have to have the last word, so knock yourself out. I'm done with you.

im very curious how many times you've said 'done with you' on this forum

to the OP. 6.5PRC or 7SAUM would be my votes for a short action magnum. 6.5creed or 7SAW for a SA 308 boltface

origin/tl3 with a proof barrel. manners EH1. nightforce NX8

 

[garandman]

im very curious how many times you've said 'done with you' on this forum

I forgive and forget quickly on this stupid internet stuff. Unlike the dozen or so who troll my every post in this forum, I dont hold internet grudges. It means "Im out of this particular discussion."

Since yer curious.....

And to the OP.... The type of wind busting bullets you'll need to ethically take an elk hitting the vitals at 700 yd tend to be heavy and fast ... and produce significant recoil.

If anyone tells you the laws of physics and ballistics don't apply to them...be skeptical .

 

[DukeGSP]

would anyone rule out a 257 weatherby mag?

 

[Temper]

would anyone rule out a 257 weatherby mag?

I'd love to do a 257 mag of some kind after hopping on the Blackjack train.

 

[jbuck88]

What terrain are you going to be hunting in? If anything like the pnw where its brush and mountains I'd opt for something that can break a shoulder. A lung shot elk can run a long ways. And it always seems to be down to the bottom of a draw. I have packed enough to hate life.

No offense, but I don't think the 6.5cm is up to the task of a 700yd elk.

 

[Temper]

What terrain are you going to be hunting in? If anything like the pnw where its brush and mountains I'd opt for something that can break a shoulder. A lung shot elk can run a long ways. And it always seems to be down to the bottom of a draw. I have packed enough to hate life.

No offense, but I don't think the 6.5cm is up to the task of a 700yd elk.

What about the lowly 168 from a 308?

 

[DukeGSP]

I'd love to do a 257 mag of some kind after hopping on the Blackjack train.

I love mine and I wouldn't think twice about taking an elk with it.

 

[Evolution 9]

Clearly fake. It wasn’t a bone crushing super magnum.

 

[jbuck88]

What about the lowly 168 from a 308?

That works obviously. I wouldn't recommend it or use it myself for the op's criteria though. I use a 308 for elk as well, but I dont plan on shooting 500+ yards with one.

 

[Gobears16]

lots of great feedback. The majority of the shots are 150-500 yards, either open sage brush flat or cross canyon. i'm leaning pretty hard for the 6.5 PRC, but the 7mag needs some more consideration. The rifle will most likely have a brake to minimize as must recoil as possible.

 

[gopherslayer]

The Hide seems to have come full circle to the magnums again? I’m not knocking them as I have a few myself but when I can load a 168 at 2960fps out of my 30-06s do I really need a magnum for killing? Probably not. Chances are your shots will be under 300 yards.

Whatever floats your boat is what I’d recommend.

 

[Evolution 9]

While you’re debating magnums I’m eating backstrap. Every. Single. Year.

I don’t recommend.223 for everyone, but after over 100 big game animals (including elk and bear) my statements aren’t opinions.

I’ve given you the measurements. Now it’s up to you to explain why it takes a magnum to punch through ONE INCH of animal with a little energy left over.

 

[garandman]

I’ve given you the measurements. Now it’s up to you to explain why it takes a magnum to punch through ONE INCH of animal with a little energy left over.

Ive never said it takes a magnum. All I said is fast & heavy, so it bucks the wind out to 700.

So really... its up to others.

 

[Mr. Z]

Then dont post stupidly obvious troll posts.

OBVIOUSLY the lighter the rifle, the more the felt recoil. Its 8th grade physics. Duh. (Snaps bubblegum while twirling pigtail)

Fixed it for ya?