500-700 elk/deer lightest recoil?

[Evolution 9]

You plan on stalking into 40/60 yards of a elk before you pull the trigger?

Becuase If you want a clean kill with a broadhead or a smaller bullet, that is what is required for a high probability of a clean kill.

Reality stands in stark contrast to your beliefs.

I don’t begrudge any man his strongly held presuppositions. We all have them. When information that transcends evidence and enters squarely into the realm of proof is presented, however, the reasonable thing to do is alter our beliefs to match reality.

 

[Gobears16]

Which is no issue if you are shooting from archery ranges and taking a clean shot that an Archer would have to take. You plan on stalking into 40/60 yards of a elk before you pull the trigger?

Becuase If you want a clean kill with a broadhead or a smaller bullet, that is what is required for a high probability of a clean kill.

Otherwise your point is useless.

If the rules and regs let me hunt with a rifle during the rut when stalking and calling elk into 40 yards I’d do that buttttttt that’s not the case. When I typically hunt elk with a rifle they aren’t chasing cows and susceptible to calling. They are in deep dark canyons and longer shots are normal. I will always try to close the distance for an easier shot but that’s not always the case.

My POINT is that if a broadhead slicing a 1 1/8 inch hole in the lungs kills a bull quickly I have no doubt a 6.5 bullet hitting a bull over 2000fps with 1400lbs of energy will do just a little bit more damage to lungs/liver/heart. That’s all I’m saying. Obviously a bad shot with either equipment results in injured animals.

 

[556ARs]

25~06,7mm~08,270,280,308,30~06. Low to Mid-Range Recoil. All great white tails Calibers & Moose/Elk.
I would like a 358W-mag or 300W-mag for Moose & Elk "Have Enough Gun....JMO

 

[Primus]

If the rules and regs let me hunt with a rifle during the rut when stalking and calling elk into 40 yards I’d do that buttttttt that’s not the case. When I typically hunt elk with a rifle they aren’t chasing cows and susceptible to calling. They are in deep dark canyons and longer shots are normal. I will always try to close the distance for an easier shot but that’s not always the case.

My POINT is that if a broadhead slicing a 1 1/8 inch hole in the lungs kills a bull quickly I have no doubt a 6.5 bullet hitting a bull over 2000fps with 1400lbs of energy will do just a little bit more damage to lungs/liver/heart. That’s all I’m saying. Obviously a bad shot with either equipment results in injured animals.

The issue has never been can a .243 or 6.5 Cal bullet kill an elk. With a perfect shot , yes they can quite easily.

The issue is perfect shots are rare and even archery shooters more often than not, don't make a perfect shot at 50 yards.

It's unethical to take a marginal shot with a marginal caliber. Increase of bullet energy, decrease of range and better skills at shooting all drastically improve the chance of a clean kill.

That is why a broadhead is a bad example for comparison.

But the reality is most people are fucking idiots. Over half the people on this website are what I would classify as retarded. Not a knock on the site, just the iq distribution. So we can provide all the logic and rationale to support why shit is a bad idea, but morons gona moron.

 

[Primus]

Reality stands in stark contrast to your beliefs.

I don’t begrudge any man his strongly held presuppositions. We all have them. When information that transcends evidence and enters squarely into the realm of proof is presented, however, the reasonable thing to do is alter our beliefs to match reality.

Read up a few posts from a guide with a large sample size, not some internet jerkoff. The real world is not your hypotheticals.

 

[Evolution 9]

Read up a few posts from a guide with a large sample size, not some internet jerkoff. The real world is not your hypotheticals.

Perhaps you genuinely missed the factual real world results I’ve posted for you.

Well Over 100 big game animals (including a large number of elk) do not constitute hypotheticals.

The results are in, and those who say small caliber weapons can’t consistently make ethical kills on elk are dead wrong. End of discussion. Game over. Period.

I will FULLY agree with you that many (most) people are not skilled enough to make that a good idea, or lack the self discipline to refrain from taking shots beyond their capabilities.

There are surprisingly few circumstances where poor shot placement can be made up for with a more powerful cartridge, but I’ll concede that those situations do exist.

 

[Primus]

What you fail to realize is no one believes your hyberbole bullshit.

Fact is for the vast majority of shooters what you are trying to push is litterly retarded. It's piss poor at best and unethical as fuck at worst.

None us us are hunting for survival. We do it for sport. Being a responsible steward and conservationalist is what will keep hunting protected. Fucking jerkoffs wounding animals or taking bad shots in today's world ends up on social media and national news. If hunters are viewed as the retards that about half of them are, say goodbye to your favorite hobby.

You cannot justify using small caliber cartridges on big game, as much as you want to play mental gymnastics to rationalize it. Just because something can work doesn't mean it's still not a retarded fucking idea.

 

[Primus]

Perhaps you genuinely missed the factual real world results I’ve posted for you.

Well Over 100 big game animals (including a large number of elk) do not constitute hypotheticals.

The results are in, and those who say small caliber weapons can’t consistently make ethical kills on elk are dead wrong. End of discussion. Game over. Period.

I will FULLY agree with you that many (most) people are not skilled enough to make that a good idea, or lack the self discipline to refrain from taking shots beyond their capabilities.

There are surprisingly few circumstances where poor shot placement can be made up for with a more powerful cartridge, but I’ll concede that those situations do exist.

Out of those hundred how many fails? Or let me guess in your neck of the woods with your people, y'all are 100% perfect. No one takes marginal shots, at range. Everyone is Carlos fucking hathcock and every animals drops DRT?

Save your bullshit for someone who may believe it. If you actually hunt as much as you claim, you would have a roledex of failures and stories about what not to do.

 

[spife7980]

Out of those hundred how many fails? Or let me guess in your neck of the woods with your people, y'all are 100% perfect. No one takes marginal shots, at range. Everyone is Carlos fucking hathcock and every animals drops DRT?

Save your bullshit for someone who may believe it. If you actually hunt as much as you claim, you would have a roledex of failures and stories about what not to do.

No, his buddy missed an entire mag of 300 win mag and he had to come to the rescue with his prairie dog bullets. Remember being graced with that tale?

Evo- we know its possible, people die from slipping in the tub for crying out loud. A gunshot of any type is harmful no matter the critter. But why advocate for stacking the cards against yourself with a 223 and make what might be a slight fuck up into a larger one than it would have otherwise have been? Quit giving bad advice and pawning it off as a revelation.

 

[b6graham]

hasn't a 6.5/7 killed more elephant than any other cartridge?

 

[CStroud]

hasn't a 6.5/7 killed more elephant than any other cartridge?

Through a quartering away brain shot, yeh.

 

[Primus]

And how many people were trampled to death becuase they couldn't make a perfect shot under pressure.

How many were clean/ethical kills?

Context is everything. How many people would vollenteer to play chicken with a full african elephant armed with a 6.5 creedmoor at 50 yards? Never mind that on these hunts there are usually 2 other proffesional hunters ready to blast an animal with 20 rounds of 7.62 out if a FAL before it eats their customer. Even with that backup virtually everyone is shooting a large plain games magnum caliber like .416 Rigby or rem.

Also, what countries allow legal elephant hunting with a 6.5/7mm bullet? Curious

 

[Evolution 9]

Primus and Spife,

Actually, plenty of people believe me, both in this thread and in several states (I always have a long line of hunters who want me to take them because they KNOW how successful I am. I’ll be taking 4 hunters from 3 states this year).

If you choose not to believe my true statements, that’s ok. To you I’m just some dude from the internet. I won’t lose any sleep over it because to me, you are also just some dude from the internet. I wish you luck, and you’re welcome to come watch my “hyperbole” first hand any elk season. I’ll even put you up for the season as long as you promise to come back here and post what you whitnessed.

Spife, if you actually read my statements you would see that I specifically didn’t recommend .223 to anyone. I recommended standard calibers like 6.5 creedmoor and .308. I simply used the real world effectiveness of .223 as absolute proof that those larger calibers were sufficient.

 

[CStroud]

And how many people were trampled to death becuase they couldn't make a perfect shot under pressure.

How many were clean/ethical kills?

Context is everything. How many people would vollenteer to play chicken with a full african elephant armed with a 6.5 creedmoor at 50 yards? Never mind that on these hunts there are usually 2 other proffesional hunters ready to blast an animal with 20 rounds of 7.62 out if a FAL before it eats their customer. Even with that backup virtually everyone is shooting a large plain games magnum caliber like .416 Rigby or rem.

Also, what countries allow legal elephant hunting with a 6.5/7mm bullet? Curious

A lot of it happened a long time ago...

W. D. M. Bell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Primus]

Primus and Spife,

Actually, plenty of people believe me, both in this thread and in several states (I always have a long line of hunters who want me to take them because they KNOW how successful I am. I’ll be taking 4 hunters from 3 states this year).

If you choose not to believe my true statements, that’s ok. To you I’m just some dude from the internet. I won’t lose any sleep over it because to me, you are also just some dude from the internet. I wish you luck, and you’re welcome to come watch my “hyperbole” first hand any elk season. I’ll even put you up for the season as long as you promise to come back here and post what you whitnessed.

Spife, if you actually read my statements you would see that I specifically didn’t recommend .223 to anyone. I recommended standard calibers like 6.5 creedmoor and .308. I simply used the real world effectiveness of .223 as absolute proof that those larger calibers were sufficient.

Serious question have you been tested for autism and if so, what kind do you have?

 

[DangerRanger]

Op have you made a decision whilst this thread has spun down the toilet bowl?

 

[Evolution 9]

Again, Primus,

Your ad hominem comments say far more about the kind of person you are, and the weakness of your case, than they do about me.

It really would be worth you googling that term.

Understanding cognitive dissonance would also be helpful.

 

[spurrnch]

I haven't read everything here, so I will apologize if it has already been discussed, but a 280 ackley would seem to be pretty ideal for what you are wanting. More and more factory ammo with the Hornady 162 eldx ammo being very capable of working at the ranges you have mentioned and recoil is very manageable.

 

[Gobears16]

Op have you made a decision whilst this thread has spun down the toilet bowl?

I’m 99% sure I’m going with 6.5 PRC. I was pushed over the edge by Primus, we’ll stack elk just to prove him wrong.... I’m new here but his type are all over other forums. Typically they are the guys on the internet throughout fall and winter talking about killing animals instead of doing it.

 

[DangerRanger]

Oh damn lol

 

[JamieD]

I would definitely go 6.5 PRC. I went on my first elk hunt and got all kinds of shit for taking a .264 win mag. (About 12 years ago). Love the caliber and could spot my own shots. Took my elk at 646 yards. The PRC is my new favorite and is a great step forward to the .264 win mag.

Good luck,
JamieD
Wolf Precision
www.wolfprecision.net