6.5 creedmoor load development

[wisdeerkiller]

I recently got a seekins hit 6.5 creedmoor. My first creedmoor.

I wanted to try the velocity node method. I now feel I've wasted time and money.

Lapua SRM, berger 140 hybrid, h4350, cci.

Started with 0.5 increments, 40-43.5. I know berger has 42.6 as max. No heavy bolt, or primer issues.

These were only 5 round and I did not have time to shoot group size as my uncle was planting and spaying.

My ES was over 40fps until I got to 42.5. At 43 I was at 9.5. 43gr I'm 2810fps.

Between 43 and 43.5 I had my biggest jump in fps.2810-2870

I asked on reddit and got alot of crap for going over 42.5 and over 2800fps. Because they say creedmoor shoots this and why bother trying something else.

Did I waste time with velocity nodes? Is 43gr or 2800fps too much? For brass or barrel life.

I hoping this weekend I can shoot group size.

Thanks. This is my first time on here and appreciate any feedback.

 

[XLR308]

Just my process so take it for what it cost you.
I used pretty much all components you listed assuming you also used cci450 primers.
The difference is I do not waste my best components on new brass.
I loaded with 123 custom comp bullets and Varget for the first firing.
Then my load is 41.7 of H4350 that is running in the 2805-2810fps range in a Bartlien 1-7.5 twist finished at 23".
Obviously use your own data and watch for pressure signs.

 

[260shooter]

Load 10 and shoot for group and chrono, if the ES and SD still suit you move on to seating depth testing. I start at 20 thou off the lands and in 10 thou increments go to 60 thou off.

 

[wisdeerkiller]

Load 10 and shoot for group and chrono, if the ES and SD still suit you move on to seating depth testing. I start at 20 thou off the lands and in 10 thou increments go to 60 thou off.

Looking like what I'm going to do. With the berger hybrids, if you shoot them, seating change much for accuracy? Was hoping to keep at mag length. May see if mdt without binder plate feeds in my gun.

 

[wisdeerkiller]

Just my process so take it for what it cost you.
I used pretty much all components you listed assuming you also used cci450 primers.
The difference is I do not waste my best components on new brass.
I loaded with 123 custom comp bullets and Varget for the first firing.
Then my load is 41.7 of H4350 that is running in the 2805-2810fps range in a Bartlien 1-7.5 twist finished at 23".
Obviously use your own data and watch for pressure signs.

Yes same primers. Can I ask why about first firings? I hear that alot. I am depriming, fl size without capping pin. And have a mandrel.

 

[260shooter]

Looking like what I'm going to do. With the berger hybrids, if you shoot them, seating change much for accuracy? Was hoping to keep at mag length. May see if mdt without binder plate feeds in my gun.

I start at 20 thou off the lands and seat deeper.

 

[260shooter]

Yes same primers. Can I ask why about first firings? I hear that alot. I am depriming, fl size without capping pin. And have a mandrel.

On your first firing your case is fireforming to the chamber. On the second firing the brass fits the chamber better and is more consistent.
I believe forming the brass takes energy and in so doing you lose a few fps in velocity on the first firing.

 

[Bbracken667]

I recently got a seekins hit 6.5 creedmoor. My first creedmoor.

I wanted to try the velocity node method. I now feel I've wasted time and money.

Lapua SRM, berger 140 hybrid, h4350, cci.

Started with 0.5 increments, 40-43.5. I know berger has 42.6 as max. No heavy bolt, or primer issues.

These were only 5 round and I did not have time to shoot group size as my uncle was planting and spaying.

My ES was over 40fps until I got to 42.5. At 43 I was at 9.5. 43gr I'm 2810fps.

Between 43 and 43.5 I had my biggest jump in fps.2810-2870

I asked on reddit and got alot of crap for going over 42.5 and over 2800fps. Because they say creedmoor shoots this and why bother trying something else.

Did I waste time with velocity nodes? Is 43gr or 2800fps too much? For brass or barrel life.

I hoping this weekend I can shoot group size.

Thanks. This is my first time on here and appreciate any feedback.

There is no such thing as a velocity node. You can get those with insufficient data points and good luck duplicating your results.
Below is what charge differences makes with more data points. No “nodes”.
More powder means more pressure and more mv. As you approach the max, instability increases unless you exceed max sufficiently in which case bad things happen.

 

[supercorndogs]

It seems like most hit pressure around 42.something in lapua brass. The 41.5g load people use in hornady brass is more like 40.5 in lapua brass.

 

[Bbracken667]

It seems like most hit pressure around 42.something in lapua brass. The 41.5g load people use in hornady brass is more like 40.5 in lapua brass.

This confuses me a bit… it has been my experience that Lapua holds up under slightly higher pressures better than Hornady brass. Lasts longer.

 

[spife7980]

This confuses me a bit… it has been my experience that Lapua holds up under slightly higher pressures better than Hornady brass. Lasts longer.

Lapua is thicker with less internal capacity. Thus it can make higher pressures with less powder.

PV=nRT
If we keep the right side of the equation constant then the Pressure and Volume on the left side work inversely to one another: if P goes up then V must go down, if V goes up then P must go down.

 

[Bbracken667]

Lapua is thicker with less internal capacity. Thus it can make higher pressures with less powder.

PV=nRT
If we keep the right side of the equation constant then the Pressure and Volume on the left side work inversely to one another: if P goes up then V must go down, if V goes up then P must go down.

Yah, I know how it works lol.
My observation and experience still has lapua lasting longer than Hornady. Can’t say why, specifically and never really looked into it. I get neck splits at least 3 or 4 firings sooner with the Hornady.
It’s why I switched to Lapua 100%.
Oh well.

 

[supercorndogs]

IF YA "know how it works lol" then the confusion is cleared correct?

 

[Bbracken667]

I interpreted the statement as Hornady handling higher pressures. Perhaps the implication was not that.
I have a minor in physics from ‘76. My interpretive language skills are apparently lacking, or my memory, which suffers at my age. LoL
Tip o the hat to ya.

 

[Whytry85]

Yah, I know how it works lol.
My observation and experience still has lapua lasting longer than Hornady. Can’t say why, specifically and never really looked into it. I get neck splits at least 3 or 4 firings sooner with the Hornady.
It’s why I switched to Lapua 100%.
Oh well.

In general, my findings has been hornady brass is soft and thin. Which depending on whether you anneal or not may cause your neck splitting issues. Which would hold true to what @spife7980 said. Thicker necks=more firings before failure. Measure a hornady neck vs lapua with a ball mic and that’ll give you your answer.

 

[Bbracken667]

In general, my findings has been hornady brass is soft and thin. Which depending on whether you anneal or not may cause your neck splitting issues. Which would hold true to what @spife7980 said. Thicker necks=more firings before failure. Measure a hornady neck vs lapua with a ball mic and that’ll give you your answer.

Uh, that’s what I said. I get more firings from Lapua brass. I do anneal. After every firing.
Quoting myself, from above: “My observation and experience still has lapua lasting longer than Hornady.” We are in agreement. Lapua lasts longer.

 

[45-90]

I haven't been shooting my 6.5 CMs for quite some time.
But I use Lapua brass, both in SR and LR, same with serious 308 loads...after some testing these days I prefer the LR primers.
I got better accuracy, lower S/Ds, and about 40 fps more velocity with LR primers.
I use Alpha Munitions brass in the 6 Dasher at high pressures and it's very good brass for the dasher.
I also use hybrid cases, for different applications, as well as good ol LC for fun.

 

[Whytry85]

Uh, that’s what I said. I get more firings from Lapua brass. I do anneal. After every firing.
Quoting myself, from above: “My observation and experience still has lapua lasting longer than Hornady.” We are in agreement. Lapua lasts longer.

And also said “Can’t say why, specifically” so we’re telling you. Anyways, seems like you have it figured out. Have a good one

 

[Bbracken667]

And also said “Can’t say why, specifically” so we’re telling you. Anyways, seems like you have it figured out. Have a good one

Ah.. gotcha. I thought I was disagreeing with the initial post and was trying to be nice about it. My perception of what was being said was incorrect. For that, I apologize.
Now perhaps we can get past whoopin dead horses and on with the questions at hand.
Thank you for straightening me out.
I am the statistician who insists that calculating SD’s for 3 or 5 shots is ridiculous. I also maintain that there are no “velocity nodes” just insufficient data. My misperception of what the OP of this thread said was my error and when I went back and reread it, it was clear.

 

[Seymour Fish]

I recently got a seekins hit 6.5 creedmoor. My first creedmoor.

I wanted to try the velocity node method. I now feel I've wasted time and money.

Lapua SRM, berger 140 hybrid, h4350, cci.

Started with 0.5 increments, 40-43.5. I know berger has 42.6 as max. No heavy bolt, or primer issues.

These were only 5 round and I did not have time to shoot group size as my uncle was planting and spaying.

My ES was over 40fps until I got to 42.5. At 43 I was at 9.5. 43gr I'm 2810fps.

Between 43 and 43.5 I had my biggest jump in fps.2810-2870

I asked on reddit and got alot of crap for going over 42.5 and over 2800fps. Because they say creedmoor shoots this and why bother trying something else.

Did I waste time with velocity nodes? Is 43gr or 2800fps too much? For brass or barrel life.

I hoping this weekend I can shoot group size.

Thanks. This is my first time on here and appreciate any feedback.

Despite no distinct signs of pressure, that large jump in MV suggests you are on the cusp of it. Did you notice a jump in recoil or unhappy harmonics of the system ? A target might show instability at 43.5. H4350 generally shows a wide node on paper, across at least a grain of powder, which is a shortcut to success.