6.5 creedmoor vs 6.5x47 lapua

[BallisticPrimate]

Some people just want to be validated and will argue until they get it, like the butthurt crowd from down under. We actually get off our bellies and find their preferred March lacking, as most do, so they get upset we won’t follow suit. Funny I went to see it light the King of 2 Miles on fire and only saw one, maybe two. In fact I saw more IOR than March, how do you square that circle. Totally mock worthy with their tiny eye box.

The military adopted the 6.5CM and they tested it extensively, the tactical competition world voted obviously. As did the consumer market from rifle to ammo, it wins. Add in the fact the x47 had a significant head start, and boom.

If you want the 6.5x47 to be competive in this discussion, make it a 6x47 and then you have something to talk about.

PS I have the x47 and my team in AK shoots it too, the OD AX is a x47. I still think the CM wins.

Creed (6.5x49) and 6.5x47L are so close as to basically be a wash if one handloads - CM makes more sense for a new shooter getting into the sport now but whatever "wins" can be argued in either direction are not of practical relevance - this is obvious. As to the March - both the 3-24 and 5-40 are outstanding and by no means limited to prone shooting. I have a slight preference for my Schmidt & NF scopes but I can't pretend the March doesn't perform to the same/similar levels in terms of the stuff that matters. If a shooter is missing with the March it's not the scope that needs work.

 

[Diver160651]

Like dwell time in a barrel, the CM will kill the opposition due to volume of production. We saw it with 308 (nowhere near as good as the UK round on offer) and 223 (see the never ending debate on that one), and now the CM will suffocate competition due to a military contract and volume of purchases. It is not inherently better, it is just better marketed.

perfect...... But. all PRS shooters need a Dasher. Hum,

 

[Lowlight]

Scope shadow throws shots and march is dead in the us tactical market. Name only gets mentioned by fanboys, who’s love won’t change the facts.

The x47 has limited acceptance, barely any on the shelf and too expensive for what it is. A box of painfully slow 136 here is $115 for 50 vs $48 for the same number CM and you can find it on every shelf, in a pinch it helps. Especially if you travel like me. I can fly to AK and grab a box from a gas station.

Everyone defaults to 140; you can do so much more and people barely tapped the surface of it. You can get a lot different brass too, with or without the small primer.

Marketing matters, as Remington about the 260.

Inherent accuracy is great too, ask every new shooter with a factory rifle, nobody complains about it. Stop reading the internet where rubes call it a fad. Even Tikka gets it, don’t think I ever saw a factory x47.

It gets people in the game quickly, vs Acting like a wine snob.

Make it a 6mm if you want to see it shine.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

Scope shadow throws shots and march is dead in the us tactical market. Name only gets mentioned by fanboys, who’s love won’t change the facts.

The x47 has limited acceptance, barely any on the shelf and too expensive for what it is. A box of painfully slow 136 here is $115 for 50 vs $48 for the same number CM and you can find it on every shelf, in a pinch it helps. Especially if you travel like me. I can fly to AK and grab a box from a gas station.

Everyone defaults to 140; you can do so much more and people barely tapped the surface of it. You can get a lot different brass too, with or without the small primer.

Marketing matters, as Remington about the 260.

Inherent accuracy is great too, ask every new shooter with a factory rifle, nobody complains about it. Stop reading the internet where rubes call it a fad. Even Tikka gets it, don’t think I ever saw a factory x47.

It gets people in the game quickly, vs Acting like a wine snob.

Make it a 6mm if you want to see it shine.

Don't disagree re the CM, if you're not hand loading it's the obvious choice. Also agree March marketing is hopeless - which says nothing about the quality of the product.

No idea what you're on about re "Scope shadow" with the March. King of 2 Mile was won with a Bushnell XRS2 - nice optic - which also has a worse eye box than the March - as anyone who's run one side by side with a 5-40 would know.

 

[Lowlight]

This isn’t a March discussion, nobody cares about the optic clearly, look at the board and sales, far more regarding Bushnell, ps I was at the K02M I know what was used.

Why cant you just do a better job reloading the 6.5CM I don’t find difficult and I barely reload. It got me on at a mile 4/5 with a 121 Flatline, took no effort to spin it up.

Try harder.

 

[deersniper]

Do you ever sleep lol

 

[BallisticPrimate]

This isn’t a March discussion, nobody cares about the optic clearly, look at the board and sales, far more regarding Bushnell, ps I was at the K02M I know what was used.

Why cant you just do a better job reloading the 6.5CM I don’t find difficult and I barely reload. It got me on at a mile 4/5 with a 121 Flatline, took no effort to spin it up.

Try harder.

I don't give a flying puck about brands (none pay me so I never have to wonder if I've developed a bias in their favour) - but I do care about objectivity and none need try hard to spot its absence here.

 

[Campguy308]

Market support? Make it a 6mm? Hell in that case, let's all just shoot 308 and 243. Fortunately in our hobby, us reloaders can chamber our barrels in whatever we want, factory ammo or not.

 

[Long Range 338]

I don't give a flying puck about brands (none pay me so I never have to wonder if I've developed a bias in their favour) - but I do care about objectivity and none need try hard to spot its absence here.

Objectivity is openly recognizing pro vs con, I would say there has been plenty of that in this thread...

 

[Squat]

Some people just want to be validated and will argue until they get it.

The military adopted the 6.5CM and they tested it extensively, the tactical competition world voted obviously. As did the consumer market from rifle to ammo, it wins. Add in the fact the x47 had a significant head start, and boom.

I did talk to my buddies at socom, i have my .mil email if you need it. it’s really close, and the 6.5 was not exactly picked like people think. Nothing is picked like people think. There are a lot of bean counters playing major roles, not to mention retired guys lobbying hard, so the employers of said new item sometime go with the lesser of two evils vs fighting and losing what they actually want. I some cases , one I’m involved in there’s no one else with a clue on the team so we can pick what we want and form the end result.

So the comment “used by the military” isn’t as “case closed” as it’s made out to be. When I was supporting 7th SFG half the bats used Polaris the other used Kawasaki for UTVs. The COR was won by Polaris. IMHO the rzrs where superior, but the point is just because x is selected doesn’t mean it’s actually the best. Lots of things go into procurement and top of the function stack is almost never picked. To throw a curveball everyone bitches about the m4 you can almost get whatever you want in the SFG and CAG yet most roll with the m4 yet how many folks on forums bash on the gas operated m4 and “wouldn’t have one myself” ????.

 

[Squat]

Like dwell time in a barrel, the CM will kill the opposition due to volume of production. We saw it with 308 (nowhere near as good as the UK round on offer) and 223 (see the never ending debate on that one), and now the CM will suffocate competition due to a military contract and volume of purchases. It is not inherently better, it is just better marketed.

Bingo. If people understood how military procurement works they’d die. How many of you went to SOFIC in may? It’s not as cool as it used to be but if you are the money guy and x brand loads you up with Benchmades,Surefire, Leatherman, gerber, kestrel etc..... some of the swag handed out is sick. Then you have to spend your budget......

http://www.sofic.org/-/media/sites/sofic/documents/sofic_2018_final-low-res3.ashx

 

[Squat]

This isn’t a March discussion, nobody cares about the optic clearly, look at the board and sales, far more regarding Bushnell, ps I was at the K02M I know what was used.

Why cant you just do a better job reloading the 6.5CM I don’t find difficult and I barely reload. It got me on at a mile 4/5 with a 121 Flatline, took no effort to spin it up.

Try harder.

I suck and I was 4/10 with 175 TMk at 1680 with a board member spotting. My first 3 shots were misses some due to a new spotter. So while I won’t throw those out I will say numbers don’t always close the discussion door. I was 34.6 and 2.9L for dope

 

[moosemeat]

After eating my words on a simular post i decided to do some informal study on this.
In the benchrest world many believe that the x47 is more accurate than the creed. Attribute it to slightly shorter powder column, slightly longer neck, easier to tune or what ever. These are guys who have tried both, change barrels like I change socks, and have been in the sport of benchrest for a while.
For positional shooting I dont thinknit matters unless you can hold 1/4 moa in poition.
Choose creed. Buy ammo. Shoot stuff.

 

[deersniper]

You know what this thread is lacking?? More Spindrift!
!View attachment 6936108

Lol just need a left hand barrel

 

[308pirate]

So I’m building a rifle and all the stuff I’ve read has not helped me pick between the two. You all seem to begrudgingly admit the 47is more accurate then one post later say the 6.5 could be as good


So which is it. I’m Trying to buy once cry once and clearly this thread is not the place to ask that.

Act like a man and make your own G-D decisions. No one here gives a fuck what you shoot.......

 

[Squat]

Act like a man and make your own G-D decisions. No one here gives a fuck what you shoot.......

You make me laugh. It’s funny how people like you act. I already made my decision just loved watching a bunch of computer snipers fight on the internet trying to #$42 measure. No wonder most good shooters leave forums. Because keyboard snipers rule the day. A number of guys named you specifically as one of the worst people to listen to for advice. The nice thing about this thread is now everyone can see how utterly useless most of what you say is. ????

And given your dribble why are you here? You can barely type can’t make a coherent thought without getting off topic and losing your mind and basically are the opposite reasons sites like this even exist. You are so adorable though.... really one of the cutest lads I’ve come across on a forum. I read through some of your posts and all I see is arrogant ....... it’s ok though you shot NRA rifle ahhahaha hahahaha.

 

[Hairy Biker]

Oh dear. It really is time to air drop some kleenex into this discussion aka bar room rabble.

The plain simple fact remains, as much as certain loud voices scream the opposite, the work we have done over the years to bring BR techniques, thinking, and equipment into the "practical" disciplines has worked.

Internet experts roll out the dribble of the moment, but if you read posts by those who do this properly, you should pick up some interesting points. A good post will make you think, provide cause to re-assess your current shooting decisions and maybe even improve a little.

98% of the angry, snide, and bitter comments on this thread just prove that forums like this are should be marked "for adult entertainment and Psych Students Only".

Now OP, have you got what you came for? 6.5 Lapua with 140 grain bullet good. Can get 2950fps in the right barrel. Can get 3500 shots before accuracy starts to drop. Use it in an AI style stock, Jewell trigger, high mag range FFP scope (think S&B or March 40x). Can annoy a whole shed load of people with narrow minds!

 

[Squat]

Oh dear. It really is time to air drop some kleenex into this discussion aka bar room rabble.

The plain simple fact remains, as much as certain loud voices scream the opposite, the work we have done over the years to bring BR techniques, thinking, and equipment into the "practical" disciplines has worked.

Internet experts roll out the dribble of the moment, but if you read posts by those who do this properly, you should pick up some interesting points. A good post will make you think, provide cause to re-assess your current shooting decisions and maybe even improve a little.

98% of the angry, snide, and bitter comments on this thread just prove that forums like this are should be marked "for adult entertainment and Psych Students Only".

Now OP, have you got what you came for? 6.5 Lapua with 140 grain bullet good. Can get 2950fps in the right barrel. Can get 3500 shots before accuracy starts to drop. Use it in an AI style stock, Jewell trigger, high mag range FFP scope (think S&B or March 40x). Can annoy a whole shed load of people with narrow minds!

You made some great points. Hopefully people can read through here and understand who is “helping” and who is using bandwidth to brag about how good and smart they are.

Op left a while ago hopefully before the useful idiots “helped” funny thing is I’ve been here for less than a month and have been told prior to joining the names of “helpers” and they do a great job of confusing people and really not helping. Yet they manage to tell all about themselves.

What I would suggest is when is comes to cartridges there aren’t many of the same things out there. So there is a difference in the two the OP asked about. Unfortunately there are a lot of trash posts from hangers on to sift through.

 

[XLR308]

Squat, the reasons for steering most towards the Creedmoor have been repeatedly stated through this thread and it's a no brainer.
Support for the round people use, the differences between the two being very miniscule though one has a bit of a velocity edge, and we aren't benchrest shooters. If I was there are better choices than either of the cartridges being hen pecked here.
Simple as that

 

[Just Chuck]

I've been looking over everyone's shoulders watching this thread and enjoyed the discussion. Right now I'm pretty old school - shooting my .223 and .308 in F class t/r - reloading for both. I've been looking at the 6.5 CM and wondering if this was a fad cartridge and would be around long term, and now relatively confident it would be a good purchase for F open...well my birthday is next month so maybe with enough hints....

I appreciate all the informed opinions and input - thanks.

 

[Campguy308]

You make me laugh. It’s funny how people like you act. I already made my decision just loved watching a bunch of computer snipers fight on the internet trying to #$42 measure. No wonder most good shooters leave forums. Because keyboard snipers rule the day. A number of guys named you specifically as one of the worst people to listen to for advice. The nice thing about this thread is now everyone can see how utterly useless most of what you say is. ????

And given your dribble why are you here? You can barely type can’t make a coherent thought without getting off topic and losing your mind and basically are the opposite reasons sites like this even exist. You are so adorable though.... really one of the cutest lads I’ve come across on a forum. I read through some of your posts and all I see is arrogant ....... it’s ok though you shot NRA rifle ahhahaha hahahaha.

Which one did you pick?

 

[Rthur]

This discussion seems familiar...

The above pics are the equivalent of this discussion.
From the matches I've attended shooter skill has meant much more than which of the above they were shooting.
Pick one and get good with it.

R

 

[Lowlight]

Do you ever sleep lol

Was up early shooting the Guardian long range match,

Top 20 with the JP 224 Valkyrie shooting 88gr Hornady, ya go figure, actually shooting stuff

Fun time, Guardian puts on a good match.

 

[Lowlight]

Even cleaned stages in heels,

Heels, and working with a busted up neck.

Credit goes to the KT tape

Ps, CAG was at the SHC in 15 shooting a 260 guess they missed the memo on the x47

 

[Lowlight]

Yep I shot in heels

Forum guy, shooting an AR, oops

 

[deersniper]

How did the 224v do against the 65s and 260s?

 

[XLR308]

Yep I shot in heels
View attachment 6936604View attachment 6936605

Forum guy, shooting an AR, oops

You ain't right Lowlight ????
That "maid" my morning ?

 

[Shifty6BR]

????

 

[Lowlight]

How did the 224v do against the 65s and 260s?

Very good, I only had 40 rounds with the 88s before coming out. And the CO winds were 18-24MPH when I zeroed it, so my windage here had to be re-zeroed, and my data was .1-.2 off from it. But I adjusted on the fly.

Lots of good with the 224V

At 700+ it starts to really feel the wind, but inside it’s money. We had a switchy back and forth wind, maybe 6MPH so you have to work, but super happy how the JP ran and the Hornady was good to go

 

[Campguy308]

Very good, I only had 40 rounds with the 88s before coming out. And the CO winds were 18-24MPH when I zeroed it, so my windage here had to be re-zeroed, and my data was .1-.2 off from it. But I adjusted on the fly.

Lots of good with the 224V

At 700+ it starts to really feel the wind, but inside it’s money. We had a switchy back and forth wind, maybe 6MPH so you have to work, but super happy how the JP ran and the Hornady was good to go

How fast are those 88s running?

 

[Lowlight]

2730fps,

The 75gr American eagle I Shot before the 88 arrived was 2940fps

 

[canezach]

I get its not important from what you are saying... so it looks like it comes to reloading components and the x47 is easier to find powders for. I would offer IMR4064, varget, and 4350.... Vs just 4350

You offer IMR4064, Varget, and 4350... vs just H4350? Aside from H4350 (and I'm going to include IMR4350 and AA4350 in that), the 6.5 Creed can also use H100V, H414, IMR4451, Reloder 16, Reloder 17, Reloder 26, Varget for the lighter bullets, and I'm sure I'm missing a couple. Adding Shooters World powder's foray into a 4350 formula into the mix, there are now at least 4 powders named 4350 alone! And all are available to ship or at my LGS. If you think the x47 is "easier to find powders for", you're sorely mistaken. To say the ease of finding powder is a plus for one but not the other is disingenuous.

 

[RNWRKNP]

Yep I shot in heels
View attachment 6936604View attachment 6936605

Forum guy, shooting an AR, oops

LMMFAO!???

 

[Campguy308]

2730fps,

The 75gr American eagle I Shot before the 88 arrived was 2940fps

I'm running a 80 berger out of a 24" 223AI at 2875. Just trying to get a comparison. I might switch to the ELDs when my Bergers are gone.

 

[Stpilot12]

Oh shit... here comes another thread. “Which is better under 800yds, 224 Valk vs x47”

 

[Lowlight]

I'm running a 80 berger out of a 24" 223AI at 2875. Just trying to get a comparison. I might switch to the ELDs when my Bergers are gone.

The JP is 22” with a .545 BC on the 88gr so it works pretty well, the x47 will win, after 700 the Valkyrie gets it butt kicked in the wind, very similar to a 168 at 2650/2700 in terms of drift

 

[steve123]

Let's debate 22x47L vs 22 Creed and also 6x47L vs 6mm Creed, lol. I can tell you all about 20x47.

My 6mmFatRat will kick 224V up one side and down the other, JK. Nah, next barrel might very well be a 224V.

The new 223AI with 28" 7 twist sends 88's at 2850 fps with a congenial load. It sure is mild recoiling! Just think, that's like a 6.5 with 123's at the same speed, in the wind, but without the recoil of- or energy of. 15" plate at 981Y was easy enough. Hard not to like. Starline brass is pretty good stuff, I found out.

 

[PaC1776]

I was on the fence between these two calibers as well. Went with 6.5 CM. Lots of quality brass available for 6.5 CM compared to 6.5x47L.
You have Starline, Peterson, Alpha, Hornady, and Lapua brass to choose from. In addtion, you can also push slightly higher velocities with the 6.5 CM should you need to.

 

[Campguy308]

Let's debate 22x47L vs 22 Creed and also 6x47L vs 6mm Creed, lol. I can tell you all about 20x47.

My 6mmFatRat will kick 224V up one side and down the other, JK. Nah, next barrel might very well be a 224V.

The new 223AI with 28" 7 twist sends 88's at 2850 fps with a congenial load. It sure is mild recoiling! Just think, that's like a 6.5 with 123's at the same speed, in the wind, but without the recoil of- or energy of. 15" plate at 981Y was easy enough. Hard not to like. Starline brass is pretty good stuff, I found out.

You like the starline 223? I heard it had low case capacity.

 

[hlee]

For those that haven’t figured it out yet, this thread is not “compare 6.5 creedmoor to 6.5x47”. It is “I want a 6.5x47, please validate...”

 

[XLR308]

For those that haven’t figured it out yet, this thread is not “compare 6.5 creedmoor to 6.5x47”. It is “I want a 6.5x47, please validate...”

But what about a 6.5-338 Lapua ???

 

[steve123]

You like the starline 223? I heard it had low case capacity.

I didn't read up on it. It was on sale when I ordered other stuff so I took the plunge. It's holding up well so I'm happy so far and it's consistent. Flash holes centered, etc.

 

[Campguy308]

I didn't read up on it. It was on sale when I ordered other stuff so I took the plunge. It's holding up well so I'm happy so far and it's consistent. Flash holes centered, etc.

I'm looking for something besides LC to run in mine. Eyeing the GBW headstamp primed brass from Midsouth.

 

[THEIS]

But what about a 6.5-338 Lapua ???

Hi,

Well a lot can be said from having Lapua 139gr Scenars exiting the muzzle at 3800fps

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Ledzep]

I liked my March alright. Only complaint was the 6400 mil turrets and the parallax was a little touchy. Very clear glass and it tracked fine for me taking into account the 3% offset or whatever it was. I might grab another one down the road-- I sold the first and went to a PST gen 2 to pocket the difference and spend it on cars-- but I think if I were to get another one it'd be for a hunting rifle for the weight (I trust March over Leupold).

I have my doubts about "inherent accuracy" as a factor of case geometry alone. Case geometry, bullet selection, powder selection, etc... sure, maybe there are some cases that are a little easier to tune with available components. But those that are not so easy to tune are just waiting for the right powder or reamer design to be in the same, or very similar boat. My general suspicion with the 6.5x47 vs. 6.5 creedmoor debate is that if you had more or less equal rifles and components, you'd get more or less equal accuracy results. One thing to keep in mind is there are very few factory 6.5x47 rifle and ammo makers out there, and very many factory Creedmoor rifle/ammo makers out there so it should be no wonder that on average Creedmoors don't group as tight because a significant percentage are using lower quality components (barrels, factory ammo limitations, etc..).

I've often wanted to build up a precision 7.62x39 to prove the "inherently inaccurate cartridge" myth wrong, but it's admittedly a lot of money for no real gain or statistical significance.

 

[Hairy Biker]

Like everything, it has been done before, and I remember articles in the 1990s about custom loading the 7.62x39 for accuracy.

Which is why I really want to run a 303 British out of a bench gun and/or an AI.

 

[BallisticPrimate]

 

[Hiker12]

Steve what does that really mean?

Does it mean the guy has been working with the new Lapua small primer CM and found the 47 more accurate? Or that maybe he also choose the 47 for some other reason, maybe even before people had good data and experience with the newer small primer brass. Also, who would choose large primer 308 over small, if they were BR guys, same for the 6.5?

While the BR guys I know certainly are fastidious with their reloading, some pioneering, many are also chasing exactly what the big winner shot. I have to believe, after going to a couple of these matches it isn't always the cartridge itself that was magic.

It's an older post here but I just started reading it. Far as benchrest guys and the x47L goes. They like the cartridge do to quality of the brass, pressures and offers larger accuracy node range than the CM does. BR guys don't like a lot of neck tension. The brass is thick enough that they can turn the necks to true it and to get desired thickness . These guys change out custom barrels like changing socks. If you have a barrel 6.5mm good for 1500 rounds they would probably change it out at 800 -900 rounds. We're as a tactical shooter would run it out to the end.
Just my opinion here tactical shooter can't go wrong with x47L or CM . But Bench rest comp shooter would go ×47L if I had only 2 to pick from. I can say this for susure because I shoot both styles. Have done BR comp at Williamsport. Hope mmy 2 cents helps

 

[cottonant]

Saw this thread topic, read the entire first page, skipped to page 3 and could have gone forever without seeing these Lowlight pics

OP, almost all will likely agree you just can't go wrong with either caliber. Almost 3 years ago Joe Walls was so very kind enough to call me back about an OTM order and while chatting he stated if he had to choose one caliber and could own this only one, it would be the 6.5x47.

That was enough for me, but this it was before 6.5 Creed small primer Lapua brass. With almost 800 pieces of 6.5x47 brass I won't be changing to 6.5 Creed anytime soon (although I do have a little shorty 6.5 Creed hunting gun), but have recommended the 6.5 Creed to folks I have gotten into the sport simply because of the Lapua brass, factory ammo, little extra velocity, etc.

I do like that I can run Varget and H4350 in the 47, but out of the 1/2 dozen or so friends with 6.5 Creeds that I shoot with, every single one of them shoots lights out.

 

[jakelly]

For those that haven’t figured it out yet, this thread is not “compare 6.5 creedmoor to 6.5x47”. It is “I want a 6.5x47, please validate...”

How do you figure that? You know @Squat isn’t the OP right?