6.5 Creedmoor w/ Small Rifle Primer

[powerspc]

Just starting load development on 6.5CM, looking for [starting] load data on;

Bullet: Hornady 140gr ELD-M
Powder: H4350
Primer: FED205M
Brass: Lapua SR
Barrel: 26" Bartlein
Twist: 1-8"

Hodgdon shows; Start 36.0gr/Max 40.0gr with Hornady Brass, FED210M

Reloading experience on a scale of; Novice-Fair-Good-Very Good-Excellent-Superior: Good->Very Good
But, first time using Small Rifle Primers and can't find any published data. My common sense says take 90% of 40 and start at 36.0gr but curious to see if anyone is shooting this same load. Thanks!

P.s. I've been through the 'Depot' but 28 pages of posts is a lot to slog through!

 

[CUBUFF89]

Bullet: Hornady 140 ELDM
Powder: H4350
Primer: Fed 205
Case: Lapua SR
Barrel: Tikka 24"
Twist: 1:8"

I started at 40gr and have worked up to 43gr for 2760 fps and sd of 9 fps. But I did this carefully and it is safe in my rifle. You would have to determine if it is in yours. Btw, with previous lot of 4350 I was at 43.3 gr so there is some lot to lot variation.

 

[Lunchbox27]

Everything you're looking for.

6.5 Creedmoor

I'm in the process of building my 6.5 Creedmoor and I have a few boxes of their 120gr AMAX factory loads, but once those are gone it to the table. I've seen a few loads on here, but they are spread out all over the place. Figured we need a spot for all of them to go. Bullets I'm interested in...

www.snipershide.com

Your lrp/srp primer isn't going to change that there is a known load with H4350, RL16, etc. It will change how much longer the brass lasts at the case head.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Start with the CCI Small Rifle MAGNUM primer. It will save you some trouble when the temps get colder.

 

[.30kal]

Most find a good node between 41.8 and 42.4. Work up slowly, of course, and good luck!

 

[powerspc]

Start with the CCI Small Rifle MAGNUM primer. It will save you some trouble when the temps get colder.

Yeah, I noticed that a lot of guys were using the CCI 450's; I already bought the 205's so I'll probably give them a go and see how they do knowing I can fall back on the CCI's if needed. I am in cold weather country.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

Here is my initial comparison of SRP brass with small magnum primers versus standard brass with Federal 210M (match). Bottom line is CCI 450 magnum SRPs perform about the same as Federal 210Ms - keeping in mind the former is being used in heavier, lower-internal-volume brass (Peterson) than the latter (Hornady).

I just finished an initial load workup with my first order of SRP brass, using CCI 450 Magnum Small Rifle Primer.
Peterson 6.5CM SRP
Berger 140gr Hybrid
40.3 (low) or 41.2 (high) grains H4350, 2727 / 2796 fps, ES 5 (10 shots), 24 (5 shots) respectively
CCI 450 (small rifle magnum)

Previously, I loaded Hornady and Prime (Norma) brass. Interestingly, I found low and high nodes at exactly the same powder weights.
Hornady 6.5CM
Berger 140gr Hybrid
40.3 (low) or 41.2 (high) grains H4350, 2730 / 2790 fps respectively, Multiple sessions, spreads 12-35 fps (brass quality)
Federal 210M

For my rifle, 40.3 and 41.2 grains H4350 seem to be magic - similar velocities with different bullets (Berger 140 Hybrid, Hornady 147 ELD-M), brass, and (now) primers). The 40.3 weight seems to provide the best ES - especially in the Peterson brass. I had no idea what to expect with the magnum SRPs so I started low (39.7gr H4350) and worked up in 0.3 grain increments. I quit at 41.2 grains because I was at 2800fps, which is satisfactory for me.

Accuracy with the Berger 140 hybrids has been great with the limited experience I have with them (under 50 rounds). At 300 yards, I got sub-1-inch groups with Hornady brass. The Peterson brass yielded similar results, but keep in mind it was brand-new brass with 0.007" more headspace than the fireformed Hornady.

Edit: A buddy of mine uses standard (non-magnum) SRPs in Lapua brass with RL16 and H4350 and says the non-magnum primers work fine for him.

 

[TSpork]

I’m about to start pretty much with exactly these same components.

4350
Lapua brass
140 ELD-Ms
205Ms

 

[powerspc]

I’m about to start pretty much with exactly these same components.

4350
Lapua brass
140 ELD-Ms
205Ms

Post as you go; you’ll likely be ahead of me since I think my barrel is still about 3-4 weeks out. Thanks!

 

[XLR308]

Bartlien 5R 1-7.5" twist finished at 23" SAAMI Chamber done by Kelbly.
Lapua case.
CCI-450
H-4350 41.4 GR
147ELDM
2740FPS average with 205 rounds on barrel.
Typically shoots in the .4" range so better than I am capable of consistently.

 

[Gustav7]

41.5 41.8 went down to 40.0 Looks like from what I read up on it should be good.The primers no matter how low I go seem to I guess youde say mushroom up..they push out around the strike... Anyone know is it normal sometimes to see this or am I coming to close to extreme loadout?

Yes my Savage does the weird primer mushroom-y thing even on starting loads. Pay attention to other signs for pressure like heavy bolt lift and ejector swiping.


Savage 10 factory 24" barrel
147 ELDM's
Starline SRP brass
CCI 450
41.8gr H4350
~2710fps

 

[powerspc]

I ended up at:

140gr ELD-M
Fed205M Primers
41.5gr H4350
26" Bartlein/Single Point Cut barrel
1-8" twist
~2755 fps (avg)

My Cadex craters primers, it just does. As others have said, look for other signs. You probably have this but just in case:

Understanding Pressure :: Primal Rights, Inc

Reading pressure is a required skill that all shooters must have. Whether you are shooting factory ammunition or your own handloads, you absolutely must be able to detect and interpret pressure signs on your fired brass.

www.primalrights.com

 

[Jmccracken1214]

Tikka 24”
Berger 140
42.8gr h4350
Starline small primer brass
Cci450

2740ish in the tikka, but runs 2800 in most other rifles

 

[mustang-cars]

Over 7,000 rounds of 6.5CM I've always used CCI 450's in Alpha brass. H4350. Always ends up somewhere in the 42.0-42.5gr of powder. Bartlein barrels 26" and Defiance action. 140 ELD-M's at 2775-2835 is where the velocity usually ends up.

 

[wil_pt]

I bought RL16 and H4350 when I completed my 6.5 creedmoor build. Found very good loads initially using RL16, 140gr and 147gr bullets, Starline SRP, and CC450 so didn't bother messing with H4350. Now that match season is over, I will begin testing this powder using 130 ELD, 130 RDF and 130 OTM, Lapua brass and CCI 450. I know some people don't like load devt but I really enjoy experimenting with different combos.

 

[Gustav7]

I bought RL16 and H4350 when I completed my 6.5 creedmoor build. Found very good loads initially using RL16, 140gr and 147gr bullets, Starline SRP, and CC450 so didn't bother messing with H4350. Now that match season is over, I will begin testing this powder using 130 ELD, 130 RDF and 130 OTM, Lapua brass and CCI 450. I know some people don't like load devt but I really enjoy experimenting with different combos.

Throw those RDFs in the trash and grab some of Sierras new 130 SMK

 

[spife7980]

Let me know which trash can you throw them in so I can go pull them out. RDFs are bad ass. 130 rdf is my chosen 6.5 bullet.

 

[wil_pt]

Throw those RDFs in the trash and grab some of Sierras new 130 SMK

Thanks, I'll go get some. I've read how shooters have no success with the RDFs but I still want to give it a try.

 

[Gustav7]

Let me know which trash can you throw them in so I can go pull them out. RDFs are bad ass. 130 rdf is my chosen 6.5 bullet.

I've heard inconsistent issues with the 70RDF, which is why I didn't choose it. Heard good things about the 115RDF, and then bad/inconsistent things again about the 130RDF....

I take it the 130's have not been finnicky for you? Even a newtered dog humps sometimes (that could honestly apply to my statement too lol)

Thanks, I'll go get some. I've read how shooters have no success with the RDFs but I still want to give it a try.

I'm all for trial and error.... I did load development for one of my AR's like 6 times last year, with 4 different bullets...and will prolly do at least 2-3 more with the 50-55gr varmint class bullets next spring.

 

[spife7980]

I had issues with the 70 rdf but that was in a 9 twist. I put them in a 7 twist and they shot great, they are just too long for a slow twist rifle.

I really like the 130s, in my 20" creed Im loading 40.9 h4350 and its going 2660 and they are shooting great.

Also, I even shoot them blems mostly and they still perform. But seriously, Im running lowish now so if you throw them out let me know where.

 

[wil_pt]

Try this:

 

[bbhank]

Im running small rifle primers in H4350 140 gr eld
41.5. To 41.8 went down to 40.0 Looks like from what I read up and it's she ok s the primers no matter how low I go ... Anyone know is it normal sometimes to see this or am I coming to close to extreme loadout?
The accuracy in this load at 150 yards is 3 holes in one with the 41.5 so Ide hate to drop that

This is called cratering, it is the first sign of high pressure. basically there is so much energy that the primer material pushes into the space around the the firing pin and firing pin hole. I try to stay away from loads that crater

 

[Gettingbetter]

Currently running H4350 @ 40.4 grains (2730 FPS), CCI #200 Primers, Lapua Brass, RDF 140 Grain projectiles. I tried this same load also with CCI #400 primers and got the same results. SD of 8 and ES of 22 on a 20 round Test. A bit higher than I would like but throws great groups at 300 yards.

I just started testing another load with RL16 - 43Grains, Lapua Brass, FED210M Primers, Hornady 140 Grain ELD Match. This round is throwing less the half inch groups at 2936 FPS. 5 shot string shows ES-3 SD-1.9. Will continue to play with this.

GAP 6.5 Creedmoor
26" Bartlein Barrel
1:8 Twist

 

[MarinePMI]

This is called cratering, it is the first sign of high pressure. basically there is so much energy that the primer material pushes into the space around the the firing pin and firing pin hole. I try to stay away from loads that crater

This is also caused when a rifle's firing pin and bolt was designed for LR primers only. A smaller firing pin, and bushed bolt face makes this false "sign" go away.

This a known issue with SRP brass in many commercial rifles.

 

[Aussiedan]

Thanks, I'll go get some. I've read how shooters have no success with the RDFs but I still want to give it a try.

 

[Rockdoc173]

Your lrp/srp primer isn't going to change that there is a known load with H4350, RL16, etc. It will change how much longer the brass lasts at the case head.

+1^^^
There's some convention out there that says drop your previously established load 10% and work back up if you change primer sizes, where do these things come from?? I'm not talking LR to LRM, I saying LR to SR. For me, in these times, I'm not going to redo my whole load to go from a LR to a SR unless that change somehow disrupts my data. I usually don't run at the very top 5% of pressure either so safety is not something I'm concerned about with that particular primer change. If I'm just starting the load though, I likely won't worry about it.