6.5 Creedmoor

#251
demolitionman said:
Aimsmall, and Skigolf, you both have helped tremendously for getting me on the right track with my creedmoor. Lots of good information from you throughout this thread that i peruse through often. Thanks!
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Not a problem my man. Don't know if I was all that useful but I know Ski was.
Also Ski.... You were right on with the factory amax (140). Hell, it's shooting flatter than my vld loads. 2850ish. I was shooting beer cans at 400 yards yesterday afternoon with them. Almost ask why reload?? JK
 
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#254
Well they are really close to factory according to dope. Might be 25fps faster. Luckily it is a fresh 8lb jug.

Ski it was 85 ou the day I worked up to this load. Dont think it will be hotter than that this weekend.
 
#256
I"m definitely interested in how the RL 17 goes. I've got some loaded up with 40.4gr. of RL 17. Seems a bit light, but it's the load i had that shot good using 140 amaxes and RL 17. I went until i found pressure signs, which came around 41.4 or 41.8 IIRC.

I"m going to chrono some loads after work, so i'll report back on whether i get pressure signs on this lighter load.
 
#257
Tried some loads last night. Don't really have chrono data, the chrono kept giving me errors (the sun was low on the horizon at my 6, so i think it was casting shadows and having a hard time picking up the bullet). My question is, how much affect can neck bushing size have on a load?

I had 4 loads, with 2 powders. Once load each with new factory brass, and one load each with 1x fired FL re-sized brass using a 0.288 neck bushing. As shown in the picture below. So the two groups on the left were both with 40.4gr of RL17 top one was new brass bottom one re-sized. I felt like i pulled the third shot, so that's why I fired a fourth, but it was still only a .54" group counting shots 1,2,4. I have a .287 neck bushing as well, is it possible that with that powder, it just needs a little more neck tension to tighten the groups up? Does anyone know what the neck tension is on factory brass?

IMG_20130515_211602_446_zps086fcca9.jpg


Note: the top group with H4350 included my CB shot. Also this load was just tossed from a powder drop and loaded, the other 3 groups/loads were trickle charged.
 
#258
Measuring loaded cases the necks are .292, so a .288 bushing is .004 neck tension. I think once you get beyond .003 of neck tension, it really doesn't matter much anymore except that you are working the brass a little harder. FWIW, I use a .288 bushing also. I have a .289, but I have not tried it yet.

Not sure why the RL17 opened up on the once fired brass. Usually, that shoots better than new.

I would think seating depth would have a bigger affect on accuracy than neck tension.
 
#259
40gr Rl17 and berger 130 VLD hunting's ran super super good in my gun....but then again the 130vld shot good no matter what I put behind it so long as the length to ogive was 2.183/.184....(LRP)
 
#260
Sent my LRP bolt off to have the firing pin hole bushed. I was seeing primer cratering on hand loads well below book max and on factory loads. When it comes back, I will be getting back into load development.

I just ordered a couple boxes of 140 gr Berger Hybrids. I now have 4 powders and 3 different bullets to try out. Going to be a fun couple of weeks getting the LRP dirty. Hoping to shoot an F Class match in June with it. It will be my first.
 
#262
thrusty said:
I haven't seen too many loads for the 142 SMK in this thread...anyone have any to share?
Click to expand...

Here's one I started messing around with,

142smk
Hybrid 100V
New and fully prepped Hornady brass
COL 2.780"
CCI 200 primers

This was shot at 100 yards using the OCW method. I'm going to go with the 40.9 load and play around with the seating depths.
 

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#263
I just ran 7 shots with a 139 scenar on top of 40.8 reloader 17 fgm210m. 2.239 to ogive. All I can say is wow... Chronyd at 2780 average at 10'. Was the first load I have tried but I'm gonna bump it up a few grains and see where it goes in terms of velocity.

null_zps56065d87.jpg
 
#265
Aimsmall55 said:
I just ran 7 shots with a 139 scenar on top of 40.8 reloader 17 fgm210m. 2.239 to ogive. All I can say is wow... Chronyd at 2780 average at 10'. Was the first load I have tried but I'm gonna bump it up a few grains and see where it goes in terms of velocity.

null_zps56065d87.jpg
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That's looking good Aimsmall. I picked up some 139's the other day so seeing this was good. I like the RL17, but I'm reading that a lot of people are reporting back temp variations. It's getting hot here, so I guess I'll find out myself soon enough.
 
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#266
I have a bunch of IMR4350 for when the H4350 runs out. Will be down to 1.5# of H4350 after I load the next 100 rounds. Will probably go ahead and develop the load in June and see how it shoots - I expect to lose some velocity.

AimSmall - my kid went to A School at Meridian. I was there last May to see him. Took a side trip over to K&M
 
#267
KevinSC said:
That's looking good Aimsmall. I picked up some 139's the other day so seeing this was good. I like the RL17, but I'm reading that a lot of people are reporting back temp variations. It's getting hot here, so I guess I'll find out myself soon enough.
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I got out to the range this afternoon because it was close to the hottest day of the year so far here where I am in SC. Out of the first 8 rounds of the Berger 130g target vld's loaded with 40.5g of RL17, I ended up with three cases that had ejector marks on the case heads. This load previously showed no over pressure signs at all in 65-70ish degree temps I originally tested it in. I guess the rumors of this powder being temp sensitive hold some truth. I think I can drop down and still have an accurate load though. I'll post the results when I get some more loads worked up.

Kevin
 
#268
Interesting Kevin. Today when I shot it was around 75 degrees. And I was running 40.8 with a 139. Ismh that my load was not compressed nor anywhere nor the lands. Also I think that the scenars have a smoother bearing surface than the vlds. That's just a guess. What temp was it at your location???
 
#270
RL17 is not any more temperature sensitive than H4350 or Varget in my opinion. I did temperature and velocity testing and found that they are all much less than 0.6fps/F variation for all those powders in multiple calibers I shoot.

However, I've found that RL17 does not spike pressures are quickly and thus many people load to pass max with subtle pressure signs that they don't notice. It just doesn't pop primers at max like other powders, and you have a larger margin before that happens. Then when people shoot in hotter temps, they blame the powder.
 
#271
KevinSC said:
I got out to the range this afternoon because it was close to the hottest day of the year so far here where I am in SC. Out of the first 8 rounds of the Berger 130g target vld's loaded with 40.5g of RL17, I ended up with three cases that had ejector marks on the case heads. This load previously showed no over pressure signs at all in 65-70ish degree temps I originally tested it in. I guess the rumors of this powder being temp sensitive hold some truth. I think I can drop down and still have an accurate load though. I'll post the results when I get some more loads worked up.

Kevin
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You might look at seating length as well and jump the bullets in little more.
 
#272
Thanks for the reply VKC. Without looking at my data, I'm pretty sure I had another node at a lower charge that I will go back and try. I agree about jumping the bullet a little more, but I'm thinking that one was already jumped around .040". I've followed your testing with this powder and I think it will be fine. I like it so far, it meters well and burns really clean.

Kevin
 
#273
bornhunter04 said:
I"m definitely interested in how the RL 17 goes. I've got some loaded up with 40.4gr. of RL 17. Seems a bit light, but it's the load i had that shot good using 140 amaxes and RL 17. I went until i found pressure signs, which came around 41.4 or 41.8 IIRC.

I"m going to chrono some loads after work, so i'll report back on whether i get pressure signs on this lighter load.
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Chrono'd some loads with 140 amax and 40.4gr of RL17 it was about 85F, average speed was about 2650 out of a 22" barrel.

At the same time i chrono'd 140 amax and 41.2gr of H4350 and they clocked in at 2600 again out of the 22" barrel. I have a tight chamber so my OAL is about 2.739. I'm fine with the speed the rifle is showing, especially considering I have a shorter barrel.

Working up a load with 129gr SST and superformance powder to match factory loads. Will report back once i shoot them and get chrono data on them.
 
#274
bornhunter04 said:
Chrono'd some loads with 140 amax and 40.4gr of RL17 it was about 85F, average speed was about 2650 out of a 22" barrel.

At the same time i chrono'd 140 amax and 41.2gr of H4350 and they clocked in at 2600 again out of the 22" barrel. I have a tight chamber so my OAL is about 2.739. I'm fine with the speed the rifle is showing, especially considering I have a shorter barrel.

Working up a load with 129gr SST and superformance powder to match factory loads. Will report back once i shoot them and get chrono data on them.
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Would be interested in what velocity spreads you got with H4350 vs RL17. I'm finding a little more spread with RL17 and my gun seems to like to 140 gr AMAXs more. But with RL17 and 142smk I get less wind drift still staying submoa.
 
#275
VKC said:
Would be interested in what velocity spreads you got with H4350 vs RL17. I'm finding a little more spread with RL17 and my gun seems to like to 140 gr AMAXs more. But with RL17 and 142smk I get less wind drift still staying submoa.
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I'm going off memory, don't have my log book with me, but IIRC the H4350 gave me an ES of 13, it was all pretty much right there together. The RL17 was pushing 30 for the ES. With the lowest speed being somewhere around 2630. RL17 gave me a couple of spread outliers, with most of them being around 2650. As I'm typing this, I'm trying to remember if the RL17 charges were trickled or not, I know they were weighed individually, so they should have been within +- .1 grain. The H4350 loads i used were all trickle charged.
 
#278
KevinSC said:
Here's one I started messing around with,

142smk
Hybrid 100V
New and fully prepped Hornady brass
COL 2.780"
CCI 200 primers

This was shot at 100 yards using the OCW method. I'm going to go with the 40.9 load and play around with the seating depths.
Click to expand...

Kevin,

Any idea on velocity with the 100v? I just bought a 8lb jug of that since H4350 has gotten scarce.
 
#279
Marcus,

I'm not sure because I don't have a chronograph. That particular load came from Hodgdon's website though, and they reported 2737 fps at 41.5g. Good luck with the powder. The only complaint I have with it so far is that it leaves a good bit of residue on my case necks. It meters really well though and seems fairly accurate.

Kevin
 
#280
Man I'm impressed with the 140 hybrids. I shot then yesterday at 900 yards vs a 139 scenar and a 142 smk. The Berger dominated. Wind deflection was barely even a factor. The 139's shot ok but the 142's sucked. Ismh that I'm new to the 142 just to be fair. So don't get pissed. I was running 42.6 h4350 and jumping about 100/1000"s. 2825 fps. We had 3 inch circles painted on steel. With the hybrids it was a freaking cake walk.
 
#283
Aimsmall55 said:
Man I'm impressed with the 140 hybrids. I shot then yesterday at 900 yards vs a 139 scenar and a 142 smk. The Berger dominated. Wind deflection was barely even a factor. The 139's shot ok but the 142's sucked. Ismh that I'm new to the 142 just to be fair. So don't get pissed. I was running 42.6 h4350 and jumping about 100/1000"s. 2825 fps. We had 3 inch circles painted on steel. With the hybrids it was a freaking cake walk.
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I've been wanting to try out the 140 Hybrids myself. I have a 100 round box of the 140 target loads, but I haven't started playing with them yet. I worked up some Lapua 139 Scenars and RL17 last week, and they shot pretty well for me too. I've been fortunate so far though, because I've had good luck with pretty much everything I've experimented with. I was very surprised at how well the 142 smk's and Hybrid 100V shot. I used them this past weekend at an 800 yard F-Class match at my club and they grouped great with a 15-20 mph wind. Do you prefer the 140 Berger Hybrids over the Berger match and hunting 140's?

Kevin
 
#284
KevinSC said:
I've been wanting to try out the 140 Hybrids myself. I have a 100 round box of the 140 target loads, but I haven't started playing with them yet. I worked up some Lapua 139 Scenars and RL17 last week, and they shot pretty well for me too. I've been fortunate so far though, because I've had good luck with pretty much everything I've experimented with. I was very surprised at how well the 142 smk's and Hybrid 100V shot. I used them this past weekend at an 800 yard F-Class match at my club and they grouped great with a 15-20 mph wind. Do you prefer the 140 Berger Hybrids over the Berger match and hunting 140's?

Kevin
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Honestly I really can't tell any difference in the hybrid vs the hunting in accuracy at long range. As a matter of fact I shot in a f open match with the 140 hunting vlds and my first two relays had 26x. Dropped the ball on the 3rd relay and shot an 8. Cost me 2nd place. So they both shoot equally well. I've been shooting nothing but the hunting vlds until recently. Got 200 left I want to save and had 600 hybrids laying there so I said what the hell. I'm pretty sure that my hybrid load is running a little faster than the vld load with equal powder weights. Only difference is seating depth. But I'm jumping the hybrid even more than the vld. Guess the bearing surface is a little smoother. Didn't have time to chrony so I'm guesstimating 2835ish vs the 140 hunting at 2815 to 2820. Haven't shot the target but the only differene is jacket is thicker to handle more of a beating like shooting in matches or a hot bore. Or so they say
 
#285
I have some of the 140gr Berger hybrids coming to try in my creedmoor that I had PCR build. Right now with horn addy factory 140s it is shooting 1/2 or less when I do my part. Excited to try the bergers
 
#286
dirtking said:
I have some of the 140gr Berger hybrids coming to try in my creedmoor that I had PCR build. Right now with horn addy factory 140s it is shooting 1/2 or less when I do my part. Excited to try the bergers
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Hard to beat that factory 140 amax. Never ceases to amaze me. Hell, they are running 2850 out of my rig and shoot 1/4 moa quite a bit. I know hornady loads to pressure specs but how in the hell they get a 140 bullet at 57,000 CPI to run that fast is beyond me. I duplicated the load on the box and it was like 2740.
 
#287
Yea this rifle has really opened my eyes to precision shooting. I hope to get these hybrids shooting well to take advantage of the extra bc they offer. Will test them out on deer this fall also.
 
#288
So I am still testing the IMR 4350. Rifle is stock Savage 12LRP in 6.5CM. All targets were at 100 yds.

I worked the load up a little higher with the 140 gr AMAX. 40 grains is really nice. This is a 5 shot group with 140 gr AMAX's. I found another node at 41.7. I'm going to try it again later when it is a little hotter here. Don't want to go too high until the temps get up so I can check stability or lack of it.

I loaded some 142 gr SMK with the IMR4350 as well. Same base to ogive as the AMAX. The second pic is 39.9gr with the SMK. This gun likes 40 grains of IMR4350 it appears.
 

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#289
Did an OCW test today with 3-shot groups...love the caliber and love the gun.
H4350 powder, F210M, brass fully prepped and trimmed to SAAMI specs.
All at 2.81" COL

142SMKs:
IMG-20130607-00147.jpg
140AMAX (with additional 142SMK loads):
IMG-20130607-00148.jpg
142SMK smallest group:
IMG-20130607-00149.jpg
 
#290
I have not seen H4350 for a while, so when I saw some A4350 I grabbed it. Does anyone have some experience with this powder? I did get a very fast email back from Accurate with their guidelines:
Bullet weight: 120 grains.

Start load: 40.0 grains (2525 – 2625 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 45.0 grains (2825 – 2925 Ft/p/sec). Compressed LD = ca 103%

Bullet weight: 129 grains.

Start load: 40.0 grains (2500 – 2600 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 44.5 grains (2850 – 2950 Ft/p/sec). Compressed LD = ca 103%

Bullet weight: 140 grains.

Start load: 39.2 grains (2450 – 2550 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 43.5 grains (2750 – 2850 Ft/p/sec).Compressed LD = ca 103%
 
#291
I learned this weekend that my 6.5 creedmoor shooting the 130gr VLD Hunting with 41.6 h4350 run ballistically almost identical to the same load with a 140vld hunting bullet. +/- 12.5 moa to 600. I used all the same dope on both bullets with equal success on 12x12 steel.
 
#293
I've been playing with running 42.6gr of H4350 with the 140 Hybrids. So far that is working really well and it's what I shot at the PTS match. I have also played with 42.52 gr (yes, I weighed it to the hundredth), but honestly, it doesn't shoot enough better to warrant the extra work to load that way. FWIW, I had 2 consecutive hits at the mile (1740 actually) this weekend with the hybrids. Might have been the conditions as i tried the VLDs when it wasn't as warm out and they went stupid in transonic.
 
#294
Skigolfmike said:
Looks like you found a load. Are you shooting on the 22nd? That will give you a pretty good idea how it shoots at long range.
Click to expand...

I'm going to run my 308 short stick for the match - my 6.5CM still sits in a donor SPS stock that won't even let you put a bipod on.

I may load up some more 6.5 and shoot after the match to see how it does at distance....I'm holding off on testing out my Berger hybrids until the new stock shows up.
 
#296
For anyone who is wondering, I looked through this thread for guidance on creating a load with H4350 and Berger 130 VLDs. Below is all the loads with that combination in one place.

130 VLDs with 44.0 H4350 and CCI 200s

130gr VLD Hunting with 41.6 h4350

24" Krieger
130 gr Berger Hunting Bullet
44.0g H4350
CCI BR2
2.196 @ ogive,
2915 fps

Hornady brass
130gr VLD'S
Fed 210 primers
2.810 OAL
42. Gr H4350

130 vld with
44.0 h4350 at 2.140 to ogive
Fgm210m. New brass
8.5 twist 27" bartlein
62 degrees 93 humidity 400 asl
1) 2923
2) 2925
3) 2931
4) 2917
5) 2919

I just tried 43.8, 44.1 and 44.4 H4350 under 130 VLDs today, three 5 shot groups at 100 each today. 43.8 and 44.4 shot .518 and .513 moa receptively. The 43.8 had the smallest group, but also the biggest (.29 and .73). Odd thing is the 44.1 was just under an inch on all three groups.
I think I'm just at the top of one node with the lower charge and at the bottom of another node with the 44.4 charge

18” Bartlein 8.5 twist with SAS Arbiter Suppressor
44.5gr H4350
130gr Berger Hunting VLD
CCI 200 primers
2810fps
nice little group

130 VLD
44.0 H4350
CCI 200
2.810 OAL, jump ???
2930 fps, 7.8 mil to 1K

That summarizes as 41.6 to 44.4 with lots of action around 44.0 with a few different primers. Proceed at your own risk obviously, 41.6 is the max in the Berger manual for this load so work up as is customary.
 
#297
rhildy77 said:
Have you guys had better luck with hornady match ammo then your own reloads. Just asking cause my reloads aren't as good as factory and its really making me mad.
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My reloads of 140vld, 130 vld, and 120amax are all better than any of the off the shelf match box for me.
I have read over and over however that guys are getting ridiculously good accuracy out of the hornady match ammo so much so they don't feel the need to reload for accuracy reasons.
 
#298
demolitionman said:
My reloads of 140vld, 130 vld, and 120amax are all better than any of the off the shelf match box for me.
I have read over and over however that guys are getting ridiculously good accuracy out of the hornady match ammo so much so they don't feel the need to reload for accuracy reasons.
Click to expand...


Not to change the subject but where you at in central Ohio I'm from Jamestown right up the road from Xenia. Could you share your loads on the 130 and 140 VLD's
 
#299
Blackops Precision Recon 6.5mm Creedmoor:
Sierra 142 SMK
Hornady Brass
Fed 210M Primer
RL17 Powder - 42.3 GR
2.838 COAL

Chronograph Data:
2718
2707
2703
2698
2721
2720
2704
2725
2734
2734
H: 2734
L: 2698
ES: 36
SD: 12.2
AV: 2716

That data was taken at 50 degrees so I need to see if it changes much for summer time.
 
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#300
JSTARSZ said:
Blackops Precision Recon 6.5mm Creedmoor:
Hornady Brass
Fed 210M Primer
RL17 Powder - 42.3 GR
2.838 COAL

Chronograph Data:
2718
2707
2703
2698
2721
2720
2704
2725
2734
2734
H: 2734
L: 2698
ES: 36
SD: 12.2
AV: 2716

That data was taken at 50 degrees so I need to see if it changes much for summer time.
Click to expand...

Was this with the 142 smk?
 
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