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6.5 Creedmoor
- Thread starter Sportin Wood
- Start date
I did not. This was "fine tuning" work from previous range sessions that found nodes in the vicinity of 39.x and 41.x loads. ... literally hundreds of rounds down range. And this was followed up with yet more rounds down range confirming what was found here.
Briefly, H4350 has nodes at 41.4-5 gr and 39.0 -2 gr. That data will be followed up with yet more testing .
I have not yet found a way to put Hundreds of rounds down range onto a single picture to post on the Internet.
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How far out of the lands are you? I’ve heard that the Hybrids like a little jump. Mine seems to like about .050 run at the rifling. I found a node for mine @ 41.7-41.9 with H4350 in Lapua brass. Avg 2769. I’ve started with the Bergers in a new stick and trying Reloder 16 with this one. Also Starline LP brass since the big firing pin doesn’t like small primers.
Distance to ogive on loaded rounds is 2.247" On the Hornady Comparator is 2.262" to lands. (avg of 10 measurements) I need to try something more like what yer doing... tho my results are decent. Havent chono'ed the 41.5gr H4350 yet. Or tried any other powders.
My RPR had an MV of 2682 using factory Hornady 140 ELD Match ammo. Crazy how close that is to yours.
By the time you are done with load development you're going to need a new barrel.
Load 41.5 and send it
Load 41.5 and send it
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What speeds have you been getting with that? My gasser is getting just under 2690 w/22”bbl.
Do you mean the blank target? I don’t remember where I got it but I can pm you one if you like.
Yes, please ! Thanx. I've spend alot of time, thot and money trying to develop that on my own, but yours is better.
I tried to send a pm but it wouldn’t work so I’ll just post it here. It’s not my design but I can’t remember where I got it.
Some graph paper, a paster and a compass should have sufficed. ?. Don’t over complicate.
Yeah... I did all that. (posted pics elsewhere, even using blaze orange aiming "black" ) But I like THIS ^^^ arrangement of all the lines and squares and circles better.
There is a thread in here somewhere that has a bunch of targets like that as PDF moa or mil.
@JOE62 @garandman
Found that exact one by a google search "load development target"
www.tapatalk.com
@JOE62 @garandman
Found that exact one by a google search "load development target"
Practical Riflery and OCW Forums-OCW OFFICIAL TEST TARGET
The file can be downloaded by clicking on the following links MOA Target in PDF format MOA Target in JPG format
www.tapatalk.com
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I don't remember. I quit using H4350 awhile ago because I could never find it. I said 41.5 based on the fact it's a known load, and his groups showed the rifle liked it.
I personally use RL16 with 140's and Accurate 4350 with 130's.
Thanks. I didn't see your post when I posted the link.There is a thread in here somewhere that has a bunch of targets like that as PDF moa or mil.
@JOE62 @garandman
Found that exact one by a google search "load development target"
Practical Riflery and OCW Forums-OCW OFFICIAL TEST TARGET
The file can be downloaded by clicking on the following links MOA Target in PDF format MOA Target in JPG format
Has anyone had much experience with the Barnes match burner 140 bullets? I’m just starting my load development with the Hornady a-max 140g, using reloder 16 with coal of 2.825. I’m doing a ladder test tomorrow with 41grains to 43.4 grains, in .2 grain increments. I’ll post results tomorrow! I’m also thinking about getting the Redding vld micrometer seater for my dies, is it worth the upgrade?
I’ve never used the Redding one but I have the Hornady Micro adjusters on my dies and it definitely helps with precision adjustments. I adapted one to my Lee DL seater and when I find the setting for a certain bullet at a certain length, I can just put it on that setting and go. With the die bottoming out on the shell holder, it’s the exact length each time. As long as I use the same shell holder it doesn’t matter how many times I change dies or even presses, it’s still the same.
Seekins Precision Havak Pro HP1
6.5 Creedmoor
24" barrel
about 2815fps
Starline small primer
CCI 450
140gr ELDM
41.9gr H4350
Burris 3-15x50 SCR mil/mil
AAC 51T brake (no suppressor this time)
Timney 510 trigger
Foundation Stocks Exodus
Atlas bipod and Wiebad mini-fortune cookie rear bag, bench
6.5 Creedmoor
24" barrel
about 2815fps
Starline small primer
CCI 450
140gr ELDM
41.9gr H4350
Burris 3-15x50 SCR mil/mil
AAC 51T brake (no suppressor this time)
Timney 510 trigger
Foundation Stocks Exodus
Atlas bipod and Wiebad mini-fortune cookie rear bag, bench
Went to the range today to shoot some factory Berger 130’s in 6.5 CM. Chrono’d with Labradar at 3043 SD 9.6, ES at 40, 20 rounds fired, no pressure signs, but yikes, seems a bit speedy. My handloads with 41.8 gr of RL16 get 2950. 26” Spencer bbl MPA rifle with Curtis Axiom action.
FWIW - I shot factory while I was waiting for my new AI AT 24" 6.5 barrel to speed up. At 175rds I chrono'd using the labradar at 74 degrees, 130' elevation and 48% relative humidity:
Berger 130 - 2907fps
Prime 130 - 2941
American Eagle 140 - 2719fps
Hornady 140 - 2737
Hornady 147 - 2686
Hornady 120 Amax - 2936
I did some shooting at Quantico at 1,000 over the weekend (barrel had 208rds through it) and while I haven't trued the results, a quick look tells me the Prime and Berger 130s were moving a bit faster then when I used the LR the week before.
Here are my results from the ladder test this morning. I’m somewhat lost on where to go other than a 41-41.6grains. Using Rl16/prime brass/140g eldm,cci200 primers. The velocity difference between the two rounds done exactly the same is throwing me off. First numbers are from the blue target, the second are from the red/white targets.
I did 3-4 shots and waited a bit, sometimes checking the target so I don’t mess up where each round landed. I did a deep clean on the barrel 40 rounds before this, since it was a used barreled action that I bought.
I don’t know about your situation but I’ve had mine do the same thing after letting the barrel cool. Maybe your ammo got heated more. I shoot at my house so I’ll shoot about 10 rounds then stop to load some more letting the barrel cool. So my ammo never gets heated up. Since you are only checking 1 round at each charge, you don’t really know what kind of ES you are getting with your ammo. I’m just kind of thinking out loud.
I shot 2 rounds at each charge, same day, roughly the same conditions. I did the first 13, took maybe 30 minutes off. Did the second set of 13 on a separate target. I cannot say for sure that the ammo didn’t heat up, but it was still pretty early in the morning and everything was in the shade. I did realize that the one node I have, at least 41-41.4 on the first string and 41.6 on the second is a known good load, but is 2784 FPS enough? I enjoy shooting for groups, but would like to eventually go to prs Competitions. I am fairly new to all of this though. Any preference on the Barnes 140grain match burners?
I cleaned the barrel doing the whole copper removal and then another solvent cleaning until the barrel seemed perfectly clean. I had the thought that it could be fouling, but would it really not settle over the now 63 shots through the barrel since I’ve received it and cleaned it? I’ve usually had my barrel go back to “normal” after 5 on my other rifles. The previous owner said he put 400 down it, all factory ammo, but I’m not sure if that info is relevant.
Yes, first and foremost you want a consistent load that will work in all weather conditions. Run a hot load on a wet day and it will bite you in more ways than one.
Edited to add:
FWIW, in 2017 I ran an AR for almost all of my matches that year. These were not gas gun matches but club level prs matches. 6 or 7 matches total. I was shooting against some very talented bolt shooters, to include a well known and several times published author/competitor that has completely changed our sport (missed a tied score with him by 2 points, he took 2nd and I 3rd). All this was to answer a personal question i had, to find out if a gas gun could be competitive with bolt rifles, with no expense spared.
Long story short my load shot a 140 ELD at 2710fps when the barrel was new and by the end of the season I was down to 2680ish. That combo brought two trophies home and 3-4 finishes in the top 10-20% of shooters. Only one match was a total loss and that was all me. PRS matches are won by getting into a stable position quickly, not by being the guy that is shooting a load that is the fastest for caliber on the range. The following year when I returned to my bolt rifle I kept that same load/accuracy node, which due to a longer barrel had me in the 2750-2770 range. It brought me more trophies home.
That said, much of the talk at matches will be about calibers, loads and velocity. Pay attention... the guys that claim to be running loads that are 5-10% over max rarely will finish at the top.
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@JOE62
I’m using a bighorn tl3 with a hawkhill barrel. The previous owner had this built by redbeard rifles in Texas. It’s sitting in a MPA comp chassis with a bix’n Andy TAC sport trigger. I’ve reloaded for a little bit, but that was for my 308 just using the common pet loads with 175gr bullets with varget powder.
@Niles Coyote
I did not know a hot load would be more effected by weather than a “normal” load. That definitely shows my skill/knowledge level. I definitely won’t be chasing the higher velocity now, and will back down my starting charges on the next trip out to the range. Trying to build a charge for this rifle has opened my eyes up so much more to what I’m doing wrong and how bad my approach to this is.
I’m using a bighorn tl3 with a hawkhill barrel. The previous owner had this built by redbeard rifles in Texas. It’s sitting in a MPA comp chassis with a bix’n Andy TAC sport trigger. I’ve reloaded for a little bit, but that was for my 308 just using the common pet loads with 175gr bullets with varget powder.
@Niles Coyote
I did not know a hot load would be more effected by weather than a “normal” load. That definitely shows my skill/knowledge level. I definitely won’t be chasing the higher velocity now, and will back down my starting charges on the next trip out to the range. Trying to build a charge for this rifle has opened my eyes up so much more to what I’m doing wrong and how bad my approach to this is.
Perfect choice of brass. No game yet. I'm preppin to just like you.
From Barnes' website: test barrel was 24" 1:8 Bartlein with Fed210 primers and Hornady brass
So, it appears that my 40.6 was a super hot jug of RL16. That explains the pressure at 41.8 before. Once that one was gone, the same charge in a new container was 80 fps slower. Re did my load development today and I am now running 41.8, giving me 2800 fps and single digit SD.
I went up to 42.0 grains with zero pressure, but 41.8 is where Ill stay. 2800 fps is what I get from ELD 140 ammo and I am getting the same groups with
Handloads
I need to find a place outside of my state that is decent driving distances to get 8lb jugs. My problem is Maryland limits to 5 lb max, so I am forced to buy 5 (1lb) jugs at once (online/in stores) and this is where my problems arise... every jug Im going to have to test again, even in the same lot #
First world problems, but hopefully this helps others
40.6 RL16 ( hot jug)
ELD-M 140
Hornady
CCI200
2800 fps
41.8 RL16 ( not hot jug )
ELD-M 140
Hornady
CCI200
2800fps
what lot is your HOT jug of RL16? Mine seems to be FAST compared to other peoples loads
1lb jug lot # 85010y051518
Latest loads on 8lb jug of lot # 85010 x070418 seem about 100-125 fps lower at same powder charge
1lb jug lot # 85010y051518
Latest loads on 8lb jug of lot # 85010 x070418 seem about 100-125 fps lower at same powder charge
I'll check when I get home today, but that lot number looks like my current one with 41.8 grains. The hot one started with 7.
My barrel also seems to be fast, as Hornady 140 ELD ammo is 2800 fps.
I just picked up some Rl16 to try my hand at loading 6.5CM for a new rifle. is this something that is typical of powders in general or this powder specifically?
BTW @ Lunchbox27 what is your barrel length?
BTW @ Lunchbox27 what is your barrel length?
Lot to lot variation is pretty common though not to the extreme some have mentioned here where they're seeing 150 fps more MV at the same charge weight. Varget is notorious for two lots being pretty significantly different. H4350 and RL16 have both been, in my experience at least, pretty consistent. For the magnums, I've had pretty good luck with both Retumbo and H1000
I’ve got 3-1 lbers of H4831 that seem to be extremely fast for this burn range. I tried it in a 7mmRM and a 6.5x284 and would run into pressure before I got even decent velocity. I may try it in my Creedmoor and see how it does. It seems to be in the 4350 burn range. On second thought I may just run a trail of it and light it up.
I have seen Varget and IMR4064 swing 20-40ish in terms of lot to lot. This was the first time that I have ever seen such a large swing. Now that I've found my node I'm going to open the rest of the jugs and test 2 rounds of each jug over chrono so at least I know.
My barrel length is 24" and running an Omega can
Hornady 135 A-Tip
Lapua Brass
CCI BR4
2.235 from the ogive for a 2.890 OAL
42.8 RL-16
2829 (Magnetospeed number)
SD 4
ES 6
.225” group
.002 neck tension
Hornady 140 ELD-M
Lapua brass
CCI BR4
2.244 from ogive
42.4 H4350
2804
SD 5.5
ES 14
.156” group
.002” neck tension
26” Bartlien in a Bighorn TL3 action
70 F
44% Humidity
1650’ Altitude
1500’ DA
Lapua Brass
CCI BR4
2.235 from the ogive for a 2.890 OAL
42.8 RL-16
2829 (Magnetospeed number)
SD 4
ES 6
.225” group
.002 neck tension
Hornady 140 ELD-M
Lapua brass
CCI BR4
2.244 from ogive
42.4 H4350
2804
SD 5.5
ES 14
.156” group
.002” neck tension
26” Bartlien in a Bighorn TL3 action
70 F
44% Humidity
1650’ Altitude
1500’ DA
