Has anyone had any success with H4350 FedGM210s and Barnes 140g Match Burners out of 24” 1:8 twist bolt rifles? I have a good working load with Berger 135g Classic Hunters, but I’m wanting to save those for hunting season. Recently acquired some 140g Barnes MBs, but haven’t done much research. Open to suggestions for a target load muzzle velocity that has performed well for others. Will begin working them up this weekend.
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6.5 Creedmor 140g Barnes Match Burners
- Thread starter RldrNewby
- Start date
had pretty good luck with them so far I used 41.7 gr - 42gr h 4350 wanna try them with imr 4350 and reloader 17 while i still have some left
h4350 41.7 41.9 rl 17 40gr IMr 4350 41.5 41.6
max 2746 2760 2720 2719 2737
min 2731 2738 2704 2696 2701
avg 2738 2745 2712 2707 2718
sd 6.1 9.1 8.1 10.2 12.8
all with federal 210 primers Barnes 140 gr match burner bullets and once fired hornady brass from a 26'' bartlein barrel with upward of 4k + rounds through it .
sorry no pics of groups to go with the data but 1/2 of my cards are missing I assume gone
good luck finding what your gun and you like . sorry when I hit save it smashes it all together
my gun has shot factory ammo for 4k +rounds I went so far with a factory length or ever so slightly longer length of 2.218 have not really played so much yet with seeting depth yea I am keeping speeds around 2600's to 2746 for my sort of local 600 yard range which will allow me to use the 6.5 stabal and n555 there and the faster the 2746 to 2856 ish speeds for 1k range in pa if I ever get the chance to see it again I also liked the berger 140 and the hornady 140 bthp match got a few of the nosler 140 competition I wanna try still .also my cheap rear was trying to stretch the powder I have so I have only gone to 42 gr of any of the powders .
h4350 41.7 41.9 rl 17 40gr IMr 4350 41.5 41.6
max 2746 2760 2720 2719 2737
min 2731 2738 2704 2696 2701
avg 2738 2745 2712 2707 2718
sd 6.1 9.1 8.1 10.2 12.8
all with federal 210 primers Barnes 140 gr match burner bullets and once fired hornady brass from a 26'' bartlein barrel with upward of 4k + rounds through it .
sorry no pics of groups to go with the data but 1/2 of my cards are missing I assume gone
good luck finding what your gun and you like . sorry when I hit save it smashes it all together
my gun has shot factory ammo for 4k +rounds I went so far with a factory length or ever so slightly longer length of 2.218 have not really played so much yet with seeting depth yea I am keeping speeds around 2600's to 2746 for my sort of local 600 yard range which will allow me to use the 6.5 stabal and n555 there and the faster the 2746 to 2856 ish speeds for 1k range in pa if I ever get the chance to see it again I also liked the berger 140 and the hornady 140 bthp match got a few of the nosler 140 competition I wanna try still .also my cheap rear was trying to stretch the powder I have so I have only gone to 42 gr of any of the powders .
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That’s good stuff. Thank u sir! In my only personal experience with 140g bullets (ELDMs), & and from poking around different places, it seems most 6.5CM 140 class projectiles can see good performance characteristics somewhere in the lower velocity nodes of 2710-2730fps. Looks like your data meshed pretty close to my theory, so that’s the velocity range I’ll try to get up to, & see how they do.
Just looked up the Barnes Data, and I’ve gotta ask, how did you do your seating depth? I typically load to mag length depths of around COL 2.830”, do seating depth tests, and usually land a little shorter, but Barnes is recommending a much shorter COL. Wondering if that’s a typo? Maybe it’s just a much shorter bullet than the ELDMs & Berger Classic Hunters? I’ll try what they recommend, but it seems mighty short. Would think that would put the bullet deeper into the neck, which would prematurely compress a load, or find pressure sooner?
If you have a bullet comparator, I would start at the same length to ogive as your other loads and see how that does. Tweak from there.
I had my best 140gr Match Burner luck with IMR 4350 @ 43.3gr, Av 2770, 2.820 COL.
I'm a wobbly old man who doesn't get an opportunity to shoot LR often, and I still printed .671MOA @ 500yds.
I'm a wobbly old man who doesn't get an opportunity to shoot LR often, and I still printed .671MOA @ 500yds.
Loaded up 3 rounds each in 0.2g increments, starting at 40.2g, & ending up at 42.0g. Seated them to a CBTO depth of 2.176 +\- 1.0, which has worked well for me on another load, and that CBTO ended up measuring out to an average COL of 2.795 +\- 7.0 (the tip lengths varied a good bit), which is much closer to Barnes’ load data than I originally thought it would be. I did widen my powder search zone a little more than I typically do, bc I recently swapped to Nosler Brass, & my initial findings lead me to believe that Nosler Brass was reaching my old Hornady Brass velocities about .4gr sooner (more testing needed to confirm or debunk that). Really wanted to shoot the test this evening, but it’s not looking good for being able to make it to the range. Will post my results whenever I get the test done.
You must not be too wobbly... that’s some dang fine shootin!
I can't take credit. The rifle makes me look good.
Well. I managed to squeak in some hurried range time Sun evening. Had a myriad of issues, but it wasn’t a total washout. I shot a 3 shot sighter group, then shot round robin for the remainder of the test. I was pushed for time trying to get the test in before dark, and to make matters worse, black clouds & wind rolled in after string one, so I didn’t have a chance to let my barrel cool AT ALL between string 2 and string 3. I KNOW... terrible idea, but I was hoping to at least get velocity data. The barrel & suppresser got so hot on string 3, that I deemed it essentially worthless, so I did omit that string from my findings. I also had my suppresser loosen up on the first two shots of string 2. Geez, what a disaster!!! For what it’s worth tho, the groups weren’t horrible, aside from the suppresser getting loose, and the muzzle velocity data was actually really consistent across string 1 & string 2, so I think I have an idea of where I want to focus in on the next time I can test. I think I’ll narrow in on 40.8 to 41.4, and take my time there trying to control the tempo/barrel temp a little better. The surprise of the day was my 3 shot sighter group at the beginning charge weight 40.2g to kick things off. It shot a .402” group with a MV of 2626 & SD of 5.7. The muzzle velocity & SD held up when I shot it again on the round robin, but the suppresser fiasco hosed the group. Anyhow, I said I’d post my results, so here they are, the good, bad, & the ugly. 
Picked up a used CBI 6.5 barrel on here and did some half assed load development with 140 matchburners and 4350. Not sure I had a group over 1" and most were about a half inch. Settled on the smallest group (maybe 0.35 MOA) and loaded up 60 to take out to a 750 yard range and they did great. I didn't try to get ES/SD numbers this time out, but planning on reworking the load later this summer.
Using:
26" Criterion 1-8
140 gr Matchburner
42.4 gr H4350
2.850" (throated/eroded long, to lands is right around 2.9 if I remember right)
velocity according to my magnetospeed was 2850-2865 on the two I had it on for.
I purchased quite a few of these back when you could find them for about $0.25 per onsale. Now they're back in stock from what I saw and listed at $0.36-0.39. Not worth it for that price IMO, I'd just pick up ELDMs. Although maybe they'll go back down once this weird shit ends.
Using:
26" Criterion 1-8
140 gr Matchburner
42.4 gr H4350
2.850" (throated/eroded long, to lands is right around 2.9 if I remember right)
velocity according to my magnetospeed was 2850-2865 on the two I had it on for.
I purchased quite a few of these back when you could find them for about $0.25 per onsale. Now they're back in stock from what I saw and listed at $0.36-0.39. Not worth it for that price IMO, I'd just pick up ELDMs. Although maybe they'll go back down once this weird shit ends.
I’m a creature of habit, & would’ve preferred Berger’s, then ELDMs, but couldn’t find either, so picked up the Match Burners on a whim to try. I think they have potential. Not disheartened yet. I had a rough day at the range and shot waaay too fast due to time constraints & thunderstorm that rolled in. Thanks for the info!
I had good luck with the 140 Match Burners over 41.8gr of H4350 @2.820" C.O.A.L in my 700 with the Factory 26" tube. Velocity was around 2770 in new Hornady Brass over 210M's and they held .75 MOA out to 600yds or so which is much as i could expect from a factory barrel and action. I did find that the BC was off a little based on matching up my Strelock App to field data out to 1000. I wound up using a G1 of .550 and the holdovers tracked at that value YMMV. I used several hundred of them at K&M for their LRP class and was very happy. In the end the Match Burners were cheaper and shot better in my gun than 140 ELD's. Lets hope they work in the Criterion I just installed as I have a few hundred left.........
Good info. If I can get a load together with them that’ll deliver that level of consistency, I’ll be happy. They didn’t shoot terrible for me, but weren’t as consistent as my Berger’s were on the initial OCW. In all fairness to the Barnes bullets, it was most likely me shooting too fast, as opposed to the bullets. Won’t have a chance to re-test for awhile, but still pretty hopeful I’ll get a great practice load out of em.
Update: Finally got around to revisiting the 140g Match Burners. Took a closer look in the 41.3 to 41.5 area. Loaded up one sighter at 41.3g, five at 41.3g, five at 41.4g, and five at 41.5g (all at CBTO 2.176). Then, I loaded three rounds each of the 41.4g load increasing 5thou in CBTO with each 3 round string until I reached essentially what I deem to be Max Mag Length for me at 2.825” COL or CBTO 2.200.
My results today were much more promising this go around. I had a little more time today (not a whole lot) and was able to better control my barrel temp, & pace. Plus, some days I just plain shoot better than others, & today was a good day. The pleasant surprise was in the Seating Depth check. Shot the first bug hole group I’ve gotten in awhile now… 0.126” group!!!! Wooohoo! I’m guessing my throat had eroded on me bc 2.176” CBTO used to do great, but it took pushing the round out another 10thou longer to get back on track.
Consensus: These bullets will do just fine. All three of the 5-Shot groups I tested today came in right around the 1/2” mark at 100yds. The MV was where my rifle seems to like em, and although the SDs weren’t impressive, they will do. Of the 20 rounds composite total I shot today at 41.4g, the AVG MV=2714 & SD=11.0.
Below is the target pic from today. It’s small and a little busy bc I somehow managed to cram it all onto one sheet of 8.5x11 printer paper in Excell. Targets are 1”x1” with the little squares measuring 0.5”x0.5”.
My results today were much more promising this go around. I had a little more time today (not a whole lot) and was able to better control my barrel temp, & pace. Plus, some days I just plain shoot better than others, & today was a good day. The pleasant surprise was in the Seating Depth check. Shot the first bug hole group I’ve gotten in awhile now… 0.126” group!!!! Wooohoo! I’m guessing my throat had eroded on me bc 2.176” CBTO used to do great, but it took pushing the round out another 10thou longer to get back on track.
Consensus: These bullets will do just fine. All three of the 5-Shot groups I tested today came in right around the 1/2” mark at 100yds. The MV was where my rifle seems to like em, and although the SDs weren’t impressive, they will do. Of the 20 rounds composite total I shot today at 41.4g, the AVG MV=2714 & SD=11.0.
Below is the target pic from today. It’s small and a little busy bc I somehow managed to cram it all onto one sheet of 8.5x11 printer paper in Excell.
Targets are 1”x1” with the little squares measuring 0.5”x0.5”.
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That is one of the coolest load development targets ive seen. could you share the file?Update: Finally got around to revisiting the 140g Match Burners. Took a closer look in the 41.3 to 41.5 area. Loaded up one sighter at 41.3g, five at 41.4g, and five at 41.5g (all at CBTO 2.176). Then, I loaded three rounds each of the 41.4g load increasing 5thou in CBTO with each 3 round string until I reached essentially what I deem to be Max Mag Length for me at 2.825” COL or CBTO 2.200.
My results today were much more promising this go around. I had a little more time today (not a whole lot) and was able to better control my barrel temp, & pace. Plus, some days I just plain shoot better than others, & today was a good day. The pleasant surprise was in the Seating Depth check. Shot the first bug hole group I’ve gotten in awhile now… 0.126” group!!!! Wooohoo! I’m guessing my throat had eroded on me bc 2.176” CBTO used to do great, but it took pushing the round out another 10thou longer to get back on track.
Consensus: These bullets will do just fine. All three of the 5-Shot groups I tested today came in right around the 1/2” mark at 100yds. The MV was where my rifle seems to like em, and although the SDs weren’t impressive, they will do. Of the 20 rounds composite total I shot today at 41.4g, the AVG MV=2714 & SD=11.0.
Below is the target pic from today. It’s small and a little busy bc I somehow managed to cram it all onto one sheet of 8.5x11 printer paper in Excell.
View attachment 7661742
I’ll try. Don’t know if my laptop will let me, but I’ll give it a try. The margins & spacing took forever to figure out, but I thought it was cool to get it all onto one piece of printer paper
Sorry man. Only laptop I have right now has a VPN on it that blocks the hide. If there’s a way to private msg me on here, do so with your email address, & I’ll try to email it to you. If the formatting holds up, and you like it, I don’t care if you share it on here.
I got curious, and ran a Ladder experiment at 500yds on the 140g Match Burners. This was done to re-test the initial range of charges I used when I started load dev. At the onset of load dev, I tried a course OCW/Velocity approach at 100yds (30 rounds gone), followed by a repeat of the same approach on a subsequent trip testing at a finer resolution of charge weights, coupled with a brief seating depth test (30 more rounds gone). With my initial approach, I did end up with a load that shot really good in my rig at 500yds. However, I began contemplating so many peoples opinions that I’ve read regarding no such thing as velocity flat spots. Those opinions got me curious, & began wondering if my Chrono could have been misleading me, & I wondered if I could arrive at the same, or close to the same, charge weight I ended up choosing by using a Ladder technique at distance with no Chrono at all. Just one round each of the initial charge weights, shot in order, from 40.2 to 42.0g, in 0.2g increments, all aimed at the same target, with no adjustments made to the scope.
Before going any further, I must say that prior to this test, I had only tried a Ladder once before, but it was only at 300yds, and I ultimately ended up with only one group, the size of a tennis ball, & I couldn’t easily discern any standout clusters or patterns; therefore, I prematurely abandoned the idea of a Ladder. In retrospect, that was premature. There could’ve been so many reasons why I didn’t have much luck the first time I tried a Ladder, ie. My reloading techniques were not where they are now, my shooting skills were also likely not where they are now, and I probably didn’t shoot the ladder far enough away to easily discern the dispersion which takes place. I would love to try the Ladder again at a further distance to see if more clarity can be obtained, but for the time being, the plates stands available to me at 800 & 1000 are so grown up in vegetation, I can’t clearly see the plates to accurately record the impacts right now. I’ll be cleaning them off soon, but until then, I can’t try it further than 500 until I get them cleaned off.
FWIW, the Ladder I did at 500yds was VERY INTRIGUING, and only used up 10round! I’m thinking if I had run this 10 shot Ladder at distance when I initially began Load Dev, it would have revealed a similar starting range of charges for the follow up finer resolution 5 shot/charge OCW. I’ve learned so much from the folks on this forum, and one thing I picked up on & will be trying going forward is to not attach or use the MS Chrono for the initial Ladder or follow up OCW/Seating Depth tests. Once I find a charge & seating depth I like, and I have verified the load grouping at 500, THEN it makes sense to gather Velocity Data for DOPE to be able to push them out to distance where the load can be evaluated/fine tuned for vertical at 1000.
For comparison, below are pics of the 41.4g load I ended up at using my initial approach.
