6.5 Grendel AR15...

El Wray

El Wray

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Minuteman
Nov 25, 2010
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Illinois, USA
www.el-wray.blogspot.com
#1
I'm gonna make my first attempt at my shooting league's F-Class competition next year with a Sabre Defence 6.5 Grendel Heavy Bench Target upper. Being an avid fan of the AR15 platform and the 6.5 Grendel cartidge, I thought I'd give it a shot! Any opinions on holding up against the .308's???
 
#2
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

A .308 is capable of greater performance than a 6.5 Grendel ever will be.

I am sure you have seen what some folks are doing with 155gr Scenars or 208gr AMAX, even the best 6.5 Grendel rounds are struggling to keep up.

That said, the 6.5 is a great rifle. You can get better performance than a good deal of .308 loads with much less recoil.
 
#3
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

the great thing for me personaly is that the Grendel is on an AR15 PLATFORM and that is why it is endeared to me--the 308 gas guns have their place but are larger and heavier for hunting--
would like to hear about your accuracy in the SD barrel--have only 1 but it is 204--let us know how it chronos also--I feel you
give up nothing significant to a 308 up 700 yds---1000 yds will be the deciding factor in competitions---just got word from a very reliable source here on the HIDE that a high ranking Al-Q.
was dispatched at over 1000 by one of our boys
 
#4
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

I do think it's possible to hold up to a 308 since the Grendel stays supersonic at longer distances due to the BC of the round. Additionally, there's less bullet drop at 1000yds on the Grendel. That being said, you're only shooting 1000 which is right where the 308 starts to die off . . . so, you're not going to have any advantage. The 308's are a little heavier and tend to have a little less wind drift problems even though they drop farther.

So, I think you can keep up - if you're good! But, you probably wont have an advantage. I have both rounds and I really love the Grendel, but the 308 is sooo tried and true that it's hard to not love as well.

My 2 cents.
 
#6
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

I have competed with 5.56, Grendel, 308 and a host of others. Although I like the Grendel, it will never beat a 308 for energy.

If all you are doing is punching paper, you don't need too much energy to get through a piece of cardboard at 1000 yards. The Grendel will easily remain supersonic at 1000 yards.

I think far too many people want the Grendel to be like a little 308, and thereby run into alot of problems by loading it too hot. Look at the Grendel as an intermediate cartridge between the 5.56 and 308 and it will serve you well.

I have used both the Grendel and a Sako TRG22 in local sniper type matches. Both rifles have performed very well. The Grendel has noticeably less recoil than a 308, and as the Grendel is usually in an AR15 type rifle, you will have an easier time meeting any short time limits than you would with a 308 bolt gun. I don't see a tremendous difference or advantage between the two in accuracy. Well prepared rifles shooting quality ammo should shoot under MOA in either system.

I don't think the Grendel is giving up anything to the 308 at 1000 yards if all you are doing is punching paper. If it is only for paper punching, I would probably give the edge to the Grendel at 1000 yards because most Grendel rounds don't go transonic until around 1300 yards, while many 308 rounds are beginning to be transonic at 1000 yards. Of course, that will depend on barrel length and the load in a 308...but a 308 shooting a 150 grain bullet out of a 20 inch barrel just won't be as competitive as a Grendel shooting a 123 grain bullet out of a 20 inch barrel.
 
#8
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: El Wray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any pic's out there of 6.5 Grendel/AR15 platforms??? </div></div>

They look exactly like the 5.56mm AR platforms.

Seriously. Unless someone tells you it's a Grendel you can't tell the difference.
 
#9
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: El Wray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any pic's out there of 6.5 Grendel/AR15 platforms??? </div></div>

Use the search function Sir. There are many really nice builds done by members here.
 
#10
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

Maybe we can get a common thread for fans of the 6.5 Grendel cartridge built here! Photos always help...
wink.gif
 
#13
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

I'm interested in buying/building a new upper receiver for feral hog hunting here in north Texas with an AR-15 platform, and I'm debating between 6.8 SPC II and 6.5 Grendel. With most shots under 200 yards, and generally much closer, which would be a better caliber for my intended purpose?
 
#14
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

If you're set on the 0-200 yd range, that's what the 6.8 SPC was designed for so go with it. Cheaper and more available. But, a while back, I was on the same fence as you, the 6.8 or the 6.5? But what finally won me over to the 6.5 Grendel was the advice I got from an instructor of a Designated Marksman course which I took part in. His emphasis during the course was the fact that as a D.M. you're dealing with any range from 0 to 500 yds. So a cartridge that can be used up close and personal and also be able to reach out and touch something is definitely the M.O. of the 6.5 Grendel! His personal recommendation was the 6.5 Grendel with a 20" barrel. Because I planned on using it for F-class competition, I took it one step further and opted for the 24" barrel. So in my opinion, if you want more versatility and optimal performance out of an AR15 platform, and willing to spend a little more, go with the 6.5 Grendel!
 
#15
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: El Wray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any pic's out there of 6.5 Grendel/AR15 platforms??? </div></div>


Attached is 6.5 Grendel the other upper is .223

hs04tj.jpg
 
#16
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

F.Y.I.

Hornady 16" Test Barrel Ballistic Comparison:
Velocity (fps)/Energy (ft-lbs)

6.5mm Grendel 123gr A-MAX
Muzzle: 2350/1508
300 yds: 1885/971
500yds: 1612/709

6.8mm SPC 110gr V-MAX
Muzzle: 2550/1588
300 yds: 1893/875
500 yds: 1524/567

BONUS: An Alexander Arms 6.5mm Grendel 123gr Lapua Scenar out of a 16" barrel is still SUPERSONIC at 1000 yds (1226 fps/410 ft-lbs)!!!
 
#18
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

<span style="font-size: 17pt">The post below is from a couple of months back. Most of my groups these days look like one ragged hole with this rifle. The Grendel is so much fun to shoot. Just be prepared to reload for best performance or have some deep pockets for factory ammo.</span>


I'd been trying to make some time for getting to the range for quite awhile but with kids, wife and work it was not working out. It took awhile but I finished getting the break-in done. I shot the group below after putting some handloads through the Chrony on a cool Port Angeles morning (42 degrees on the range).

My handloads were:
123gr Lapua Scenars over 30.7gr of AA2520 with OAL of 2.265 and averaging 2605fps, ES of 18.65 and SD of 9.53 through the Chrony. I had the same load pushing a little faster last week but it was also a lot warmer outside that day.

rh1owg.jpg

IMG
 
#20
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

Have shot 5,56 and 7,62. I see the grendel as an "better" 5,56 not as an light 7,62.
I would love to have a 16" recce style rifle in 6.5 grendel.

The grendel gives the ar15 platform longer range and accuracy. For higher energy and range the 7,62 is more ideaal in my opinion.

For a high energy CQB round I would go for the 6.8 spc.
Only to have 4 rifle rounds in a arsenal is not prefered.
 
#21
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Bart Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have shot 5,56 and 7,62. I see the grendel as an "better" 5,56 not as an light 7,62.
I would love to have a 16" recce style rifle in 6.5 grendel.

The grendel gives the ar15 platform longer range and accuracy. For higher energy and range the 7,62 is more ideaal in my opinion.

For a high energy CQB round I would go for the 6.8 spc.
Only to have 4 rifle rounds in a arsenal is not prefered. </div></div>

The Grendel has better exterior ballistics (less bullet drop), particularly once you pass 500 yards, has MUCH better bullets with higher BCs, stays supersonic for much longer than the .308 (well past 1200 yards), and retains more energy (particularly at distance) than the .308.

How is it that the 7.62 is more ideal at range (especially when one considers that the entire package - gun and ammo - is both smaller and weighs significantly less)? The only advantage the 7.62 might have for it is that it's a bigger chunk of lead than the 6.5.
 
#23
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

I think the grendal would be a great fclass choice. For me I want to have a good time shooting. Just staying in position for 20 minutes at a crack prone is work enough. An easy recoiling rifle would be make the day even more enjoyable.
 
#24
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BERTMAN77MK2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice rifle MJPLEO--how about somme build specs+ </div></div>

Thank you Sir,

I had the upper built by Black Weapons Armory in Tucson, AZ. http://www.blackweaponsarmory.com/magento/

It's a Vltor upper w/Daniel Defense Lite 12.0, Satern barrel/bolt combo, BWA flash hider and a Young NM carrier. The lower is factory built Larue w/Geiselle trigger. The upper and lower fit perfectly, I got lucky.

Matt
 
#26
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

Precision Rifle classes seem to be pretty rare in the upper Midwest. The only one that comes to mind is the North American Weapons and Tactical Training Center (NAWTTC), formerly the U.S. Training Center-Midwest, in Mt. Carroll, IL, operated by Impact Training Group. They have a Precision Rifle class coming up in April 2011. Can anyone recommend any others in this region???
 
#29
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

If your F-class is like all others I've ever been around than it isn't the .308 you need to be worried about, it would be the 6.5-284 as FTR is .223 and .308 only. F-open is where the 6.5 Grendel will be competing with lots of go fast high bc bullets.

Your comp may be set up different but most are as above.
 
#30
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Bart Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have shot 5,56 and 7,62. I see the grendel as an "better" 5,56 not as an light 7,62.
I would love to have a 16" recce style rifle in 6.5 grendel.

The grendel gives the ar15 platform longer range and accuracy. For higher energy and range the 7,62 is more ideaal in my opinion.

For a high energy CQB round I would go for the 6.8 spc.
Only to have 4 rifle rounds in a arsenal is not prefered. </div></div>

The Grendel has better exterior ballistics (less bullet drop), particularly once you pass 500 yards, has MUCH better bullets with higher BCs, stays supersonic for much longer than the .308 (well past 1200 yards), and retains more energy (particularly at distance) than the .308.

How is it that the 7.62 is more ideal at range (especially when one considers that the entire package - gun and ammo - is both smaller and weighs significantly less)? The only advantage the 7.62 might have for it is that it's a bigger chunk of lead than the 6.5. </div></div>
If you use the best comparable bullets in the 6.5G(123-139) and 308(155) both Lapuas the 308 will win.
If you use Lapuas in the G and a 175SMK in the 308 then the G may win by a little.
The G crowd has hyped up the cartridge by comparing the best 6.5 bullets with mediocre 308 bullets.
Yes, I have been shooting a G actually 3 since 2005 side by side with my 308 and others.
The 264LBC with a 1.5 degree throat shoots better than the G with that compound throat angle IMO.
Black Hills 123gr SMK 264LBC load will produce sub 1/2MOA right out of the box.
 
#31
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bronco</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your F-class is like all others I've ever been around than it isn't the .308 you need to be worried about, it would be the 6.5-284 as FTR is .223 and .308 only. F-open is where the 6.5 Grendel will be competing with lots of go fast high bc bullets.

Your comp may be set up different but most are as above. </div></div>

THIS......

I'm using a .223 AR spacegun in F/TR and can match up to the .308s just fine. Even to 1K....

But when considering getting out of F/TR and going into F Open, (while keeping the Spacegun platform) I passed on the Grendel for the 6mmARt40. I feel it's better able to compete with 6BR, 6Dasher and even the 6.5x284s on the line.
 
#34
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

I can't comment on the .308. There have been many great cartridges over the years starting with the daddy of them all, the 7x57 Mauser 98. I sporterized one when I was young, out of the military and short on money. I shot many deer with that old Mauser and amazed many of my friends who shot larger 30-06 and such. Those older calibers relied on a lot of brute force but they did the job. When I was looking for something to shoot the local varmint match I was turned off by the 15-20 pound bench guns that I saw. Also many of the older shooters (I'm 68) were shooting 6.5-284 etc. They had huge 2" bull barrels and to be honest I couldn't see the purpose in it. I mean, with that haeavy a rifle what's the point? I happended upon an article on the 6.5 Grendel and some stuff about Arne Brennan and Bill Alexander. What I read peaked my interest. Add an upper to my Rock River AR? I stopped by Black Armory in Tucson and talked to them. I also discussed what I wanted to do with the Grendel. They gave me a parts list($$$$)Vltor etc (like El Wray), all forged and billet machined. I'm an engineer so I know to get an accurate rifle you have to have precision machining, there's just no way around it. If you slop some parts together you can't expect the cartridge to make up the difference. My friend, Bruce, is a retired armorer and firearms instructor and afficianado of AR's so he asked if he could show me the "right way" to put the Grendel together. Since I wanted to use the Grendel for hunting I opted for the 18 inch Alexander fluted barrel. I added a Leupold Mk-4 6.5-20x50mm LR/T M1 with the TMR reticle. I also did some research and experimenting with powder and am impressed with the new Accurate 8208-XBR which has good temperature stability and even burning. It's a tack driver out to 500 yds with a 107 Sierra and I'm loading some Lapua 123 scenars and have a couple of boxes of Hornady 123 A-Max bullets on order. I love this rifle. It's got a soft recoil and does way better than I expected. I agree with the post that said if you think of it as somewhere in the middle etc.
I'd add some pics but I can't figure out how to insert an image, somehow the "enter and image" panel wants a URL and there's no browse to my photo folder.

Merry Christmas!
 
#35
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

I heard from a former Navy SEAL sniper say very simply that 3 things make for a GOOD (sniper) rifle: bullet, barrel and optics. I've adherred to that advice and it seems you have to! Unfortunately, I've only got 2 of the bases covered, cause I'm still waiting on the Vortex Viper PSTs to make it to the streets.

Looking forward to seeing pic's!

Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year to you!
 
#38
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UgashikBob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.5 Grendal Upper from AA Original 24" barrel replaced with 20"LW. Nightforcce scope Jet can.
Grendel1-1.gif
100Nosler.jpg
</div></div>

Nice rifle. What is the camo on that thing?
 
#41
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

just got one built! Haven't got to the range yet, but I'll see if I can get some pics posted later. It's not as fancy as the ones above, but I'm sure I don't have the dollars invested in the ones above. I think it will serve my purpose though!
AA Grendel upper reciever
Sabre 18" SPR barrel, matching bolt, and gill brake
Hogue 12" tubular handguards
PRI low pro gas system
bushmaster bolt carrier and charging handle
built to put on my DPMS lower that I use on my 223 until I can build a dedicated lower to put it on!
Goodluck with yours, I don't see how you can go wrong with a Grendel out to 600yds. Yes ammo is more expensive and as stated before, you should probably considered, if you don't already, reloading for this round.
 
#43
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

Because I see the Grendel as an intermediate cartridge, I have 5.56, Grendel, and 7.62x51. Which one I use depends on the job. Because the Grendel is intermediate, it will usually do most of what either of the others will. However, it will never have as little recoil as the 5.56, nor the true brute power of the 7.62x51. However if I need a rifle that will allow for really fast follow up, and still hit well past 600 yards, the Grendel is really hard to beat.

I don't think a properly set up Grendel gives up anything to a 7.62x51. If anything, the Grendel's short fat case gives it more inherent accuracy.
 
#44
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

Not to hijack this thread, but what sources sell the least expensive 6.5 Grendel ammo? A lot of places are out of stock. Those that have ammo in stock are charging a pretty penny for it. Palmetto State Armory has the best prices I've seen yet. Anybody find less expensive ammo? Does anyone still have Wolf 6.5 Grendel ammo in stock?
 
#45
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to hijack this thread, but what sources sell the least expensive 6.5 Grendel ammo? A lot of places are out of stock. Those that have ammo in stock are charging a pretty penny for it. Palmetto State Armory has the best prices I've seen yet. Anybody find less expensive ammo? Does anyone still have Wolf 6.5 Grendel ammo in stock? </div></div>

Ranger-
It ain't the cheapest, but Midwest is fast and reliable. If they say they have it, I always get whatever it is I ordered three days later.

Grendel:
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Bro...&categoryId=10207&categoryString=653***690***

I just bought a bunch of the 123gr Hornady's - I plan on reloading the brass, so I hope to lower my cost per round over the life of the brass.

Midway has a 8 March 2011 restock date on the Wolf's.

Grendel is a platform that you either need to reload or have a big wallet, at least until more factory ammo like the Wolfs is easily available.
 
#46
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

If you want accuracy at long range Black Hills 123gr SMK load is capable of shooting under 1/2MOA right out of the box with some rifles. Les Baer sells it, 5 boxes at a time.
The rifles(264 LBC) with a standard 1.5 degree throat angle and apx .100 leade shoot that stuff very well, no so sure about the compound throated Grendel.
 
#48
Re: 6.5 Grendel AR15...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to hijack this thread, but what sources sell the least expensive 6.5 Grendel ammo? A lot of places are out of stock. Those that have ammo in stock are charging a pretty penny for it. Palmetto State Armory has the best prices I've seen yet. Anybody find less expensive ammo? Does anyone still have Wolf 6.5 Grendel ammo in stock? </div></div>

J&G's

It appears they only have Wolf soft points in stock right now. AA and MidwayUSA along with several others have 6.5 in stock right now. Also Hornady brass is available and reasonably priced.
 
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