6.5 Grendel build

[ToolsoftheTrade]

Looking to do a 6.5 Grendel build, wondering if anyone on here has experience with this round in an AR,
I am leaning twords the 24" Alexander Arms barrel and bolt.
I already have a upper and lower, going to free float of course,
Anyone have some input?

 

[308crosshairs]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

I have a AArms Grendel complete build flat top upper with a 19.5 Shilen barrel. I purchased 200 rds of AArms loaded ammo 123g Lapua. The rifle shots sub moa at 100yards and also out to 600 yards, have not shot it beyond 600 yet.

The MV with the 123g lapua is running around 2560. I have killed a few hogs with it using the 123g Lapua which were DRT except one which did not go very far. I plan on getting dies soon and loading my own with a better huntin bullet. All and all very happy with the rifle/caliber

 

[widnerkj]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

My brother's first grendel was a 24 AA barrel, witha Magpul PRS stock and a badger stabilizer handguard. and it slams targets with the 123g Lapua's
His second run of the grendel, is built around an 18" AA barrel, with an ACE Socom stock and a larue handguard. and it's pretty awesome so far. He's really likeing the nosler 120's out of it, and the 90 TNT's

Both shoot ragged holes at 100 yards.

Mine has the Sabere defence barrel and I haven't run a round out of it yet. but it's a really awesome round to sling down range.

 

[jasonZ]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

I too am contemplating this build. Shopping lowers to start with and I'm gonna put it together myself. Can anybody help me out and tell me if a 5.56 lower will work or do I need to get something that is stamped as a "multi cal"? I've never built one of these, cept my 223 ar15. Thanks for the info

 

[widnerkj]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

5.56 lower will be totally fine. I don't think they will scrutinize what's on your lower there in Kansas. Just do the upper and play with it untill you decide you want to dedicate an entire rifle around the grendel

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

If you are considering a 6.5 upper you would be doing yourself a solid to at least talk to Specialized Dynamics (scottmilk9).
Great performance uppers from a guy that's been doing AR's quite a while. You'd be paying for performance, not a name.

 

[Controlled Chaos Arms]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

built a lot of them on the 24" AA pieces... had a customer shooting .4 five shot groups from the bench at 100 paces @ 1k feet. he took the rigs out to WY for the opener of the antelope season and bagged some beyond 1k yards @ 4K feet.

the consistency i have seen has been good. the bolts are well made. i would recommend them. also, from time to time midwayusa.com runs some closeouts in recent months on 6.5G barrels that have been stellar. FYI...

hope this helps.

 

[SFC Carpentier jr]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

I have two grendel uppers. One I put togther myself and the other GAP put togther for me. Both of them are really hammers.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

I lean towards the 24" barrel myself. Just to get the velocity. I've owned and reloaded for two of them. Saturday I was testing how well the brake from AA was doing. Pre-brake I noted I was moving clear off the paper (14"x22") @ 300 yds. With brake I was moving about 2-3" at that range. I could easily get back on target and make a second sub-MOA (usually .5 MOA) follow up shot within one second.

My problem with the round is trying to figure out what load isn't going to cause me problems with the brass the second time around.

I also used the Wolf heavy duty buffer spring to give a good slam when feeding. That helped. Someone, won't say who, said I don't need it. I had a few 'fail-to-feed's' So, staying with the Wolf heavy duty Buffer.

As far as reloads, if you do go with the 6.5 Gendel, I've pretty much found that even though the range from low to high is pretty small, if there is any variation at all, that's what it takes to keep it within specs for what the case does in terms of down the barrel pressure.

In summary I've found ballisticly, with the right bullets this round is all it's advertised. Reloading/maintaining brass is a whole nuther matter. But, once you find the right load it'll work a lot longer for you.

-good luck.

 

[Rootshot]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

The Grendel is great but can be temperamental.

Magazine quality / feed issues are hit and miss. I also tried the Wolff extra power spring as part of diagnosing feed issues and found that there wasn't enough gas pressure to cycle the action reliably.

My 22" barrel with a JP Bennie Cooley brake keeps round after round on target.

--Rootshot

 

[bengates]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

If you want to know about all the idiosyncrasies of the round and any problems that may arise in your build, then I would highly recommend contacting Alexander Arms and ask Bill Alexander about what to expect. He told me all about his experiences with developing the round and the current problems that he encounters during testing and building. He's also hilarious and talks a ton, so it's worth the hour on the phone!

Good luck! I think this round is the bees knees!

 

[Controlled Chaos Arms]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

if you're going to build this up i can tell you that there are some specific things that need to be done in order to ensure accuracy and consistency... you aren't going to slap an upper together and experience the results you could unless it has some other things done...

i have found that truing the upper is big factor as is gluing the barrel extension into the upper. yes, i said glue... there are many ways to accomplish this, but i prefer red loctite. the grendel hops around and in a varmint grade weapon i have seen several barrels become loose wearing the upper and certainly degrading accuracy... while this isn't in the military armorer's manual this isn't a military weapon and you're not going to change a barrel out with a wrench while huddling in a pup tent... the red loctite can be melted out with gentle use of a propane torch, so it is removable. i also use it since the volume of fire most grendels see in 24" doesn't lend itself to a great deal of excess heat like that typical of run and gun scenarios thus the red loctite will usually last very well.

if your upper is trued and the barrel glued in, you'll be starting things off right, especially with a heavy barrel profile. don't skimp on the bolt, as bolts are not created equal. generally when you buy AA stuff the bolt comes with it. prior to using your bolt make sure the firing pin has proper protrusion (@ .030" IIRC) and also make sure it is properly alinged and concentric with the firing pin hole in the bolt itself. for some reason a few of the bolts out there have been drilled off center and the dragging firing pin results in hard to explain FTFs and light primer strikes... i wouldn't mention it, but i've seen it too often not to.

i'd also avoid putting in extra tough extractors and/or o-rings. while this is common place in 556, the grendel round at its low pressure extracts very well and if you're going to reload you want rims that aren't trashed after three uses...

there are about ten other things i usually do to help ensure top consistency when building the upper but those are some of the high points. let me know if i can help... like the poster above mentioned, bill is a super guy and he'll visit with you plenty if you can catch him. we've worked together on a couple of different projects and he's gtg...

much luck on your build and enjoy it!


-michael

 

[Mgordon]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

I love the 6.5 Grendel cartridge. I have been shooting mine in competition this year and did pretty good.

I am using a 1-8.5" 22" barrel and getting 1/2 MOA accuracy with 30.2 Gr of AA 2520 with the 123 Scenar.

I'm getting around 2515 FPS with a ES of 8 and SD of 4.

I have hit 12" steel squares at 1165 Yards with the Grendel in competition and its pretty accurate in wind if your calls are correct. In a 15-20 MPH full value wind I was dialing 33.75 MOA of windage and it took about 41 MOA up and an additional 2.5 Mil hold over to get to 1165.

I really enjoy the rifle and its great to shoot, I'm probably selling mine though to fund other projects in the shop this winter and possibly building another next year.

Mark

 

[bvmoney]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

Ive been giving this build much thought. But the limits of ranges around me stop the thought process every time! Damn i hate living n the suburbs.

Faster than 308, lighter package, and cheaper? Whats not to like?

 

[bengates]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

septic-tank13 is absolutely right on the mark!! Bill Alexander told me the same thing - loc-tite the barrel extension into the upper! He also said to use loc-tite on the threads of the barrel nut (Delta ring) when cranking it down. This will decrease the chances of it coming loose, but also the it allows you to crank the barrel nut to 65ft/lbs minimum while it's still wet (standard 5.56 nuts need to be 35ft/lbs). If you get to 65ft/lbs and the nut is not indexed for the gas tube hole, then you have to crank it down further until it becomes indexed. Bill said that sometimes he get's his up passed 80ft/lbs in order to index the holes.

Also, there were several AA extractor claws that came out of the factory a bit too sharp and would cause inconsistant extractions.

Make sure you get the right tools, because you'll most likely break the prongs off of a standard AR-armorers wrench (learned from experience) Brownells has a wrench that has 5 prongs on it and it allows you to use a standard torque wrench to measure the necessary torque.

Good luck. If you do everything wright, then you wont be disappointed in this little demon of a round!!

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

Septic and Mark,

Outstanding information. I had thought about locktite-ing the barrel extension into the upper, but didn't. It fit pretty firm. Initially, when I put the Delta ring/locknut (mine is free floated) on I tried not locktite-ing it. I couldn't get the holes to align that way. Anyhow, I put locktite on the threads as I needed wet-torque to get it into place. And, I'm sure will help keep it in place as I continue to shoot it.

For the most part, I'm happier with this build than the last one as far as accuracy. I'm still having some fits as far as just getting rounds to work consistently when reloading. They'll go the first time so I know it isn't the gun. Anyhow, I make sure to cam over every round and I now have a Wilson Case Gauge so I can check them before I take them to the range and they jam halfway into my chamber...halfway out. I have to beat them out or in to get them to fire or out where I can pull them apart.

Edit: Glad you mentioned the extractors. I am having some problems with mine not wanting to let go. I wasn't sure if it was the load I was using or what.

 

[Scottmilk9]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

I am not trying to start a fight on what Bill says, but i get 1/2 MOA and don't loc-tite anything, I've got thousands of rounds through mine and still shooting well. I truly think that people do things to give them confidence in their equipment, which isn't bad.

 

[Mgordon]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

Were just about all done combining beans on our farm in Ohio and its getting cooler. So there are no shortage of fat woodchucks getting ready for the winter. I need a break in the shop here and there anyway......lol

 

[Controlled Chaos Arms]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Septic and Mark,

Outstanding information. I had thought about locktite-ing the barrel extension into the upper, but didn't. It fit pretty firm. Initially, when I put the Delta ring/locknut (mine is free floated) on I tried not locktite-ing it. I couldn't get the holes to align that way. Anyhow, I put locktite on the threads as I needed wet-torque to get it into place. And, I'm sure will help keep it in place as I continue to shoot it.

For the most part, I'm happier with this build than the last one as far as accuracy. I'm still having some fits as far as just getting rounds to work consistently when reloading. They'll go the first time so I know it isn't the gun. Anyhow, I make sure to cam over every round and I now have a Wilson Case Gauge so I can check them before I take them to the range and they jam halfway into my chamber...halfway out. I have to beat them out or in to get them to fire or out where I can pull them apart.

Edit: Glad you mentioned the extractors. I am having some problems with mine not wanting to let go. I wasn't sure if it was the load I was using or what. </div></div>

i should expand on that a bit... i have been using loctite on the barrel extension regardless of whether it was snug upon initial dry fit or not... this is done so the loctite compound sets up and fills the void... i then use anti seize on the barrel nut. if the barrel doesn't flop around due to being glued in then the nut will hold torque and not need loctite. of the barrel extension i have glued in i have never had a nut come loose. i have had accuracy problems and loosening barrels, both problems that were cured with gluing in the stick... granted, only a handful. 7 or 8 i think over maybe 40some 6.5G builds...

warming an upper to leach the loctite out around smooth surfaces for the purposes of barrel removal isn't bad. but lathering on loctite to the threads makes for a PITA upon teardown and has yet to prove itself necessary in my reflection of the weapons i've built and rebuilt for customers.

ETA *** bill essentially told me that the harmonics and vibration could be troublesome with the 6.5G and that action cured the problem. he also said it was amplified with heavy profile long barrels. i can see that... i mean, not that it can't or doesn't get done obviously, but that upper was never meant to hold something of that length and weight. so when you compound the length, the weight, and now the stress, i can see how problems could arise...

we built a 28" on a hybrid gas system for a customer and it was a pain in the ass from the start. we ended up farming out an upper to be built with monster threads and matching nut... after that, loctite, and 125lbs of torque that .926" barrel @ 28" was a shooter. that dude still competes with it to my knowledge... while truck axle barrels can work, sometimes things go wrong... in some of those cases a little bit of red shit from a tube is your pal...

 

[rcw3]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sandwarrior</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

. . . I'm still having some fits as far as just getting rounds to work consistently when reloading. They'll go the first time so I know it isn't the gun. Anyhow, I make sure to cam over every round and I now have a Wilson Case Gauge so I can check them before I take them to the range and they jam halfway into my chamber...halfway out. I have to beat them out or in to get them to fire or out where I can pull them apart. </div></div>

Sandwarrior

You need to bump the shoulder more when you resize your brass - no question about it.

Please see link below and Rule #1:

http://www.6mmar.com/Info_Page.html

You may also want to look at the section on how to extract a jammed round from a chamber so you don't have to "beat" them out.

You may need more cam over with the bottom of the die on your shell holder as some presses have quite a bit of play and flexion in them and won't bump the shoulder of cases enough unless you do that (that would seem to be the case with your set up).

Robert Whitley
www.6mmAR.com

 

[bengates]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not trying to start a fight on what Bill says, but i get 1/2 MOA and don't loc-tite anything, I've got thousands of rounds through mine and still shooting well. I truly think that people do things to give them confidence in their equipment, which isn't bad. </div></div>

During my conversations with Bill, he said that he does it on all of his rifles so that he doesn't have to redo anything after the fact. He gave an example that out of 10 guns he builds 2 are perfect shooters with absolutely no tuning, 6 need to be fit and tuned, and the last 2 are absolute nightmares and require extensive work. Appearently the harmonics incurred with this round and longer barrels (24inch) are just crazy. He even said that he has more problems with sighting in Grendels than with Beowolfs, even though the 50cal is quite abusive.

So, I built a Grendel without the proper torque, and without the loctite and it sucked a$$. After I called Bill, I then tood his advice - and now it's a sub-MOA gun. I know that most of it has to do with getting the proper torque on the barrel nut, but I trust Bill's experience and extensive testing of this round. So, I took his advice so that I didn't have to redo everything.

That's great that you get 1/2 MOA on your gun, but I suspect that if you built the same rifle again then you may not get the same results. This build is just soooo different than a 5.56 build that you can throw together in 10 minutes. I wish mine worked the first time, but I built it on 5.56 specs - bad news!

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

Do this:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are considering a 6.5 upper you would be doing yourself a solid to at least talk to Specialized Dynamics (scottmilk9).
Great performance uppers from a guy that's been doing AR's quite a while. You'd be paying for performance, not a name. </div></div>

 

[Scottmilk9]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

Benji, not doubting it works by no means, I'm very glad yours is super accurate. Bill is very knowledgeable.

Every smith/armorer is different and have their own techniques, I've had guns that didn't shoot and then lap the bolt to make sure all lugs engage and it has worked wonders too.

Some nice looking guns in the photos as well!!

stay tuned for group buy info very soon on the 6.5g!!

 

[bengates]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Benji, not doubting it works by no means, I'm very glad yours is super accurate. Bill is very knowledgeable.

Every smith/armorer is different and have their own techniques, I've had guns that didn't shoot and then lap the bolt to make sure all lugs engage and it has worked wonders too.

Some nice looking guns in the photos as well!!

stay tuned for group buy info very soon on the 6.5g!! </div></div>

Oh, 6.5g group buys?!? I hope that includes ammo! I'm haveing a heck of a time finding any.

 

[widnerkj]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

I'm all for group buys for the gren, but am stuck in MA, so it gets kind of depressing for me.

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

So, I just returned from Nevada to see my folks...and shoot. I shot at 800 with the Grendel (4000 ft. elevation) and was hitting pretty consistently. Nothing I would write home about for groups or anything but hitting our target board consistently. Definately, not within the SH group rule. My 7mm was hold about 1MOA though and I was happy with that.

Next issue I need to get solved is the extraction. I ruined a bunch of cases because they wanted to turn around in the upper and the mouths split down a ways on them. By a bunch I mean ten or so that can't be fixed.

 

[244]

Re: 6.5 Grendel build

I've no personal experience, just passing on info..........

This company makes a non-standard 6.5 Grendel/.264 LBC bolt and barrel extension that can (by their claims) handle pressures up to the limit of the case.

If this proves true, the 6.5 Grendel/.264 LBC gets a LOT more interesting, at least to me!