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6.5 Grendel more or less dead?
- Thread starter Lonehill
- Start date
Doing my part to make the Grendel a little less dead... I got the itch to make a shorter, lightweight carrying around type AR in a comfortably deer capable round. I used to have a 6.8 and liked it quite a bit as a hunting carbine, figured I'd try the Grendel this time.
Picked up a 16" Wilson Combat Recon lightweight barrel, a Toolcraft BCG and a Superlative Arms adjustable gas block (this rifle will live with one of a few cans on the end) all on holiday sale. I'll piece it together over the next few months, trying to keep the weight down, and hopefully wind up with an accurate, practical, mid-range utility rifle. Might even try to thump an Antelope with it this year, if I get it done in time and it shoots alright.
Picked up a 16" Wilson Combat Recon lightweight barrel, a Toolcraft BCG and a Superlative Arms adjustable gas block (this rifle will live with one of a few cans on the end) all on holiday sale. I'll piece it together over the next few months, trying to keep the weight down, and hopefully wind up with an accurate, practical, mid-range utility rifle. Might even try to thump an Antelope with it this year, if I get it done in time and it shoots alright.
The Hornady factory loads can deliver some impressive accuracy.
Curious; anybody tried AR Stoner/ASC 7.62x39 magazines (5rd, 10rd, 25rd) with the 6.5 Grendel?
If so, how so?
Greg
If so, how so?
Greg
I only ever ran them with 7.62x39, I have 30 and 5 round mags. Some of the 30s looked like they were made by someone else. Different follower, and floor plate. I ran about 5-8k through them. Two were pretty much flawless, and the other two I had to glue a thin piece of plastic on the back to shim them forward and get the nose of the round a little higher. I never had any trouble with the 5, but also only put maybe 100rds through it. The main problem comes from the tapered cases. The ones running through the straight portion of the magazine start to nose dive.
I’ve been running the 10rd, 6.5G, AR Stoner mags in multiple rifles, for years. They are 100%.
These are SS ASC mags with an AR Stoner floorplate. I think the 5rd ones are the same thing with a block, don’t know about the 25rd ones.
DURAMAG SS 6.5 Grendel / 6mm ARC - DURAMAG
Advanced geometry in the body of the stainless-steel DURAMAG ensures 6.5 Grendel feeds reliably in your AR platform. 5, 10, 20, and 26-round available.
dura-mag.com
Got a pair of these to try tomorrow they load fine but have not shot them yet.
Yes, I'm up to 11 of the AR Stoner/ASC 10rd 6.5 Grendel mags. Some reviews mention needing to alter (bend/Dremel) feed lips.
Just curious about if/how 7.62x39 mags work with the 6.5 Grendel round.
Still curious...
Greg
Just curious about if/how 7.62x39 mags work with the 6.5 Grendel round.
Still curious...
Greg
Well my new ss duramags in 6.5g did fine . My 4x24 vortex seemed to track.
My adapter and can worked but groups went to shit with the can on?
First time I have seen that in a heavy barrel. My groups normally tighten with a can.
Only thing I can do is shoot without the can till I get to do load development.
That factory load did not like it one bit.
My adapter and can worked but groups went to shit with the can on?
First time I have seen that in a heavy barrel. My groups normally tighten with a can.
Only thing I can do is shoot without the can till I get to do load development.
That factory load did not like it one bit.
If you've seen and understand the working of barrel harmonics, you can also understand how hanging a significant mass out at the end of a barrel can affect those harmonics.
Changing harmonics messes with the "match"(ing?) part of the developed load. Sometimes the mass actually corresponds to another actual accuracy node, and all appears to be the same. Sometimes it doesn't and loads need to be redeveloped.
...Or...
Since you already have the mass on the end of the barrel, and it can be a beyatch to have to ditch it; why not alter the mass until the suppressor also becomes a functional harmonic tuner?
Whatever you use to secure the added weight needs to be proof against shock, as well as heat.
Greg
Changing harmonics messes with the "match"(ing?) part of the developed load. Sometimes the mass actually corresponds to another actual accuracy node, and all appears to be the same. Sometimes it doesn't and loads need to be redeveloped.
...Or...
Since you already have the mass on the end of the barrel, and it can be a beyatch to have to ditch it; why not alter the mass until the suppressor also becomes a functional harmonic tuner?
Whatever you use to secure the added weight needs to be proof against shock, as well as heat.
Greg
My 6.5g with flashhider/can adapter was holding 1moa, I was not in best form to get better.
Installing the can which has been veted, groups opened up to 4moa.
Left the range in disgust then calmed down with a couple of cold ones.
Came to the same conclusion as @Greg Langelius *
Just simple harmonics nothing more.
Plan on shooting sans can till the dies come in and work up a load for use can on. The factory 123g sst is an acceptable load at 1moa and slightly under if I have a good day.
Will have to go back and recenter as my blood pressure went nuts at the 4moa group. lol
Installing the can which has been veted, groups opened up to 4moa.
Left the range in disgust then calmed down with a couple of cold ones.
Came to the same conclusion as @Greg Langelius *
Just simple harmonics nothing more.
Plan on shooting sans can till the dies come in and work up a load for use can on. The factory 123g sst is an acceptable load at 1moa and slightly under if I have a good day.
Will have to go back and recenter as my blood pressure went nuts at the 4moa group. lol
I've heard about it but luckily I've never had a barrel open up with a can. Just me personally that barrel would be a no go and would be changed.
My 20 inch barrel has been shooting 1 moa and less with factory hornady 123 sst.
I think I'll keep it.
Since the recoil is soft I don't require a muzzle brake but wanted the can to reduce muzzle flip.
If I can't get a load developed that works with the can I'm only out a spare adapter and have excuse for a new host. Lol
I think I'll keep it.
Since the recoil is soft I don't require a muzzle brake but wanted the can to reduce muzzle flip.
If I can't get a load developed that works with the can I'm only out a spare adapter and have excuse for a new host. Lol
I experimented heavily with a 28" 260 Rem barrel, 95gr V-Max, and a pretty heavy weight. It could be tuned to an absolutely unbelievable degree of accuracy (sub 1/4MOA at 200yd...?).
But it also went out of tune every time the weather changed. Eventually, I began to understand why.
The big weight only required very small adjustment to correct the "detuning". This translated to it also being sensitive to very small environmental changes to detune it.
I then tried using a small weight, which required much greater adjustment, but also resisted environmental detuning a whole lot more.
Here's my suggestion. Get an automotive hose clamp of a matching diameter, slide it over the brake, and tighten it down. Then experiment with sliding it forward and back in increments, to investigate the effect on barrel harmonics.
It's simple, cheap, and educational. It may allow you to restore accuracy without needing to do load development, and if not, may make the load alteration a smaller one.
If the best clamp adjustment seems to run off the end of the brake, try adding a second one. It's all just simple physics.
I think it's worth a try...
Greg
But it also went out of tune every time the weather changed. Eventually, I began to understand why.
The big weight only required very small adjustment to correct the "detuning". This translated to it also being sensitive to very small environmental changes to detune it.
I then tried using a small weight, which required much greater adjustment, but also resisted environmental detuning a whole lot more.
Here's my suggestion. Get an automotive hose clamp of a matching diameter, slide it over the brake, and tighten it down. Then experiment with sliding it forward and back in increments, to investigate the effect on barrel harmonics.
It's simple, cheap, and educational. It may allow you to restore accuracy without needing to do load development, and if not, may make the load alteration a smaller one.
If the best clamp adjustment seems to run off the end of the brake, try adding a second one. It's all just simple physics.
I think it's worth a try...
Greg
I've decided not to shoot much, if any, of the Wolf Military Classic 100gr FMJBT steel case/bimetal projectile 6.5 Grendel that I have a 500rd case of; main concern being advice I'd received about bimetal and SS barrels. But what to do with all of it?
Well, they represent 500 primed case, already paid for, and maybe some OK powder for the 6.5 Grendel.
The powder comes from Belgium, reportedly burns pretty clean, and is especially formulated for the Wolf 6.5 Grendel loads (PB Clermont/Ramshot/Hunter recall?). The loads on ten cases I pulled bullets from were very consistent, 30.8gr for most, couple at 30.7, and one at 30.9. The steel case are identical in capacity, 33.8-34.0 (of W748), depending on whether I tap the load down to settle it, to my Starline/WSR primed brass. The max load I can find for W748 (I'm thinking it could be a close match for the cartridge) in that weight range is 30.5gr for the 95 V-Max.
I have three pounds of W748. I just ordered 500 Speer 90gr TNT's.
I'll save the pulled bimetal 6.5mm 100gr FMJBT's for Ragnarok days...
I took the ten emptied cases, and made up ten loads with 30.0gr of W748 and 90gr TNT's, at the same OAL as the AE 90gr TNT load; and I then made up ten more of exactly the same load, but with my primed Starline brass. The brass cased loads will give me a better take on pressure signs which won't be visible on the steel cases.
It's a start. We'll see...
Greg
Some of you may recall I did a fairly extensive experimental project about reloading steel cases from Tulammo 55gr FMJBT Boxer primed ammo. This is different, but not by a lot.
Well, they represent 500 primed case, already paid for, and maybe some OK powder for the 6.5 Grendel.
The powder comes from Belgium, reportedly burns pretty clean, and is especially formulated for the Wolf 6.5 Grendel loads (PB Clermont/Ramshot/Hunter recall?). The loads on ten cases I pulled bullets from were very consistent, 30.8gr for most, couple at 30.7, and one at 30.9. The steel case are identical in capacity, 33.8-34.0 (of W748), depending on whether I tap the load down to settle it, to my Starline/WSR primed brass. The max load I can find for W748 (I'm thinking it could be a close match for the cartridge) in that weight range is 30.5gr for the 95 V-Max.
I have three pounds of W748. I just ordered 500 Speer 90gr TNT's.
I'll save the pulled bimetal 6.5mm 100gr FMJBT's for Ragnarok days...
I took the ten emptied cases, and made up ten loads with 30.0gr of W748 and 90gr TNT's, at the same OAL as the AE 90gr TNT load; and I then made up ten more of exactly the same load, but with my primed Starline brass. The brass cased loads will give me a better take on pressure signs which won't be visible on the steel cases.
It's a start. We'll see...
Greg
Some of you may recall I did a fairly extensive experimental project about reloading steel cases from Tulammo 55gr FMJBT Boxer primed ammo. This is different, but not by a lot.
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After all the skull work figuring out what to do with the 500rd of Wolf Military Classic 100gr FMJBT 6.5 Grendel, I just realized it costs less to buy a replacement barrel than to buy the ammo.
Bingo, 20" SS Barrel, flash hider, and crush washer, $145 shipped; arrives Monday. Period.
Greg
Bingo, 20" SS Barrel, flash hider, and crush washer, $145 shipped; arrives Monday. Period.
Greg
I think the Valkyrie took some wind out of the Grendel's sails. Before the Valkyrie the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC was the only 1000 yard AR15 cartridge and the 6.8 was problematic so the Grendel was the go to caliber for high b.c. bullets in a round that would still fit a AR15 mag well. Also Federal is putting Valkyrie ammo on shelves for $10-$12 a box vs $18-$27 for Grendel. I load my own so the only time I buy factory ammo is if I find it cheap and need brass. I own a Valkyrie too. It's all about shared platform calibers for me. My heavy .223 bullets will work in the Valkyrie and my heavy Grendel bullets will work in my Creedmore. The Grendel and the Valkyrie are the only heavy for caliber high b.c. chamberings practical in a AR15 that stay awake past 1000 yards. Anything else is a wildcat and expensive. The Grendel has quite a bit more kinetic energy at 1000 yards but few people will hunt at those ranges with a AR15 other than maybe coyote. So the 2 calibers spend a lot of time paper punching. I like both calibers for different reasons but if I'm going to spent the day ringing the 1000 yard gong with a gas gun I tend to go with the Valkyrie simply because it gets the job done with less recoil and cheaper to load.
Good idea since the Grendel is based on the 7.62x39 case without the taper.
I' think the grendel is far from dieing. Accurate and not picky to load for starline brass available now. Great deer size game caliber!!
I agree, with the price of some of this AR stuff, why not for a quarter a round.
So have you simply pulled and reseated any of the wolf or did you recharge them all? I’d like to simply pull and seat some 100gr Barnes..... lol might wear a face shield for the first few.
As far as the stoner mags, I have 3 of the 25? Round mags and they work fine. Only thing is, I bought these to leave loaded with the wolf in the truck and the feed lips/ mag walls open up to the point where the mag drags in the mag well. I tweeked them a little and it helped but I need to check on them again. My good ammo rides in e-landers.
Thanks for the heads up on stoner 6.5g mags for storage. I had not loaded battle rattle mags for mine yet.
That option has been covered with 5.56 and 300blk in magpull mags and had not thought about it.
Been using Stoner 10 rnd mags for targets mostly loaded to 5 so I dont mess up my groups. Have been good for that so far .
That option has been covered with 5.56 and 300blk in magpull mags and had not thought about it.
Been using Stoner 10 rnd mags for targets mostly loaded to 5 so I dont mess up my groups. Have been good for that so far .
I have a couple of the 26 round mags. One ASC and another brand. I can't remember which is which offhand, but one of the two is total garbage. If you load even 3 rounds in it you pretty much can't get it in the magwell. It's just too flimsy. The other seems to be fine. I pretty much stick with 10 round mags and don't have any issues.
I managed to get myself setup with the $50 Bore Scope being suggested in another topic. My laptop has gone belly-up, so I got a $110 RCA Win 10 Convertible Tablet.
Long story short, a couple of days of Win 10 shakedown, and the setup was ready for trying out the Bore Scope.
First bore looked at was the 20" Grendel Upper. I was really impressed about how clean and smooth the lands and grooves are, along with the leade in this barrel. I still don't know who made it, and now I don't care, either; I think it looks mighty good on the inside.
In other news:
I gave the PSA home site a peek today, and the Labor Day Sale is up and running. I spied a 20" .308 Upper for $399, and a 308 lower for $159. They have been ordered along with two magazines. Tax, Shipping to two locations, etc., $632.86, on the way...
This was my counteroffer after Celia down-thumbed the CMP Special 308 Garand ($1250). It's an OK, she's not thrilled, but she's actually taking it a lot better than I had expected.
My Buddy Dave has this or something very much like it, he likes it, and it loves the IMI 7.62x51 NATO 168gr Semi-Auto Match loads. I fished out a pair of Nikon P Mounts and a Bushnell 4-12x40 scope from the optics drawer, and they await arrival.
A good day, and that day is still young; it's only about 10:30AM yet.
Greg
Long story short, a couple of days of Win 10 shakedown, and the setup was ready for trying out the Bore Scope.
First bore looked at was the 20" Grendel Upper. I was really impressed about how clean and smooth the lands and grooves are, along with the leade in this barrel. I still don't know who made it, and now I don't care, either; I think it looks mighty good on the inside.
In other news:
I gave the PSA home site a peek today, and the Labor Day Sale is up and running. I spied a 20" .308 Upper for $399, and a 308 lower for $159. They have been ordered along with two magazines. Tax, Shipping to two locations, etc., $632.86, on the way...
This was my counteroffer after Celia down-thumbed the CMP Special 308 Garand ($1250). It's an OK, she's not thrilled, but she's actually taking it a lot better than I had expected.
My Buddy Dave has this or something very much like it, he likes it, and it loves the IMI 7.62x51 NATO 168gr Semi-Auto Match loads. I fished out a pair of Nikon P Mounts and a Bushnell 4-12x40 scope from the optics drawer, and they await arrival.
A good day, and that day is still young; it's only about 10:30AM yet.
Greg
Make sure you check bolt travel before shooting. If it’s excessive it has the incorrect spring and buffer in it. Mine came like that. I need to get the correct ones from them. Otherwise I like mine and it’s accurate with cheap Walmart ammo which is why I have it. My MI large frame gets reloads.
Will do, thanks.
Greg
Edited 9/6 to add:
Gopherslayer, what barrel length and gas system lengths were at issue? My shooting Buddy has the 18 with Mid-Length, and I have the 20" with Rifle Length.
He has had issues very much like you describe, has tried different buffers and springs, and ended up going with an adjustable gas block. He tells me the Mid length has an oversized barrel gas port and is overgassed.
I told him mine was 20" with Rifle Length gas system, and that I chose the 20" specifically to get that gas system length. He got quiet with a puzzled look on his face, and said he couldn't tell me whether that would solve the issue. I wasn't asking that question, anyway.
I'm not looking for Internet forum answers, essentially because I have no idea yet whether I actually have a problem. I'll have the rifle in hand once it reaches my FFL Monday, and shooting it will answer any questions I might have.
I'll be shooting IMI 7.62x51 150gr NATO M-80 and IMI 7.62x51 168gr NATO Semi-Auto Match, which appear to me(?) to be relatively milder loads.
If you have info regarding the two systems, it could help. Thanks in Advance.
If I have the problem, I will address it differently. I'll replace everything aft of the receiver with an A2 extension and buffer system/spring, then mount an FDE Luth-AR MBA-1 stock; since that's what I want anyway, with the Luth FDE Chubby Grip, too.
I intend to eventually color code my AR's by chambering. Black for Wylde chambering, FDE for .308, and Olive Green for Grendel.
Greg
Edited 9/6 to add:
Gopherslayer, what barrel length and gas system lengths were at issue? My shooting Buddy has the 18 with Mid-Length, and I have the 20" with Rifle Length.
He has had issues very much like you describe, has tried different buffers and springs, and ended up going with an adjustable gas block. He tells me the Mid length has an oversized barrel gas port and is overgassed.
I told him mine was 20" with Rifle Length gas system, and that I chose the 20" specifically to get that gas system length. He got quiet with a puzzled look on his face, and said he couldn't tell me whether that would solve the issue. I wasn't asking that question, anyway.
I'm not looking for Internet forum answers, essentially because I have no idea yet whether I actually have a problem. I'll have the rifle in hand once it reaches my FFL Monday, and shooting it will answer any questions I might have.
I'll be shooting IMI 7.62x51 150gr NATO M-80 and IMI 7.62x51 168gr NATO Semi-Auto Match, which appear to me(?) to be relatively milder loads.
If you have info regarding the two systems, it could help. Thanks in Advance.
If I have the problem, I will address it differently. I'll replace everything aft of the receiver with an A2 extension and buffer system/spring, then mount an FDE Luth-AR MBA-1 stock; since that's what I want anyway, with the Luth FDE Chubby Grip, too.
I intend to eventually color code my AR's by chambering. Black for Wylde chambering, FDE for .308, and Olive Green for Grendel.
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Honest report. My 6.5 G hopefully will serve me well this season from a tree stand in heavy timber. inside 150m
I've seen the results of the Hornady 120 grain ELD-X on deer and it's very effective. Plus it's lethal out to 500+ yards if you are a good shot.
I think .224 Valkyrie has a lot of advantages for an ar15 especially, since there are 6.8/Valkyrie pmags, and the whole lwrc platform made to work with them is quite nice. I don't think anyone can say Grendel is dead I am fairly sure 6.5 Grendel, and 300 blackout are both more common right now then .224 Valkyrie, or 6.8. 6.5 Grendel makes the most sense in a bolt action hunting gun I think. when I have shot it, it seemed to me to be closer to a 7mm-08 in recoil then a .223. There is a lot of cheap ammo available for 6.5 Grendel. It has that going for it. At the current ammo prices it should basically should make 7.62x39 obsolete for bolt action guns.
I agree. For one thing it's much easier to find Grendel uppers than Valkyrie. I easily get 2850 fps loading 123g ELD Match bullets and H335 in 24" barrel. That's identical to the 6.5 Creedmore with 39.0 grains of Varget with same projectile! Granted that's a max load but after 5 reloads the cases still aren't showing significant overpressure signs and this is terrible Hornady brass too! The Grendel has far superior ballistics to the 7.62x39 in similar weight bullets. I like the Grendel but I love the Valkyrie as a long range round that will fit an AR15 mag. I load .223 as well as Valkyrie and before I got the .224 I was having to single feed anything above 62 grain bullets if I wanted to set them just off the lands. Then the Valkyrie came along and solved all the heavy for caliber high b.c. problems I was having in my Wilson Combat .223 Wylde barreled AR. The Valkyrie gives me a little more case volume and allows me to load 75, 80 & 90 grain VLD bullets with higher velocity. They don't have the wind resistance larger caliber heavier bullets have but it's still pretty good and extremely flat shooting. I get almost as good 1000 yard performance as far as group size goes to my 6.5x284 PRS rifle with 3 times better barrel life.
You’re getting 2850 with 123’s in a bolt gun or AR? If an AR, your brass is not telling you the full truth. That is a very hot load.
I got a low/mid 2700’s, low SD with one load in a fast 24” Satern AR barrel and though pretty excited about the numbers, realized I was a good bit beyond a usable, safe load, and backed the load down to a reasonable level. 2850? Don’t shoot next to me at the range, please. Something will eventually give.
McFather,
My handloads are based on Internet research and the Hornady 10th edition manual. My still to be tested loads all use W748.
The 90gr TNT load is 30.0gr W-748, and the 123 SST Load is 29.0gr W-748. Overall lengths are identical to AE 90gr TNT and HDY 123 SST factory loads.
Some Internet scuttlebutt suggest the SST load will work with a 20" and 24" barrel, based on OBT calculation; and that 18" and 22" barrels will like 29.6gr better. I can't confirm, but it sounds credible.
All my handloading brass is Starline, and my primers are BR-4, for now. I always finish my load development testing with a comparison between the BR-4 and CCI 400.
I have a 20" and a 24" AR (Stoner) to test them in. I have borescoped the 20" bore and it appears flawless.
Your friend may find this stuff helpful.
Greg
My handloads are based on Internet research and the Hornady 10th edition manual. My still to be tested loads all use W748.
The 90gr TNT load is 30.0gr W-748, and the 123 SST Load is 29.0gr W-748. Overall lengths are identical to AE 90gr TNT and HDY 123 SST factory loads.
Some Internet scuttlebutt suggest the SST load will work with a 20" and 24" barrel, based on OBT calculation; and that 18" and 22" barrels will like 29.6gr better. I can't confirm, but it sounds credible.
All my handloading brass is Starline, and my primers are BR-4, for now. I always finish my load development testing with a comparison between the BR-4 and CCI 400.
I have a 20" and a 24" AR (Stoner) to test them in. I have borescoped the 20" bore and it appears flawless.
Your friend may find this stuff helpful.
Greg
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Agreed! That’s why I have a Howa 1500 Mini in 6.5G
The Grendel is far from merely an “alternate” AR round. Between the bolt action push for the caliber and the eastern bloc military adoption, this round is easily the most “death proof” of the group that includes both the 6.8SPC and 224Valk.
To be clear, I’m throwing the BS flag on the claim of a 123 of any variety at 2850 in any 24” Grendel. And the brass looks great? I’ve been shooting Grendel’s for near 10 years, have 6 now in regular rotation and have never once seen anyone claim numbers like this, nor show a target or chrono results from said load claim. Not once, here or on Grendel forum. So....Warpig, please show your cards, or fold your hand.
OK, finally got the two Grendels out to play for their first rounds, and they both show a definite tendency to start out with significant dispersion, then tighten up fairly quickly. I assigned the 20" to my Grandson Patrick to get the scope ontarget and put the first 100rd through the bore. He's an untrained shooter, and his performance will not be a part of this report.
He's got to start somewhere. I started with Elena by simply putting her behind the rifle after some safety and operational instruction, then letting her develop in her own most natural way. When she wanted to do better, we trained. Now she's very good. I'm trying to see of that approach will also work with Patrick.
At this stage, both the 20" and 24" tend to be unimpressive with both the AE 90 TNT load and the HDY Custom 123 SST load. The best the AE 90 TNT could deliver in either was about 1.5MOA, and the HDY Custom 123 SST was just plain dismal in the 24".
That's in my rifles, and with barrels that are not shot in much; I think they will do better after another 100rd or so down the pipes. I also think those bullets will do immensely better as handloads with diligent load development to conform the load harmonics better to these particular barrels.
Handloads with 90 TNT do better, I have yet to test 123 SST handloads, and the HDY 95 VMax is turning out to be the crowd pleaser. All handloads use W748, and the good 95gr VMax load is at 30.0gr, and may tighten up more (in the 24" barrel, only one with any load testing yet) with a tweak. Too few groups to make claims yet, but there will be more, but five rounds at 100yd (one group only) got covered completely with my thumb..
There is a major difference between the 20" AR Stoner Factory Upper and the 24" home assembled Upper. They both use Midway/AR Stoner components, but the 24" shoots a lot better. I experimented by lapping the 24" Upper Receiver face and bedding the extension with Red Loc-Tite. Too early for certainty, but it looks like the two extra tweaks may have had some actual benefit.
I will be putting this to a more stringent test by doing load development with the 20" in original format, and then doing the Lapping and Bedding to see if it brings any improvement.
Needless to say, there will be bore scoping, and chronographing too.
The underlying premise to this series of 6.5 Grendel Upper build and factory Upper test comparisons is to find out if some very basic and inexpensive rifle components can be reliably developed without huge expenditure into good shooters by a reasonably average hobbyist. At this early stage, it's starting to look like it may be possible. FWIW, the entire test day was completed with no (zero) failures of any kind.
The next upgrades to both rifles will be Bolt Release Assist Levers (already in house), PSA Nickel Boron Two Stage Triggers (already in house), and Limbsaver snap on butt pads for the M4 stocks (one in house, three to go). I got 3 of the 4 triggers on sale for $59 and change. The mods are for a set of three PSA PA-15 M4 Classic Lowers, and a PA-10 Lower.
Eventually, the 24" will be converted to an A2 configuration with a Luth-AR MBA-1 Stock Assembly, and the Luth-AR Chubby Grip (both in house).
Yesterday was my first day back at the range after 10 months of Illness, hospitalizations, 160 mile appointments, specialists, and rehabs. Really good to have all that stuff in the rear view... Wonderful 70-75 degree, under 5mph range day. Some days are just golden.
Greg
He's got to start somewhere. I started with Elena by simply putting her behind the rifle after some safety and operational instruction, then letting her develop in her own most natural way. When she wanted to do better, we trained. Now she's very good. I'm trying to see of that approach will also work with Patrick.
At this stage, both the 20" and 24" tend to be unimpressive with both the AE 90 TNT load and the HDY Custom 123 SST load. The best the AE 90 TNT could deliver in either was about 1.5MOA, and the HDY Custom 123 SST was just plain dismal in the 24".
That's in my rifles, and with barrels that are not shot in much; I think they will do better after another 100rd or so down the pipes. I also think those bullets will do immensely better as handloads with diligent load development to conform the load harmonics better to these particular barrels.
Handloads with 90 TNT do better, I have yet to test 123 SST handloads, and the HDY 95 VMax is turning out to be the crowd pleaser. All handloads use W748, and the good 95gr VMax load is at 30.0gr, and may tighten up more (in the 24" barrel, only one with any load testing yet) with a tweak. Too few groups to make claims yet, but there will be more, but five rounds at 100yd (one group only) got covered completely with my thumb..
There is a major difference between the 20" AR Stoner Factory Upper and the 24" home assembled Upper. They both use Midway/AR Stoner components, but the 24" shoots a lot better. I experimented by lapping the 24" Upper Receiver face and bedding the extension with Red Loc-Tite. Too early for certainty, but it looks like the two extra tweaks may have had some actual benefit.
I will be putting this to a more stringent test by doing load development with the 20" in original format, and then doing the Lapping and Bedding to see if it brings any improvement.
Needless to say, there will be bore scoping, and chronographing too.
The underlying premise to this series of 6.5 Grendel Upper build and factory Upper test comparisons is to find out if some very basic and inexpensive rifle components can be reliably developed without huge expenditure into good shooters by a reasonably average hobbyist. At this early stage, it's starting to look like it may be possible. FWIW, the entire test day was completed with no (zero) failures of any kind.
The next upgrades to both rifles will be Bolt Release Assist Levers (already in house), PSA Nickel Boron Two Stage Triggers (already in house), and Limbsaver snap on butt pads for the M4 stocks (one in house, three to go). I got 3 of the 4 triggers on sale for $59 and change. The mods are for a set of three PSA PA-15 M4 Classic Lowers, and a PA-10 Lower.
Eventually, the 24" will be converted to an A2 configuration with a Luth-AR MBA-1 Stock Assembly, and the Luth-AR Chubby Grip (both in house).
Yesterday was my first day back at the range after 10 months of Illness, hospitalizations, 160 mile appointments, specialists, and rehabs. Really good to have all that stuff in the rear view... Wonderful 70-75 degree, under 5mph range day. Some days are just golden.
Greg
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Greg
Glad to hear you’re back in the saddle. Betting more rounds down range will improve both barrels. If you have either 8208 or AR Comp on your shelf, 28gr of 8208 or 27ish of AR Comp should breathe life into the 123’s. Sierra 120-123’s, Nosler 120BT or 123CC’s or Lapua 120-123 Scenars have all performed well in my Grendel’s. 18/20/24” barrels inclusive.
Glad to hear you’re back in the saddle. Betting more rounds down range will improve both barrels. If you have either 8208 or AR Comp on your shelf, 28gr of 8208 or 27ish of AR Comp should breathe life into the 123’s. Sierra 120-123’s, Nosler 120BT or 123CC’s or Lapua 120-123 Scenars have all performed well in my Grendel’s. 18/20/24” barrels inclusive.
Ive had great luck with 123 nosler cc and cfs223. Meters excellent if.youre using a progressive press as well
I've had a 20" grendel for 3 years and have taken several deer with it. I wanted something more compact after receiving my supressor, so I built a 12.7" pistol. It is my go to hunting rig, do it all. I used 123gr sst last year on a doe and it did pretty good. I decided to try out a bonded projectile for this season, so I handloaded a 120gr speer gold dot and its moving right at 2300fps. Next weekend I will hopefully find out how it performs. I love the grendel and have turned many friends and family onto it.
I've seen a bunch of decent shooting ARs built on cheaper parts, and have done a number that way myself; not only is it possible but it's pretty common IMO. In my experience it's mostly in the barrel though; a good barrel built with cheap parts will outshoot a mediocre barrel built around high end parts. The assembly matters too though and tricks like barrel/reciever bedding do help.
The 123 ELD and the 120 SMK both shoot really well over 8208 XBR. Mine do shoot the 123 ELD best at 2.300" (ASC mags); close to the lands isn't always best for accuracy but in this barrel and bullet it definitely is, groups just kept opening up as I moved back to 2.200" in steps.
The 123 ELD and the 120 SMK both shoot really well over 8208 XBR. Mine do shoot the 123 ELD best at 2.300" (ASC mags); close to the lands isn't always best for accuracy but in this barrel and bullet it definitely is, groups just kept opening up as I moved back to 2.200" in steps.
Did the trigger/bolt release/recoil pad upgrades to the two Grendels yesterday. The first trigger took a bit of time since I had no specific instructions, but the second replacement only took a bit under five minutes. That PSA Nickel Boron Two Stage Trigger is really nice.
