I am looking to build/buy and new rifle/upper in a semi auto platform to do some long range shooting. I have heard good things about the 6.5 grendel so I would like your opinions on which one I should get. At the farthest I will be ringing steel at 850. Please describe recoil differences as well. Thanks in advance
6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
- Thread starter poke5353
- Start date
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
What all will you be using the rifle for, just ringing steel or will you use it to hunt at all, bench target, etc?
Their are better choices than the .308 in the large framed AR, like 6.5 Creed or any 7mm cartrage that fits.
But we also need to know if you reload, if not that limits you quite a bit.
In the small framed AR I chose the 6.5 Grendel over others because of the lighter weight of the weapon so I can use it to hunt if I like and also the increased killing power of the 6.5 over a 6mm.
Their are so so many different chamberings you can get now in an AR now, if you look in the right places.
First you need to decide on all what you intend to use it for.
That should help you decide on a large or small frame, then pick the caliber and a builder and go from their.
What all will you be using the rifle for, just ringing steel or will you use it to hunt at all, bench target, etc?
Their are better choices than the .308 in the large framed AR, like 6.5 Creed or any 7mm cartrage that fits.
But we also need to know if you reload, if not that limits you quite a bit.
In the small framed AR I chose the 6.5 Grendel over others because of the lighter weight of the weapon so I can use it to hunt if I like and also the increased killing power of the 6.5 over a 6mm.
Their are so so many different chamberings you can get now in an AR now, if you look in the right places.
First you need to decide on all what you intend to use it for.
That should help you decide on a large or small frame, then pick the caliber and a builder and go from their.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
I do reload. May or may not hunt with it but probably not. Just want to punch paper and ring steel. I would only be interested in 308 bc I have a lot of 30 cal components at hand to start loading.
I do reload. May or may not hunt with it but probably not. Just want to punch paper and ring steel. I would only be interested in 308 bc I have a lot of 30 cal components at hand to start loading.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
I have owned AR-15's in .223 and 6.5 Grendel, and AR-10's/DPMS is .308 and .260 Remington. If I were to choose 1 rifle and caliber it would be the 6.5 Grendel/.264 Les Baer (or whatever). Overall the system is much lighter and more portable.
I have owned AR-15's in .223 and 6.5 Grendel, and AR-10's/DPMS is .308 and .260 Remington. If I were to choose 1 rifle and caliber it would be the 6.5 Grendel/.264 Les Baer (or whatever). Overall the system is much lighter and more portable.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
Great ballistics as well. Maybe I need to sell my 30 cal stuff to buy 6.5 stuff. Is there a big difference in recoil between the two? This purchase might also replace my 308 bolt gun.
Great ballistics as well. Maybe I need to sell my 30 cal stuff to buy 6.5 stuff. Is there a big difference in recoil between the two? This purchase might also replace my 308 bolt gun.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
There is a significant difference in recoil.. think more .223 vs .308. But with a good brake and recoil pad, the .308 can be taken down to almost .223 recoil (well at least cut in half). It will cost about the same to get into a Grendel upper as a full DPMS 308 rifle. Brass cost is more on the Grendel. I've thought about these two platforms along with the other LR cartridges and fall into the category of keep it simple. My LR semi will be a .308
There is a significant difference in recoil.. think more .223 vs .308. But with a good brake and recoil pad, the .308 can be taken down to almost .223 recoil (well at least cut in half). It will cost about the same to get into a Grendel upper as a full DPMS 308 rifle. Brass cost is more on the Grendel. I've thought about these two platforms along with the other LR cartridges and fall into the category of keep it simple. My LR semi will be a .308
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
I'd go with the 6.5 grendel and I would wait til 4th of July to order one.........................................
I'd go with the 6.5 grendel and I would wait til 4th of July to order one.........................................
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd go with the 6.5 grendel and I would wait til 4th of July to order one......................................... </div></div>
why the 4th?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd go with the 6.5 grendel and I would wait til 4th of July to order one......................................... </div></div>
why the 4th?
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
Im sure after this fathers day special i got going now, the 4th of july would be a great time to put another special up.
Im sure after this fathers day special i got going now, the 4th of july would be a great time to put another special up.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
I got rid of my Grendel for an AR10-T. It shoots just as good for half the cost. I have a brake on the 10T, so recoil is a non issue. The 10 is heavier, but it doesnt sound like you are going to be shooting it off hand, so that shouldn't be an issue.
I got rid of my Grendel for an AR10-T. It shoots just as good for half the cost. I have a brake on the 10T, so recoil is a non issue. The 10 is heavier, but it doesnt sound like you are going to be shooting it off hand, so that shouldn't be an issue.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
As for recoil on the 308, I shot my POF sunday for about 70 rounds and it really has hardly any at all..... I would not think twice about letting a young kid or woman shoot it and get bit.
As for recoil on the 308, I shot my POF sunday for about 70 rounds and it really has hardly any at all..... I would not think twice about letting a young kid or woman shoot it and get bit.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got rid of my Grendel for an AR10-T. It shoots just as good for half the cost. I have a brake on the 10T, so recoil is a non issue. The 10 is heavier, but it doesnt sound like you are going to be shooting it off hand, so that shouldn't be an issue. </div></div>
Half the cost? maybe initially in brass, but to reload you use almost half the powder in the 6.5 than in a .308, so over time its half the cost to shoot the grendel. Bullets and primers are about same cost, even though the grendel uses small rifle primers.
Factory ammo for example: MidwayUSA has federal gold medal 168gr for $23.99/box of 20 and the Grendel 123 hornday box/20 is $22.49 so its neglible on cost for factory ammo.
To each his own on calibers, its definitely a personal opinion and not trying to knock anyone for choosing a .308, but like I said earlier the Grendel is my choice.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Super Bee 950</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got rid of my Grendel for an AR10-T. It shoots just as good for half the cost. I have a brake on the 10T, so recoil is a non issue. The 10 is heavier, but it doesnt sound like you are going to be shooting it off hand, so that shouldn't be an issue. </div></div>
Half the cost? maybe initially in brass, but to reload you use almost half the powder in the 6.5 than in a .308, so over time its half the cost to shoot the grendel. Bullets and primers are about same cost, even though the grendel uses small rifle primers.
Factory ammo for example: MidwayUSA has federal gold medal 168gr for $23.99/box of 20 and the Grendel 123 hornday box/20 is $22.49 so its neglible on cost for factory ammo.
To each his own on calibers, its definitely a personal opinion and not trying to knock anyone for choosing a .308, but like I said earlier the Grendel is my choice.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
I have both a 6.5 grendel and 308 AR10 plus a 6mmAR and 6.5 creedmoor, love them all especially the 6mm AR and 308.
I have both a 6.5 grendel and 308 AR10 plus a 6mmAR and 6.5 creedmoor, love them all especially the 6mm AR and 308.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.... but like I said earlier the Grendel is my choice.</div></div>
Now thats a smart man....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.... but like I said earlier the Grendel is my choice.</div></div>
Now thats a smart man....
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
Either go 308 or if you dont like recoil get an AR10 set up to fire something in 6.5 with 120gr bullets.
Either go 308 or if you dont like recoil get an AR10 set up to fire something in 6.5 with 120gr bullets.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical_Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Either go 308 or if you dont like recoil get an AR10 set up to fire something in
6.5 with 120gr bullets. </div></div>
I have both. Cost is close once you have your brass.
Biggest difference is the ar-10 has more bolt weight or longer stroke. If your used to it you don't notice it. My kids turned me onto it.. both are great shooters.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical_Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Either go 308 or if you dont like recoil get an AR10 set up to fire something in
6.5 with 120gr bullets. </div></div>
I have both. Cost is close once you have your brass.
Biggest difference is the ar-10 has more bolt weight or longer stroke. If your used to it you don't notice it. My kids turned me onto it.. both are great shooters.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
I'm about to start a new AR build as well and am going with the 308. The biggest reasons for me are the availability of quality factory ammo in a pinch, as well as the ability to load it for numerous different purposes. With the performance of the new Hornady Superformance Match ammo, the 308 has a whole new lease on life. Recoil shouldn't be an issue with any AR-type platform unless you're doing something crazy like making a 338LM or 50 BMG. The gas system takes care of a lot of it and frankly the 308 doesn't recoil that much to begin with.
I'm about to start a new AR build as well and am going with the 308. The biggest reasons for me are the availability of quality factory ammo in a pinch, as well as the ability to load it for numerous different purposes. With the performance of the new Hornady Superformance Match ammo, the 308 has a whole new lease on life. Recoil shouldn't be an issue with any AR-type platform unless you're doing something crazy like making a 338LM or 50 BMG. The gas system takes care of a lot of it and frankly the 308 doesn't recoil that much to begin with.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
As Lebowski states, narrow down what you want to do with, I have a few 308 bolts, but hands down my little 18 upper in 264lbc is my favorite, topped with the NF 2.5-10x24, its a super versatile fun rifle, either ringing steel at 500+ or hunting yotes or p-dogs. Also I personally found it easy to load using a variety of bullet weights. Another consideration is the plethora of parts for the small caliber AR, not to say there's not a lot of Parts for its bigger brother now, in my case it was as simple as changing the barrel, bolt a few new mags and I had a super new shooting platform that exceeded its expectations.
As Lebowski states, narrow down what you want to do with, I have a few 308 bolts, but hands down my little 18 upper in 264lbc is my favorite, topped with the NF 2.5-10x24, its a super versatile fun rifle, either ringing steel at 500+ or hunting yotes or p-dogs. Also I personally found it easy to load using a variety of bullet weights. Another consideration is the plethora of parts for the small caliber AR, not to say there's not a lot of Parts for its bigger brother now, in my case it was as simple as changing the barrel, bolt a few new mags and I had a super new shooting platform that exceeded its expectations.
G
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Guest
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
grendel is supper sonic past 1200 yrds bullets in the 6.5 have a high bc and light recoil ...308 falls subsonic at 800 yrds recoil is not that bad but gets ur attention depends how far you wanna shoot i got rid of my 308 for a 6.5 grendel just because of the ballistics are better but i still love both rounds
grendel is supper sonic past 1200 yrds bullets in the 6.5 have a high bc and light recoil ...308 falls subsonic at 800 yrds recoil is not that bad but gets ur attention depends how far you wanna shoot i got rid of my 308 for a 6.5 grendel just because of the ballistics are better but i still love both rounds
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: john.boy1985</div><div class="ubbcode-body">grendel is supper sonic past 1200 yrds bullets in the 6.5 have a high bc and light recoil ...308 falls subsonic at 800 yrds recoil is not that bad but gets ur attention depends how far you wanna shoot i got rid of my 308 for a 6.5 grendel just because of the ballistics are better but i still love both rounds </div></div>this depends on the bullets you're shooting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: john.boy1985</div><div class="ubbcode-body">grendel is supper sonic past 1200 yrds bullets in the 6.5 have a high bc and light recoil ...308 falls subsonic at 800 yrds recoil is not that bad but gets ur attention depends how far you wanna shoot i got rid of my 308 for a 6.5 grendel just because of the ballistics are better but i still love both rounds </div></div>this depends on the bullets you're shooting
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+ 1 for the Grendel.</div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+ 1 for the Grendel.</div></div>
+1
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
Got rid of my les Baer 6.5 Grendel due to he had a falling out with Alexander arms and could not get the ammo that black hill made for them any more nothen else would shoot as good. The creedmores shoot as good and better guns and ammo are cheaper. But if I did it over again I would get a gap ar or les baer 308 for the fact of not buying differnt ammo I don't mind it extra weight it takes the recoil out
Got rid of my les Baer 6.5 Grendel due to he had a falling out with Alexander arms and could not get the ammo that black hill made for them any more nothen else would shoot as good. The creedmores shoot as good and better guns and ammo are cheaper. But if I did it over again I would get a gap ar or les baer 308 for the fact of not buying differnt ammo I don't mind it extra weight it takes the recoil out
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im sure after this fathers day special i got going now, the 4th of july would be a great time to put another special up. </div></div>
not sure if i just missed the thread, but was there a 4th special?
im really wanting to get a grendel
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottmilk9</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im sure after this fathers day special i got going now, the 4th of july would be a great time to put another special up. </div></div>
not sure if i just missed the thread, but was there a 4th special?
im really wanting to get a grendel
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
From your choices, and because your reload, I would pick the 6.5 Grendel. Better BC, flatter shooting, less recoil.
From your choices, and because your reload, I would pick the 6.5 Grendel. Better BC, flatter shooting, less recoil.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
Have you considered a 6.8spc? Ballistics are pretty much the same, wide range of bullet weight, more manufacturers of caliber specific accessories. I considered the 6.5 and 308 also but am building a 6.8 to replace my 308 bolt gun.
bshaw
Here's the link to the 6.8 forum
http://68forums.com/forums/forum.php
Have you considered a 6.8spc? Ballistics are pretty much the same, wide range of bullet weight, more manufacturers of caliber specific accessories. I considered the 6.5 and 308 also but am building a 6.8 to replace my 308 bolt gun.
bshaw
Here's the link to the 6.8 forum
http://68forums.com/forums/forum.php
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bshaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you considered a 6.8spc? Ballistics are pretty much the same, wide range of bullet weight, more manufacturers of caliber specific accessories. I considered the 6.5 and 308 also but am building a 6.8 to replace my 308 bolt gun.
bshaw
Here's the link to the 6.8 forum
http://68forums.com/forums/forum.php </div></div>
within 300-400 yards the 6.8 and 6.5 the ballistics are very similar. but once you get passed 400 they 6.5 will be much better
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bshaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you considered a 6.8spc? Ballistics are pretty much the same, wide range of bullet weight, more manufacturers of caliber specific accessories. I considered the 6.5 and 308 also but am building a 6.8 to replace my 308 bolt gun.
bshaw
Here's the link to the 6.8 forum
http://68forums.com/forums/forum.php </div></div>
within 300-400 yards the 6.8 and 6.5 the ballistics are very similar. but once you get passed 400 they 6.5 will be much better
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: john.boy1985</div><div class="ubbcode-body">grendel is supper sonic past 1200 yrds bullets in the 6.5 have a high bc and light recoil ...<span style="color: #CC0000">308 falls subsonic at 800 yrds </span>recoil is not that bad but gets ur attention depends how far you wanna shoot i got rid of my 308 for a 6.5 grendel just because of the ballistics are better but i still love both rounds </div></div>
What utter fucking bullshit.
If you are a 6.5 grendel fanboy, fine. It is a nifty little cartridge. But do not spread blatantly false information to back up your choice.
OP, if you are ringing steeel out to 800 or so yards, both cartridges will work just fine. You are comparing apples to oranges here. You are comparing a cartridge designed to fit in the shorter AR15 to one that fits in an AR10.
You can buy ammunition suitable for your intentions for 15 bucks a box with the .308.
American Eagle 168 OTM, USA Ammo with numerous loads.
The grendel does have some ammo out there, but not even close to what the .308 has. This is due largely to the propietary nature of the 6.5. If Alexander arms hadn't been such a dick about it, the 6.5 would be far more popular than it is.
If you are considering the grendel, then you are obviously reloading, since you are reloading, there is no reason not to go with a better cartridge like the 6.5 creedmore, .260 or 7mm-08.
Creedmore match ammo is available for a very reasonable price and the recipe is right on the box.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: john.boy1985</div><div class="ubbcode-body">grendel is supper sonic past 1200 yrds bullets in the 6.5 have a high bc and light recoil ...<span style="color: #CC0000">308 falls subsonic at 800 yrds </span>recoil is not that bad but gets ur attention depends how far you wanna shoot i got rid of my 308 for a 6.5 grendel just because of the ballistics are better but i still love both rounds </div></div>
What utter fucking bullshit.
If you are a 6.5 grendel fanboy, fine. It is a nifty little cartridge. But do not spread blatantly false information to back up your choice.
OP, if you are ringing steeel out to 800 or so yards, both cartridges will work just fine. You are comparing apples to oranges here. You are comparing a cartridge designed to fit in the shorter AR15 to one that fits in an AR10.
You can buy ammunition suitable for your intentions for 15 bucks a box with the .308.
American Eagle 168 OTM, USA Ammo with numerous loads.
The grendel does have some ammo out there, but not even close to what the .308 has. This is due largely to the propietary nature of the 6.5. If Alexander arms hadn't been such a dick about it, the 6.5 would be far more popular than it is.
If you are considering the grendel, then you are obviously reloading, since you are reloading, there is no reason not to go with a better cartridge like the 6.5 creedmore, .260 or 7mm-08.
Creedmore match ammo is available for a very reasonable price and the recipe is right on the box.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
I ended up buying a POF 308. I have found a way to load for about .35c per round using 175gr. I have shot it and the recoil is not even close to an issue. Thanks for all the input.
I ended up buying a POF 308. I have found a way to load for about .35c per round using 175gr. I have shot it and the recoil is not even close to an issue. Thanks for all the input.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bshaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you considered a 6.8spc? Ballistics are pretty much the same, wide range of bullet weight, more manufacturers of caliber specific accessories. I considered the 6.5 and 308 also but am building a 6.8 to replace my 308 bolt gun.
bshaw
Here's the link to the 6.8 forum
http://68forums.com/forums/forum.php </div></div>
I wouldn't consider the 6.8 to be a better choice than the 308 or 6.5 for ringing steel at 850 yards (as specified by the OP).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bshaw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you considered a 6.8spc? Ballistics are pretty much the same, wide range of bullet weight, more manufacturers of caliber specific accessories. I considered the 6.5 and 308 also but am building a 6.8 to replace my 308 bolt gun.
bshaw
Here's the link to the 6.8 forum
http://68forums.com/forums/forum.php </div></div>
I wouldn't consider the 6.8 to be a better choice than the 308 or 6.5 for ringing steel at 850 yards (as specified by the OP).
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poke53</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ended up buying a POF 308. I have found a way to load for about .35c per round using 175gr. I have shot it and the recoil is not even close to an issue. Thanks for all the input. </div></div>
Good choice....Just like I said, my POF has no issue at all with recoil, and now you agree!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poke53</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ended up buying a POF 308. I have found a way to load for about .35c per round using 175gr. I have shot it and the recoil is not even close to an issue. Thanks for all the input. </div></div>
Good choice....Just like I said, my POF has no issue at all with recoil, and now you agree!
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poke53</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ended up buying a POF 308. I have found a way to load for about .35c per round using 175gr. I have shot it and the recoil is not even close to an issue. Thanks for all the input.</div></div>
smart choice in caliber.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poke53</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ended up buying a POF 308. I have found a way to load for about .35c per round using 175gr. I have shot it and the recoil is not even close to an issue. Thanks for all the input.</div></div>
smart choice in caliber.....
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
I would advise to let whichever platform you shoot better guide your decision, because the two are almost a wash ballistically with the right load.
Shooting the big AR's is not the same as the little ones (personally I can drive a big one, and am only mediocre with a small one for precision type stuff, adn I know others that are the opposite).
If 6.5G is the choice, I believe Scottmilk9's (Specialized Dynamics) next sale is on Grendel uppers.....
I would advise to let whichever platform you shoot better guide your decision, because the two are almost a wash ballistically with the right load.
Shooting the big AR's is not the same as the little ones (personally I can drive a big one, and am only mediocre with a small one for precision type stuff, adn I know others that are the opposite).
If 6.5G is the choice, I believe Scottmilk9's (Specialized Dynamics) next sale is on Grendel uppers.....
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
Good choice on the .308. Sometimes we want to jump on the "best new thing" wagon, but after years of shooting and reloading all kinds of cartridges I've gone back to the main stays of .223 and .308. More of a K.I.S.S philosophy. I find I shoot more, spend less and can really refine my skills with just two cartridges than with 4-5. I figure between these two calibers and the .22cal trainers, I should be able to do whatever I need.
Cheers and good shooting.. I'm sure it will be a blast.
Good choice on the .308. Sometimes we want to jump on the "best new thing" wagon, but after years of shooting and reloading all kinds of cartridges I've gone back to the main stays of .223 and .308. More of a K.I.S.S philosophy. I find I shoot more, spend less and can really refine my skills with just two cartridges than with 4-5. I figure between these two calibers and the .22cal trainers, I should be able to do whatever I need.
Cheers and good shooting.. I'm sure it will be a blast.
Re: 6.5 grendel or 308 Semi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poke53</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ended up buying a POF 308. I have found a way to load for about .35c per round using 175gr. I have shot it and the recoil is not even close to an issue. Thanks for all the input. </div></div>
what recipe/ components are you using? keep us informed of accuracy/ performance you get
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poke53</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I ended up buying a POF 308. I have found a way to load for about .35c per round using 175gr. I have shot it and the recoil is not even close to an issue. Thanks for all the input. </div></div>
what recipe/ components are you using? keep us informed of accuracy/ performance you get
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