6.5 Grendel

[LRRPF52]

129gr ABLR
17.6” Barrel
Red line is where I identified the cut-off doing pressure ladders with 129gr ABLR and CFE223 trying out longer COLs.

If you’re loading to 2.260” or less, I wouldn’t go over 30.4gr working up in .3gr increments (1% case capacity).
These velocities were all 15ft from the muzzle over a Chrony Beta. You can see where velocities departed the trend.

Look how the 2.271” COL stayed very predictable as charge weight increased, whereas 2.284” was all over the place.

This is from an actual SAAMI chamber with the compound throat.

I had already done pressure ladder work before with 2.260” COL starting at 29.0gr.

Lapua Brass
Rem 7 1/2 BR SRPs

 

[LRRPF52]

If I was headed to the load bench right now to mass-produce a load, it would be 31.2gr CFE223 under 123gr A-MAX, but I’m running out of A-MAXs so I would substitute ELD-M after working it up again.

I know that CFE223 isn’t the best for temp stability, but it has shot well for me. I like it loaded to 2.272”, which runs in CProducts mags fine, but not in Elanders. Elanders came out later and have a very strict maximum COL with a little clearance over 2.260” in all the ones I have, but they have a more smooth surface coating and run well with ammo at those COLs.

123gr A-MAX
31.2gr CFE-223
Lapua brass
Rem 7 1/2 Small Rifle Primer
2.272” COL

Here is a rapid 9rd group at 2.267” COL:

 

[glock63]

Have you loaded the 129 ablr with 8208? I dont stock cfe223.

 

[Huckleberry75]

H335 is pretty common in 6.5 Grendel. Hodgdon’s has data for it for every bullet weight from 85gr up to 123gr. In their data, it was almost always the highest velocity-producing powder with one exception where it was within 4fps (120gr Barnes TSX).

For 123gr cup and core, don’t exceed 28.7gr at a mid-range COL and you’ll likely be under 50,000psi.
Start load under a 123gr cup and core is 26.0gr according to Hodgdon’s.

When Bill Alexander did his testing with it, he stopped at the 110gr Barnes Banded Solid (discontinued/ATF ruled AP) when working with H335.

Sounds like h335 would be good under a 105 Cavity Back

 

[LRRPF52]

Have you loaded the 129 ablr with 8208? I dont stock cfe223.

I haven’t and won’t load 8208XBR under 129gr. 8208XBR is a great powder in Grendel for up to the 107gr SMK for case fill, optimum speeds, and velocity.

Once you get into the 108gr Scenar (123gr Scenar jacket profile with less lead core mass) and above, you really have to be careful with what you’re doing depending on your chamber.

There are plenty of hand-loaders who have experienced great results with 8208XBR under 123gr cup/core bullets, but it can spike on you as you approach book-listed max loads, especially with short chambers.

It produces excellent low SDs and tight groups though, but I personally have my own rule not to load it under 129gr. Even though I could, I don’t load it under 123gr, though I’m not totally opposed to it. I know some manufacturers who have used it under 123gr and they are some of the most accurate factory loads I’ve ever shot, even compared to bolt guns.

It’s my go-to powder under the 107gr SMK and 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip if looking for the tightest groups with the least amount of temp sensitivity.

For 129/130gr cup and core bullets, I’m still using ball powders with ideal case fill/density and higher velocities, mainly CFE223 and LEVERevolution.

Other ball powders to look at if you don’t have CFE223 or LEVERevolution are BL-C(2), AA2250, and W748.

We’ve been wishing for a tiny stick powder with lower burn rate that would be ideal for 123gr and 129gr in 6.5 Grendel for many years, but I’m not sure we’ve found it yet. AR Comp, 8208XBR, and N530 are just a bit fast for those, but are the closest thing so far.

What it effectively means is that even with 20-24" barrels, you’ll be in the 2400-2500fps region with AR Comp, 8208XBR, and N530 under a 123gr.

With CFE223 and LEVERevolution, I can hit 2450-2500fps with a 123gr from 16-18” barrels, and still not get into pressures over 50,000psi at least from the chambers we’ve tested.

From a pressure test breech that was calibrated over a 6 month period as part of the internal validation process, using a custom-cut SAAMI reamer from Manson to represent a mid-life cut chamber in a production lot (not too generous, not too tight), we saw 2410fps average from an 18” barrel shooting the 129gr ABLR on top of 30.4gr of CFE223, using Hornady brass, CCI 450 SRP, loaded to 2.260”. That averaged 50,000psi on the meter with better quality gages placed directly over the center of the propellent mass in the chamber to give us actual peak pressure readings. This work was all done by a retired aerospace engineer who worked at one of the US’s premier National Labs on weapons projects. He used SAAMI MAP standards and frequent communication with Bill Alexander to set the conditions for establishing left and right limits on MAP.

 

[LRRPF52]

Sounds like h335 would be good under a 105 Cavity Back

H335 should produce some of the fastest velocities under anything 85gr-107gr cup and core, and would be a great candidate to work with under a 105gr Solid. It also meters very well.

 

[glock63]

I haven’t and won’t load 8208XBR under 129gr. 8208XBR is a great powder in Grendel for up to the 107gr SMK for case fill, optimum speeds, and velocity.

Once you get into the 108gr Scenar (123gr Scenar jacket profile with less lead core mass) and above, you really have to be careful with what you’re doing depending on your chamber.

There are plenty of hand-loaders who have experienced great results with 8208XBR under 123gr cup/core bullets, but it can spike on you as you approach book-listed max loads, especially with short chambers.

It produces excellent low SDs and tight groups though, but I personally have my own rule not to load it under 129gr. Even though I could, I don’t load it under 123gr, though I’m not totally opposed to it. I know some manufacturers who have used it under 123gr and they are some of the most accurate factory loads I’ve ever shot, even compared to bolt guns.

It’s my go-to powder under the 107gr SMK and 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip if looking for the tightest groups with the least amount of temp sensitivity.

For 129/130gr cup and core bullets, I’m still using ball powders with ideal case fill/density and higher velocities, mainly CFE223 and LEVERevolution.

Other ball powders to look at if you don’t have CFE223 or LEVERevolution are BL-C(2), AA2250, and W748.

We’ve been wishing for a tiny stick powder with lower burn rate that would be ideal for 123gr and 129gr in 6.5 Grendel for many years, but I’m not sure we’ve found it yet. AR Comp, 8208XBR, and N530 are just a bit fast for those, but are the closest thing so far.

What it effectively means is that even with 20-24" barrels, you’ll be in the 2400-2500fps region with AR Comp, 8208XBR, and N530 under a 123gr.

With CFE223 and LEVERevolution, I can hit 2450-2500fps with a 123gr from 16-18” barrels, and still not get into pressures over 50,000psi at least from the chambers we’ve tested.

From a pressure test breech that was calibrated over a 6 month period as part of the internal validation process, using a custom-cut SAAMI reamer from Manson to represent a mid-life cut chamber in a production lot (not too generous, not too tight), we saw 2410fps average from an 18” barrel shooting the 129gr ABLR on top of 30.4gr of CFE223, using Hornady brass, CCI 450 SRP, loaded to 2.260”. That averaged 50,000psi on the meter with better quality gages placed directly over the center of the propellent mass in the chamber to give us actual peak pressure readings. This work was all done by a retired aerospace engineer who worked at one of the US’s premier National Labs on weapons projects. He used SAAMI MAP standards and frequent communication with Bill Alexander to set the conditions for establishing left and right limits on MAP.

Thanks man. I was wondering if 8208 might be a bit fast for that bullet. I primarily shoot the 100 grain ELDM and 95 grain vmax, and love 8208 with those bullets. I have 748. Ill give that a whirl if I can't scrounge up some CFE.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Beat me to that.
I came up with 40 loads listed.

One very interesting I never noticed before.

123g pills with H335.
Has anyone tried any H335?

I ended up with 8lb jug and not found a good 223 load yet. I think backing way off from max and trying again.

H-335 in the 223?
Yep.
26.0 under a 50gr V-Max, Ballistic Tip or even the Speer TNT.

If it doesn't shoot, then you might have a barrel/scope problem.

I've also used 335 in the Grendel and get excellent velocity.

 

[LRRPF52]

Another powder that has come out recently is PowerPro Varmint. If you can find that, I would try that under a 129gr ABLR as well.

Sierra has data for that powder under their 130gr bullets maxing out at 28.5gr.

Start with 10” below max listed loads and work up in .3gr increments over chrono/MS/LabRadar to get an idea of the trend.

The good thing about 129gr ABLR is that it really doesn’t need a lot of speed since the expansion threshold is so low (1300fps) and BC is so high (.553 G1 Litz).

 

[Snuby642]

H-335 in the 223?
Yep.
26.0 under a 50gr V-Max, Ballistic Tip or even the Speer TNT.

If it doesn't shoot, then you might have a barrel/scope problem.

I've also used 335 in the Grendel and get excellent velocity.

Ok you guys have confirmed H335 is viable for 223 and 6.5g.

I have to do some scope swapping, my Vortex 5x25 may be shelling out? All of a sudden I could no longer get 1 moa groups with factory ammo that I had enjoyed.

That led to some bad range days with development loads.

I use speer 52g 223 for 1 1/8 moa plinkers with cfe223 (without can) better with. I'm going to use them with the H335 for a better test.

I went with some bulk 55g bullets on my first test with the H335 and it didn't get below 1 1/2 moa and I was disappointed.


I will use some of the speer load as a controll for the next round of tests to make sure nothing has came unglued.

CRAP just now got informed my sons family tested positive cv19.

Will see if my natural immune antibodies work cause last time for me was rough.

No clot shot here.

 

[CxAgent]

Thanks man. I was wondering if 8208 might be a bit fast for that bullet. I primarily shoot the 100 grain ELDM and 95 grain vmax, and love 8208 with those bullets. I have 748. Ill give that a whirl if I can't scrounge up some CFE.

What is your load on the 100gr ELD-M. My last round of development did not go so good. Appeared to be way over pressure but was within the Hogden load limits. I am using 8208 xbr

 

[glock63]

What is your load on the 100gr ELD-M. My last round of development did not go so good. Appeared to be way over pressure but was within the Hogden load limits. I am using 8208 xbr

I settled on 30.4 grains in hornady brass, with a CCI 450 primer.

 

[Snuby642]

I recently ran into a problem with published loads.

Gets dicey quick if you run the ogive to nearly jam using loads developed for bullets with shorter bto.
Backed off by 0.02 from jam and no more stiff bolt.

I should have known to check bto when running another bullet even in same grain weight.

 

[glock63]

I recently ran into a problem with published loads.

Gets dicey quick if you run the ogive to nearly jam using loads developed for bullets with shorter bto.
Backed off by 0.02 from jam and no more stiff bolt.

I should have known to check bto when running another bullet even in same grain weight.

I encountered this too. I think it was the 95 vmax. I load them at 2.20 OAL. At full mag length (2.250) they were sticking in the lands upon chambering.

 

[LRRPF52]

You’ll find that any of the tangent ogive short bullets need to be loaded pretty short in most chambers, otherwise you’re jamming the lands.

The more secant bullets can be loaded to the magazine-restricted COLs typically.

Best way I’ve found for myself is to make dummy cartridges with the projectiles I load and check max seating depth that way.

I coat the ogive with black marker, then check if there is any land engagement, get a rough idea with the calipers how much, then seat back farther than that.

 

[SMTGWKD]

Here's my load for 6.5 G - shoots sub MOA in 2 rifles (both Faxon barrels and both about .8 MOA for 5 shot groups with the occasional unicorn group of .4)

Hornady Brass
CCI 450
124 ELD-M
27.1gr XBR8208

I shot about 50 at 27.7-28.0 grains but as referenced earlier, pressure spikes are sneaky with xbr8208. The load at 27.1 isn't a speed demon with only 2353 fps, but its accurate, good on brass, and low SDs.

My entire kids age 15, 12, and 10 all made consistent hits at 994 yards with this load (higher elevation in Utah).

I've learned not to push cartridges beyond their intended pressure trying to make them into something they aren't.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Here's my load for 6.5 G - shoots sub MOA in 2 rifles (both Faxon barrels and both about .8 MOA for 5 shot groups with the occasional unicorn group of .4)

Hornady Brass
CCI 450
124 ELD-M
27.1gr XBR8208

I shot about 50 at 27.7-28.0 grains but as referenced earlier, pressure spikes are sneaky with xbr8208. The load at 27.1 isn't a speed demon with only 2353 fps, but its accurate, good on brass, and low SDs.

My entire kids age 15, 12, and 10 all made consistent hits at 994 yards with this load (higher elevation in Utah).

I've learned not to push cartridges beyond their intended pressure trying to make them into something they aren't.

What length bbl?

 

[SMTGWKD]

What length bbl?

16" Faxon Match Big Gunner

 

[FuhQ]

New Video! Comparing my Dead Air Sandman-S to my Nomad-LT on the 6.5 Grendel.

 

[Desert Demon]

New to reloading my Grendel. Working up a load with Lapua Brass 26.6-27.4gr H4895 with Nosler 120gr BTs (because I have them).

All my brass came out with dented mouths after firing. What is causing this? Any help is appreciated.

I don’t want to try and mandrel it and dent the case more….

 

[Snuby642]

Imho that dent will come out easily with a standard die or mandrell.

A mandrell is your friend.

 

[LRRPF52]

New to reloading my Grendel. Working up a load with Lapua Brass 26.6-27.4gr H4895 with Nosler 120gr BTs (because I have them).

All my brass came out with dented mouths after firing. What is causing this? Any help is appreciated.

I don’t want to try and mandrel it and dent the case more….

Dented mouths happen when the brass ejects and hits the spent brass deflector. Adhesive pile tape (Velcro) solve that for most. You can also clip coils off your ejector spring to tame your ejection force.

It doesn’t really matter though since the re-sizing operation will open the mouths.

It has never been an issue for me in over 12 years of loading for Grendel regularly, but the question comes up at least once a month.

 

[LRRPF52]

Will someone please get in contact with this guy before he does any worse:



He’s at least 3 full GRAINS over max charge weight under a 120gr Gold Dot, exploring into pressures and failure nodes I’ve never seen before.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Will someone please get in contact with this guy before he does any worse:



He’s at least 3 full GRAINS over max charge weight under a 120gr Gold Dot, exploring into pressures and failure nodes I’ve never seen before.

His fingers and eyes are overrated....

Surprised his bolt still has lugs.

Guy is gonna hurt himself

 

[LRRPF52]

I found a way to contact him, as he’s apparently an acquaintance/friend of a friend.

He generally has some good content from what I recall, but this was astonishing to watch really.

The lesson here is that Quick Load is a terrible source of pressure data for 6.5 Grendel, and we already knew that many years ago after comparing a 6 month calibrated test breech before even taking any (what we considered) valid readings. QL proved to be 10,000-20,000psi off from actual readings, and we used known production ammunition, multiple published charge weights from Hodgdon’s where pressure data was given, and a matrix of known data points as a sanity check.

Don’t use QL for developing loads for 6.5 Grendel. You have to change the data points inside QL to build your own internal ballistics model to get any valid predictions from it.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Just another example of "don't take internet load data as gospel" & always work up safely in your own gun.

I admit, when he said the powder was reverse flowing out of the pierced primer, I may have snorted and nearly covered my dash in coffee. Hopefully he pulls that video so no one else tries to load that high with negative effects.

 

[LRRPF52]

Just another example of "don't take internet load data as gospel" & always work up safely in your own gun.

I admit, when he said the powder was reverse flowing out of the pierced primer, I may have snorted and nearly covered my dash in coffee. Hopefully he pulls that video so no one else tries to load that high with negative effects.

Yeah, the primers were blanking in reverse. Normally with pierced primers, I’ve seen the primer material that separates flow around the firing pin inside of the firing pin channel. I’ve had that happen with the .260 Rem AR gasser with a certain powder/bullet combo that I don’t recall off the top. I was within limits, but the RLGS with a slower-burning powder didn’t play well together shooting 140gr or 142gr SMK if I recall.

Upon disassembly, I found rings wrapped around the firing pin, which was pretty unnerving. I decided that I just wasn’t seeing many benefits from 140gr class in that rifle because there were adverse penalties as I tried to approach max loads using safe procedures, so I settled on 130gr VLD and didn’t look back.

He must have a pretty tight firing pin aperture to prevent the primer blanking from detaching from the primer cup. It takes a lot of pressure to do what he was doing, and that is well beyond what normally blows primers (~70,000psi). I wonder if he’s using a JP bolt.

 

[Snuby642]

Cfe223
You go up till groups get nice.
0.3 above that is usually the start of scatter and another 0.3 grains the start of pressure signs .

Don't care what caliber, same same.

Compress cfe223? Wtf

The guy shoots one round and says "that's accurate "?

Should pull vidio from sh.

 

[glock63]

I found a way to contact him, as he’s apparently an acquaintance/friend of a friend.

He generally has some good content from what I recall, but this was astonishing to watch really.

The lesson here is that Quick Load is a terrible source of pressure data for 6.5 Grendel, and we already knew that many years ago after comparing a 6 month calibrated test breech before even taking any (what we considered) valid readings. QL proved to be 10,000-20,000psi off from actual readings, and we used known production ammunition, multiple published charge weights from Hodgdon’s where pressure data was given, and a matrix of known data points as a sanity check.

Don’t use QL for developing loads for 6.5 Grendel. You have to change the data points inside QL to build your own internal ballistics model to get any valid predictions from it.

I've found quickload to be quite unreliable with calibers and powders that aren't mainstream as well. My latest example would be 264 winchester and reloader 33. Ran into pressure much quicker than they said I should have.

 

[LRRPF52]

I used QL once with an experimental solid bullet in .260 Remington once. They were cut-down 120gr GMXs to 94gr.

I looked at 95gr V-MAX data and stepped down from that at least a full grain, since I was using a solid, and still had a blown-primer out-of-the gate. QL predictions were at least 10,000psi off there too. I built a bracket using 100gr Barnes TTSX data too just to get sanity-check for something similar in weight and construction and it still didn’t work out.

Due diligence with established work-up loading procedures is all I do, never QL again.

I will start with 10% below max and work up in 1% usable case volume increments so I can see the velocity trend over a chronograph.

It’s simply not worth it to try to short-cut around working up a load.

 

[glock63]

I used QL once with an experimental solid bullet in .260 Remington once. They were cut-down 120gr GMXs to 94gr.

I looked at 95gr V-MAX data and stepped down from that at least a full grain, since I was using a solid, and still had a blown-primer out-of-the gate. QL predictions were at least 10,000psi off there too. I built a bracket using 100gr Barnes TTSX data too just to get sanity-check for something similar in weight and construction and it still didn’t work out.

Due diligence with established work-up loading procedures is all I do, never QL again.

I will start with 10% below max and work up in 1% usable case volume increments so I can see the velocity trend over a chronograph.

It’s simply not worth it to try to short-cut around working up a load.

Agree. Quite honestly, if I could get a refund on my QL purchase, I would. I simply don't see the utility I thought I would. I dont feel its any fault of the developers, but there are just too many variables that can't be accounted for.

 

[CxAgent]

When reloading I typicall use a number of published resources, quick load, Gordens reloading tool, Seirra reloading manual, and Hornady reloading manual, the Hogden Reloading Data Center, and most recent is both volumes of the grendel reloading manuals. Between all of them I am usually pretty confident that the reloads are safe.

My latest 6.5 Grendel venture I loaded some 100GR ELD-M with IMR 8208XBR. Reloading data center shows max load at 30.8 grains. I loaded up 5 rounds each 30.2, 30.4, 30.6, and 30.8. Gordens reloading tool and quickload both show these loads slightly over the 52k with velocities in the 2614 to 2682. My velocities ranged from 2730 to a high of 2800.

So here is what had me perplexed. I have loaded a bunch of different bullets in the 120 - 123 classs and some 107's and in each instance velocities were well below the published or calculated data. Up until now I have never exceeded quickloads predicted elocity. An adjustment to Ba and seems to bring velocity inline with the measured velocity and then I can guage pressures.

This particular load appears to run hotter where all other loads are typically below what quickload / Gordons / Hogden predict. The 1 difference is the barrel. I have a 20: AR Stoner barrel, a 24" PF chambered barrel, and the Faxom which was used in this outing.

Once Igot home I measured head space with the Hornady gauge and noticed the cases from two highest charges were warped. I could not get them seated squarely in the head space gauge and flat on the base.

The cases for the two lower charges measure nearly the same as the ones from the Stoner of PF chambered barrels, so I suspect all 3 chambers are SAAMI chambers as advertised.

The only conclusion I can come up with is the neck tension with the Hornady brass and the 100gr allowed the bullet to set back in the case substantially raing pressures.

Dropped the charges to 29.2, 29.4 and 29.6 and did not see any pressure signs. I need to load maore for velocity readings and see how that compares.

30.2 2740 Avg fps
30.4 2759 Avg fps
30.6 2768 Avg fps Minor ejector marks slight flattening needs to be angled just right to see the marks
30.8 2796 Avg fps Minor ejector marks slight flattening needs to be angled just right to see the marks


Case: Hornady once fired and resized
Primer: CCI #41
Power: 8208XBR 30.2, 30.4, 30.6, and 30.8
Bullet 100GR ELD-M
COAL:2.20 CBTO 1.671
Barrel Faxom 16" Gunner series

 

[stello1001]

Has anyone here shot deer inside 150 yards with factory loaded 123 ELDMs?

Did they work well?

 

[Huckleberry75]

Has anyone here shot deer inside 150 yards with factory loaded 123 ELDMs?

Did they work well?

They will work. Ideal....meh, but they do fine. I prefer the 129ablr, personally, but the 123 will work. Coyotes do not enjoy them either.

 

[Snuby642]

Isn't that what the sst was ment for?

 

[stello1001]

Isn't that what the sst was ment for?

I'm sure it's meant for that but I don't really like the bullet. I really really like bonded bullets for deer. Gold dots and the fusion ammo are great but since the ELDM is what is available right now, I wanted to ask about it.

 

[glock63]

When reloading I typicall use a number of published resources, quick load, Gordens reloading tool, Seirra reloading manual, and Hornady reloading manual, the Hogden Reloading Data Center, and most recent is both volumes of the grendel reloading manuals. Between all of them I am usually pretty confident that the reloads are safe.

My latest 6.5 Grendel venture I loaded some 100GR ELD-M with IMR 8208XBR. Reloading data center shows max load at 30.8 grains. I loaded up 5 rounds each 30.2, 30.4, 30.6, and 30.8. Gordens reloading tool and quickload both show these loads slightly over the 52k with velocities in the 2614 to 2682. My velocities ranged from 2730 to a high of 2800.

So here is what had me perplexed. I have loaded a bunch of different bullets in the 120 - 123 classs and some 107's and in each instance velocities were well below the published or calculated data. Up until now I have never exceeded quickloads predicted elocity. An adjustment to Ba and seems to bring velocity inline with the measured velocity and then I can guage pressures.

This particular load appears to run hotter where all other loads are typically below what quickload / Gordons / Hogden predict. The 1 difference is the barrel. I have a 20: AR Stoner barrel, a 24" PF chambered barrel, and the Faxom which was used in this outing.

Once Igot home I measured head space with the Hornady gauge and noticed the cases from two highest charges were warped. I could not get them seated squarely in the head space gauge and flat on the base.

The cases for the two lower charges measure nearly the same as the ones from the Stoner of PF chambered barrels, so I suspect all 3 chambers are SAAMI chambers as advertised.

The only conclusion I can come up with is the neck tension with the Hornady brass and the 100gr allowed the bullet to set back in the case substantially raing pressures.

Dropped the charges to 29.2, 29.4 and 29.6 and did not see any pressure signs. I need to load maore for velocity readings and see how that compares.

30.2 2740 Avg fps
30.4 2759 Avg fps
30.6 2768 Avg fps Minor ejector marks slight flattening needs to be angled just right to see the marks
30.8 2796 Avg fps Minor ejector marks slight flattening needs to be angled just right to see the marks


Case: Hornady once fired and resized
Primer: CCI #41
Power: 8208XBR 30.2, 30.4, 30.6, and 30.8
Bullet 100GR ELD-M
COAL:2.20 CBTO 1.671
Barrel Faxom 16" Gunner series

Where did you find best accuracy with the 100 eldm and 8208?

 

[CxAgent]

Where did you find best accuracy with the 100 eldm and 8208?

I have not settled on a load yet

 

[Desert Demon]

I am going to try out either either the 108 or 123 Scenars in my 16” Grendel. Does anyone have experience with either of these bullets and any of the following powders:
RL-15
CFE223
H4895
H4350
Ramshot Hunter
Win760ball
H414

Thanks

 

[LRRPF52]

I am going to try out either either the 108 or 123 Scenars in my 16” Grendel. Does anyone have experience with either of these bullets and any of the following powders:
RL-15
CFE223
H4895
H4350
Ramshot Hunter
Win760ball
H414

Thanks

H4350 is too slow for Grendel. One of the slowest powders you will find data for, N540, is normally only used under 140gr class cup and core bullets. H4350 is farther down on the burn rate chart than N540, so well outside of what we load in Grendel.

The 2 powders you have listed that are better for Grendel are RL-15 and CFE-223. Since you’re in AZ, CFE223 won’t be too bad for temp sensitivity as the weather is pretty constant (hot, extra hot, super hot within 40˚ of each other).

CFE223 will give you the most velocity hands-down, and increases accuracy with more case fill.

I would load CFE223 starting at 28.0gr under the 108gr Scenar, work up in .3gr increments with two single string ladders over a chrono, and don’t exceed 31.5gr. If you see velocity trend departures before then, stop at that point. You’ll have to settle the powder or use a drop tube to get that high with the long Scenar bullets.

For the 123gr Scenar, I wouldn’t exceed 31.2gr of CFE223. It’s a bit longer than a 123gr A-MAX, SST, or ELD-M.

You can play with seating depth based on your chamber and get really good results with CFE223 under both bullets.

The 108gr Scenar is a 123gr Scenar jacket with less lead core material, so it builds start pressure more like a 120gr Cup/Core bullet.

Sierra has data for H4895 under 120gr and 123gr SMKs. Treat the 108gr Scenar like a 120gr HPBT cup/core bullet, not like the 107gr SMK when looking up load data for it. Vihtavuori has data for their powders under the 108gr Scenar, as does Alexander Arms.

Start-max loads using Hornady case with H4895 are:

108gr Scenar/120gr SMK
24.2 start
27.4 max with 2500fps from a 24” barrel (not a very efficient powder for speed at least)

Under 123gr SMK/Scenar (I’ve found data from multiple sources and experience for these 2 bullets to be interchangeable.)
H4895
23.4 start
27.1 max

 

[Desert Demon]

Thank you. This is exactly what I needed.

 

[glock63]

Anyone else out there loading the 100 grain eldm with 8208? Its ok at 30.4, but not near as good as the 100 grain ballistic tip at 30.2.

 

[zeroz]

I get really good accuracy out of 127 LRX, 123 smk and 130tmk with h 4895. Its no speed demon but the temp stability is there.

 

[stello1001]

Anyone ever try 130 AR hybrids on the grendel with a shortish barrel?

I'm thinking since I have an unopened box of 500 of these, maybe I should just try them. Although I really prefer them for my creed.

Ideally, I would prefer to use lighter hunting bullets but there aren't any in stock. I found some 127 LRX and 120 noslter E-tips but these are way too long for the grendel.

 

[Snuby642]

I don't think the 130's are an expanding bullet.

 

[stello1001]

I don't think the 130's are an expanding bullet.

They're not but it's a berger lol. They are deadly on deer...

 

[Snuby642]

Ya if Berger would make a slightly lighter 6.5 hybrid hunter that would give me a woody.

 

[zeroz]

I found some 127 LRX and 120 noslter E-tips but these are way too long for the grendel.

For being too long Ive put a bunch of critters down with the Grendel and 127 LRX's. This year alone. A big mulie, 4 whitetails, a pile of hogs and a cow elk.

 

[Huckleberry75]

I run the 129 ABLR in mine and its devastating. Having said that, if you want some speed and a lighter pill, look at Maker-T-Rex or Cavity Back bullets for all copper hunting pills.

 

[stello1001]

For being too long Ive put a bunch of critters down with the Grendel and 127 LRX's. This year alone. A big mulie, 4 whitetails, a pile of hogs and a cow elk.

What kinda MVs were you getting and with what barrel length? Were you sacrificing much powder column in the case? What was your overall length?

This is a great bullet but I just didnt think it would be too practical in the grendel. I'm happy to hear someone's running it successfully.

I run the 129 ABLR in mine and its devastating. Having said that, if you want some speed and a lighter pill, look at Maker-T-Rex or Cavity Back bullets for all copper hunting pills.

I'll looke those up but in these times, there isn't much in stock. Last night I was only able to find the 127 LRX & the 120 Nosler E-tips...