6.5 PRC vs 300 wsm

[generalzip]

Looking to build a long range hunting barreled action to go in my MPA Hybrid. Have narrowed it down between 300wsm and 6.5 PRC. Here's what I'm looking to do with it and limitations:

1. Deer, mule, elk hunt out to ~800 yards (about as far as I'm confident taking a shot with these rounds if conditions are right)
2. Want a short action to keep length and weight down
3. Looking for .5 MOA accuracy or better
4. Looking to keep weight to a minimum

The two options I'm considering are a Christensen Arms MPR in 6.5 PRC, or an Impact with Light/Medium Palma 24" Bartlien barrel. I previously owned a 6.5 Creed PRC and it was a great rifle.

Really what I need is some direction on which round would be better suited for hunting. I have purpose built competition rifles and truck guns. This rifle would not be used like that. Could potentially go on an elk hunt (hiking), so weight is important. I like that the 6.5 PRC has less recoil but the 300 wsm has more energy. The 6.5 has nice high BC bullets (147 ELD). I reload so I can pick any bullet or powder combo.

 

[_Windrider_]

well, if you are looking for a short action, the win mag is out. guess that leaves your answer obvious.

 

[generalzip]

well, if you are looking for a short action, the win mag is out. guess that leaves your answer obvious.

I'm looking at a 300 WSM not WM. Winchester SHORT magnum

 

[_Windrider_]

I'm looking at a 300 WSM not WM. Winchester SHORT magnum

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Missed that little detail. There is a good thread on 300 PRC that discusses all the PRC stuff, i suggest you read it through. could help you.

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/300-prc-update.6890837/page-5#post-7311496

 

[generalzip]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Missed that little detail. There is a good thread on 300 PRC that discusses all the PRC stuff, i suggest you read it through. could help you.

The 300 PRC is also a long action cartidge...

 

[_Windrider_]

The 300 PRC is also a long action cartidge...

I know. but there is a lot of discussion about other stuff in there. just saying read through. could be helpful.

 

[surgeon260]

For hunting elk at 800 yards, I would go with the 300 WSM hands down. There is a big difference in energy at that distance. A Berger 215 at 2850+ would be great elk medicine. Consider your throat dimensions carefully with the WSM. A SAAMI spec 300 WSM chamber will really hamstring you with heavy bullets.

 

[_Windrider_]

or here

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/6-5-prc.6880255/page-4#post-7312791

 

[W54/XM-388]

There is also the 6.5 SAUM 4S and the 7mm SAUM that you could consider if you wanted to stay in the 6.5 to 7mm range and have more energy than the 6.5 PRC

 

[generalzip]

With the RL26 I have on hand I’m confident I could get a 147 grain bullet to around 3100 fps. Compared to say a 215 grain 30 cal bullet at around 2850 is there really much difference on the animal end?

The 147 at 3100 has 1400 ft lbs still at 800 yards which is probably about the cut off for elk I’d imagine. I also have a 28 nosler Christensen arms that could be used on an elk hunt where I know a long shot is a high possibly. Really trying to find a lighter handy rifle that fills the gap between a 28 nosler and 6.5 creedmoor. I also load for 6.5 creed already so have bullets on hand which is a plus.

Would you be comfortable with the energy left shooting a mule deer at 7-800 yards with a hand loaded 6.5 prc?

 

[generalzip]

There is also the 6.5 SAUM 4S and the 7mm SAUM that you could consider if you wanted to stay in the 6.5 to 7mm range and have more energy than the 6.5 PRC

Very true. Trying to stay away from the SAUMs as I’d like easily available brass in the future. I know the PRC is an unknown but having hornady backing it makes me feel a bit better.

 

[Bandit31]

I'd go with the 300wsm over the PRC. I haven't kept up much with the 6.5 PRC but from what I've seen, those reaching 3100fps with the 147's are running 28"+ barrels, which I wouldn't really equate to being handy or light weight.

Just speaking from experience with my 6.5 SAUM, reaching 3100fps in a shorter barrel would be a chore and I wouldn't be optimistic about brass life as I was running into pressure at 3089fps with a 26" barrel.

I'd also look at the new 200gr Sierra MK and the 200 & 208 Hornady's in the WSM. Just looking at some data, both Barnes and Nosler show 2850-2900+ with 200gr bullets in the 300wsm's and that's without the new Alliant powders and lighter 175-185gr's can be pushed 3100-3150fps+.

 

[surgeon260]

With the RL26 I have on hand I’m confident I could get a 147 grain bullet to around 3100 fps. Compared to say a 215 grain 30 cal bullet at around 2850 is there really much difference on the animal end?

...

Would you be comfortable with the energy left shooting a mule deer at 7-800 yards with a hand loaded 6.5 prc?

The short answer to your first question is yes. My calculations show a ~600 ft lb difference in energy at 800 yards. But the 215 also has more sectional density than the 147 (0.324 for the 215 vs 0.301 for the 147) and the bigger diameter bullet is going to cause more trauma.

In answer to your second question, I would feel more comfortable using the 6.5 PRC on mule deer than elk. Elk are significantly bigger and tougher animals. FWIW, my elk rifle this year is a 300 NM Imp shooting Berger 230s at 3075.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I wouldn’t worry about brass for the 6.5 SAUM, Prime Ammo has factory ammo coming out soon and that is RUAG (Norma) brass, so I expect Norma will start selling it too.

 

[knuckleballz]

Your 28 nosler is the perfect solution for your elk hunt. 6.5 prc is the obvious choice to fit between your 6.5 creedmoor and your 28 nosler.

 

[stalwart300]

Adg brass is suppose to release 7 saum brass soon too.

 

[generalzip]

All Good input. I appreciate the thoughts guys. I think the 28 nosler will be the go to for elk based off this. Sounds like the 6.5 PRC or Saum is a better choice for long range deer. Also I’ll likely be shooting off a tripod and with a light rifle I’d imagine the lighter recoil may be better

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Saw a post in the PRC fb group where a dude killed a stud of an elk at 1k with the PRC, 147s, and RL26. Just saying. It can be done.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

And 26" barrel

 

[Ripdog28]

Not sure about others numbers but my 6.5CM pushing 140g with 23.5” barrel still has 1429ft/lb at 1k. No over pressure either. Also, bigger Bullets don’t cause more trauma. There are many factors that go into that. Bullet design, energy, material hit..... Don’t fall into The old belief that you need a certain size Bullet to kill X animal. There are several topics on that in these forums. Use what your comfortable shooting and know the data on it.

 

[BCX]

I’m confident you could reach 3100 fps w the 147 Eld w a 25/26 inch barrel w Rl-26. I’m running 3150 w a 28 inch and should hit 3200 in the spring.. I will take accuracy over speed anyday tho lol!

 

[BCX]

Man if you already have a 6.5 CM as a light rifle and a 28 Nosler idk I think I would save the money. Maybe upgrade a scope or take the old lady away for the weekend. Hahaha

 

[jbuck88]

I just built a rifle for the exact safe thing and debated the same cartridges.

I went with the 300WSM:
Ammo availability at small town hardware stores
The larger diameter for elk (more energy as well. )
Component availability for reloading
The wind drift is negligible at hunting distances I’m comfortable at.
Had a case of 300wsm ammo and no gun.

 

[stello1001]

I say go with the .30 cal from your two options!!!

 

[MOUNTIC]

I would go with the 300 WSM in a 23 inch barrel. Factory 200gr eldx ammo slings them at a modest 2800-2810 fps out of the two 23" wsm guns I own. Hand loads even faster, but not every rifle I own I want to spends weeks and months developing hand loads for when off the shelf stuff gets it done here. Can find ammo in every sporting goods store.

I shot one of mine this afternoon through 1k yards and hit a 10 inch plate every time from 100-1k with Hornady factory 200gr eldx. Rifle is short enough to be a brush gun, light enough to be a pack deep in the high county gun, and also a long range hunting gun, all in one compact light weight package. So for me, for elk, I would pick the 300 wsm. Don't need a 26 inch tube to get it done.

 

[Sticks]

I'm pushing 147 ELD out of my 26" 6.5 PRC at 3030fps with RL26 and Federal primers. I stopped there as I have a speed limit at the one match that I shoot. 3100+ should be no problem.

What ever caliber you choose, I'd try to get one that will capitalize on a high BC pill and terminal performance.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

will 6.5 PRC work in a tikka short action?

 

[stello1001]

will 6.5 PRC work in a tikka short action?

All tikkas are long action

 

[Sniperwannabee]

All tikkas are long action

except the bolt face

 

[stello1001]

except the bolt face

I think different bolt stops is what I hear people call them. I could be wrong tho. 6.5 PRC was designed to work in short action but you may not be able to take advantage to seating the longer bullets out due to limited mag internal space!

 

[stello1001]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong

 

[ddavis]

I think different bolt stops is what I hear people call them. I could be wrong tho. 6.5 PRC was designed to work in short action but you may not be able to take advantage to seating the longer bullets out due to limited mag internal space!

Correct, only the bolt stop differs with Tikka SA and LA. The problem you run into is that Tikka's can't be ran with an AICS LA mag. You are stuck with factory LA mags, or MDT makes their chassis with their special mags as sort of an intermediate length to get a little more than standard SAAMI LA length. I have my Tikka 28 Nosler set up this way.

To the OP:
If you already have a 28 Nosler, 6.5 CM and will now have a 300 WSM or 6.5 PRC, how in the hell are you going to decide which one to take? I have this problem all the time. Which gun should I take? They are all worthy.

-Dan

 

[Smokerroller]

I hunt elk and big game long range with a 300 WSM and hand loads (out to 850 but I would go to 1K if conditions were perfect). Between those two, I would go WSM. There is not replacement for displacement. People will say "shot placement" and ya that is true. But shot placement isn't always perfect. And sometimes when shot placement is good there still isn't enough damage done to kill an animal fast and in its tracks, such as a lung shot without enough power to really do damage.

 

[Bandit31]

Correct, only the bolt stop differs with Tikka SA and LA. The problem you run into is that Tikka's can't be ran with an AICS LA mag. You are stuck with factory LA mags, or MDT makes their chassis with their special mags as sort of an intermediate length to get a little more than standard SAAMI LA length. I have my Tikka 28 Nosler set up this way.

To the OP:
If you already have a 28 Nosler, 6.5 CM and will now have a 300 WSM or 6.5 PRC, how in the hell are you going to decide which one to take? I have this problem all the time. Which gun should I take? They are all worthy.

-Dan

That's not entirely true. There's already several manufacturers that make bottom metals for Tikka's to accept AICS LA mags.

CDI, Mountain tactical, Redsnake, and Atlasworks all make them. I'm sure there's a few others I missed as well.

 

[ddavis]

That's not entirely true. There's already several manufacturers that make bottom metals for Tikka's to accept AICS LA mags.

CDI, Mountain tactical, Redsnake, and Atlasworks all make them. I'm sure there's a few others I missed as well.

I'm not sure how that works when the total length of the action opening from front of trigger pack to feed ramp is shorter than a LA AICS mag will allow. Are people cutting out the feed ramp area? I've been down this road and it's not just a drop in kinda thing.

-Dan

 

[Bandit31]

I'm not sure how that works when the total length of the action opening from front of trigger pack to feed ramp is shorter than a LA AICS mag will allow. Are people cutting out the feed ramp area? I've been down this road and it's not just a drop in kinda thing.

-Dan

The only one that I'm aware of that requires anymore modification than minor stock inletting is the mountain tactical, which they have a video of on their website. It's also the one that offers the longest coal possible per specs. The rest take the Aics La mag for a max Coal of 3.500" , plenty enough for both the 6.5 prc and 300wsm that are in question, and there's already a few that have been using them for some time on here. What further modifications they require other than what's listed, is beyond me as I have no use for them, just merely stating that option exists.

 

[Jowens]

WSM with 215 Bergers

 

[generalzip]

Man if you already have a 6.5 CM as a light rifle and a 28 Nosler idk I think I would save the money. Maybe upgrade a scope or take the old lady away for the weekend. Hahaha

Haha. No old lady yet. The 28 nosler is great and accurate but unwieldy in a stand. I always hunt with a can. Looking for a 22-24” barrel on either rifle. The advantage with the prc is I could get a Christensen modern precision rifle out if the box and be good to go. No wait. Finding stock. Reasonable price. To build a similar wsm would likely be about a grand more. Just wondering if it’s worth the extra ft lbs of energy and added recoil

 

[generalzip]

Does either cartridge have an advantage in the case capacity space? Being limited to a short action, these heavy for caliber bullets are long and could possibly limit case capacity. Is this an issue on either the PRC or wsm? I think the PRC is like a creedmoor to the 260 rem? Gives up a little case capacity for allow for longer bullets?

 

[Sticks]

I'm pushing 147 ELD out of my 26" 6.5 PRC at 3030fps with RL26 and Federal primers. I stopped there as I have a speed limit at the one match that I shoot. 3100+ should be no problem.

What ever caliber you choose, I'd try to get one that will capitalize on a high BC pill and terminal performance.

FWIW I reviewing my load data from the last test and my 54.5gr (Hornady Max Load) RL26 load came in as ;

Average 3135.51 fps
Highest 3144.38 fps
Lowest 3130.23 fps
Ext. Spread 14.15 fps
Std. Dev 7.73 fps

Still easy bolt lift, primers had round edges, no marks in the case head at all. 3200 ought to be achievable in a 26" w/o issue.

I have not shot it yet with a bare muzzle, but the MPA brake has about the same recoil as my 16" 5.56 middy, and with the Omega 30, it was about equal to an unbraked Howa mini 1500 in Grendel.

 

[jbuck88]

I have only ever shot my 24” 300wsm with the silencerco omega installed. The recoil is very manageable.

I have had 2 CA rifles a Classic Carbon and a Carbon Ridgeline, both shot well under a inch at 100yds. Personally I don’t like the chassis feel on a hunting rifle and much prefer a traditional stock.

There are a lot of new or like new stocks around on the classifieds. And Chad at LRI did an amazing job and was around 2 weeks from when I sent everything to when i got it back.

 

[wind gypsy]

My two primary hunting rfiles are a 6.5 SAUM and a 300 WSM - I want a 7 SAUM.

So split the difference and go 7 (if you hand load).

 

[generalzip]

My two primary hunting rfiles are a 6.5 SAUM and a 300 WSM - I want a 7 SAUM.

So split the difference and go 7 (if you hand load).

Why wouldn’t you just choose 7wsm at that point? Wouldn’t there be more ammo and component availability? I do handload, but I’d probably try to avoid wildcats simply due to components and resale value

 

[alaskalanche]

Not sure about others numbers but my 6.5CM pushing 140g with 23.5” barrel still has 1429ft/lb at 1k. No over pressure either. Also, bigger Bullets don’t cause more trauma. There are many factors that go into that. Bullet design, energy, material hit..... Don’t fall into The old belief that you need a certain size Bullet to kill X animal. There are several topics on that in these forums. Use what your comfortable shooting and know the data on it.

At what elevation are you getting a 140 from a 6.5 CM to retain 1400+ ft/lbs at 1k?

I have a 6.5 CM 24” I am shooting 147s at 2875 fps and at where I hunt at 2500’ of elevation it only has 1760 fps and just over 1k of energy.

Granted I don’t put much stock in ft lbs of energy I really only care about having enough velocity for the bullet to expand regardless of cartridge and caliber.

I am building a new hunting rifle for a lightweight and handy rifle that I can run suppressed as my 27” carbon 7 wsm in a chassis is manageable at 12 pounds and folding stock hits like a hammer and 175-180 elds hold on to velocity and energy well but I wanted something a bit more portable.

I almost just opted for a shorter barrel 7 wsm then was like you in between a 6.5 prc and 300 wsm. Ultimately I chose a 300 wsm. As it’s more versatile. I just bought my 22” proof barrel a couple days ago. I load 178 eldx at 3180 fps for my buddy’s 24” barrel 300 wsm and I am thinking I can get 165 Sierra game changers to atleast that velocity even with 2” less barrel. This would be my general hunting load but then also have the option to load up 200 accubond, 215 Berger, and 212 eldx for brown bear and heavier game. Just found it would give me more options to use the rifle than being limited to 150 grain or less.

In a 24” with RL-26 one should certainly get 165 Sierra tipped game kings well north of 3200 fps and yes the lesser BC compared to the 147 I shoot in my 6.5 cm does slow down faster but still at 1k yards 6.0 MILs of elevation and 1.2 MILs of wind for the 165 at 3200 compared to the 147 at 3100 fps which is 5.5 and .9 MILs of wind is pretty close and I would be willing to bet one isn’t getting 3100 fps from a handier 22” barrel from a 147 out of a 6.5 PRC.

At the OP limit of 800 yards it’s even less. But like I said it really came down to versatility and a shorty 22” barrel that I can load heavier for brown bear as well as put 165 for a flat shooting rifle for general hunting inside 800 and realistically for me inside 600 yard is plenty fine. If expecting longer shots then the 7 wsm is getting the nod much like your 28 nosler (which is what my 7 wsm wants to be when it grows up)

I can certainly see merits for both the 6.5 PRC and 300 wsm and it ultimately comes down to what one wants certainly and for me the option for heavier bullets in the 300 wsm won out over the faster/flatter (after 600 yards) of the 6.5 PRC.

And yes a 22” barrel 7 wsm I think still beats them both and I likely should have went that way for simplicity sake

 

[Ripdog28]

At what elevation are you getting a 140 from a 6.5 CM to retain 1400+ ft/lbs at 1k?

I have a 6.5 CM 24” I am shooting 147s at 2875 fps and at where I hunt at 2500’ of elevation it only has 1760 fps and just over 1k of energy.

Granted I don’t put much stock in ft lbs of energy I really only care about having enough velocity for the bullet to expand regardless of cartridge and caliber.

I am building a new hunting rifle for a lightweight and handy rifle that I can run suppressed as my 27” carbon 7 wsm in a chassis is manageable at 12 pounds and folding stock hits like a hammer and 175-180 elds hold on to velocity and energy well but I wanted something a bit more portable.

I almost just opted for a shorter barrel 7 wsm then was like you in between a 6.5 prc and 300 wsm. Ultimately I chose a 300 wsm. As it’s more versatile. I just bought my 22” proof barrel a couple days ago. I load 178 eldx at 3180 fps for my buddy’s 24” barrel 300 wsm and I am thinking I can get 165 Sierra game changers to atleast that velocity even with 2” less barrel. This would be my general hunting load but then also have the option to load up 200 accubond, 215 Berger, and 212 eldx for brown bear and heavier game. Just found it would give me more options to use the rifle than being limited to 150 grain or less.

In a 24” with RL-26 one should certainly get 165 Sierra tipped game kings well north of 3200 fps and yes the lesser BC compared to the 147 I shoot in my 6.5 cm does slow down faster but still at 1k yards 6.0 MILs of elevation and 1.2 MILs of wind for the 165 at 3200 compared to the 147 at 3100 fps which is 5.5 and .9 MILs of wind is pretty close and I would be willing to bet one isn’t getting 3100 fps from a handier 22” barrel from a 147 out of a 6.5 PRC.

At the OP limit of 800 yards it’s even less. But like I said it really came down to versatility and a shorty 22” barrel that I can load heavier for brown bear as well as put 165 for a flat shooting rifle for general hunting inside 800 and realistically for me inside 600 yard is plenty fine. If expecting longer shots then the 7 wsm is getting the nod much like your 28 nosler (which is what my 7 wsm wants to be when it grows up)

I can certainly see merits for both the 6.5 PRC and 300 wsm and it ultimately comes down to what one wants certainly and for me the option for heavier bullets in the 300 wsm won out over the faster/flatter (after 600 yards) of the 6.5 PRC.

And yes a 22” barrel 7 wsm I think still beats them both and I likely should have went that way for simplicity sake

From my Ballistic AE data and at 500ft elevation. Confirmed dope at 1139yards so I trust the data from AE. At 1000yds it shows it going 2144fps and has 1429ft/lb

If I put your data (147s and 2875fps) into AE for 500ft elevation, I am a few under your numbers.

 

[alaskalanche]

From my Ballistic AE data and at 500ft elevation. Confirmed dope at 1139yards so I trust the data from AE. At 1000yds it shows it going 2144fps and has 1429ft/lb

Wow I am not getting anywhere close to that. My 24” 6.5 cm shooting 147s at 2875 fps shows just over 1700 fps and just over 950 ft lbs of energy. I have ran this out to 1400 and it lines up. Curious what your elevation and wind corrections are in a 10 mph full value at 1k. What’s your starting MV?

 

[generalzip]

Wow I am not getting anywhere close to that. My 24” 6.5 cm shooting 147s at 2875 fps shows just over 1700 fps and just over 950 ft lbs of energy. I have ran this out to 1400 and it lines up. Curious what your elevation and wind corrections are in a 10 mph full value at 1k. What’s your starting MV?

I ran it as well and got your results. I think ripdog must have entered something incorrectly. Maybe g7 when it should be g1

 

[Ripdog28]

I ran it as well and got your results. I think ripdog must have entered something incorrectly. Maybe g7 when it should be g1

I do Use G7. Per Kestrel and other ballistic information, G1 is a flat base bullet and G7 is used for long low drag Bullets. These sites state to use G7 for long range Bullets. Running a G1 with my 140s shows a 1.2mil difference in drop at 1k. At 1139 yards my bullets Impact where the G7 shows my dope.
https://kestrelmeters.com/pages/g1-g7-ballistic-coefficients-what-s-the-difference

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/01/g1-vs-g7-ballistic-coefficients-what-you-need-to-know/

I think Brian Litz can be a trusty source of info.

 

[generalzip]

I do Use G7. Per Kestrel and other ballistic information, G1 is a flat base bullet and G7 is used for long low drag Bullets. These sites state to use G7 for long range Bullets. Running a G1 with my 140s shows a 1.2mil difference in drop at 1k. At 1139 yards my bullets Impact where the G7 shows my dope.
https://kestrelmeters.com/pages/g1-g7-ballistic-coefficients-what-s-the-difference

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/01/g1-vs-g7-ballistic-coefficients-what-you-need-to-know/

I think Brian Litz can be a trusty source of info.

You misunderstood. What I meant is maybe you’re using the G1 value but telling the ballistic program to utilize a G7 drag model. The 147 has a .697 G1 or .351 G7. You you tell the model to run a G7 but enter the value .697 you will be way off

 

[generalzip]

In fact I’m almost positive that’s what you did because I just ran a 147 using a .697 g7 and got numbers very close to yours. Easy mistake to make.