6.5 Rant...

[mhudson1970]

Well, a rant, and some questions I guess...

I'd like to know why Remington has dropped the ball on there .260. Considering the history of this round, and it's ballistics, I'm confused as to why they only offer this caliber in there model Seven's, when they offer there 700's in the 25-06, and 270's, even the Winchester 264mag. I don't know why they wouldn't support there own caliber, the 260, which, from what I've read everywhere, is so well received by those who shoot it. I'm buying a Savage LRP rifle because Remington doesn't make a 700 in there own caliber...

Remington needs to get their act together in the marketing department in my opinion. The 260, 6.5cm, and 6.5-284 are here to stay, and people, who would buy there rifles if offered in those calibers, are going to other venders and gunsmiths to have there rifles made.

Winchester is not much better. I couldn't find a Model 70 in 260, 6.5CM, or 6.5-284. The 284 is a Winchester caliber. Why not commercialize the 6.5-284 under Winchester as a 264WSM? Keep the same 284 case, keep the round just as it is, just make it a commercially availible caliber, and offer it on there rifles. That could be Winchester's answer to the Remington 260, AND THEY WOULD MAKE A KILLING ON IT.

Maybe I'm ignorant about something, but as far as the 6.5 goes, the only major gun maker I've seen so far that really supports the 6.5's commercially is Savage, offering rifles in all three of those short action calibers. Can anybody explain this? Am I missing something?

 

[tylerw02]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

The 6.5-284 doesn't use a "magnum" bolt head.

Most people don't touch it because it can't be bought at Wal-mart.

The .260 saw limited success when it came out because it took years for the market to recognize it as a tactical/competition cartridge. It was developed for hunting and did nothing the 7mm-08, .270, .280, .25-06, and .243 already did. Hopefully they will turn around. They now offer replacement barrels through their AAC division.

If you want a 700, just rebarrel one. You'll have a better rifle than a factory Remington or Savage.

 

[Hunt4life]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

Long wished they would make the SPS V or P in 260 but I am sure they would screw up the twist, so it would be back to replacing the barrel.

The .260 to me has got to the best new cartridge addition in past 30 or so years.

It is a perfect match round and perfect for 90 percent of hunting in the states.

 

[mhudson1970]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I totally agree Hunt. I can't wait till mine arrives. I can't think of a better all around caliber really. Low recoil, great ballistics, accurate. The whole package just seems right..

 

[JWV]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I do love my 260. To the OP, might as well just get a new savage in 260. Could probably get a new one for not much than the cost to chamber,fit,and blueprint a Rem 700. But it would be great in if Remington released an SPS in 260 with an 8 twist.

 

[mhudson1970]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

Ya Tyler, I've heard it was slow to take off. Hopefully it turns around like you said. Seems like the 6.5's are still one of those "Best kept secrets" in hunting... Well, to me anyway..

 

[tylerw02]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I've hunted with a .260, 6.5-284, a .280 AI, .308, .30-30, .44 Rem Mag and .35 Whelen.

The quickest, cleanest kills were with the 6.5s and the .280 AI. A friend of mine has had great success with 6.5x55 SE, too.

I really don't think there's much merit in debating the differences between most of the 6.5s vs 7mm vs .270. Just pick one of the SA ones if you want SA or a LA if you want a LA and go. I've seen lots of deer die from any of them.

But for the competition shooting, there's definitely advantages to the short-action 6.5s. I shoot a 6.5x47Lapua and love it. I've also got a .260 in progress.

 

[Hunt4life]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I think what hurt the .260 was it was released in the Magnum Era of the mid 90s. Now that folks are learning that a 150 pound deer does not need to be shot with a SuperUltraMegaShortTallFatMaybeBelt Magnum, wisdom finally prevails.

 

[CanSniper]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

Remington unfortuntatly seems to be behind the times and not really concerned with the trends. Savage however seems to have a close eye on the tactical marksman market.

 

[Burleyboy]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I had a factory 700 VLS in 260 for years. It shot well but it preferred 140 matchkings due to mag constraints and being a 9 twist.

Bb

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I've got an early 700 Mountain LSS chambered in 260. Gun is a hammer with 120gr Nosler BTs and kills whitetail just as dead as any 7mm or 30cal offering.

A 20" 700 AAC-SD and 26" SPS Varmint with 1:8 260 barrels would be big sellers IMO...

 

[tylerw02]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I'm jealous of your Mountain LSS. I had a nice Model Seven I'd bought for the ole lady to use, but she didn't like hunting much in the end. I much preferred the 700s to the Seven, so I sold it. I'd like to build a nice sporter similar to your LSS someday.


Hopefully with Federal making .260 match ammunition, it will open Remington's eyes.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

If Remington saw loaded 260 hunting ammo flying off the shelf they would reintroduce the 260, Remington knows that there 260 brass is flying off the shelfs but they also know its for custom weapons, it's simply not a money maker for them.

 

[RugerSlinger]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hunt4life</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think what hurt the .260 was it was released in the Magnum Era of the mid 90s. Now that folks are learning that a 150 pound deer does not need to be shot with a SuperUltraMegaShortTallFatMaybeBelt Magnum, wisdom finally prevails.</div></div>

I think this quote is Sig worthy.

I do love my 260s also. I have 2 and I am already collecting more parts for my next 6.5 SuperUltraMegaShortTallFatMaybeBelt Magnum (6.5/243 WSSM) <--- Because I Can.

 

[mhudson1970]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Remington saw loaded 260 hunting ammo flying off the shelf they would reintroduce the 260, Remington knows that there 260 brass is flying off the shelfs but they also know its for custom weapons, it's simply not a money maker for them. </div></div>

I agree with you, but they don't even offer the option in there 700's at all. I would think if they atleast offered their own caliber in there rifles, they would see sales. Their SPS models would be great in 260.. So would there BDL, and CDL's for the common hunters looking for great performing rounds with less recoil. They offer the 25-06 and 270's, why not offer a 260? Atleast have the option there. I understand that it didn't really take off well when it was released in the 90's, but the 260, as well as the 6.5CM and 6.5-284 have been gaining allot of interest in recent years, unlike the Winchester wssm's that were nothing but a flash in the pan.

 

[Swift]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

264WSM sounds awesome

 

[mhudson1970]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

Ya.. It would be sick for sure.

 

[wchartz]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I started studying ballistics tables about a year ago for a new rifle build. My criteria was; short action, less drop than a .308 175gr., decent barrel life, enough energy at 1200 yds to see a hit on steel. At the time I did not shoot tactical. Now that I have had my Beanland 260 I could not be more pleased with the cartridge or the rifle. Only after I ordered the gun and tried to find dies and brass did I discover that I was not alone in my thinking. I also have a 243 and a 308 that I have used for informal tactical matches. I think the 260 is the better choice although the 243 is not bad.

 

[steve123]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

The general public doesn't understand about ballistic coefficient or much of anything else that has to do with shooting a rifle. All they want is to get the hunting rifle out once a year and take their 50Y-200Y shot.

I have a friend that was using the same box of ammo he bought 3 years ago, LOL. Heck most of the hunting public doesn't even know how to zero a rifle. Just yesterday I went out to the local rifle range and some guy was afraid to adjust his scope. After firing half a dozen rounds he was ecstatic that he just barely nicked my 19" steel high/left once at 400Y. He didn't want to shoot any more because the ammo was $2.00 each.

That being said if Remington would make a small run of 260/8 twist or even 6.5 Creed in their heavy barreled line of 700's they'd sell them all.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

If they do make a 700 in 260 they will probably put a triangular barrel on it.


OFG

 

[captrichardson]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

Food for thought, playing "Devils Advocate",

You want a .260 rifle, so what do you do?

Per above, most people will buy a Rem 700 in .308 and have it re-barreled.

That means Remington still sells a rifle, and they can crank up their .308 production runs.

Some might argue that Remington is losing sales to other manufacturers or to a custom build because some people obviously don’t want to go that route. But Remington really doesn't see the numbers lost as significant, especially when compared to their sales to the primary hunting market.

So what really is their motivation to build a .260?

Personally, I think that they have completely dropped the ball, and if they got their act together in terms of really marketing and supporting the .260, that they would see some significant numbers.

Unfortunately, this is not the first time they have done this, look at the history of the 6.8 SPC. If it was not for independent manufacturers supporting it, Remington’s complete lack of support during its initial introduction would have killed it off.

Sad to say, IMHO, Remington pretty much has their head up their forth point of contact when it comes to competitive shooting. Look at what companies like FNH are doing with 3-Gun, and what Savage is doing with F-Class.

We can hope they will get it together at some point, but unless there is a major change way up the chain of command, don't see it happening.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson

 

[mhudson1970]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

You're right Capt. Sadly, I couldn't agree with ya more. They have a really good caliber, and they're letting the competion profit from it. Very poor marketing.

I guess some can say just by a rifle and rebarrel it, but if I want a 260, I should be able to atleast buy a BDL/CDL, ready to hunt with, I mean, it is a Remington caliber after all.

Thats why I went with the Savage. They offer some real accurate rifles at good prices, in a wide range of calibers. I'm getting an LRP, ready to shoot. No rebarreling, just putting my glass on it, my bipod, and I'm ready to play at the range or the woods.

There marketing stategies far exceed Remington's in my opinion, as said earlier, offering F-Class/Target rifles and the like. Remington has their 40X I guess, but they sure don't push the 260 at all. They've got a gem in their hands, but don't seem to care.

 

[VKC]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I couldn't agree more, 6.5s are great. I have a 6.5cm custom and it shoots great. I even shot it better than a friend who had a 338LM at 1000 yards one day. I couldn't help thinking of the ammo cost difference.

However, it seems like the companies making semiautos have caught on a little as a few of them are offering 260rem and 6.5cm AR10s.

 

[10generation]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I've heard that when Remington first came out with the .260 they had the twist rate wrong and they did not shoot well. Cartridge got a bad rap, Remington wasn't selling rifles, and they cut them back.

Anyone hear something similar?

 

[teerex]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I would have bought a .260 700 if they would have had something in the sps line and then started working on it from there.

I didn't feel like buying a .308 and pulling the barrel right away, so I decided to have one built on a custom action. They did not get any of my money out of that deal. I may be a rare case, but I think a lot of people getting into precision shooting stick with what they can get off the shelf when they are new to it. If Remington sold a 260 with a decent barrel profile, and 1:8 twist I believe they would sell enough to make it worth while.

There is obviously some overlap between the hunters and precision shooters, and there is only room for .260 to grow as far as hunting goes even if it is slowly.

 

[majohnson2]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

I had never even heard of the 6.5, until someone on another forum recommended it, I'm a sworn believer now. From a manufactures stand point, the costs to bring a new item to market is substantial. Looking at the economic down turn over the last few years, Remington's market cap, might not have permitted the expansion.

In the hunting market, how many people feel the only gun you ever need is a 30-06?

 

[leadbullet]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hunt4life</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think what hurt the .260 was it was released in the Magnum Era of the mid 90s. Now that folks are learning that a 150 pound deer does not need to be shot with a SuperUltraMegaShortTallFatMaybeBelt Magnum, wisdom finally prevails. </div></div>

excellent point, the wrong twist didn't help either

 

[aur0ra145]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A 20" 700 AAC-SD and 26" SPS Varmint with 1:8 260 barrels would be big sellers IMO... </div></div>

Stop. No. and Don't. My wallet can't take the abuse anymore!

 

[dmpowder]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hunt4life</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The .260 to me has got to the best new cartridge addition in past 30 or so years.

It is a perfect match round and perfect for 90 percent of hunting in the states. </div></div>

I tend to disagree! You need to read up on the 6.5 Creedmoor!

Also another reason I prefer Savage over Remmy's is because Savage actually listens to their customers and builds rifle that people want to buy!

 

[mhudson1970]

Re: 6.5 Rant...

Things I've read have said that the ballistics are close enough between the 6.5CM and the 260, that if you have one, there's no need to get the other...They're both great rounds. I'm a huge fan of the 6.5mm round no matter what casing is pushing it down my barrel.. The main reasons I went with the 260 are for one, the 264 mag had/has a history of being a barrel burner, & two, (where I live) I can pick up 260's in the local Gander Mountain if I'm ever in a pinch for ammo. I don't remember ever seeing the 6.5CM in stock there...

And I totally agree with ya on Savage building the guns that customers want..