6.5 Staball disappointing

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I've been trying to find the best powder for heavies in a 6.5 creedmoor and 6 creedmoor. I've been experimenting with 6.5 staball and it's a huge disappointment..
Both rifles are getting huge ES and shitty groups, the stuff burns super dirty too.

Has anyone else had similar results with this powder?
I'm contemplating H4831sc for 147s in the 6.5, and 115s in the 6.
What are people having the best luck with?
RL16 has been great in my 6 creed but it's going for like $60+/lb if you can even find it..

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I had good results with 6cm, not as much with 6.5cm though because of the SD. 6cm is very good though in lapua brass and cci 450. That's with 108/109 Berger. It is dirty though

 

[GIXXER2000]

Tried 6.5 staball and got the same results you did. I was shooting 147-M and 144 Hy's. I only tried because I got it on sale. I went back to H-4350 and it shot much better.

 

[stello1001]

Everybody knows it's reloader 16 if you want insane speed in the creedmoor

 

[Bobby Ball]

Had similar disappointing results with the HD

 

[Mr. F]

Its no H4350.

Super dirty and ive never been able to get low single digit SDs (not that it matters that much for my application) but usually get 10-15SDs

Ive had good results with it on 6.5s with 140 eldms seated long .070 - .1

And 108 eldm and 110 smks on the 6cm also long.

Accuracy is ok in my limited testing.5-.6 avg over 5 round groups (whatever thats worth)

Run it almost exclusively on the local 1 day matches to avoid burning h4350. Overall when ever i can find it in the 250-260 range per jug i get it. Its good for practice matches,shooting with friends, ect…

wouldn’t take it on a longer trip

 

[rustyinbend]

I get single-digit SD's and solid performance at distance with StaBall 6.5 in my 6.5CM Tikka. That said, it is a bit dirty and requires a cleaning more frequently than other powders.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Superformance. with the 6.5 always gave really good results, good velocities, good SD’s and great accuracy. No, it’s not a super all temp powder but shooting in every condition I have experienced, velocity and accuracy never seemed to waver enough cause problems. (considering how well it shot in both of my CM’s with multiple bullets. And in my limited tests, it always topped h4350 in velocity, SD’s and accuracy.

 

[FredHammer]

Sucked in 243, 243AI, 708, 708AI. I thought maybe it works best in a 6.5 for some stupid reason that defies my known knowledge of rifle powder burn rate & performance to date. Now I think I'll pour it out, strip the label and get use of the bottle for a good powder.

 

[drglock]

Buddy loaded some up in his .243AI and only shot 5 over my Garmin. Must say it sucked.

 

[FredHammer]

Buddy loaded some up in his .243AI and only shot 5 over my Garmin. Must say it sucked.
View attachment 8322724

It pressures out at lower velocities than H100V, RL17, W760 too.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Superformance. with the 6.5 always gave really good results, good velocities, good SD’s and great accuracy. No, it’s not a super all temp powder but shooting in every condition I have experienced, velocity and accuracy never seemed to waver enough cause problems. (considering how well it shot in both of my CM’s with multiple bullets. And in my limited tests, it always topped h4350 in velocity, SD’s and accuracy.

Interesting
I've never really considered trying Superformance due to temp sensitivity.

I found some 8lbers of H4350 that I'm thinking about trying out, really I want a powder with the best chances of working in the 6 with 112- 115s and the 6.5 with 147s

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Buddy loaded some up in his .243AI and only shot 5 over my Garmin. Must say it sucked.
View attachment 8322724

Damn that's even worse than my ES of 60 in the the 6.5!

 

[cas6969]

I would say the best thing about 6.5 Sta. is it's been available! To the point that I've been using it in more and more things, again because I could get it.

I can't really complain about how it shoots, not bad, not amazing me. But it does leave a column of soot in the bottom of the barrel like nothing I've ever seen.

Recently found that in the 270 it really preferred Magnum primers, much more consistent. Not even a chrono thing, but just in sound and feel (and the results on paper). When I was using standard primers, every now and then I'd catch something.. "that felt slightly different". Like the hint of a delay. Yeah it's a ball powder, but load wise it's not up where you'd normal think MP's would be called for.

I haven't touched my 6.5CM in a year so I can't remember now, I think I played with Mag primers to see if it would shoot cleaner, but honestly I don't remember.

 

[FredHammer]

I would say the best thing about 6.5 Sta. is it's been available! To the point that I've been using it in more and more things, again because I could get it.

I can't really complain about how it shoots, not bad, not amazing me. But it does leave a column of soot in the bottom of the barrel like nothing I've ever seen.

Well, this thread is evidence on why it's available!

 

[cas6969]

It's been available pretty steadily since it first came out, bad reports will keep it that way.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Interesting
I've never really considered trying Superformance due to temp sensitivity.

I found some 8lbers of H4350 that I'm thinking about trying out, really I want a powder with the best chances of working in the 6 with 112- 115s and the 6.5 with 147s

Then get H4350. It will work with both very well

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Buddy loaded some up in his .243AI and only shot 5 over my Garmin. Must say it sucked.
View attachment 8322724

I got an SD of like 9 I think it was over 20 or 30 rounds in 6cm with it. Couldn't do that with the 6.5cm though so I went back to H4350 for that. One string of 10 shots was like 3sd. I guess it just depends on your brass, brass prep, chamber, ect.....

 

[MarkyMark007]

6.5 staball and it's a huge disappointment..
Both rifles are getting huge ES and shitty groups, the stuff burns super dirty too.

basics of reloading: powder types etc...

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Well I got lucky at the LGS today so no more staball for me
Momma gonna be pissed..

 

[Sardious]

I agree. I bought this when it was the only thing around (2020) and I now hate it.
6.5 Staball is disappointing and no where near as good as H4350 (a relabed ADI powder that is) in the 6.5 CM.
I did work a load up with 45 grain of 6.5 Staball with a 139 Lapua and it did shoot well.... until the bolt locked up in a match after 15 record shots.
Carbon galore - It took 2 broze chamber bore brushes, wrapped in cotton, and a lot of Iosso carbon remover cleaner.
The bore was a coal mine....

 

[Sardious]

PS - Hunting buddy came up with the same conclusion, very dirty and so-so.
Tikka Coyote load: 120 grain OTM Privi Partisan tips with 45.3 grn of 6.5 Staball, 1.740 OAL.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I agree. I bought this when it was the only thing around (2020) and I now hate it.
6.5 Staball is disappointing and no where near as good as H4350 (a relabed ADI powder that is) in the 6.5 CM.
I did work a load up with 45 grain of 6.5 Staball with a 139 Lapua and it did shoot well.... until the bolt locked up in a match after 15 record shots.
Carbon galore - It took 2 broze chamber bore brushes, wrapped in cotton, and a lot of Iosso carbon remover cleaner.
The bore was a coal mine....

That's a very hot load. Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought I was at like 43 and mine was pretty hot

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

That's a very hot load. Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought I was at like 43 and mine was pretty hot

Hornady data shows 43.8 with a 153 Gay tip so there's no way he's running hot with a 139

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Hornady data shows 43.8 with a 153 Gay tip so there's no way he's running hot with a 139

Maybe I just am mixing it up then. It's been a while since I've loaded it

 

[Sardious]

That's a very hot load. Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought I was at like 43 and mine was pretty hot

Yes, yes, it is a "hot load" according to the published loads.
I did work up to this load (incrementally) and was also using SRP Lapua brass with a good amount of jump.
I didn't see pressure signs but don't recommend the load as this powder is not worth anyones time.

P.S. I've been using the free site www.P-Max.uk to find pressure walls.

 

[CK1.0]

I've shot a bunch of it in 6CM (like ~24+ lbs), mostly with 112MBs or DTAC115s, and while I wouldn't call it an "easy button" powder (like with something like Varget), it'll work as long as one has the rest of their reloading process fully squared away.

I averaged SDs in the 7-9 range once I cleaned up all the other aspects of my reloading process (I shoot either Lapua or Alpha brass all from the same lots, anneal every firing on an AMP, every powder drop to the nearest kernel/flake, etc). I shoot with a few guys who can make good ammo when using H4350, RL16, Varget... honestly, with those powders anyone can... but their processes weren't dialed in enough to get single-digit SDs with Sta-Ball 6.5.

IME with it, case-fill seems to be pretty important... I'd recommend staying in at least the 80% full case-fill neighborhood. IME the higher the case-fill, the better/easier it gets.

It is kind of dirty... but, on the other hand... it also doesn't seem to eat away throats like the usual suspects do (H4350, Varget, etc) and it's easy to clean. I've had 2 6CM barrels that were fed Sta-Ball 6.5 exclusively for their lifetimes that were still shooting with nearly 3000rds on them when I pulled them (which is nuts since most 6CM barrels are toast by ~1500rds with H4350, RL16, etc).

 

[M4orturnate]

Had better success in 6br with heavies then with 6.5cm. it got me 2900fps with 109s and no pressure

 

[towerofpower93]

I'm liking it for 6.5C in an AR10. Using virgin full length resized Staline SRP brass I can load it on my Dillon XL650 since it meters within a tenth of a grain from the Dillon PM. I'll probably try it in 6.5x47L when I need to load some more up in order to save the H4350 for cartridges/rifles that don't like the StaBall6.5.

Here are two 20rd strings I collected on a LabRadar in November at a local belly flop match. The match has a shooting rotation in it, so you fire two rounds at a target and then wait 30-90sec before shooting at the next target. I loaded up a 20rd mag and went to work, so rounds 3, 5, 7, etc would soak in the chamber for a bit before it was my turn to fire two more rounds.

22” 6.5C AR-10 suppressed w/ SDN-6/R7
130gr Berger AR Hybrid
Rem 7.5 SR primer
Virgin Starline brass FLR’d
StaBall 6.5 45.6gr
OAL 2.750”

20rd group

Lo: 2820
Hi: 2879
Avg: 2853
ES: 59
SD: 14.2

20rd group

Lo: 2833
Hi: 2888
Avg: 2865
ES: 55
SD: 18.8

 

[DubfromGA]

I've got 8lbs of the Staball6.5 stuff.

I'll try it in .270 Win first.

Fingers crossed that I'll hit on 130gr or 140gr load that my rifles shoots well.

 

[chevy_man]

Have to use a hot primer. Winchester large rifle or a magnum CCI or Federal gave me good results. I'd guess those of you with problems are using SRP brass?

43 grn under a 147 eldm gave me an SD of 8 and ES of 20. 2700fps, which was where I was at with 41.5grn of H4350.


I didn't have any extra fouling. Still only cleaned every few hundred rounds with a factory Bergara.


It worked good enough and flows nicely though the Redding thrower. Good enough I bought 14 lbs to burn up the next barrel.

 

[45-90]

6.5 Staball is an excellent powder ...for other applications.
H4350 is a standard accuracy powder for standard velocities.
Superformance is faster, but is accuracy up to your standards.

RL 26 is the speed demon.

Hybrid cases if ya want magnum velocities 140 gr into 3150 fps range with a 24" barrel and a bolt gun.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

Hybrid cases Shoot a magnum if ya want magnum velocities

FTFY.

 

[45-90]

FTFY.

The government doesn't...the military uses hybrid cases...80,000 psi even in full auto machinguns. Smaller package magnum performance, for defeating body armor.
The civilian version, a semi auto was available to the public, but it's expensive, comes complete with suppressor.

 

[cas6969]

They have a slightly bigger budget than I do. Even with, not crazy about the idea.

Been looking over some old groups from my 6.5 Creemooooo with 6.5StaB and they were better than I remembered.
Now that I have a Gamin and don't have to deal with my chrono blowing over every few shots, I look forward to getting some longer strings through it and get some numbers.

 

[st1650]

It’s actually very clean and low SDs in my 7SAW.

For 6.5 Creed nothing beats H4350 for the 130-147s. Gets me 2800 FPS 147 ELD-M with 41.5gr out of a 26in tube, no pressure. H4831sc is also doing good at 2850 FPS but I keep it for 7 SAUM.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

It seems that the 6.5staball works best with a lot of case fill (and at higher pressure) and shooting the 108gr - maybe 130gr bullets for many. In my 6cm it did pretty good for SD and accuracy. It did well for accuracy in 6.5cm but the SD was not ever as good as h4350, that's with a 130gr Berger.

 

[cas6969]

Finally got some 6.5CM/6.5Stball rounds down range with the Garmin. I screwed up, because I was rotating rifles, I kept turning the Garmin off to not get shots from the other one, but kept forgetting to turn it back on, so I only got one string of H4350/140 loads.

But the two 10 round strings with 6.5Staball (w/ Mag primer) and 140gr surprised me.

First one was:
2730 Ave
33.7 ES
10.4 SD
Two outliers, both mid string at -19 and -20 below ave opened the numbers up.

Next string with a slightly shorter OAL was:
2704 Ave
26.4 ES
8.2 SD

This was 5 shots, a few minute pause and 5 more. Both times the first shot was the outlier, -11.1 and -10.2 respectively.

 

[misser]

Works for me in 708

 

[45-90]

Haven't tried 6.5 Staball in 6.5 CM. RL26, H4350 mostly, and Superformance, also.
But it 6.5 Staball works great in 308 Win 208gr to 230 gr bullets.
And in the 6 Dasher where 110 SMK are going 3085 fps...with good accuracy....but not the acccuracy of Varget and RL 15 with 108 Berger...but it's smokin fast with heavy 6mm bullets in the 6 Dasher.

 

[chevy_man]

One thing about ball powders is getting them into their happy place for pressure.

Using SRP brass in the 25 Creed, 43.7grn of 6.5 sta-ball ignited with a CCI 450.

This was a seating test. Definitely see the pressure and velocity change in relation to the depth. The std of 3.8 was an es of 10.2 so I'm using that for now.

 

[xsn10s]

My ES isn't great with a lot in the 20 fps plus area. I'm wondering if more neck tension might help to low the ES. A Lee Factory Crimp die might help. Unfortunately they don't make the one I need... a 260 AI.

 

[cas6969]

That's what I'm struggling with in my 6.5CM, inconsistent neck tension. If I had one load I was shooting, and wanted to keep things more consistent, I could ballpark group them by how they felt while seating the bullet. But since the rifles only real purpose is constant load testing/trying, that doesn't work.

 

[CNC-Dude]

I get single digit numbers with 140g-147g anything using Superformance. It doesn't seem to be very temp sensitive, I've shot competitions from the high 20 degrees to mid 90's and it remains consistent throughout....

 

[Baron85]

I bought 6.5 Staball during the heat of the powder shortage. It has worked plenty good for my dasher running 112mb. It is dirtier than my normal n150 but was also faster. Accuracy was slightly less hovering around 1/2 moa and sd/es was higher but still worked plenty good for the matches I shoot. I doubt I missed anything due to the powder choice.

With that said, now that I have found N150 I stocked up but would have no hesitation running 6.5 staball in the future if that’s what I can find at the time.

 

[918v]

Staball works just fine with LRP.

 

[Gentleman4561]

Staball 6.5
6.5CM
140ELDM
CCI #450
Federal brass
43.5 grains dropped from a Dillon powder measure

10 shot group measured .8

I did not do load development, just set OAL to 2.8 and loaded in .3 grain increments till I got pressure signs then backed off a bit.

 

[CK1.0]

Staball 6.5
6.5CM
140ELDM
CCI #450
Federal brass
43.5 grains dropped from a Dillon powder measure

10 shot group measured .8

I did not do load development, just set OAL to 2.8 and loaded in .3 grain increments till I got pressure signs then backed off a bit.

Dang, that's pretty spicy for a 6.5 140, no..? Don't forget about sun/dust/rain, and Federal brass is suspect, bubba wouldn't wanna get blowed up lol.

I'm running my 6mm slower than that (so I can see impacts/splash inside 600 yards easier, 6GT at ~2800fps @ 80degF).

I was thinking of getting a 6.5CM barrel to run heavier projectiles to see even more... but was thinking more like ~2650ish, maybe 2700fps!

 

[45-90]

6.5 Staball is a good 308 powder with heavy loads...and long barrels. I run 230 gr Atips at 2620 fps in 308 Win, 8 twist.
6 mm Dasher 110 gr at 3085 fps, or 107s at 3132 fps.
The 6 Dasher is an excellent accuracy cartridge for tiny groups and holds a bunch of 1000yd records.
I do not use 6.5 Staball in the 6.5 CM.
Hybrid cases and RL 26 will get 3150 with 140 gr in the 6.5 CM.
But a standard load of 41.7 gr of H4350 works well in most 6.5 CMs, around 2700 to 2750 fps, with 24" barrels, very it slightly, for individual barrels.

 

[R_A_W]

Using SRP brass in the 25 Creed, 43.7grn of 6.5 sta-ball ignited with a CCI 450.

Dang… what barrel length? Unfamiliar w/ 25cm, but that seems slow?

Dang, that's pretty spicy for a 6.5 140, no..?

I didn’t get pressure signs w/ 142smk & H4350 in Lapua SRP out of my last 28in barrel until >2900. It was a faster barrel though. Backed way down to 2820 anyways…

Naturally I ordered 8lb of 6.5 StaBall before reading this thread… not a fan of dirty powders. Oh well, may just shelve it for back up