6.5PRC, Lone Peak Fuzion, KMW Sentinel, and TS Customs

[Rockfish Dave]

And your contribution was nothing more than an inflammatory statement that had zero to do with the topic of this thread and someone called you out on it.

Now you're just running out of excuses and it's pissing you off. Try and let some of the air out before your head explodes.

The only thing I'm running out of is ways to say the same thing in a different way.

My contribution is putting the time and money to develop something. If it is so simple and easy where are your contributions nick? All I see from you are statements repeating things you have "heard", or flat out making false statements.

I pointed out it can and has been done in a much smaller case utilizing a standard bolt face and that drove you into a fit. I am not sure what your issues are, but clearly you have them.

Looking forward to your results with the 150gr SMK in your short action mag fed rifle! BTW: What will the spec's be on your rifle?

 

[orkan]

My involvement was limited to wanting the thread to STAY ON TOPIC. Instead, you had to destroy yet another thread. The rest of what you're claiming I said, has no basis in reality.

 

[nick338]

The only thing I'm running out of is ways to say the same thing in a different way. You are clearly too slow to catch on.

My conribution is putting the time and money to develop something. If it is so simple and easy where are your contributions nick? All I see from you are bs statements repeating things you have "heard", or flat out making false statements.

I pointed out it can and has been done in a much smaller case utilizing a standard bolt face and that drove you into a fit. I am not sure what your mental issues are, but clearly you have them.

Ignorant people that make false statements irritate me, so yes nick, you are an irritant.

Looking forward to your results with the 150gr SMK in your short action mag fed rifle! After all this talk, would hate for it to be one more example of your imagination. BTW: What will the spec's be on your rifle?

Ok Dave so clearly the contribution to this thread which was nothing is what has a few of us who are actually excited about this cartridge irritated. What upset me is the fact that you dismissed this cartridge without knowing anything about it. I have made only one incorrect statement and that was about your shoulder which I admitted was premature and wrong because I assumed it being "improved" it had a 40 degree shoulder. Aside from that I have presented all facts that other shooters have experienced with this cartridge which you have chosen to disregard to push your own agenda.

Lets try this a different way. What exactly do you expect to happen when I load the 150 sierra to magazine length? Being that I have to seat it .030 further into the case then the 147 eld to make it magazine length I'm curious to hear what your predicted result will be.

And if I'm not happy with the results I already told you JLK has a new 147 with a .700 bc that is the same length as the 147 eld, and we all know that people are getting over 3000 fps with it on a 24" barrel.

The rifle is a J Allen stock, Bartlein 27" 1-7 twist and Tempest action with Alpha mags to accept 2.960". Brake and optic are to be determined.

 

[Rockfish Dave]

Looking forward to your results.

 

[lte82]

My conribution is putting the time and money to develop something.

How much speed do you gain with your cartridge vs a standard 260 rem? How much speed does it lose to a 260 AI?

 

[nick338]

Looking forward to your results.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[cudby]

This tread is on of the best things in my life right now.

can I just add this picture because I think it pictures the situation at hand from a reasonable point of view.

 

[Rockfish Dave]

[Snip] a few of us who are actually excited about this cartridge irritated. What upset me is the fact that you dismissed this cartridge without knowing anything about it.

This sums up every comment you've made on this thread quite well. All emotion.

Clearly I upset you and I apologize.

 

[nick338]

This sums up every comment you've made on this thread quite well. All emotion.

Clearly I upset you and I appologize, I had no idea how sensitive you are.

There all better?

Another useless post. Why is it when someone asks you a relevant question you skirt the answer and only waste everybody's time by resorting to your usual callous comments?

 

[cudby]

Can you all answer me this for PRS / LR shooting;

I have ordered the 6.5 PRC barrel in 1:8 for my rifle and have approx. 3,6" room in AIAW Mags. I am thinking of shooting the shooting either:

1. The new Sierra Matchking, SM, in 6.5 150 grs bullets (which are 1,5") but the stability factor is only at 1,45 (not 1,5). Bryan Litz states that any 0,1 under 1,5 would result in a 3% reduced BC G7 (G1 => 0.713 * 0.512 = G7 => 0,365. Reduced by 3% = 0,354.... if only reduced by 1,5% because the stability factor is 1,45 and not 1,4... then G7 = 0,3595)

2. Hornady 147 grs ELD Match has a BC G7 0,354 which have 1,5 in stability factor

Would it in your opinion make more sense to use 147 grs Hornady ELD Match or go with the 150 grs Sierra MK?

 

[nick338]

Can you all answer me this for PRS / LR shooting;

I have ordered the 6.5 PRC barrel in 1:8 for my rifle and have approx. 3,6" room in AIAW Mags. I am thinking of shooting the shooting either:

1. The new Sierra Matchking, SM, in 6.5 150 grs bullets (which are 1,5") but the stability factor is only at 1,45 (not 1,5). Bryan Litz states that any 0,1 under 1,5 would result in a 3% reduced BC G7 (G1 => 0.713 * 0.512 = G7 => 0,365. Reduced by 3% = 0,354.... if only reduced by 1,5% because the stability factor is 1,45 and not 1,4... then G7 = 0,3595)

2. Hornady 147 grs ELD Match has a BC G7 0,354 which have 1,5 in stability factor

Would it in your opinion make more sense to use 147 grs Hornady ELD Match or go with the 150 grs Sierra MK?

A couple questions. What elevation will you do most of your shooting at?

If you ordered your barrel a month ago, I get it, but if you just ordered it why the 1-8? With the new heavies coming out a 1-7.5 would be much better and you could still shoot the 140 class as well.

You really can't predict anything until you start testing bullets. Don't limit yourself and try both of them. Berger also has a 155 gr coming out and JLK has some good stuff soon as well. And who knows, Hornady may even come out with a heavier bullet if the demand is there so a faster twist would serve you better.

 

[nick338]

150 gr sierra matchking

Originally posted by Seandradamus View Post
I was able to run some of these Today in my 8twist 26" saum
using Retumbo in Rem Brass.
ran a ladder @ 400 and kept them in about 1.5"
maxed out at around 62 grains and 3135
nice flat node around 61 grains at 3100
ill report back when I have a chance to shoot them at distance
to see if I'm loosing BC from the 8 twist.

What is your c.o.a.l if you don't mind me asking?

I was at 2.940 and that is 25 off the lands . I have the .081 freebore


Well this would certainly seem like it defies the the laws of physics in some people's world.

 

[Rhyno]

So does Rockfish Dave have any personal experience with the 6.5 PRC? It sounds like he does not, yet he’s been bitching about that to other people.

 

[Kubitza123]

I just want to be the guy who changes the shoulder on a pre existing cartridge and convinces everyone a 100fps
more will make them a better sniper. Mostly so I can sell them more dies, brass , etc. I still can't believe how many guys keep chasing calibers hoping for a 6mm or 6.5 that will shoot over 3000fps and have a barrel life of
2500rds+.

Not picking on this caliber in general , just figured I'd rant since this threads full of it lol.

 

[steve123]

Can you all answer me this for PRS / LR shooting;

I have ordered the 6.5 PRC barrel in 1:8 for my rifle and have approx. 3,6" room in AIAW Mags. I am thinking of shooting the shooting either:

1. The new Sierra Matchking, SM, in 6.5 150 grs bullets (which are 1,5") but the stability factor is only at 1,45 (not 1,5). Bryan Litz states that any 0,1 under 1,5 would result in a 3% reduced BC G7 (G1 => 0.713 * 0.512 = G7 => 0,365. Reduced by 3% = 0,354.... if only reduced by 1,5% because the stability factor is 1,45 and not 1,4... then G7 = 0,3595)

2. Hornady 147 grs ELD Match has a BC G7 0,354 which have 1,5 in stability factor

Would it in your opinion make more sense to use 147 grs Hornady ELD Match or go with the 150 grs Sierra MK?

Since you are ordering anyway, and want to try the long bullets, why not order a tighter twist??? The next barrel for my 6.5 Saum will be a 7.25 twist.

Just for reference, my 6.5Saum which has a longer freebore, gets 3175 fps with 140 hybrid in a 29" barrel and it's the low node. The high node was 3275 fps without primer flow but slight ejector smear on some cases.

At this point I'll probably choose the 150SMK for the next barrel because I doubt Berger will point the meplat on the 155.

I haven't looked up the 6.5PRC blueprint but I'm wondering how fireforming in a 6.5-4s chamber would go??

 

[orkan]

So does Rockfish Dave have any personal experience with the 6.5 PRC? It sounds like he does not, yet he’s been bitching about that to other people.

Standard operating procedure for some on here. They'll attack EVERYTHING. The mere suggestion that they get some first hand experience sends them into a tirade. Same thing happens every time something new and cool shows up. Even the owner of this site can't talk about something new without idiots trying to shout down the scary new thing. Doesn't matter what it is.

It's a good thing that everyone knows these naysayers are an annoying and vocal yet tiny tiny minority of shooters. Most shooters enjoy options. ... and EVERYONE enjoys threads that stay on topic. Yet look what those types do when you suggest the thread stay on topic. The mere suggestion that they push their agenda elsewhere sends them into a tirade. He could have easily left this thread alone and started his own thread titled "6.5SLR Imp vs 6.5 PRC."

This same exact thing happened when the 6.5 creedmoor showed up. Everyone crawled out of the woodwork trying to shout it down, citing every cartridge from 6.5x47 to 260rem to 6.5 swede. It didn't stop the 6.5 Creedmoor from becoming THE most popular 6.5mm cartridge among precision shooters in just a few years time. The exact same thing will happen with the 6.5PRC. Within 3-4 years, anytime someone is thinking of a magnum 6.5, the 6.5PRC will be what is recommended... and many of the same people shouting it down now, will be seen promoting it.

It happened with 6.5CM. It happened with Really Right Stuff tripods. It happened with Tangent Theta. ... and it will happen with the 6.5PRC.

 

[Ledzep]

I think with Hornady backing it and making factory ammo, it probably will become the go-to short action 6.5 magnum. . I kind of wish it was the 6.5 4S because it seems there's a 50-100fps boost there that really puts it 150-200+fps above what you can achieve with most any non-magnum caliber. Plug-and-play is nice vs. having to form/size/turn cases, too, though.

At any rate, what I'm really hoping for out of this is some high-quality short action magnum brass. If Lapua or Alpha would make cases, I'd swap over from the 4s without looking back. Heavy bullet development as of late is really impressive, too. Gone from pushing the 0.6 mark to pushing the 0.7 mark in just a few years.

PS, someone had mentioned the Berger stability calculator-- I take that thing with a grain of salt. I have had some stability factors come out to as low as 1.2 with no perceptible BC drop vs. published numbers out to 1300-1400yd (magnetospeed MV, kestrel environmentals, JBM and Trasol).

 

[Rockfish Dave]

So does Rockfish Dave have any personal experience with the 6.5 PRC? It sounds like he does not, yet he’s been bitching about that to other people.

Looks like I missed allot.

Reread what I had posted, nothing to get in a bunch about. Simply pointing out my performance is with in 85 fps of what Greg is getting sends you into a tizzy.

If you are confident you are going to get 2,500 rounds down the pipe, then do it and post up. If you are confident you will get the 150 grain SMK's to run then do it. J I've posted up my results...

If every disagreement is a blow to your ego then it's time to grow up.

 

[Rhyno]

So, no.
The answer is no you do not have any experience with it.

Got it, I can throw out everything you said then, based on your own advice.

 

[nick338]

Looks like I missed allot. You all are like a bunch of hens.

Reread what I had posted, nothing to get your paties in a bunch about. Simply pointing out my performance is with in 85 fps of what Greg is getting sends you snowfakes into a tizzy.

If you are confident you are going to get 2,500 rounds down the pipe, then do it and post up. If you are confident you will get the 150 grain SMK's to run then do it. Just sitting around bitching makes you look like bitches. I've posred up my results...

If every disagreement is a blow to your fragile ego then it's time for you to grow the 'F' up.

What a bunch of pubescent girls you've turned out to be.

I will repeat myself again, it's pathetic. I don't expect any of you to agree, since there isn't a testicle to be found amongst the lot of you nutless wonders.

Absolutely patetic.

No one was bitching until you chimed in about what a cartridge you have zero experience with couldn't do. So you ran full steam to dismantle it based on one guy's load testing?

Ok we get it...you and several others don't like short mags. So go play somewhere else and stop talking out your ass. Guys are getting 2500 rds with the Gap 4s and they are already loading the 150 gr Sierra in it and the PRC is getting over 3000 fps with the 147 eld.

I wanted more performance than I was getting with my 6.5 lapua at 2735 with a 147 gr without going to a long action and building another rifle. The PRC with give me another 300 fps and I'm only changing the barrel and bolt. Nothing else that doesn't end in short mag will do that and I'm sorry if that bothers you.

 

[orkan]

Looks like I missed allot. You all are like a bunch of hens.

Reread what I had posted, nothing to get your paties in a bunch about. Simply pointing out my performance is with in 85 fps of what Greg is getting sends you snowfakes into a tizzy.

If you are confident you are going to get 2,500 rounds down the pipe, then do it and post up. If you are confident you will get the 150 grain SMK's to run then do it. Just sitting around bitching makes you look like bitches. I've posred up my results...

If every disagreement is a blow to your fragile ego then it's time for you to grow the 'F' up.

What a bunch of pubescent girls you've turned out to be.

I will repeat myself again, it's pathetic. I don't expect any of you to agree, since there isn't a testicle to be found amongst the lot of you nutless wonders.

Absolutely patetic.

This surprises you? You have zero experience with the cartridge this thread is about... and yet you think anything you have to say about it should be taken seriously? Everyone calls you out on it and you just start calling everyone names. Pretty sure that expecting someone to actually have used a thing before claiming to know all about that thing isn't an unreasonable request. ... or are you just SO fucking smart that you don't need any experience before you know everything there is to know about something?

... and you say WE are the ones with an ego problem? I think not. At least I know not to be commenting about things I've never used.

I'm pretty sure every single intelligent person the world over thinks people talking about things they've never done, is by definition, a fucking moron.

 

[SuperSneakySniper]

Well I don't reload, so the PRC interests me

As would a standardized factory 6.5 SAUM. Basically I'd just really like to get some use out of my magnum bolt face :/

 

[Rockfish Dave]

This surprises you? You have zero experience with the cartridge this thread is about... and yet you think anything you have to say about it should be taken seriously? Everyone calls you out on it and you just start calling everyone names. Pretty sure that expecting someone to actually have used a thing before claiming to know all about that thing isn't an unreasonable request. ... or are you just SO fucking smart that you don't need any experience before you know everything there is to know about something?

... and you say WE are the ones with an ego problem? I think not. At least I know not to be commenting about things I've never used.

I'm pretty sure every single intelligent person the world over thinks people talking about things they've never done, is by definition, a fucking moron.

I've made it clear I was responding to your data / info.

I'm not name calling. Reread what I've posted.

 

[orkan]

Are you retarded? I've made it clear I was responding to your data / info.

I'm not name calling, I really think you are mentally slow. Reread what i've posted.

You don't even know what YOU wrote!?!??!?! No, I'm not retarded... but clearly you are. Your last post was full of name calling, just up the page. Whiny crying post full of name calling and nothing else. You are either intentionally trolling, or off your meds.

Someone who is mentally slow, claiming others are mentally slow.
Someone with a fragile ego, claiming others have fragile ego's.
Someone that's retarded, claiming others are retarded.
A nutless wonder, claiming others are nutless wonders.

I'd not waste one more second on your ass. You're dismissed.

 

[orkan]

Since that's all handled, back to the data.

We did a 30" barrel in a Desert Tech for a customer recently. 59gr of H1000 with a 140 hybrid = 3127fps. Though that barrel is new.

The original rifle this thread was started on is now broke in and has sped up as anticipated. It has around 350rnds on it now and 59gr of H1000 in that rifle with 140 hybrids is now producing 3138fps. I would expect the 30" barrel to speed up in a similar fashion after it's broke in. It's been my experience across dozens of benchmark barrels that they speed up around 100fps.

 

[B-P-UU]

Since that's all handled, back to the data.

We did a 30" barrel in a Desert Tech for a customer recently. 59gr of H1000 with a 140 hybrid = 3127fps. Though that barrel is new.

The original rifle this thread was started on is now broke in and has sped up as anticipated. It has around 350rnds on it now and 59gr of H1000 in that rifle with 140 hybrids is now producing 3138fps. I would expect the 30" barrel to speed up in a similar fashion after it's broke in. It's been my experience across dozens of benchmark barrels that they speed up around 100fps.

Greg, that's only 146.35 FPS faster than my 36 inch barreled 6.5 creedmoor thats been modded with a shortened neck to increase volume and blown-out shoulder and small primer brass. I just don't see the draw of the PRC...

 

[nick338]

Since that's all handled, back to the data.

We did a 30" barrel in a Desert Tech for a customer recently. 59gr of H1000 with a 140 hybrid = 3127fps. Though that barrel is new.

The original rifle this thread was started on is now broke in and has sped up as anticipated. It has around 350rnds on it now and 59gr of H1000 in that rifle with 140 hybrids is now producing 3138fps. I would expect the 30" barrel to speed up in a similar fashion after it's broke in. It's been my experience across dozens of benchmark barrels that they speed up around 100fps.

Greg, have you guys tested anything heavier than the 140's yet.

 

[nick338]

So this is running about 300-350 fps faster than your average Creedmoor load with 140's. Seems foolish to run this in a short action for such minimal gain, lol

 

[orkan]

LOL... you guys crack me up.

No I haven't run anything heavier than 140's. Once I get my hands on the 150SMK's and 155 bergers I intend to wring both out. ... but that's likely a project for next year. For the moment, 130's and 140's are hot medicine in these PRC's.

 

[Graywolf.260]

Getting closer to SAUM 4S, in agreement with George's data, that's good. What about those 130s?

 

[lte82]

So this is running about 300-350 fps faster than your average Creedmoor load with 140's. Seems foolish to run this in a short action for such minimal gain, lol

407 fps faster than I'm shooting the 147s in my creedmoor if they will go 3127. I'm just hoping for 3050 is a 26" tube with mine. Just waiting on the reamer...

 

[nick338]

407 fps faster than I'm shooting the 147s in my creedmoor if they will go 3127. I'm just hoping for 3050 is a 26" tube with mine. Just waiting on the reamer...

I found out about this several days after I received my 6.5x47 from APA which they did a fabulous job on. Kept trying to talk myself out of it but it just wouldn't go away after seeing the potential. Looking forward to a barrel but 6 months seems like forever.

 

[cudby]

LOL... you guys crack me up.

No I haven't run anything heavier than 140's. Once I get my hands on the 150SMK's and 155 bergers I intend to wring both out. ... but that's likely a project for next year. For the moment, 130's and 140's are hot medicine in these PRC's.

What Bergers 155 are you talking about?

 

[orkan]

What Bergers 155 are you talking about?

The 155 berger is launching soon.

 

[Rockfish Dave]

You don't even know what YOU wrote!?!??!?! No, I'm not retarded... but clearly you are. Your last post was full of name calling, just up the page. Whiny crying post full of name calling and nothing else. You are either intentionally trolling, or off your meds.

Someone who is mentally slow, claiming others are mentally slow.
Someone with a fragile ego, claiming others have fragile ego's.
Someone that's retarded, claiming others are retarded.
A nutless wonder, claiming others are nutless wonders.

I'd not waste one more second on your ass. You're dismissed.

LOL

I just returned from camping otherwise I would have responded sooner. My references were comparing my 26" 1:8 twist barrel chambered in your cartidge, to mine. I see that you will not be trying to run anything heavier in your "customers" rifle. I can guess that you figured out the throat was cut too long to allow those to feed from the magazine. I say "Customer" because I have trouble believing anyone would be good with the seller running 350 rounds down the barrel, but to each thier own.

Mistatements of facts (some would call that a lie or slander) to make yourself seem "right" is easily seen through.

If this is your thing (6.5 PRC) more power to you, but there are other opions out there if you handload.

 

[orkan]

I say "Customer" because I have trouble believing anyone would be good with the seller running 350 rounds down the barrel, but to each thier own.

Where did I say that "I" put those rounds through it? Be that as it may, I routinely do that for customers. Our customers know full well the lengths I'm willing to go to for them. ... so keep talking out your ass if you wish.

 

[sandwarrior]

Orkan,

On the Berger 155's will a 1-8" twist stabilize them? Or, should we look at a 1-7~something barrel for these

 

[nick338]

Where did I say that "I" put those rounds through it? Be that as it may, I routinely do that for customers. Our customers know full well the lengths I'm willing to go to for them. ... so keep talking out your ass if you wish.

Actually yes, keep talking out your ass but please do it elsewhere. I pointed out earlier on that this cartridge would be an increase of 250 fps over yours and you plainly stated that as being incorrect. Well I guess you were right after all. So similar pressure levels and a 26" 1-8 barrel it's only 238 fps. Now go pat yourself on the back and find another thread to shit on so we can get back to talking about something relevant.

 

[nick338]

Orkan,

On the Berger 155's will a 1-8" twist stabilize them? Or, should we look at a 1-7~something barrel for these

I have ordered a 1-7 barrel just to be on the safe side but a guy testing them on Long Range Only has them running 2760 out of a 6.5 Creed 24" 1-8 but his elevation is 4000 ft.

 

[steve123]

Orkan,

On the Berger 155's will a 1-8" twist stabilize them? Or, should we look at a 1-7~something barrel for these

Most of the reason you'll want the 7 over the 8 is to get the optimum BC.

 

[orkan]

Orkan,

On the Berger 155's will a 1-8" twist stabilize them? Or, should we look at a 1-7~something barrel for these

I don't have any of them to test... but I'm betting the PRC has the boiler room to make them work. I don't even know what they are recommending for them. All I know for sure is that they are not quite done tweaking the design. In other words I'm not worried about them working in an 8 twist PRC.

 

[sandwarrior]

Thank you guys for the input. This is finally taking the 6.5's to the extreme ballistic end of things.

It would be interesting to see where exactly the 155 would go radically unstable from a 1-8" twist. IF it would eventually go radically unstable.

 

[cudby]

Maybe I should have asked this earlier, but what is a 6.5 SLR Improved? I have never heard of this cartridge prior and are relatively new to the 6.5 world (been mostly shooting .308 WIN and 338LM).

Please post some pictures and dimensions and if you have the possibility, compare it against the 6,5 PRC.

 

[orkan]

http://bfy.tw/F1gW

 

[cudby]

Nice...

“The 6.5 Super LR has sufficient case capacity to permit the 139-142 gr. 6.5mm bullets to be easily shot (with the right selection of powders) up in the 2900 fps range without being “over the top” in terms of maximum pressures.”

So the 6.5 PRC should be more powerful in terms of case capacity.

 

[orkan]

So the 6.5 PRC should be more powerful in terms of case capacity.

... and it is.

 

[cudby]

Anybody has any news on any 6.5PRC ACTIVITY?

 

[JeffLebowski]

I like Orkan’s input. I think the technical areas of this forum should be limited to tech stuff.

 

[The King]

A 6.5-284 is pretty much in this FPS with 140's, so I would say it's not the extreme ballistic end of things, just close to the end of the game for many purposes. Barrel life will tell, and if the longer than 140gr bullets are practical.

For me, the 6.5 creedmoor was made by Hornady in their cheap ammo offerings and constant pressure against the status quo. The new 6.5 PRC might end up being a good place to use a Tikka action too.

Thank you guys for the input. This is finally taking the 6.5's to the extreme ballistic end of things.

It would be interesting to see where exactly the 155 would go radically unstable from a 1-8" twist. IF it would eventually go radically unstable.

 

[cudby]

I just got 300 pz Brass of the 6.5 PRC. Looks great.