6.5x284 vs 6.5 SAUM

[excaliber]

We all want faster cartridges but at what point is barrel life a concern? The 6.5x284 is one of the most accurate cartridges of all time. It has roughly 1000rd barrel life, that is 1/2 moa life. Once accuracy gets worse than that, it`s time for me to change barrel. Since the 6.5 SAUM uses more powder, I assume barrel life will be around roughly 800rds at 1/2moa. I know that some barrels last longer than others but you get the idea. If barrel life isn`t a concern, then why not just neck down the 338 Norma and be done with it? With todays high BC 7mm bullets, 180gr & (195gr hopefully soon) from Berger, why even use the 6.5? Seems like people want the newest cartridge (wildcat) but in reality is it going to beat what is already out there?

 

[XTREM HTR16]

6.5 SAUM barrel will go over 3,000 rounds.

 

[excaliber]

I doubt it. Not 3000rds of 1/2 moa.

 

[long range newbie]

6.5 saum has said to had 2500+ barrel life compared to the 1000+ of the 6.5x284. Ones a long action ones short, all I know is that the 6.5 saum shoots 130s 3300 fps. (I got a 260 rem)

 

[excaliber]

With the SAUM holding more powder than the 6.5x284, no way.

 

[long range newbie]

look on GA precisions website on the xtreme hunter it says 2500+ barrel life.. I've never heard GA precision lie to their customers.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Suggest you talk to George Gardner and Pat Sinclair.

 

[long range newbie]

Agreed, if you want more customers why lie when you can tell the truth and get even more

 

[Skyking]

Read the Gap 6.5 saum extreme hunter.http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...s/185807-new-gap-extreme-hunter-6-5-saum.html

All you question will be answered. It has all be proven. This is from Gerorge.

I was too at first, after seeing a lot of 6.5x284's go south at 900 and a couple 6.5 WSM's go south at 500-600 I started thinking. Powder Burning does not cause the heat that destroys barrels its the Pressure. The Pressure causes the extreme heat that's necessary to burn and heatcheck the barrel. Kinda like how they make carbon turn to diamond's Pressure.

Anyway the 6.5 Saum case is near perfect because it allows you to throw a 6.5 140gr at 3100 at about 53,000 PSI with H1000. Other cases have too much capacity or not enough. The Saum case was picked not because its magical , because it is the perfect fit. In a perfect world I would take the the RCM case and shorten it a tad and give it a longer neck. That would truly be perfect!!!!


At any rate the 6.5 Saum is working as we thought it would. Here is a thought to those that are still having problems understanding it. Shoot next to a 6mm REM, 243 ETC, any caliber that has a 63,000-68,000 PSI SAMI pressure. as soon as the rifle is fired eject the case into you hands. Those of you that have had a 223 brass land on you or go down your shirt know what will happen, it will burn the crap out of you. The 6.5 Saum with the load im talking about with come out only very warm and you can grasp it tightly with your hand without getting burned. Keeping chamber pressures low not only keeps your barrel from puking early its also easy on your rifle and the components , IE Brass lasts a long time!!

Yes if you hot rod this caliber IE a load of 60.5 grains 4831 SC and the 130VLD at 3400fps you will be pushing 68,000 PSI and toast the barrel in 600-800 rounds.

But the same goes to the guys trying to take the 260 Rem and shoot the 140's at 3000 they are at or near 68,000 PSI and will also toast their barrels early.


Just some Afternoon Info.

 

[long range newbie]

what post is this on? now I need a 6.5 saum... it's just an amazing caliber, I'm one of those guys running their 260's at 3000 I probably get around 2900-2950 with 140gr bergers out of my 28in bbl.

 

[excaliber]

If you load any cartridge to low pressure, no doubt barrel life will be better. But, it still doesn`t beat the 7mm SAUM. So why even go with 6.5`s? Also, why build a cartridge that only H-1000 is the only suitable powder for barrel life?

 

[Skyking]

what post is this on? now I need a 6.5 saum... it's just an amazing caliber, I'm one of those guys running their 260's at 3000 I probably get around 2900-2950 with 140gr bergers out of my 28in bbl.

The good stuff starts on page two. Post 72. That was off page 5 post 225

 

[long range newbie]

I meant to say thread too. Which thread too?

 

[Skyking]

I Have shot a 7mm WSM for as long as the cartridge has been out, in a 24" barrel you wont get but 2850 FPS with the 7mm SAUM the recoil is much greater. And you run into OAL problem with these bullets in the SAUM Case in a Short action.


There are many that can blow this cartridge/rifle away in a longer action and a longer barrel or shooting single shot in a short action, but none will compare within the guidelines of this project.


24" barrel
9 pounds or under with scope and sling and mag
short action
low recoil
keep at 58,000 PSI or less
at or under 6 mils to 1000
1000 ft lbs energy left at 1000 Yards

Its all about end goals

 

[tui_man]

If barrel life isn`t a concern, then why not just neck down the 338 Norma and be done with it? With todays high BC 7mm bullets, 180gr & (195gr hopefully soon) from Berger, why even use the 6.5?

Like this?
Left to right
7mm Screamer, 6.5 SAUM, 7mm Gonzo an 7mm Remington Magnum

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk 2

 

[SFree]

Anecdotal, yes, but my experience with the 6.5-284 was not a good one. Fickle, finicky, and short lived barrel life. My 6.5 Creedmore is a better performer, over all. The saum is the Creed on steroids WITH good barrel life and less recoil than the 7 saum/wsm, which I've owned as well.

 

[psinclair]

The first 50 6.5 SAUM cases I prepped are still in use right now.....they've been loaded 13 times and fired 12. Primer pockets are still good. I've shot both 140gr bullets(3050fps), and 130gr bullets(3250fps). My barrel has 1157 rounds through it and still shooting great.

I'm fine with being "stuck" with H1000 for these kind of results.....

 

[jbailey]

If you load any cartridge to low pressure, no doubt barrel life will be better. But, it still doesn`t beat the 7mm SAUM. So why even go with 6.5`s? Also, why build a cartridge that only H-1000 is the only suitable powder for barrel life?

The 7mm SAUM loaded right is a beast of a cartridge

Anyway, I don't think you are stuck to one powder... I'm getting great results with Retumbo in my short action 7 SAUM. I bet Retumbo would show great results in the 6.5mm SAUM as well, especially if your barrel is on the longer side. Super gentle recoil impulse w/ Retumbo and it added 50fps over H-1000.

Retumbo's heat of explosion is a tad higher than H-1000, but only by about 2% or so. The lower pressure might balance out the higher temp and barrel life would be similar.

Just a thought for guys looking for other powder choice.

 

[KYS]

The 7mm SAUM loaded right is a beast of a cartridge

Anyway, I don't think you are stuck to one powder... I'm getting great results with Retumbo in my short action 7 SAUM. I bet Retumbo would show great results in the 6.5mm SAUM as well, especially if your barrel is on the longer side. Super gentle recoil impulse w/ Retumbo and it added 50fps over H-1000.

Retumbo's heat of explosion is a tad higher than H-1000, but only by about 2% or so. The lower pressure might balance out the higher temp and barrel life would be similar.

Just a thought for guys looking for other powder choice.

Retumbo performed poorly. It's just a bit to fast burning. I would advise sticking with H-1000.

 

[KYS]

I doubt it. Not 3000rds of 1/2 moa.

Better tell that to George Gardner who won the Cup with his rifle that had OVER 3k on it......

With the SAUM holding more powder than the 6.5x284, no way.

WRONG!

George has answered all of this. Some of us are approaching 3k and doing a set back extending the life to around 3500-4k depending on your load.

If you load any cartridge to low pressure, no doubt barrel life will be better. But, it still doesn`t beat the 7mm SAUM. So why even go with 6.5`s? Also, why build a cartridge that only H-1000 is the only suitable powder for barrel life?

Did you even bother to read the other 10 page thread on this cartridge? It was DESIGNED to run at a low pressure to maximize its barrel life, but when you are running a mild load at 3100 fps.... that is very impressive.
How exactly does the 7mm SAUM outperform the 6.5 SAUM? I would love to hear your explanation on it.

 

[long range newbie]

its not only h1000 its just, h1000 is the ideal powder for this cartridge, and don't doubt a cartridge without reading about its barrel life and performance.

 

[omurnion]

The first 50 6.5 SAUM cases I prepped are still in use right now.....they've been loaded 13 times and fired 12. Primer pockets are still good. I've shot both 140gr bullets(3050fps), and 130gr bullets(3250fps). My barrel has 1157 rounds through it and still shooting great.

I'm fine with being "stuck" with H1000 for these kind of results.....

That's impressive by any standards. I've shot that rifle and it's a hammer too. Also that is with ordinary Remington brass. The results of this cartridge speak for itself, it's just one of those things that works really good.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

We all want faster cartridges but at what point is barrel life a concern? The 6.5x284 is one of the most accurate cartridges of all time. It has roughly 1000rd barrel life, that is 1/2 moa life. Once accuracy gets worse than that, it`s time for me to change barrel. Since the 6.5 SAUM uses more powder, I assume barrel life will be around roughly 800rds at 1/2moa. I know that some barrels last longer than others but you get the idea. If barrel life isn`t a concern, then why not just neck down the 338 Norma and be done with it? With todays high BC 7mm bullets, 180gr & (195gr hopefully soon) from Berger, why even use the 6.5? Seems like people want the newest cartridge (wildcat) but in reality is it going to beat what is already out there?

6.5x284 to get 2950 out of the 140 is running in the 68,000 PSI range


6.5 SAUM is getting 3100 with the same bullet at 55,000 PSI


There is your difference.


Yes you can Hot Rod it and wear it out fast, thats not the point of the caliber. The whole premise of this was 4 things

1. to Humanly kill shit to 1200 yards.

2. barrel life of 2500

3. low recoil

4. serious accuracy


It does all 4 better than anything else. There are cartridges that do one or 2 better but not all 4.

 

[Fongman]

Well that pretty much sums it up...!

 

[KYS]

6.5x284 to get 2950 out of the 140 is running in the 68,000 PSI range


6.5 SAUM is getting 3100 with the same bullet at 55,000 PSI


There is your difference.


Yes you can Hot Rod it and wear it out fast, thats not the point of the caliber. The whole premise of this was 4 things

1. to Humanly kill shit to 1200 yards.

2. barrel life of 2500

3. low recoil

4. serious accuracy


It does all 4 better than anything else. There are cartridges that do one or 2 better but not all 4.

EXACTLY what I was coming here to type! Right on George!

 

[AMF]

Any idea how long it will be before someone is producing 6.5 SAUM brass? 7mm SAUM brass seems to be out of stock everywhere.

 

[A10XRIFLE]

Working on it, 2014 mid year at the earliest

 

[KYS]

Remington is making a run of brass this month. We should see it near the first weeks of November. Hopefully George can secure a brass maker at SHOT Show to produce this for his customers.
I know I would like to get a large batch and store it for future loading.

 

[Supergyro]

If the brass issue can be addressed I think this would make an excellent lr hunting round for me personally. Enough energy on target for my size game, and a good bullet selection to boot.

 

[8nbait]

1. to Humanly kill shit to 1200 yards.


This is my favorite part of the explanation, and well stated to boot.

 

[Sendero_Man]

Suggest you talk to George Gardner and Pat Sinclair.

I must be chopped liver GRIN !!!

Just hackin' on ya Marty !

 

[coldboremiracle]

I must be chopped liver

I was gonna say coyote bait

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I must be chopped liver GRIN !!!

Just hackin' on ya Marty !

Well if you'd not be working all the time maybe I could shoot one! grin