6.5x47 vs 6x47 WTF?

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

When from a good time with 6.5, Varget, and 140 ELDM’s to 6, H4350, 108 ELDM pain in the butt!

Am I the only one?

Any help is appreciated. I feel like I dumped my steady thick love for a prom queen!

 

[AIAW]

Ummm... What seems to be the problem in particular?

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

Just load developing seems a bit finicky. My sd’s are 18 and my groups are bigger tha I want.

 

[DIBBS]

@mm509

I am shooting 105 RDF's/450/ 41 grains of H4350 w/.035 jump in my 6x47 Lapua , i believe Matt is shooting 108's so perhaps he can give you some assistance.

 

[Supersubes]

Reading between the lines a bit online you’ll discover that 6x47L is not the sweetie that the parent cartridge is. Some people have great luck with them, and they even had a huge following in PRS. I will never have one again. If I need modest 6mm I’d do an XC, and if that’s too big i’ll skip down to a 6 Grendel. Ive has great results with both of those.

 

[smrkovsky]

I'm no expert but if I recall, the majority of the issues people have stem from the reamer design. What reamer spec did you use?

 

[Sig Marine]

I've got both, both shoot very well and load workup was easy. I'm running Berger140 Hybrids over H4350 (2800 fps) in the 6.5x47L and in the 6x47L version, I'm running Berger 105 Hybrids over Varget (3060 fps).

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

@mm509

I am shooting 105 RDF's/450/ 41 grains of H4350 w/.035 jump in my 6x47 Lapua , i believe Matt is shooting 108's so perhaps he can give you some assistance.

That’s good to know. I jump .015 and a shooting partner that they like to jump .030 to .035. The H4350 seems to be not as consistent as Varget, and I am anal about weight. .02

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

I've got both, both shoot very well and load workup was easy. I'm running Berger140 Hybrids over H4350 (2800 fps) in the 6.5x47L and in the 6x47L version, I'm running Berger 105 Hybrids over Varget (3060 fps).

Wow, that’s the opposite of mine. What are you running in the 6? I’ve got a 26” and have some 105’s.

Thanks!
jh

 

[Milo 2.5]

Wow, that’s the opposite of mine. What are you running in the 6? I’ve got a 26” and have some 105’s.

Thanks!
jh

I think you should just keep trying to find a suitable node. Being I am not familiar with your bullet choice, I have no clue on a good speed range. I run a 110 SMK @ 2985 with 38gr of RL 16 and it is a hammer., 26" barrel.
Now I am not preaching, but unlike other larger 6mm's, the 47 case in either 6.5 or 6mm has limited case capacity, so necking down to 6mm and going to slower powders doesn't yield gains like say the 6mm creed.
Maybe if you give us your expectations someone can better steer you in the right direction.

 

[mm509]

I'm no expert but if I recall, the majority of the issues people have stem from the reamer design.

^^^This is a fact. I saw the actual reamer in question part number a week or two ago.

Dibbs and I are lucky to be shooting the R Bros 6x47, which earned the nickname "6 WTF" because of the lack of finickiness with Travis's reamer right out of the gate. I have ran 105's, 108's, 112's, 115's, and 109's from 2850 fps to 3150 fps and from .020"-.030" jumps. I regularly see single digit ES numbers and 1/4"-3/8" groups regularly. With the R Bros reamer in 6x47 we see BR/BR Variant levels of consistency and accuracy, and while running 3030 fps for the last 2 years, I would see accuracy and velocity go to 2100 rounds (I pulled them then).

With that being said, the 6.5x47 is the dasher of the 6.5 calibers. If we weren't getting the performance from the 6x47, I would definitely have a 6.5x47 in my stable.

 

[smrkovsky]

The 'smith that did my 6x47 barrels used a .2735 neck and a .110 FB. I've used the same load of 39.5gr of H4350 and a 105 Hybrid since day one. I started at 20thou off the lands and honestly haven't changed it. Didn't see the need to chase the lands and still see good velocity (3045fps) after 1200ish rounds. Pulled the 1st barrel at 1700ish rounds and it was still running at 3025fps.

 

[LawnMM]

Run Berger's 105/109s at 2950 with 450s and H4350 and you'll have an excellent rifle.

If you try to run it at 6 Creedmoor velocities it won't be worth it.

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

I think you should just keep trying to find a suitable node. Being I am not familiar with your bullet choice, I have no clue on a good speed range. I run a 110 SMK @ 2985 with 38gr of RL 16 and it is a hammer., 26" barrel.
Now I am not preaching, but unlike other larger 6mm's, the 47 case in either 6.5 or 6mm has limited case capacity, so necking down to 6mm and going to slower powders doesn't yield gains like say the 6mm creed.
Maybe if you give us your expectations someone can better steer you in the right direction.

Thanks, I think I’m trying to get too much speed out of the 47 case. I’ll try to find good node around 2950 to 3000. That was my best group.

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

^^^This is a fact. I saw the actual reamer in question part number a week or two ago.

Dibbs and I are lucky to be shooting the R Bros 6x47, which earned the nickname "6 WTF" because of the lack of finickiness with Travis's reamer right out of the gate. I have ran 105's, 108's, 112's, 115's, and 109's from 2850 fps to 3150 fps and from .020"-.030" jumps. I regularly see single digit ES numbers and 1/4"-3/8" groups regularly. With the R Bros reamer in 6x47 we see BR/BR Variant levels of consistency and accuracy, and while running 3030 fps for the last 2 years, I would see accuracy and velocity go to 2100 rounds (I pulled them then).

With that being said, the 6.5x47 is the dasher of the 6.5 calibers. If we weren't getting the performance from the 6x47, I would definitely have a 6.5x47 in my stable.

I don’t know who teamed my off hand but the guy I bought the barrel from did send me the info. I’ll try to find it, thanks.

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

Eric Cortina is on the drawing as designer.

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

Run Berger's 105/109s at 2950 with 450s and H4350 and you'll have an excellent rifle.

If you try to run it at 6 Creedmoor velocities it won't be worth it.

Thank you for that, I’m over thinking this.

 

[cooper_257]

Most of the standard 6x47 reamers are to tight in the neck causing consistency issues unless your neck turn the brass.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Most of the standard 6x47 reamers are to tight in the neck causing consistency issues unless your neck turn the brass.

If his is Erik’s reamer, it should be a .275 neck.

I just got one spun up with that reamer. Will be running varget and possibly VV n150.

 

[Dstoenner]

My 105 hybrid load that shoots .5 to .6 moa in f-class position is 39.0 h4350 with 450 primers. My velocity is 2990. My first barrel is a 1:7 mcgowen remage with .104 freebore. My second barrel is 1:7 criterion remage with .110 freebore. Shots the same 105 load just the same. I can’t complain. Once i got the barrel broken in and my cases 1x fired i had load development done in less than 100 bullets fired. I am chasing the lands by .020.

For what it’s wirth

David

 

[steve123]

IMO, 6X47 freebores are on the short side. My reamer is perhaps a bit too long because it was made for 115's but I got speed without excessive pressure. And great accuracy with any heavy bullet I tried.

OP, you've fired the brass at least once before starting load work, right?

 

[Dthomas3523]

IMO, 6X47 freebores are on the short side. My reamer is perhaps a bit too long because it was made for 115's but I got speed without excessive pressure. And great accuracy with any heavy bullet I tried.

OP, you've fired the brass at least once before starting load work, right?

Cortina’s *should* be .150 I believe.

 

[jbailey]

105gr B Hybrid here in a PVA 6x47.
39.0gr H4350 lit by a CCI BR4 primer.
This is the one and only load I have ever shot in this rifle and its a bug-holer with SDs in 10 range. 3050fps ish MV.

Sorry to hear you have had such a trouble with the cartridge. Hopefully you get straightened out.

 

[DIBBS]

We have discussed reamer design and freebore. To the original poster what has been your load development process? As @mm509 stated (and he has gone through a lot more barrels than me) we have not found the cartridge difficult to load for with a number of different combinations of powder and bullets. I originally used Varget and am now using H4350.

I have had excellent results with Berger 105's (VLD), 105 Amaxes, 107 Sierra's, and Nosler 105 CC's and 105RDF's. How many rounds down the barrel, what was your break-in process? Hopefully 100-150 rounds down the tube by now so things have settled down?

Was the rebarrel work done by a reputable gunsmith?

 

[samb300]

Anyone know what the reamer specs are on the R Bros 6x47L "WTF" ?

 

[hengehold]

When from a good time with 6.5, Varget, and 140 ELDM’s to 6, H4350, 108 ELDM pain in the butt!

Am I the only one?

Any help is appreciated. I feel like I dumped my steady thick love for a prom queen!

the 6x47L isREALLY close to being a 6XC so I think there should be potential there for it to have inherent accuracy.

PS. Prom queens are usually higher maintenance.

 

[mm509]

Anyone know what the reamer specs are on the R Bros 6x47L "WTF" ?

I know its proprietary.

 

[samb300]

I know its proprietary.

Understood. Measurements of a fired case neck diameter, and BTO or OAL measurements of a loaded round touching the lands would help if you have those available.

It's more curiosity than anything, I'm not looking to steal their IP. I've been reading up on 6x47L a lot lately, and there are as many "it's finnicky" threads as there are "it hammers" threads, so I'm trying to figure out what the truth is. From what I can gather, a 0.272" or less neck is bad, and 0.274"+ neck is good. Beyond that I'm not sure.

I read a very early thread discussing 6XC vs 6x47L, and it was determined one could make a 6x47L barrel and dies by simply machining 0.049" off the base of a 6XC barrel or sizing die. So if the 6x47L is really a 0.049" chopped 6XC, I don't understand why it would throw fits or be hard to stay in tune when the 6XC is so highly regarded.

 

[jaybic]

I am on barrels 6 and 7 and every one of them after break in would run a 105 VLD or Hybrid over H4350 at speeds around 3000fps and produce sub half MOA fairly easily. Now, that said, I also seemed to have trouble with them being a bit erratic at times....the first 2 had .272 necks and the next several had .273 necks and it wasnt until after all this that I found out that they can be a little kooky because of the necks being undersized. I took a loaded round to my smith and he measure it at .2715 in a .273 neck and said, yep, thats tight. We ordered a .275 reamer based on some excellent feedback from a fella named Erik(sp?) Cortina and a couple other fellas on the 6x47 shooters FB page and am currently waiting on the reamer. The bottom line for me is that if this larger neck will settle the round down for the long haul(consistancy wise) it is a spectacular caliber, feeds well and I have run anywhere from 38.7 grains in one rifle up to 39.7 in another and almost any of my 47s will shoot any load out of my other ones extremely well. almost interchangeably.

 

[Supersubes]

Saami 6mm creedmoor throated for your bullet and call it a day. Easy button. If you want to use the 47 lapua case, leave a 6.5.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I am on barrels 6 and 7 and every one of them after break in would run a 105 VLD or Hybrid over H4350 at speeds around 3000fps and produce sub half MOA fairly easily. Now, that said, I also seemed to have trouble with them being a bit erratic at times....the first 2 had .272 necks and the next several had .273 necks and it wasnt until after all this that I found out that they can be a little kooky because of the necks being undersized. I took a loaded round to my smith and he measure it at .2715 in a .273 neck and said, yep, thats tight. We ordered a .275 reamer based on some excellent feedback from a fella named Erik(sp?) Cortina and a couple other fellas on the 6x47 shooters FB page and am currently waiting on the reamer. The bottom line for me is that if this larger neck will settle the round down for the long haul(consistancy wise) it is a spectacular caliber, feeds well and I have run anywhere from 38.7 grains in one rifle up to 39.7 in another and almost any of my 47s will shoot any load out of my other ones extremely well. almost interchangeably.

Did you make sure the body retains the same dimensions as the 6.5x47? A lot of reamers (no idea why) decrease the size of the body.

Even Redding seems to be using a smaller body for their 6x47 die. I use Erik’s reamer which keeps the 6.5 body and a .275 neck. In the pic, left is a Redding 6.5 die and right is a Redding 6 die. Brass is fired out of the same chamber:

 

[jaybic]

To be honest, I did not do that as I had never even heard of the "leave the body a 6.5" thing until very recently. Now I am a bit concerned about that but the reamer was ordered in late January so its probably too late is my guess....

 

[smrkovsky]

Did you make sure the body retains the same dimensions as the 6.5x47? A lot of reamers (no idea why) decrease the size of the body.

Even Redding seems to be using a smaller body for their 6x47 die. I use Erik’s reamer which keeps the 6.5 body and a .275 neck. In the pic, left is a Redding 6.5 die and right is a Redding 6 die. Brass is fired out of the same chamber:

View attachment 7289157

What size bushing do you use in the 6.5 die?

 

[DIBBS]

What size bushing do you use in the 6.5 die?

Personally I try for .002-.003 neck tension, and the neck bushing would vary based on specific components used. However if the loaded round at the neck measures, for example, .290, I would probably start with a .287 bushing allowing for a little springback on the brass. Others may use less neck tension.

Also, how easily the bullet seats, and the results downrange also factor in to the final decision.

 

[Campguy308]

Saami 6mm creedmoor throated for your bullet and call it a day. Easy button. If you want to use the 47 lapua case, leave a 6.5.

I have noticed that most, if not all, standard x47 reamer are too tight in the neck. CIP 6.5x47 is .292, standard 6.5 Creedmoor is .296 I believe. I've heard the 6mm flavor of x47 is same situation with a lot of reamers.

Friend of mine had a 6x47 that wouldn't shoot for shit until he neck turned. If you can't slide a bullet into a fired case neck, it's too tight.

Moral of the story (for me), shoot the damn 6 or 6.5 Creed and be done.

 

[Dthomas3523]

What size bushing do you use in the 6.5 die?

For sizing down, a .271 and .268 in steps (have a Forster 6x47 non bushing I’m going to try going forward).

I turn the necks back to .013 and using a mandrel to set tension. So I use a .265 or .266 bushing and a .242 mandrel.

Without a mandrel, I’d probably use a .266.

Depends what you neck thickness is after sizing down.

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

105gr B Hybrid here in a PVA 6x47.
39.0gr H4350 lit by a CCI BR4 primer.
This is the one and only load I have ever shot in this rifle and its a bug-holer with SDs in 10 range. 3050fps ish MV.

Sorry to hear you have had such a trouble with the cartridge. Hopefully you get straightened out.

Went to 105 Berger and 39.5 H4350, seems to like them. Maybe I should just calm down and enjoy load developing. ?

 

[PWOCengineer70]

Does anyone know of a smith that has Cortinas 6x47 reamer that could spin me an impact prefit? Or know where I can rent one? I want to make sure I get the body dimensions the same as the 6.5x47

 

[smrkovsky]

Does anyone know of a smith that has Cortinas 6x47 reamer that could spin me an impact prefit? Or know where I can rent one? I want to make sure I get the body dimensions the same as the 6.5x47

Red Beard Gunworks in Portland, TX

 

[lte82]

Does anyone know of a smith that has Cortinas 6x47 reamer that could spin me an impact prefit? Or know where I can rent one? I want to make sure I get the body dimensions the same as the 6.5x47

Mine is really similar to Erik’s reamer. Works great with 105-115s, lapua brass or native Peterson brass. Just another option for you.

 

[918v]

That’s good to know. I jump .015 and a shooting partner that they like to jump .030 to .035. The H4350 seems to be not as consistent as Varget, and I am anal about weight. .02

Did you do a velocity ladder test? Did you adjust the coal afterwards? Or are you trying to make the load like the .015” jump number?

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

Did you do a velocity ladder test? Did you adjust the coal afterwards? Or are you trying to make the load like the .015” jump number?

No, I found the speed I want and then messed with seating depth and quit worrying about the jump. It is about .035 to the lands, but that is just where I found the best node for groups at 300.

 

[918v]

By arbitrarily picking a speed you ended up with high SD. Why not do a velocity ladder and find accuracy within a velocity range that produces a low SD?

 

[BenjaminMartin6.5]

I can certainly do that to tune it a bit. I am at 3000fps and my groups are good. When I get some time, and primers, I will do some more testing. Thanks.

 

[918v]

If the node you find is too slow, switch to different brass. A heavier case will shift the velocity node upward. A lighter case will shift a node downward if pressure is too high at that charge weight.